Tranny Makeover

cormie

So my beloved 2002 Ford Transit LWB Hi Roof 90 has served me well and is still serving me very well. Has had a few breakdowns and everything you'd expect after being a work van over the years. It's got a few dents, rust spots, scrapes and isn't exactly a universal shade of white after having to get the likes of a new passenger door etc. It's basically starting to show it's age and inside too is a bit worn with air vents popping out etc.

Ideally I'd just like to keep going with it until it dies as I treat it pretty well, keep it serviced, DOE'd, great tires on it and the rest but I've been looking at the new shape Merc Sprinters/VW Crafters lately with a little envy, as they bomb passed me on Motorways with what looks to be a larger loading area too and what I think is a very nicely designed van and looks great for sign writing and presentation too.

So I'm wondering, am I better off just giving the transit a makeover, getting the rust treated, dents popped, scrapes filled and painted/plastidipped/wrapped in vinyl and keep going with it or do I invest in a Sprinter/Crafter and start using this as the main work van? I'd obviously like to keep costs low but if investing will save me money in the long run this is the best option of course.

Would anyone have any idea how much it would be to get the transit looking like new again (I'm thinking at least 2k) and would this be the best option over just getting an upgrade to a nice sprinter (I'm sure I can find something decent on Ebay from the UK?).

Has anyone used all 3 vans and how do they compare to one another? My transit mechanic says the newer Transits aren't the best and that the 2002 era was the best for them and they had the least problems. How are Sprinters/Crafters for used/spurious parts cost wise compared to the Transit and what about fuel consumption too over long distance and city driving?

I'd be looking to get the largest panel van to drive on a B license but my only concern with the size is that if it's over 6m, it's classed as freight on the ferry, and for the sake of only an extra 50cm, can increase the cost by about €200 return for a journey :eek: I've seen sprinters in the Freight queue and Sprinters in the passenger queue so I don't know if they are generally let through as passenger or if they would be stopped at check in and told to go to freight and pay extra.

Also, how do the Sprinter and Crafters compare? I don't know much about them at all so wouldn't be sure what to look for when buying. Would like a nice powerful, high horsepower one but fuel consumption and reliability are a big factor too.

So I need something reliable for work that can take large, heavy loads while light on fuel and can stay as a passenger vehicle on the ferry, b license, easy to find parts for at good value and that looks nice for branding.

Any feedback appreciated

dmc17

Dodgy thread title

R.O.R

What load length do you need, and what's your budget?

aaakev

The Mwb sprinter has 3200mm loading lenght (more than your transit) and the lwb has 4200mm from bulk head to doors (assuming your looking at post 2006 models) they suffered with engines up until 2009, alot have been replaced under warranty so are fine so look out for this. Recon engines are about about
stg£2.5k. By the sounds of it your soing long distance driving going back and forth to te uk so Id recomend a 315 ( 150bhp)

Crafter is a different van all together, its got the same internal dimentions but thats it, it feels cheap compaired to the sprinter, does not drive as well, the 2.5l engine is thirsty and less powerful than the sprinters 2.2 and its not as nice to look at....

Your mechanic is right about the newer transits, they are very soft. Your 2002 would be miles ahead in reliability

cormie

Thanks a lot for the replies. I don't even know what my budget is really, I'd rather go older and cheaper but if they had troubles pre 2009, then that might mean I'm stuck with a 2009 onwards model? Although I think the new shape, which is the one I want, isn't much older than 2009 anyway? I don't badly need it but was more just thinking it'd be nice to upgrade, but definitely not essential. Would ideally like it as long as possible. The 4,200 load length would be nice if it wouldn't put too much of a premium on the fuel for the extra weight on the van unloaded.

The 315 sounds familiar as the one that is constantly speeding by me in a nice size and shape. When you say the crafter isn't as nice to look at, isn't the crafter the exact same shape externally as the sprinter though?

