Recording nuisance minors

OldNotWIse

Does anyone know of any legislation governing the recording of nuisance minors for the purposes of reporting to premises management company? Long story short, neighbours children constantly breaking appartment complex rules and making life miserable for adult residents there. Is it illegal to record these incidents (skateboarding/cycling/ball playing etc) to send on to the management company? If recording is of communal area where there would not be a reasonable expectation of privacy, and made from private home? The only legislation I could find just covered recording in performing arts etc/

foggy_lad

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Does anyone know of any legislation governing the recording of nuisance minors for the purposes of reporting to premises management company? Long story short, neighbours children constantly breaking appartment complex rules and making life miserable for adult residents there. Is it illegal to record these incidents (skateboarding/cycling/ball playing etc) to send on to the management company? If recording is of communal area where there would not be a reasonable expectation of privacy, and made from private home? The only legislation I could find just covered recording in performing arts etc/

There is usually a clause in most leases which restrict you from recording any part of your complex from your own apartment or from using recording equipment in any part of the complex without the permission of the management company. you should report the nuscience to the management company and ask them if you can gather evidence by way of recording the behaviour.

OldNotWIse

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is usually a clause in most leases which restrict you from recording any part of your complex from your own apartment or from using recording equipment in any part of the complex without the permission of the management company. you should report the nuscience to the management company and ask them if you can gather evidence by way of recording the behaviour.

ok thanks, will check lease later

foggy_lad

OldNotWIse wrote: »

ok thanks, will check lease later

Have you tried telling them to stop and if that fails report them to the management company? you are allowed keep notes of the disturbances so keep a notebook handy and note down all instances.

OldNotWIse

foggy_lad wrote: »

Have you tried telling them to stop and if that fails report them to the management company? you are allowed keep notes of the disturbances so keep a notebook handy and note down all instances.

Yes have asked them almost every second day to stop. Have reported them to management, who have sent letters to parents which have been ignored. A letter put up (not by me) on a communal noticeboard was taken down and destroyed. Aside from the intense annoyance of the whole thing, its also a safety issue. They go up and down a ramp in the complex on bikes and scooters which ends off as a kind of blindspot right beside the main car entrance. One of these days one of them will go right under a car Also destroying trees and plants in the area, terrorising pets and caught one of them scaling our balcony a while back. The mother is a piece of work, came banging on the door more or less accusing me of being a pervert for recording her brats

foggy_lad

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yes have asked them almost every second day to stop. Have reported them to management, who have sent letters to parents which have been ignored. A letter put up (not by me) on a communal noticeboard was taken down and destroyed. Aside from the intense annoyance of the whole thing, its also a safety issue. They go up and down a ramp in the complex on bikes and scooters which ends off as a kind of blindspot right beside the main car entrance. One of these days one of them will go right under a car Also destroying trees and plants in the area, terrorising pets and caught one of them scaling our balcony a while back. The mother is a piece of work, came banging on the door more or less accusing me of being a pervert for recording her brats

take notes of every time they are there, times dates and the number of them and what they are doing. pass copies of this to the management company every week or two weeks and remind them of their obligations towards you and their obligation regarding the anti social behaviour.

djimi

I would tread very carefully when it comes to taking pictures/videos of kids to be honest...

OldNotWIse

djimi wrote: »

I would tread very carefully when it comes to taking pictures/videos of kids to be honest...

Yeah I'm kind of regretting it now. I just got so angry with the whole thing, months of compaining etc and nothing done, so I figured if I got proof of them breaking the rules of the complex then something would have to be done. Of course now I may have simply given the mother a stick to beat me with

Pawwed Rig

djimi wrote: »

I would tread very carefully when it comes to taking pictures/videos of kids to be honest...

I don't see why. If you are recording anti social behaviour in a public space then there should be no reason to be careful.

Gatling

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't see why. If you are recording anti social behaviour in a public space then there should be no reason to be careful.

In this day and age all it takes is a rumor and and a life is ruined ,
I'd thread very careful where minors are concerned

Pawwed Rig

That is part of the problem. Everyone is treading carefully and noone does anything about the little s***s. I would film away. If I heard of a rumour about myself they would be quickly receiving a letter about slander from my solicitor.

Should we discuss the mosquito again??;)

Gatling

Playing is a carpark isn't exactly antisocial behavior ,
Is there any other tenants /owners backing up claims

Pawwed Rig

Gatling wrote: »

Playing is a carpark isn't exactly antisocial behavior ,
Is there any other tenants /owners backing up claims

That is a fair point actually.
Obviously scaling the balcony is not on and if you had it on camera then you could use it to inform the Gardai but I can't see anyone being too worried about kids playing.

