Animal weights - what now?

just do it

Posted this elsewhere and got no replies so here goes again.

Spring calves are on average 6.5months old at the minute and have started on nuts ~3wks ago with a view to weaning. ADG for heifers is 1.00kg and ADG for bulls is 1.14kg. Heifers on average weigh 240kg (range 190-300kg) and bulls are at 275kg (210-345). Are these good?

So folks, what should my strategy be now? What target weight for selling? When over the next few months is best to sell them? They're continental X's by the way and I'm only selling the bulks as I'm holding the heifers as replacements.

LivInt20

just do it wrote: »

Posted this elsewhere and got no replies so here goes again.

Spring calves are on average 6.5months old at the minute and have started on nuts ~3wks ago with a view to weaning. ADG for heifers is 1.00kg and ADG for bulls is 1.14kg. Heifers on average weigh 240kg (range 190-300kg) and bulls are at 275kg (210-345). Are these good?

So folks, what should my strategy be now? What target weight for selling? When over the next few months is best to sell them? They're continental X's by the way and I'm only selling the bulks as I'm holding the heifers as replacements.

Not too bad.

Target for Bulls is 1.30 kgs ADG
Target for heifers is 1.10 kgs ADG.

Wean Bulls at 300kgs and put on good grass and meal/nuts. Nothing to be gained leaving on cows over this weight.

Personally I try and get bulls to 450 kgs as early as possible and then sell.
Wean heifers at 280 kgs.

Lastin

What breed are they and no meals I presume

just do it

Lastin wrote: »

What breed are they and no meals I presume

A mix of CH, SI, LM and three of the heifers are SH out of springers. Taking those out of the equation the rest of the heifers have probably averaged a ADG of 1.04.

The cows didn't get out of the shed until ~20th of May so calves were getting creep as well as access to a paddock from ~10 weeks of age. Older cows coped and milked ok but the 2yo springers in particular found it hard going. In future I'll separate them for a bit of extra meal. They didn't come in heat either so I'd a poor conception rate this Spring.

just do it

Thanks for target weaning weights LivInt20. For the bulls I'm thinking of moving them onto 2kg meal post weaning and good grass. With that I'd hope to get another 8-10 weeks good thrive bringing up the average ADG to 1.3kg. Is that a fair enough expectation?

ellewood

Have a lock of avg 5 month old calves about 220-230 kgs there getting milk, 1kg meal/head and the best of grass at the moment
Will wean in the next 3-5 weeks when there eating 2kgs/head and separate bulls and heifers
On good grass what level of meal should both be getting??
Hoping to get 1.1 to 1.2 on the heifers and 1.3/day on the bulls and sell in about 4 months - early December

Whats the max meal they should get per head before it becomes uneconomical if they have good grass as well??

49801

LivInt20 wrote: »

Nothing to be gained leaving on cows over this weight.

How you figure that?

towzer2010

ellewood wrote: »

Have a lock of avg 5 month old calves about 220-230 kgs there getting milk, 1kg meal/head and the best of grass at the moment
Will wean in the next 3-5 weeks when there eating 2kgs/head and separate bulls and heifers
On good grass what level of meal should both be getting??
Hoping to get 1.1 to 1.2 on the heifers and 1.3/day on the bulls and sell in about 4 months - early December

Whats the max meal they should get per head before it becomes uneconomical if they have good grass as well??

Hi ellewood.

I saw this in the Farming Independent yesterday. It gives recommendations on meal feeding.
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/quality-counts-when-it-comes-to-shifting-stock-at-the-marts-29493498.html

LivInt20

49801 wrote: »

How you figure that?

They will put on the same weight gain off the cow as on the cow. Possibly more because grass is now making up most of their diet.

Weaned some calves early myself last year. Two bulls same weight, weaned one left other on cow. Both calves performed to the exact same weight at next weighing two months later.

49801

LivInt20 wrote: »

They will put on the same weight gain off the cow as on the cow. Possibly more because grass is now making up most of their diet.

Weaned some calves early myself last year. Two bulls same weight, weaned one left other on cow. Both calves performed to the exact same weight at next weighing two months later.

Still not sure I'd agree with you. Free protein from mother for as long as practical and BCS is ok. Just my opinion

just do it

towzer2010 wrote: »

Hi ellewood.

I saw this in the Farming Independent yesterday. It gives recommendations on meal feeding.
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/quality-counts-when-it-comes-to-shifting-stock-at-the-marts-29493498.html

Excellent article . Here's the practical bit:

Creep feeding
Teagasc expert Karen Dukelow recommends that calves should be started on 0.5kg/day two months before sale. Bulls should be increased to 2kg/day over two weeks and heifers increased to 1.5kg/day.
These amounts assume good quality grass and may need to be increased where grass supply is short or poor quality. Simple, three-way mix ration of 15-16pc protein is sufficient.
Calves should be weaned gradually by removing a small amount of cows from the herd every two or three days to reduce the stress on the calves.
Early weaning means weanlings can get access to top quality grass and meals fed in troughs, while cows are either tightened up in bare paddocks or housed during wet conditions.
Bull calves on good quality grass and 2kg/day have the potential to achieve a weight gain of 1.3-1.4kg/day. Heifer calves on quality grass and 1.5 kg/day have the potential to achieve 1.2-1.35kg/day.