Hmm, if these are the dimensions of the 315, then I'd say it'd be pretty hit and miss at the ferry port, it's almost 7m or about 1300mm longer than the transit. From the bulk head to the front bumper seems a lot larger than the transit, or maybe it's just the shape.

cormie

Also, I have a luton transit with tail lift already so that's for the bigger loads/piano moves, the LWB Transit and whatever I'd be replacing it with, would be for the quicker moves like small apartment moves, sofas etc. The Luton is only 6.6m total length so even shorter than the 315, but the luton body gives it more cubic capacity.

It'd be nice to have something in between the LWB and the Luton transit, especially for the UK jobs and the 315 looks perfect, although it's longer, it's a lot less obvious than the Luton is for the ferry. I don't do that many ferry crossings, only a handful a year, and use the LWB for pretty much all of them. It'd be nice to have a bit more room though.

I was speaking to the lads in the freight cabin yesterday in Holyhead and they said you might get away with the sprinter as passenger. I saw one Sprinter in the passenger queue from Holyhead to Dublin and another sprinter in the freight queue from Callais to Dover. Both the LWB I think.

Seems to be a lot of 313's on Ebay, what's the difference between these and the 315?

R.O.R

315 relates to the engine output. Came in 311, 313 and 315 - think a 311 is around 110bhp. 313 is around 130 and 315 are 150 ish.

Then there are SWB (very Rare), MWB and LWB, and I think different roof heights too. Irish Sprinters came as standard with the High Roof (option in the UK), then there is a super high roof option as well.

aaakev

R.O.R wrote: »

315 relates to the engine output. Came in 311, 313 and 315 - think a 311 is around 110bhp. 313 is around 130 and 315 are 150 ish.

Then there are SWB (very Rare), MWB and LWB, and I think different roof heights too. Irish Sprinters came as standard with the High Roof (option in the UK), then there is a super high roof option as well.

Spot on except for the roof option, high roof is standard everywhere, you cannot get a low roof lwb sprinter, only standard high or super high as an option which is also quite rare. Standard roof height on mwb is also high from the factory with low roof option


Op the lwb will be called a 315/43 but if its bigger again you need you can get a 315/43ex which is 4700 mm bulkhead to doors! Also quite rare though

315/43 translates to - 3.5ton van, 150bhp, 4300mm wheelbase

cormie

Thanks a lot for the explanation. Is it the higher the HP, the higher the fuel consumption or is it the more powerful the bhp then the less fuel has to be used because it's not struggling so much or how does it work?

aaakev

They are the same engine, the difference is single or double turbo. Both have very similar mpg, difference not worth talking about, but when you put a load in and take it on a long trip the higher hp will be better.

Now just to throw a spanner into the works you can get a 318 (now 319 in current model) which has a 3.0l V6 with 180 bhp! Absolute beast of a van, tons of power in every gear and an engine that sounds so good you will have the raidio off all the time expect to pay alot more for this but its a van that will last a hell of alot of miles....

166man

Nearly every single other Mercedes van with the odd exception seems to rust really really bad and I'm not just talking about the imported one's which are destroyed with rust.

If it was me, in the current climate, I'd clean up the tranny for a grand and keep it running. A reliable van is a necessity for you and especially these days, I'd run the Ford for another few years and maybe upgrade when things look a little greener if you get me.

cormie

Thanks again for the feedback guys. Saw a 315 today unloading at the same storage centre I was and asked him what he thought of it, his was either a 08 or 09 and he said the same as mentioned above, that he's been having trouble and his mechanic said to stay away from anything below a 10. He got his in November and is already looking out for a 10 model. He said it's something about the oil level with city driving that diesel can go into the oil tank? He paid 13K for his.

He did mention that it eats fuel and if you go any kind of speed in it, it will guzzle it down, but he said it's a lovely van and lovely to drive.

If the MPG is much better than the transit, I think the transit is about 26MPG on average, it would definitely influence my decision but to spend 13K something that just looks a bit cleaner wouldn't really make sense. To be honest, it's not even that bad. Just a little jealous of the vans bombing by me on the Autobahn last week :pac:

derry

In 2007/8 drove lots of different vans for the courier work mostly 2004 renaults SWB MWB LWB and and 2000 mercs LWB all around eastern Irl mostly . Renault lovly to drive but were in bits after three years .Mercs lovely to drive but handling with no ABS was more tricky and could clock up to 1,000,000 kilometers easy
The word then was the New Merc were crap went 100,000 kilometers and the engine was ****ed .The only half good van to get in 2008 the boss and the other drivers said was ford tranny as all the new vans were being made with **** stuff so were not as good as old vans .

