Waterford Airport V Galway Airport

Aerohead

Minister for transport Leo Varadkar has granted Waterford Airport €400,000 for a runway extension , this despite the fact that Aer Arann pulled out the same as Galway and left them with no flights, how come they can pull this off and we cant but then again they have a Minister down there and we dont, the whole thing stinks.

Link: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/department-of-transport-approves-400-000-for-runway-extension-at-waterford-airport-1.1491103

sgthighway

Galway doesn't need an Airport so why put money into it.

gordongekko

Or have the land to extend the runway.

Laviski

galway airport is doomed once the money they get from park and ride goes. the runway needs to be extended but there is no space to make the runway the required lenght for the aircraft of 2day. if you look at the plans for the outer n6 which i believe that part has the planning permission (the part west side of the corrib is where the problem is) it throws the runway extension out the window.

galway airport should have moved to the military property in the boom. GCC is teh main stakeholder and they are the ones floggin a dead horse and noone to blame except themselves

Storm 10

sgthighway wrote: »

Galway doesn't need an Airport so why put money into it.

Same can be said about Waterford, Motorway connections to Cork and Dublin, Aer Arann pulled the plug on both Airports and I think I can say hand on heart that Galway was the birthplace of Aer Arann, they started here then grew and spread their wings then look what they done to it .

Strange though in tough times how the Minister can find €400,000, would that be because their is a Fine Gael TD there in John Deasy and we have no one here to fight for Galway. :mad:

keano89

If there wasn't scope to extend the runway at Carnmore an alternative site should have been chosen. Lets not forget that the Galway airport was built by a busnessman for his own use before being sold years later. Only for that there wouldn't even be an airport in Galway.

Too late now I'm afraid though to build a new one or upgrade the existing one, Galway will never have an airport, the improved road to Limerick and Gort by-pass would seem to suggest that they want us to use Shannon or Dublin.

death1234567

sgthighway wrote: »

Galway doesn't need an Airport so why put money into it.

Neither does waterford.

Galway will never have an airport, the improved road to Limerick and Gort by-pass would seem to suggest that they want us to use Shannon or Dublin.

Government in basic common sense decision shocker!

Robbo

For reference: Breakdown of shareholders at Galway Airport.

mike65

Storm 10 wrote: »

Strange though in tough times how the Minister can find €400,000, would that be because their is a Fine Gael TD there in John Deasy and we have no one here to fight for Galway. :mad:

That made me laugh. Galway poor poor Galway, never gets anything Galway.

ben.schlomo

Storm 10 wrote: »

Same can be said about Waterford, Motorway connections to Cork and Dublin, Aer Arann pulled the plug on both Airports and I think I can say hand on heart that Galway was the birthplace of Aer Arann, they started here then grew and spread their wings then look what they done to it .

Strange though in tough times how the Minister can find €400,000, would that be because their is a Fine Gael TD there in John Deasy and we have no one here to fight for Galway. :mad:

Fight for what? There is no scope to develop the airport here so thats the end of that, if there is and its viable in Waterford(which id doubt) then fair play to them for trying.

El_Dangeroso

sgthighway wrote: »

Galway doesn't need an Airport so why put money into it.

This isn't true, we had clients trying to visit us in work, they asked how to get here from Switzerland. It would be great to say get connecting flight from heathrow but we could only advise Shannon or Knock and would then have to hire a car. (not the type of client you want to tell get on a bus) They ended up telling us to meet them in Dublin.

And don't get me started on the joke of a list of destinations Knock and Shannon fly to.

This is hurting business in the west I have no doubt.

Also, I was visiting a conference in Cambridge where people from all over Europe as far as Poland were attending, it took all the people I spoke to a shorter time to travel than it did me. over 13 hours door to door!

Chicken1

Guys why are some of ye so anti-airport anywhere else in the Country and they would be tripping over themselves to save an Airport, Galway was fantastic when it was operating, I used it loads of times, why not direct your negativity towards trying to get it working again, just think what we had in the good times. London , Manchester, Cork, Lorient, Malaga, Edinburgh, and Dublin. If Waterford can do it why not Galway . Galway politicans get off your a..e and see if some type of flights can be got back.