Selling
Before selling weanlings, it is important to know the value of your stock so check out the trade at your local mart. Weanlings should be housed the night before sale on a straw bed and given access to hay. This will help in having weanlings clean and well presented for sale.
Feeding rates
The response to meal depends on the overall feed supply and other factors, including quality and quantity of grass, the cows' milk yield, growth potential of the weanlings, age, breed and sex.
For example, well-muscled, Continental bull weanlings of 6-8 months will give a better response than young heifer weanlings of the traditional breeds. Teagasc research has found that when feed is scarce, expect a response of up to 4:1. For example, 0.25kg liveweight gain for the first 1kg of meal fed. For the second kilo, the response is likely to be 6:1 and so on.
The response declines for each increment of meal fed. This pattern of 'response decline' to increasing meal increments highlights the poor economics of ad lib feeding over a long feeding period.
When grass is of good quality and cows are milking well the response to the first kilo of meal could be as low as 8:1.
It is obvious in this example that it is loss making to feed if milk and grass is plentiful. While you may have paid 35c/kg for the 1kg of meal, the calf might only gain one eighth of a kilo liveweight. At a selling price of €2.70/kg, your return on feeding is only worth 34c at best.
The immediate response to high meal feeding (over 2kg/day) will not be retained where weanlings are kept on the farm of origin and go to grass the following spring.
However, the meal cost can be recovered if weanlings go for sale in the short term.

Dozer1

I'm no expert but I'd advise a quick trip to the mart to see how the various weight brackets are selling.


I try and break it into 3 groups
a) 400KGs and up
b) 300kg to 400kg
c) anything under the 300kg

Personally I try and get mine into the 320-380kg weight bracket when selling, means they haven't been on the farm too long and not consumed too much meal, too much and they lay down fat which isn't a great seller in my book.
I've a mixed bag of cows so the calves they're producing aren't up to some of the guys on here but we can't all be leg wax and reillig.

There are some export buyers looking for the top 10% at the marts but like most of the weanlings I know most of mine are for killing in Ireland so I try and have weanlings healthy and a good frame.

I've 6 going Saturday so will know more then I'd imagine.

just do it

Bearing in mind the general consensus is it costs €600 to keep a suckler cow for a year and 0.9 calves/cow is considered good, each weanling sold on average must make €667 just to break even. Last weeks journal has an average 350kg weanling bull making €696 and 350kg average weanling heifer making €735.

towzer2010

just do it wrote: »

Bearing in mind the general consensus is it costs €600 to keep a suckler cow for a year and 0.9 calves/cow is considered good, each weanling sold on average must make €667 just to break even. Last weeks journal has an average 350kg weanling bull making €696 and 350kg average weanling heifer making €735.

Brother in law was at the mart in Ballymote this evening. He sold two nice LM bulls for €900 each at 350 kg's approx, 2 more fairly good ones made €850 again between 300 and 350 kgs. From the pics I've seen of your stock they would be the same sort of quality. All born late December or early January.

The problem in my view is that some of the weanlings are very average quality. Some men think that any sort of bull will do as long as the cow goes in calf but the quality wont be there so that will always drag down the avg.

I seem to remember you saying you got EFZ straws last year. How did the calves turn out? Did you get any heifer calves out of him? I've used him on a few cows this year in the hope of getting good replacements.

just do it

Towzer
Yeah I hope my weanlings are better than average €/kg. No EFZ calves yet but a few Autumn calves due from mid-Sept. You needn't worry, you'll hear and see all about them :)

just do it

Do you think your BIL sold a bit early? If he'd held them for another 4-6 weeks he could have another 50-70kg LW on them predominantly from cheap grass and €30 meal per head.

towzer2010

just do it wrote: »

Do you think your BIL sold a bit early? If he'd held them for another 4-6 weeks he could have another 50-70kg LW on them predominantly from cheap grass and €30 meal per head.

He did but to say he's a man not blessed with patience is an understatement. If he decided he wants to farm alpacas next week that wouldn't be a surprise

towzer2010

just do it wrote: »

Towzer
Yeah I hope my weanlings are better than average €/kg. No EFZ calves yet but a few Autumn calves due from mid-Sept. You needn't worry, you'll hear and see all about them :)

I'm hoping he's all they say he is. I've two due to the other LM they were suggesting was the next big thing, GWO next month so I'm hoping for heifers. I'm trying to build up numbers because everyone else you read about seems to be leaving suckling.

LivInt20

just do it wrote: »

Bearing in mind the general consensus is it costs €600 to keep a suckler cow for a year and 0.9 calves/cow is considered good, each weanling sold on average must make €667 just to break even. Last weeks journal has an average 350kg weanling bull making €696 and 350kg average weanling heifer making €735.

In my opinion the cost of keeping a suckler cow is more than €600. Probably nearer to €700 +.

Teagasc are also quoting a figure of more than €700 at the moment.

Therefore anyone selling weanlings at €750 is only just breaking even or making a very small profit.

just do it

towzer2010 wrote: »

I'm hoping he's all they say he is. I've two due to the other LM they were suggesting was the next big thing, GWO next month so I'm hoping for heifers. I'm trying to build up numbers because everyone else you read about seems to be leaving suckling.

I look forward to seeing the photos;). Was looking at my records and I've no EFZ due until the Spring. I've 3 nice springers in-calf to HCA this Autumn so I'M looking forward to see how they turn out.

just do it

LivInt20 wrote: »

In my opinion the cost of keeping a suckler cow is more than €600. Probably nearer to €700 +.

Teagasc are also quoting a figure of more than €700 at the moment.

Therefore anyone selling weanlings at €750 is only just breaking even or making a very small profit.

Yeah, I think we should all be trying to achieve an average of €1,000 for weanlings in order to take anything out of it.