Fouling shots.

One shot on kill

Quick bag of worms here.

I was out the other evening with tawny owl. I took a shot at about 153 paces I reckon it was a bit further in yards.
Anyway I had the rifle zeroed 1inch high at 100

Should the bullet drop be lower or will the bullet be still rising at about 150 -170 yards. I was aiming at about a 2.5 inch circle but was a little bit hard to see as it was only a pen line.

Infairness we only fired a total of 5 shots with 1 two shot group but the rounds were 2 inchs apart anyway. But I had just earned the rifle spotless would it normaly take more than 1 round to foul the barrel and for every thing to be back to normal.

I did have a fall about 2 weeks ago out lamping but I do t think I banged the scope or banged it hard I'm not sure but there is no mark on anything and it was really long grass so I'm not to worried about the scope been knocked off.

Do I just need more practice.
A better visable target.
Or let a coue of more rounds through for it to settle back in.

The rifle will 1 hole 3 shots at 100 yards no problem. Oh ye its 243 cal.

Cass

What round are you using?

I tried everything i could get my hands on in the RPA, and the only ammo that was "on" at 200 yards when set 1" high at 100 was the 58gr V-Max. Even then they were high as they are like lasers.

The SST (Hornady 95gr), and Federal (95gr) when set at 1.25" high at 100 would be on for 200 yards. Everything else had between 2-2.25" drop between 100 and 200 yards.

So if you have it set 1" high at 100 you are possibly looking at a zero of approx 140 yards. Meaning if you fired at 150-170 yards you'l' be at worse 0.5" off (not allowing for shooter error).

As for fouling it. The RPA shot the same whether clean, dirty, cold or hot. However with the .223, 6.5, and .308 i had to run a few fouling shots, but only if i scrubbed the nuts out of it. If i gave a standard clean they were pretty much on the ball.

In terms of your point of aim (POA) compared to point of impact (POI) where were the bullets striking?

One shot on kill

I was aiming at a 50 cent coin size circle. One was half inch higher than the circle and the othe was half inch low 1 inch right.

I was using 100grain btsp harnady rounds. Does parallax have anything to do with it at that range obviously I had a clear image an all.

Infairness I did scrubb the bollox out of it. A couple of days before.

More than Likely shooter error

Cass

What twist is your rifle?

Parallax can cause issues. If it's not set right and you are not right down the scope you may think you are aiming at the target when in fact you are not. Was there any blurring in the scope, any shadowing/darkness? Did you need to focus your eye to clear the crosshairs then again for the target? What set up did you have for shooting off (bipod, bag, rest, clamp, etc).

One shot on kill

Rifle is 1:10 twist as far as I know.

Tikka t3.

No cross hairs were clear perfect site picture when I adjust parralax

I was shooting of a bipod but on the second shot I noticed the cross hairs were level when looking through the scope this is because of bipods they don't hold the rifle level for some reason. But they will be coming off for the season.

Why what you thinking cass.

Cass

For 80+ gr bullets you need a 1:10 or faster. I was thinking if you are using a heavy bullet is a slow twist rate you might not get perfect results.

Secondly if the parallax is off then when you look down the scope you might not have the barrel pointing at what you are aiming at. That sounds silly and perhaps there is a better way to explain it, but if you move your head and the crosshairs move with you then the parallax is not correct. meaning you could move your head and move the crosshairs onto the target without actually moving the rifle/barrel. Get my meaning?

Third. How you shoot. When shooting of a bipod i've noticed most rifles have a tendency to "hop" or bounce. You generally need to load the bipod, and have a soft ground under you (not concrete, etc). Also for testing purposes you should use as much support as you can. Back bag, etc. Get the rifle as steady as possible.

Lastly the ammo. Maybe she just does not like the ammo. Have you tried other brands, grainages?

One shot on kill

Ok load the bipod do you mean weight it down a bit infairness I did notice the rifle jump. But it was on a big not concrete sometimes I try push again the bipods is this good or bad practice.

So in checking the parallax your moving your eye and barely creating a shadow in the scope and back again ensuring the cross hairs stay pointing at same direction. This can be practiced just picking targets and not actually shooting.

At 100 yards I put I can put 2 shoots in the same hole and the third less than an inch more often than not half inch away.

I got 3 federal rounds and tryed them and they were about 1.5 inchs group at 100.

Cass

One shot on kill wrote: »

Ok load the bipod do you mean weight it down.........

Loading the bipod means you are exerting a pressure or force against the bipod so that when the rifle is fired the recoil is more manageable. Proper recoil management is critical for good groups. Do not try and stop the recoil .You cannot. The force of recoil has to go somewhere, and if you stop it going back it goes up as the ground prevent it going down, and this is where muzzle flip comes into play.