Laviski

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

This isn't true, we had clients trying to visit us in work, they asked how to get here from Switzerland. It would be great to say get connecting flight from heathrow but we could only advise Shannon or Knock and would then have to hire a car. (not the type of client you want to tell get on a bus) They ended up telling us to meet them in Dublin.

And don't get me started on the joke of a list of destinations Knock and Shannon fly to.

This is hurting business in the west I have no doubt.

Also, I was visiting a conference in Cambridge where people from all over Europe as far as Poland were attending, it took all the people I spoke to a shorter time to travel than it did me. over 13 hours door to door!

galway airport would have a chance if it was re located. its gonna find it difficult in years to come to accommodate future aircraft. atm its best bet to cater for small private jets/flying club and para jumps and hope to survive on that. but like i said once the council withdraw the park and ride funding it will find it very tough.

Here is a shot of the Oranmore airfield from the 70s - before Carnmore opened.
http://www.ronaldv.nl/abandoned/airfields/ei/west.html


I don't think I could support the cost of building a brand new airport on a new site here in Galway - no matter how nice it would be to have those services on our doorstep.

JillyQ

Laviski wrote: »

galway airport is doomed once the money they get from park and ride goes. the runway needs to be extended but there is no space to make the runway the required lenght for the aircraft of 2day. if you look at the plans for the outer n6 which i believe that part has the planning permission (the part west side of the corrib is where the problem is) it throws the runway extension out the window.

galway airport should have moved to the military property in the boom. GCC is teh main stakeholder and they are the ones floggin a dead horse and noone to blame except themselves

Galway airport should been built orginally on the miltary lands in the1970's. Not where it is now. If it was we would have scope for the larger aircraft.

L1011

Waterford has flights. Galway does not. Both has equal ability to get other airlines in.

death1234567

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

This isn't true, we had clients trying to visit us in work, they asked how to get here from Switzerland. It would be great to say get connecting flight from heathrow but we could only advise Shannon or Knock and would then have to hire a car.

If you fly into any airport in London chances are you'll have at least a 1 hour transfer to your final location (at best). Flying into shannon and having to hire a car to take a 45 minute - 1 hour drive to your final location in Galway isn't a big deal for anyone who is used to travelling.

And even if galway did have an airport the chances of getting a flight from Galway to Heathrow are zero.

El_Dangeroso

death1234567 wrote: »

If you fly into any airport in London chances are you'll have at least a 1 hour transfer to your final location (at best). Flying into shannon and having to hire a car to take a 45 minute - 1 hour drive to your final location in Galway isn't a big deal for anyone who is used to travelling.

And even if galway did have an airport the chances of getting a flight from Galway to Heathrow are zero.

I'm not saying it makes perfect sense, but it is a big psychological barrier. People don't mind hopping round to different airports in my business, they will almost always have some business in London so a change from heathrow to stansted or the like is not a big deal.

Asking someone to hire a car to get to your city makes Galway look like a backwater, that's the perception and it's losing us business.

Lapin

Storm 10 wrote: »

.......... Aer Arann pulled the plug on both Airports and I think I can say hand on heart that Galway was the birthplace of Aer Arann, they started here then grew and spread their wings then look what they done to it .

Such sentiments have no bearing in business.

Thats like saying Michael O'Leary owes Waterford Airport a favour because the first ever Ryanair flight departed from there.

I'd love to see the look on his face if you ran that one past him.

gordongekko

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm not saying it makes perfect sense, but it is a big psychological barrier. People don't mind hopping round to different airports in my business, they will almost always have some business in London so a change from heathrow to stansted or the like is not a big deal.

Asking someone to hire a car to get to your city makes Galway look like a backwater, that's the perception and it's losing us business.

Have you never used Dublin airport? The only way outta the airport is via car or bus exectly the same as knock or Shannon.
have you ever been stuck in Dublin traffic? An hour drive is a dream compared to sone of the journeys taken in Dublin.