I left the game but for me the problem with ford tranny and many vans is the rust .Only vans with careful owners seem to not rust too bad but once the rust starts its seems from expert i talk to that is nearly impossible at any sort of economical price to stop the rust .

this 315 guy saying oil was issue .I have No idea how oil can get into fuel tank or fuel can get into oil tank and cross contaminate each other .What i think he is referring to is that the new diesel fuel of EU mandated to be used in all EU including Eire has ~7% to ~10% bio fuel in it . In heavy slow city traffic the common rail doesn't use much fuel so sends a lot of the fuel back to tank.However the common rail heats the bio fuel and because bio fuel is a unstable fuel it changes into a bad fuel of types from this heating event . Lots of fuel recirculated back to tank over time looks like it *ecks up the common rail engines .This bad fuel collecting in the bottom of tank and fuel filters might look like lubricating oil from engine and so mechanic might have assumed that it was oil level issue of some sort .If oil were to come on top of pistons it would normally burn up. For the diesel to get inot the oil would mean the injectors were giving so much fuel the unburnt diesel would drip into the oil tank and to that would probably mean he was getting 5MPG which i dought he or his boss could afford to run after one month . So for me it looks like he means the fuel is getting contaminated with oil of some sort .However maybe there is some known issue unique oil issue to the 08/09 315 . The Constant motor way driving where there is most of the fuel in the common rail used up it looks like there is less risk that much bad fuel will go back to the tank and if it does there will be much less of it .Keeping the fuel tanks mostly full above half way mark will also help that problem as the bad fuel will be diluted in the tank .UK diesel is reputed to be better quality than ROI stuff so filling up there it seems will help reduce the fuel issues .
For vans doing lots of city driving cleaning out fuel tanks and fuel filters every few weeks might reduce the problems of the bad fuel accumulating in the tank. Then put the knackered fuel from clean up event into the old vans of the fleet with non common rail as they can burn sh1te fuel better than common rails can

Derry

cormie

I'm not sure exactly what it was he said, but he said about checking the dip stick and seeing the level had risen and it turns out some diesel was in it. He did mention about some EU law too so I'm not sure if it's related.

I wonder how the newer shape crafters hold up?

darragh o meara

cormie wrote: »

I'm not sure exactly what it was he said, but he said about checking the dip stick and seeing the level had risen and it turns out some diesel was in it. He did mention about some EU law too so I'm not sure if it's related.

I wonder how the newer shape crafters hold up?

Yep he's right, I worked for a merc dealer for a few years and came across this problem a few times.

The sprinter is a good comfortable van, but like any others it has it's downsides. I've read of the engine problems recently but it wasn't an issue when I worked with them so can't comment on that issue.

cormie

Thanks for that, I think it's meant to be ok after the 09 model. Tried googling to see the MPG and am getting wildly different results from 15 :eek: to 35. A higher fuel consumption would definitely be a put off.

cormie

This could possibly be a good deal? Engine re-done (I wonder did that fix the problem for good or will it resurface?) and then traction control and a 2nd key required. I wonder how much both of them will add to the overall price?
http://www.adverts.ie/trucks-commercial/mercedes-sprinter-315/3402018

cormie

Uh, some even more bad news on this van. Had her in at the mechanic and all relatively fine but there's a problem with the rear axle, I was writing different bits down as the mechanic was talking to me over the phone but I think it was something to do with the differential bearing on the rear axle and it will need a complete overhaul or a 2nd hand axle, which I've been told there's no way of knowing what issues could lie with that.

There are metal shreddings going through the oil or something along them lines and it will probably cost in the region of 1K to overhaul.

This is even a stronger push now to go and get a sprinter. If there was only some way to be sure of the fuel consumption compared to the transit for the same load weight and speed.