For hunting it's not a big issue, but for target shooting o testing groups it's key. You need to have a proper body position, and hold. You need to allow the recoil to come back into your shoulder, and by loading the bipod you push the rifle back along the same battery path meaning after your shot you should still be on target. With practice you will be able to fire, and be back in position to see the strike.

I once wrote this for a lad that asked for tips on shooting position & technique for F=Class. It won't make you a top shot and it might not even suit, but i always show it to lads as a basis to develop your own technique from.

Hold
The rifle is rested upon a bipod, and back bag. These two items will hold the rifle up, and in position so there is no need for you to reach forward, and hold the fore end of the stock. It is redundant, and may twist your body position which in turn may cause adverse effects when firing. You should have a good grip on the stock, but if you see white fingers then it's possible you are squeezing too hard. Your natural hand position as a fist will give a cant. So the harder you grip the more of a cant you are placing on the rifle. While not evident as the bipod will prevent cant it can show up when fired as the recoil will exaggerate any imperfection in hold. Most people place the thumb across the back of the stock, curl it round, and get a good tight grip on the stock. This can lead to the above described canting. The better option would be to move your thumb, and place is at the back of the bolt. This small movement can eliminate the cant effect as the only thing now griping or having any effect on the stock is the fingers. As these are in a gripping, and pulling position they have little to no effect on the rifle other than holding it into the shoulder. This style of hold eliminates the majority of "twist".

Body Position
The other tip I would give is the position of the fingers around the front of the grip. You have two choices here depending on your personal choice. First choice is you can wrap the hand/fingers around the front of the grip as is natural. However do not press the fingertips into the stock. In other words do not clench your hand and use a death grip. The other choice is, the fingers straight out and using the bottom of the fingers (palm side of knuckles) in a straight pull action. This pulls the stock back into your shoulder in a straight line, and without any pressure from the fingers you get no twist. Really it's what feels comfortable for you.

The bore line of you rifle is the imaginary line that comes down the centre of the barrel, and travels out to the back of the rifle stock. When the rifle is fired all the pressure, and recoil comes back along this line. If a butt pad is incorrectly mounted (above or below this line) it can cause problems such as muzzle flip. Even with the best bipod fitted it's still possible to get muzzle flip although the bipod does eliminate a lot of it. Ideally what you are looking for is a butt pad that when you are behind the rifle it positions your shoulder directly inline with this bore line. Having the top of the butt pad on this line or ever so slightly above it is perfect. This way you can deal with the recoil, and get perfect follow through/battery. Follow through/Battery is the movement of the rifle when fired, and ideally you want to fire the rifle, have the recoil come straight back into your shoulder, and then through good, and natural body position have the gun return to it's original firing position.

Good body positioning is a major factor in controlling recoil. The curve of the rifle butt should fit neatly into your shoulder muscle and the position of the butt into your shoulder must be comfortably centered with a constant shoulder pressure throughout your shoot. Too much shoulder pressure will cause flyers at 8 o’clock. The position of the butt into your shoulder is equally as critical as the shoulder pressure on the butt. If ,during your shoot, you were to inadvertently raise your shoulder higher on the butt, it will cause 6 o’clock shots on the target. Similarly, if you were to drop your shoulder down towards the bottom of the butt a 12 o’clock shot on the target will result. Different positions of the butt in your shoulder during a shoot will give you elevation shots perhaps more so than any other body position factor. Whatever position and method you choose at the start of your shoot maintain that position and method for the entire shoot.

Breathing/Trigger pull
These two topics go hand in hand as one is dependant on the other. The first thing we need to do is check our trigger. Whether it is the factory fitted trigger or an aftermarket kit you should know what the pull weight on your trigger is. The trigger should should be light enough to break with minimum pressure, but not so light as to cause an accidental discharge or slam fire. This is when the action of cycling the bolt causes the sear to release, and the firing pin strikes the primer, firing the round. This occurs when the trigger is too light, and the safety mechanism of the trigger becomes redundant. It is dangerous and if a rifle is found to have this the RO will refuse to allow you to shoot. Only you ca determine you ideal weight. Some enjoy half a pound or even ounces, and other like a heavier pull. The issue with a heavy trigger is it can lead to other side effects such as "pulling" the rifle which the recoil will exaggerate, flinching as you do not know when the trigger will fire, etc. This will result in verticals on the target, and your score will be affected.

Trigger pull should be one clean, crisp movement. Ideally you want the tip of the finger or more specifically the pad of the tip of the finger to pull the trigger (halfway between the tip and joint of the finger). If you use too much of the finger you can cause left/right pull as you fire. You should NEVER snap or jerk the trigger. Slow steady pressure. There should be no creep/slack on your trigger. When the shot is fired, and during follow through there should be no sideways movement through the scope. If there is, reassess your technique, position and hold.....in particular look for a loose trigger hand on the stock, a sprawled right elbow – move it closer in towards the stock, butt not firm in the shoulder, bad alignment of your body to the rifle. With your finger still depressed on the trigger and your head still on the stock/cheek piece, your crosshairs will return to the target and point of aim. This is a good indicator of correct body positioning and shooting technique..