All business people worry about is the all mighty dollar and not the hours drive.

El_Dangeroso

gordongekko wrote: »

Have you never used Dublin airport? The only way outta the airport is via car or bus exectly the same as knock or Shannon.
have you ever been stuck in Dublin traffic? An hour drive is a dream compared to sone of the journeys taken in Dublin.

All business people worry about is the all mighty dollar and not the hours drive.

Did you read what I said? It's about perception, and no, business people could care less about hiring a taxi from the airport to the city a distance under 20km, they are on expenses. Now tell them to get a taxi for over 80km and they will raise an eyebrow.

And before anyone else points out other logistical foibles they can save themselves the bother. I experience the reaction of business people first hand. Whataboutery doesn't really cut it when you are trying to drum up business.

L1011

Shannon Airport is only marginally longer drivetime from Galway than a number of other major business airports such as Heathrow from London CC and SFO from San Francisco CC.

Any business traveller will take a mainline jet to an airport with business facilities and an executive minibus transfer over a 20 year old turboprop to a hut in a field. If you're expecting them to hail a taxi you're doing it wrong.

sgthighway

My company will hire a chauffeur to pick up any important visitors from Shannon If the head guy comes we charter a helicopter. If its ordinary Joe Blogs he rents a car or gets a taxi.

Does anybody know how much the head of Galway Airport gets paid a year?

Storm 10

sgthighway wrote: »

My company will hire a chauffeur to pick up any important visitors from Shannon If the head guy comes we charter a helicopter. If its ordinary Joe Blogs he rents a car or gets a taxi.

Does anybody know how much the head of Galway Airport gets paid a year?

What you should be asking is how much they were paid before it closed down too much, its run by Galway Chamber of Commerce now

gordongekko

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Did you read what I said? It's about perception, and no, business people could care less about hiring a taxi from the airport to the city a distance under 20km, they are on expenses. Now tell them to get a taxi for over 80km and they will raise an eyebrow.

And before anyone else points out other logistical foibles they can save themselves the bother. I experience the reaction of business people first hand. Whataboutery doesn't really cut it when you are trying to drum up business.

that's not the reality of what I have experienced. The reality of global travel is that an airport within an hours drive is not an issue. It have never been used as an excuse to me for not doing business with us.

Mrs OBumble

sgthighway wrote: »

My company will hire a chauffeur to pick up any important visitors from Shannon If the head guy comes we charter a helicopter. If its ordinary Joe Blogs he rents a car or gets a taxi.

My company hired a hackney to take me (a very ordinary Josie Soap) to Shannon ... back in the days when Galway was open because, surprise surprise, there were no flights to where our meeting was from Galway.

lotusm

Also, I was visiting a conference in Cambridge where people from all over Europe as far as Poland were attending, it took all the people I spoke to a shorter time to travel than it did me. over 13 hours door to door![/QUOTE]

Are talking about cambridge in the UK ? . Do Ryanair not do flights from Knock to London Standsted ? Cambridge is 40 minutes on the M11 motorway.
I presume you are talking about Cambridge in Boston, USA. Just interested where?

El_Dangeroso

MYOB wrote: »

Shannon Airport is only marginally longer drivetime from Galway than a number of other major business airports such as Heathrow from London CC and SFO from San Francisco CC.

Any business traveller will take a mainline jet to an airport with business facilities and an executive minibus transfer over a 20 year old turboprop to a hut in a field. If you're expecting them to hail a taxi you're doing it wrong.

sgthighway wrote: »

My company will hire a chauffeur to pick up any important visitors from Shannon If the head guy comes we charter a helicopter. If its ordinary Joe Blogs he rents a car or gets a taxi.

gordongekko wrote: »

that's not the reality of what I have experienced. The reality of global travel is that an airport within an hours drive is not an issue. It have never been used as an excuse to me for not doing business with us.