Gatling

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That is a fair point actually.
Obviously scaling the balcony is not on and if you had it on camera then you could use it to inform the Gardai but I can't see anyone being too worried about kids playing.

A -total ejit to risk his life to climbing the balcony the Gardai won't exactly do much in that type of situation
I'm sure the management company would take likely to getting sued by some ejits mother ,

djimi

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That is part of the problem. Everyone is treading carefully and noone does anything about the little s***s. I would film away. If I heard of a rumour about myself they would be quickly receiving a letter about slander from my solicitor.

Should we discuss the mosquito again??;)

Suing for slander is not going to do any good when it gets out that you have been seen taking pictures/videos of children. In this day and age it is a very stupid thing to risk doing; no matter how innocent it might be or what the situation, it is not worth the potential fallout.

OldNotWIse

Gatling wrote: »

Playing is a carpark isn't exactly antisocial behavior ,
Is there any other tenants /owners backing up claims

Its not a car park its a communal garden area for resident's quiet enjoyment. It's actually against the complex rules for them even to be there unsupervised. It's against the rules for them to be playing ball too. There are others who have complained too - the first time I called the management company I heard something along the lines of "ah yes, those kids again". Perfectly good park around the corner, never seen them in it. Mother prefers to turf them out and treat the garden as a playground. Someone else left up a note a while ago about them, that was removed.

djimi

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Its not a car park its a communal garden area for resident's quiet enjoyment. It's actually against the complex rules for them even to be there unsupervised. It's against the rules for them to be playing ball too. There are others who have complained too - the first time I called the management company I heard something along the lines of "ah yes, those kids again". Perfectly good park around the corner, never seen them in it. Mother prefers to turf them out and treat the garden as a playground. Someone else left up a note a while ago about them, that was removed.

If its against the rules then keep barraging the management company with calls, emails and letters until they get it sorted.

OldNotWIse

djimi wrote: »

Suing for slander is not going to do any good when it gets out that you have been seen taking pictures/videos of children. In this day and age it is a very stupid thing to risk doing; no matter how innocent it might be or what the situation, it is not worth the potential fallout.

Yeah thats what I'm worried about! Mud sticks and all that

Gatling

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Its not a car park its a communal garden area for resident's quiet enjoyment. It's actually against the complex rules for them even to be there unsupervised. It's against the rules for them to be playing ball too. There are others who have complained too - the first time I called the management company I heard something along the lines of "ah yes, those kids again". Perfectly good park around the corner, never seen them in it. Mother prefers to turf them out and treat the garden as a playground. Someone else left up a note a while ago about them, that was removed.

They live there so there entitled to use the space as you stated above for residents (quite) enjoyment, sounds like the management company don't see much of an issue

OldNotWIse

Gatling wrote: »

They live there so there entitled to use the space as you stated above for residents (quite) enjoyment, sounds like the management company don't see much of an issue

The complex rules specifically state that children are not allowed in the communal area unsupervised, so regardless of whether or not they live there, they are still breaking the rules. Management are constantly sending out letters, and have said in the past that they would press for evictions if we named those involved. At the time I didn't as I was afraid of the backlash tbh

Gatling

OldNotWIse wrote: »

The complex rules specifically state that children are not allowed in the communal area unsupervised, so regardless of whether or not they live there, they are still breaking the rules. Management are constantly sending out letters, and have said in the past that they would press for evictions if we named those involved. At the time I didn't as I was afraid of the backlash tbh

That's just nit picking ,
Imagine the same kids stuck inside playing because complaint's about them playing outside ,
I'm sure people would complain even more ,

OldNotWIse

Gatling wrote: »

That's just nit picking ,
Imagine the same kids stuck inside playing because complaint's about them playing outside ,
I'm sure people would complain even more ,

Er...no...those are the rules.

OldNotWIse

I wonder if its not too late to talk to her, though she'd probably take the head off me if I knocked on her door... Seems ridiculous at this stage.

djimi

What issues exactly are they causing by playing in the area? Are they causing damage? Banging balls off your windows etc?

OldNotWIse

djimi wrote: »

What issues exactly are they causing by playing in the area? Are they causing damage? Banging balls off your windows etc?