Also, did the crafter have the same engine issues up to 09? Would I be better off looking for a Crafter I wonder?



There's also been an issue, electronic fault, where sometimes if you're going around 85mph (Autobahn :P) the coil lights can come on and the speed drops to about 50 and is very slow to respond, a quick turn off and back on of the engine and everything is back to normal, mechanic can't really diagnose this as the first and last time he checked gave different results without nothing the last time really relating to the issue. He said given what happens and the first fault he got that it mayyyy be an indication that the injection pump could be showing signs of wear and that this would be about 1K to replace too.

aaakev

Crafter has a different engine, its a 2.5, 5 cylinder thats under powered and thirsty...

Not as nice to drive or look at as a sprinter and the inteerier feels alot cheaper.

cormie

I'm not seeing much difference between the two on the exterior? The interior wouldn't be too big a concern design wise. aaakev, have you any stats on real driving MPG?

http://c0.carsie.ie/d43864c90df075c94489ddbe4ca5ffe967e4ec38146a75a489eab774b30b249a.jpg

http://images.tradevansdirect.co.uk/images/library/KV60XAR_01.jpg

aaakev

They are the built in the same factory on the same production line ising alot of the same parts but they have different inteerier, engine, bonnet, bumpers, lights ect..

I know guys getting over 700km out of a 75 ltr tank driving the country. One guy has a mostly city run in dublin of about 200 drops per day and fills up every 2 weeks or so.

Depending on your driving your looking at between 8L/100km and 9.5 on the higher end

cormie

Thanks again for the info and apologies for the late reply. 8/9.5l per 100km is pretty good, I think the transit gets around 10.5/11 on eco driving (80/90kmph).

I saw the extra lwb with the extra high roof drive by me today. The extra high roof doesn't look like it ads much space so probably wouldn't be worth trying to get one at the extra cost considering the rarity of them, same with the extra lwb. I have the LUTON transit for the larger jobs anyway, this would be to replace the LWB transit, nice to have it as long as possible without going to the freight ferry rate.

The question I guess is how do I get it. Do I pay 8/9000 now for one from the UK with high mileage and risk having to spend a bit on repairs etc or do I do a hire purchase on a better one or indeed just lease one out and get the repairs all taken care of.

The convenience of the leasing is tempting for sure and knowing how much it will cost me, but inside I'm just screaming no because if it's going to be say €150 a week, I'd have almost paid for a used one after a year anyway.

So I should definitely stay away from anything 09 or below then or would it be safe to go with one that has had a new engine?

cormie

Not many 315's available on ebay it seems. This one looks in pretty good condition though: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2010-Mercedes-Benz-Sprinter-315-CDI-LWB-MOT-and-TAX-Included-/190888738412?pt=UK_Commercial_Trucks&hash=item2c71dafe6c

cormie

Have had an offer of a 311 2007 with around 100K miles for €6,000.

After what's been said above, I'd be afraid to get anything older than a 2010 and would really prefer the 315 too. Would I be mad going for the 311 2007 deal?

aaakev

The 311 didn have the engine trouble. Your looking at a 110 bhp van there so depending on your run you might find it lacking power for over taking ect on longer runs

corktina

P..is this a Mk3? (ie pre-smilie....) I have a mirror glass for it if so if that is of any use to you

cormie

Oh wow, so the engine trouble mentioned above which affected models until 2010 was only with the 315? or was it with the 313 too, but not the 311?

Interesting indeed! My current Transit is 90 and the other one, I forget if it's 110 or 125, but it's much better. I'd say 150 would be great for the longer journeys and overtaking but maybe 110 would be ok?

aaakev

Yeah a small few 313's had some trouble ( i put alot of that down to lads driving the absolute ****e out of them all the time because the restricted 5ton version didnt have any trouble dispite having the exact same engine) but i have never seen a 311 with it! If your happy with the power in the transit you will like the sprinter, take it for a spin an try do it with some weight in it too if you can

Moomat

Have you considered a pre new shape 313 sprinter, say 2005? They are are a lovely van to drive, very economical and super reliable. They do suffer from rust but if you can find a non white colour you should be ok, they seem to rust less. I've owned all the above vans you're discussing and found the older shape sprinter to be the best. The new shape 315's were by far the worst, big end bearing going continually, even on engine that had been replaced under warranty. Never had problems with 311's though only ever used a MWB and even at that it felt underpowered.

cormie

Thanks again for the replies.