Thanks for all the unsolicited logistical advice! Unfortunately none of it is based in reality. I'm telling you that our clients that would previously happy with flying into Galway now consider it far more inconvenient to get here now that it is gone. But lets not let the facts of the situation get in the way. Silly me for not chartering an executive minibus or helicopter.

Am I saying Galway airport was perfect? Absolutely not, it's runway was ridiculously short. But it is better for the profile of the city and the perception of visitors that it has an airport that bears its name. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

Robbo

Let Waterford have their extra few meters runway and lamentations for call centre jobs because Galway apparently has a lower rate of corporation tax. Next stop Caribbean tax haven status.

sydneybound

lotusm wrote: »

Also, I was visiting a conference in Cambridge where people from all over Europe as far as Poland were attending, it took all the people I spoke to a shorter time to travel than it did me. over 13 hours door to door!

Do Ryanair not do flights from Knock to London Standsted ? Cambridge is 40 minutes on the M11 motorway.
I presume you are talking about Cambridge in Boston, USA. Just interested where?[/QUOTE]

Knock have daily flights to Stansted, Gatwick and Luton. I'm sure you know but want to point out to others. Surely Knock shoud be a good 'go to' airport for the people of Galway. Less of the queueing and walking miles than at other airports saves me a load of time at Knock.

Edit - deleted the wrong part of your previous message but I'm sure you get me.

galwayrush

Robbo wrote: »

Let Waterford have their extra few meters runway and lamentations for call centre jobs because Galway apparently has a lower rate of corporation tax. Next stop Caribbean tax haven status.

:pac::pac::pac:

L1011

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Thanks for all the unsolicited logistical advice! Unfortunately none of it is based in reality. I'm telling you that our clients that would previously happy with flying into Galway now consider it far more inconvenient to get here now that it is gone. But lets not let the facts of the situation get in the way. Silly me for not chartering an executive minibus or helicopter.

Am I saying Galway airport was perfect? Absolutely not, it's runway was ridiculously short. But it is better for the profile of the city and the perception of visitors that it has an airport that bears its name. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

Your clients are precious little moaners who've never done business in Europe or Asia by the sounds of things. And lived beside one of the few airports Galway served.

biko

Calm down please

dloob

They had their chance to move the airport back in the boom and turned it down.
I suspect the too small for Ryanair runway suited Aer Arran at the time.
Hasn't worked out long term though.

Anyway even when it was open and I was sent on business trips it was usually a taxi to Shannon that was the most convenient option.
It was probably cheaper too.

johnsds

sgthighway wrote: »

Galway doesn't need an Airport so why put money into it.

Say that to MEDEVAC112 or any RESCUE helicopter..

sgthighway

johnsds wrote: »

Say that to MEDEVAC112 or any RESCUE helicopter..

They can refuel in Army Barracks in Renmore just like MEDEVAC112 does in Athlone. Fire Engine already there and Army Personnel can be trained up on it if needed.

johnsds

sgthighway wrote: »

They can refuel in Army Barracks in Renmore just like MEDEVAC112 does in Athlone. Fire Engine already there and Army Personnel can be trained up on it if needed.

There is no fire tender at Renmore Barracks.

AFAIK the Air Corps provide the fuel/repairs/firefighting at Athlone and Athlone Barracks square is huge compared to Renmore Barracks and is the base for M112.

Renmore is not feasible, S92 and AW139 wont both fit into Renmore Barracks should they both require fuel at the same time, S92 rotor downwash is immense too so that's not going to help either in a confined space.

Renmore Barracks does not have a helicopter pad either, that was done away with.

Besides where do you propose The Galway Flying Club go to? What about the Bizjets that are now frequently using EICM seeing as the tower is once again manned and the current civillian Helicopter operations out there and the General Aviation aircraft that are slowly returning to EICM.

Medevac112 is an above excellent service and so is the IRCG and it just makes great sense to keep EICM open for them as the facilities are already in place for both should they need to "gas n go" at the same time as are Firefighting vehicles certified to international standards CAT1 up to CAT6 to should they perform a hot refuel ( more likely than not ) and a hot refuel is going to be way safer done at an airport such as EICM than in a small Barracks.