Throughout your trigger pull, and assuming all other aspects are steady, the other thing that is important is your breathing. You should calm, relaxed, and in control of your breathing. Maximum holding period for a fit person is 8 seconds, whereas for an unfit person it is 3 seconds. You must keep yourself fit if you wish to succeed at any level of shooting. Breathing is a very important element of making a good shot. Breathing controls your body metabolism – anxiety levels, heartbeat, concentration, relaxation, muscle control, steadiness, clear sighting. Breathe in normally, breathe out, hold breath at natural end of exhale. Settle. Fire shot. Follow through. Hold your breath for not longer than 6-8 seconds before firing. Ideally, fire your shot somewhere between 2 and 5 seconds during your hold period. If your concentration decreases or your scope picture blurs or distorts....stop.....look away at something greenish, close your eyes, take 2-3 deep breaths and then begin breathing cycle again.

One shot on kill wrote:

So in checking the parallax your moving your eye and barely creating a shadow in the scope and back again ensuring the cross hairs stay pointing at same direction. This can be practiced just picking targets and not actually shooting.

At 100 yards I put I can put 2 shoots in the same hole and the third less than an inch more often than not half inch away.

I got 3 federal rounds and tryed them and they were about 1.5 inchs group at 100.

Move your head, not your eye. Small movements, but if the crosshair follows your eye then you need to check your parallax.

As for the previous results. If the gun can do that then it's possible the ammo is just not suiting it. Was it the same ammo that you are using now? If so it could be you were having a bad day, not watching the wind, or there is actually something up with the rifle/scope.

One shot on kill

To be fair I said it to tawny I was finding it hard to see the target so I just left it for the day. So if I get a solid dot on the page and aim it that as apossed to the circle line.

I got the best groups at 100 with hornady. So stuck with them but never shot out past 100 with the rifle yet.

I was gonna leave things the way they are and just try group it again tomorrow at 100 see what happens if it groups well at 100 again then its me at the distance. I think if I can hit a clay pigeon at 100-200-300 I'm not doing to bad or is that a bit ambitious.

I not a seriously confident shooter I'm not afraid but I do know my capability need practicing and I'm decent shot but able to miss at the same time if I'm not thned in 110% on every shot. If that makes sense.

Cheers for your advice and time cass.

EWQuinn

.243 100 gr bullet with factory load, approx 2900 fps and zero at 200 should put you about 1.5 high at 100, pretty flat.

2700 fps maybe 2 in or a little more high at 100, still pretty flat

One shot on kill

That sounds good Quinn I was out again the other nite 1 inch group at 100 and it was four inch at 200. So I'd be fairly safe in saying its me at the distance.

Will the heat of the barrel make much of a differance.

EWQuinn

Yes with a hunting profile barrel the heat can make a big difference, depending somewhat on the bedding too.

With hunting rifles I only shoot 3 shots for group, after fouling the barrel with 1 or 2 shots. I always try to bring 2 rifles to the range, and in the 95 - 100 degree heat we sometimes shoot in, I will often switch rifles and allow one to cool and test the other (usually testing reloads in my case, can be tedious and heat up a barrel fast).

In ROI, is it very humid? I would think you would have a much lower temperature there, faster cooling recovery time.

One shot on kill

We're just out the far side of a serious heat wave at 28 degrees and the country nearly shut down and went to the beach.

A bit colder than over there I would imagine. The other nit I fire a 3 shot group straight back to 200 and another 3 shot group which was alot looser just wondering would any off it have to do with heat in the barrel.

Or how many rounds generally would it start effecting accuracy prob a but more I presume.

EWQuinn

Generally, when the barrel gets too hot to touch its too hot. That is when I definitely stop to rest, and also often coincides (more or less) with a change in point of impact in some rifles. I try not to let it ever get to that point.

This weekend I had a military surplus gun out banging the steel gong at 200 yd, alternating shooting positions, getting rid of some corrosive ammo. Suddenly it stopped hitting. The barrel was very hot, too hot to touch, and it had changed point of impact (no movement of the sights). After a cooling down period, everything back to normal.

You also have to make sure the action screws remain snug. On the higher end rifles it should not be a problem, but you never know when some screws may loosen up.

How many rounds can the barrel take before carbon or copper affect accuracy? That one really is dependent upon the rifle and the ammo. For sighting in and grouping only, I would not think you would have enough shots to make a difference.