Would definitely prefer to stick with a new shape. The van is also an advertising billboard for me and I think the new shape sprinters/crafters are probably the nicest out there.

That's good to know the 311's didn't suffer the oil leaking engine problem mentioned and sad to hear the 315 has other problems as the idea of 150hp is pretty nice!

bigroad

I think you should check out the iveco daily.They have plenty of power and i dont think they rust as bad.The engines are fairly economical and there is a good euro back up service.If your heart is set on a sprinter i would buy the last of the old type 2006 313 ,130hp.The 2006 sprinter only has a 5 speed box where as the iveco was available with a 6 speed.Just something to think about.Good luck with your choice.

Moomat

The oil/fuel contamination shouldn't effect you in any van as this is an issue with DPF regeneration I believe. By the sounds of it you're doing high speed/mileage and this is what the van needs to regenerate properly. People doing stop/start work or short distances suffer most from this.

Good luck with your search!

cormie

Heart is definitely set on the new shape sprinter I know it limits my options a lot but it definitely seems like the right van for what I need it for. If only there were some way to tell how long a van would last without giving trouble

bigroad

If you buy any van nowadays you have to be ready for trouble .I dont think there is one trouble free van on sale anymore.The older vans were great but now its hit and miss.The only way to do it is keep 1000 to 2000 in the bank.Other then that go lease with service which is pricey as you know.My bet would be get a sprinter 318 v6 .Its the same engine as the cars and the jeep ,same engine in the s class.

s14driftking

driving crafters a lot lately had a 2010 last week threw it back to the yard fecked shocks all round issues with the brakes propshaft whacking underneath something falling out of the front suspension on both sides death trap imo didn't have what id call high mileage had 105000 miles on it
had 131 then uncomfortable not much spec sluggish underpowered and hard on diesel some could awque that its not broke in yet and engine was tight but it had 17000 miles on it.
for the op if I was considering a van id possibly consider a Renault master new as a owner driver but if gonna be a few drivers on it id look at a transit or something well proven in hard slogging

cormie

bigroad wrote: »

If you buy any van nowadays you have to be ready for trouble .I dont think there is one trouble free van on sale anymore.The older vans were great but now its hit and miss.The only way to do it is keep 1000 to 2000 in the bank.Other then that go lease with service which is pricey as you know.My bet would be get a sprinter 318 v6 .Its the same engine as the cars and the jeep ,same engine in the s class.

So what's that, 180hp? They must be really rare?

s14driftking wrote: »

driving crafters a lot lately had a 2010 last week threw it back to the yard fecked shocks all round issues with the brakes propshaft whacking underneath something falling out of the front suspension on both sides death trap imo didn't have what id call high mileage had 105000 miles on it
had 131 then uncomfortable not much spec sluggish underpowered and hard on diesel some could awque that its not broke in yet and engine was tight but it had 17000 miles on it.
for the op if I was considering a van id possibly consider a Renault master new as a owner driver but if gonna be a few drivers on it id look at a transit or something well proven in hard slogging

When you said "had 131" did you mean the 311? I'll probably take one for a test drive and see how I get on. So the new shape sprinters aren't really "well proven" in being hard slogging you reckon?

aaakev

The 318 is a 3.0l v6, 180bhp. They are the beast of the sprinters... Yes they are rare, i sell maybe 2 a year and the trade ins are gone in days an sometimes hours if i dont have a buyer before the new van is delivered! The new one is a 319, 190bhp!

cormie

Ah one can dream I guess, they sound likes beasts alright

s14driftking

cormie wrote: »

So what's that, 180hp? They must be really rare?



When you said "had 131" did you mean the 311? I'll probably take one for a test drive and see how I get on. So the new shape sprinters aren't really "well proven" in being hard slogging you reckon?

no 131 reg crafter no I don't think they would take a hsrd life without a big wallet