And as for civilian/GA Aircraft, well hopefully it will once again flourish.

L1011

I don't think Galway as a GA field is in much doubt - its just not going to see commercial service again. There's probably demand for business GA travel too - look at how the drugs factory in Bantry has its own runway; and why the IDA built the runway in Donegal to serve Gweedore's business parks (before anyone thought of opening an airport there).

dloob

johnsds wrote: »

Renmore Barracks does not have a helicopter pad either, that was done away with.

Doesn't stop the AW139 landing there, there has been about one visit a month recently.
Looks tight though, it looks like it lands in the courtyard and it's a very slow careful descent into it.

Storm 10

sgthighway wrote: »

They can refuel in Army Barracks in Renmore just like MEDEVAC112 does in Athlone. Fire Engine already there and Army Personnel can be trained up on it if needed.

Just shows how much you know about Coastguard and Air Corps helicopters, as pointed out in post Renmore has no helipad or refuelling pumps, Coastguard has never been in or would never go in and if they did its not just a case of putting a hose in its a very technical thing with these modern helicopters.

Galway Airport is vital for the rescue services and I hope some day it will be back .

sgthighway

Fire Engine was there last May and commitment was given in July 2012 that it was there to stay.

Plenty of room in the Square of the Barracks for Medevac112. I have seen what looked like a portable fuel tank for this at the likes of the foot of Croagh Patrick. The same fuel tank was towed by something like a Toyota Landcruiser.

As for the new SAR Helipcopters how long will it take them to by pass Galway to go to Shannon considering their faster speed and longer range? Have any of the new ones landed in Galway yet?

If the Army can build roads and bridges in a few hours I reckon they could but a Helipad together down behind the Barracks on the Wasteland.

Storm 10

The new S92s are into Galway Airport for fuel on a regular basis and into the Hospital, medevac 112 is a regular caller into Galway Airport for fuel so its a vital part of the rescue setup.

notharrypotter

Galway Airport is vital for the rescue services and I hope some day it will be back .

Curious here. Coastguard operate from Sligo and Shannon.
Aer Corp operates out of Casement to Athlone.
Its a useful tool no more no less.

S92 and AW139 wont both fit into Renmore Barracks should they both require fuel at the same time,

The new S92s are into Galway Airport for fuel on a regular basis and into the Hospital, medevac 112 is a regular caller into Galway Airport for fuel so its a vital part of the rescue setup.

Fuel top up is a not a regular occurrence.
Would not like to be building a business case for an Airport based on this.
To the best of my knowledge both helicopters have an endurance in excess of 2 hours.
That's 100 to 120 miles from base and same back without needing a top up.

As far as I know no hospital helipad can accommodate 2 helicopters at the same time either.

There's probably demand for business GA travel too - look at how the drugs factory in Bantry has its own runway;

Yes and they are paying for the running costs too.

Without a doubt Galway airport is a useful General Aviation tool.
As to what level of support it should get should be based on this not a fanciful notion of scheduled aircraft.

We are a small country with finite resources.

tankbarry

the 400,000 is not for a runway extension its to buy land and for a safety area to be put up. it is needed on the 03 end. No runway extension coming yet for Waterford.

antoobrien

notharrypotter wrote: »

Fuel top up is a not a regular occurrence.
...
Would not like to be building a business case for an Airport based on this.
To the best of my knowledge both helicopters have an endurance in excess of 2 hours.
That's 100 to 120 miles from base and same back without needing a top up.

That actually proves the need for refuelling in the airport as a helicopter on a rescue 30 minutes flying time from Sligo could use up to half of its fuel (including the hover time to actually get the peron/people being rescued on board). Getting to Galway could require another 30 minutes flying time (depending on the direction of flight), so its entirely possible that the aircraft could be close to reserves by the time they land at the hospital in Galway.

notharrypotter

That actually proves the need for refuelling in the airport as a helicopter on a rescue 30 minutes flying time from Sligo could use up to half of its fuel (including the hover time to actually get the peron/people being rescued on board). Getting to Galway could require another 30 minutes flying time (depending on the direction of flight), so its entirely possible that the aircraft could be close to reserves by the time they land at the hospital in Galway.

MEDIVAC 112 lands at the incident site, shuts down, loads casualty, starts again and heads for relevant hospital.
So 1 hour at 120 mph from Athlone covers most of the country.
Refueling might be necessary if it has carried out one detail and is tasked immediately for a second and there is no time to return to Athlone for fuel.

Not a very common scenario.
Factor in the fact that it covers other parts of the country aside from Galway makes needing to refuel in Galway exclusively a remote scenario.

Coastguard helicopters on a SAR mission will use hover and winch as necessary.
Again 45 min flying from Sligo or Shannon is about 90 miles.

Which again covers most of the mid west.

I am not sure of the exact endurance but its at least 2.5hours and maybe more when on a SAR detail off the coast.

So 45 min out, 30 min on site 45 min back still leaves 30 min fuel

Galway is a useful tool but I do not believe it is so essential that the emergency helicopter services on the west coast will cease without it.

notharrypotter

http://www.chcsar.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=43

CHC website
Max long range cruise speed of S92 138 KTS
Reange in excess of 250 NM

Aerohead

Guys this info from a person who knows, UCHG is now a centre of excellence for Cardiac patients and medical emergencies, as such it is currently the busiest hospital in the Country for helicopter operations.

Recently over two days Rescue 117 from Waterford brought in two divers suffering from the bends to the decompression chamber in Galway, after dropping off the divers at the Hospital it went to Galway Airport for fuel and returned to Waterford. Medevac 112 is bringing in patients from as far as Donegal, Kerry and the South East on a regular basis, they off load the casualty and the Paramedic will go to casualty with the patient while 112 goes to Galway for fuel if required it then returns to the Hospital to collect the Paramedic and go back to Athlone or as has happened many times this year another tasking

The same happens numerous times with the Coastguard Helicopters. the new S92s bring in casualties, crewman goes to casualty with patient where he will inform staff of the patients condition and get back his stretcher, in the meantime the helicopter would go to the Airport for fuel if required and return to pick up the crewman.

So as you can see Galway Airport is a very important cog in the wheels of the rescue services and is providing a very important refuelling facility.

The Helicopters currently operating into Galway are Rescue 118 Sligo, Rescue 115 Shannon all are the new S92s and Rescue 117 the S61 from Waterford and of course the Air Corps Medevac 112

gifted

Aerohead wrote: »

Guys this info from a person who knows, UCHG is now a centre of excellence for Cardiac patients and medical emergencies, as such it is currently the busiest hospital in the Country for helicopter operations.

Recently over two days Rescue 117 from Waterford brought in two divers suffering from the bends to the decompression chamber in Galway, after dropping off the divers at the Hospital it went to Galway Airport for fuel and returned to Waterford. Medevac 112 is bringing in patients from as far as Donegal, Kerry and the South East on a regular basis, they off load the casualty and the Paramedic will go to casualty with the patient while 112 goes to Galway for fuel if required it then returns to the Hospital to collect the Paramedic and go back to Athlone or as has happened many times this year another tasking

The same happens numerous times with the Coastguard Helicopters. the new S92s bring in casualties, crewman goes to casualty with patient where he will inform staff of the patients condition and get back his stretcher, in the meantime the helicopter would go to the Airport for fuel if required and return to pick up the crewman.

So as you can see Galway Airport is a very important cog in the wheels of the rescue services and is providing a very important refuelling facility.

The Helicopters currently operating into Galway are Rescue 118 Sligo, Rescue 115 Shannon all are the new S92s and Rescue 117 the S61 from Waterford and of course the Air Corps Medevac 112

So would they be better off to have fuel ready at the hospital so?

Storm 10

gifted wrote: »

So would they be better off to have fuel ready at the hospital so?

Are you serious you cant refuel at a hospital, the Airport or their own base

gifted

Why not?