The noise is the worst I suppose. Of course we dont expect complete silence, there is give and take and general apartment living means there's always coming and going and whatnot. But their noise levels are unbelievable. In fact, it defies logic how things so small can make so much noise It was particularly bad during the fine spell. We couldnt even leave the balcony door open in the heat because the noise levels were so high. There is the constant going up and down the ramp outside on skateboards and scooters which is also noisy. They jam open the fire doors so they can come in and out. I dont mind that so much as we're not near the corridors but I have spoken to other residents who have complained about them running up and down stairwells and corridors, banging on doors etc. We haven't experienced this. They have destroyed some of the shrubs outside by kicking balls into them, and climbing the trees. They often kick balls into parked cars etc (as spaces are organised around the green). Again, our parking is underground so not a direct issue for us but for others.

djimi

Sounds like you need to get the management company to pull the finger out and get it sorted. Sending letters is obviously not doing the trick.

sheesh

yes kids playing unsupervised is a breach of the apartment block rules which is a breach of contract. Do you know if the family in question are tenents or owner occupiers? if tenents you through the managment company can threaten the owner with breach of contract. Its your space too. could you afford a solicitors letter to the managment company. This is one of the things you are paying them for.

OldNotWIse

djimi wrote: »

Sounds like you need to get the management company to pull the finger out and get it sorted. Sending letters is obviously not doing the trick.

Tempted to move at this stage, but the rent is so reasonable (and looking around, is it just me or have rents gone up??)

No Pants

OldNotWIse wrote: »

caught one of them scaling our balcony a while back.

I'd find myself with a basin of water that I just had to throw out the window...

Pawwed Rig

I find myself caught in 2 minds on this one. On one hand I can see it is annoying you whereas on the other I think the kids should have a right to play in the open spaces (why else are they for after all).

It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

StillWaters

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

Absolutely. Whilst Council flats are normally designed with children in mind, the private complexes were not. They will have to adapt though as families are stuck there unable to move on, and compromises and common sense approaches will have to be adopted.

Gatling

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I find myself caught in 2 minds on this one. On one hand I can see it is annoying you whereas on the other I think the kids should have a right to play in the open spaces (whay else are they for after all).

It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

There you go ,
The kids have a right to play house rules or not,
they live there too especially if its day time and its decent weather ,
Telling another tenant there kids shouldnt play in the own complex is childish in itself in my opinion ,
This is why I hate the idea tenants can't be part of an apartment complex residents association ,
Rather than owners only board of management it would solve a lot of misunderstanding that currently happen all over the country

Ive never heard of management seeking eviction over kids playing in there own complex ,
Unless serious antisocial behaviour is been recorded

foggy_lad

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I find myself caught in 2 minds on this one. On one hand I can see it is annoying you whereas on the other I think the kids should have a right to play in the open spaces (why else are they for after all).

It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

But they are not open spaces from what I have read but a garden of sorts for residents to sit or stroll and relax in peace and quiet. having a number of noisy children or teens in this space will never end well.

Del2005

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Tempted to move at this stage, but the rent is so reasonable (and looking around, is it just me or have rents gone up??)

You need to start hounding your LL as the management company can't deal with you. Keep a record of the issues and keep passing them to your LL to pass on.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I find myself caught in 2 minds on this one. On one hand I can see it is annoying you whereas on the other I think the kids should have a right to play in the open spaces (why else are they for after all).

There's a park around the corner, most complexes aren't designed with children's games in mind as the complex isn't solely for children.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

The builders stuck a play area onto the complex next to mine. It's been locked since the day they snuck it in. The insurance for it was way to much for the management company and the builder refuses to demolish it. So now we have a locked play area which can only be accessed by older kids for other uses.

The reason why they have play grounds in council flat areas is because the people who use it aren't the ones liable for claims, we all are.

OldNotWIse

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I find myself caught in 2 minds on this one. On one hand I can see it is annoying you whereas on the other I think the kids should have a right to play in the open spaces (why else are they for after all).

It is a shame that private apartments do not have the play areas that you see in so many of the council flat complexes.

Plenty of apartment complexes do, in fact there is one about a 3 minute walk from us that has a playground. I'm pretty sure when the parents moved in there, they were informed of the compelx rules. The garden is small and well tended with shrubbery etc and really doesn't lend itself to football etc, and as I already mentioned, they are putting themselves in danger on the ramp. Much as they irritate me, I dont particularly want any of them rolling under a car. Of course a certain level of noise is to be expected, but these kids are super loud. I nearly had a nervous breakdown during my exams, and had to buy ear plugs to study with My OH is from Brazil and the complexes there that I saw were amazing. Huge play areas, a pool and usually a "social area" that residents can book in advance for parties etc. Noise down at ten and off at midnight but great for kids parties or BBQ's etc. Of course they pay huge maintenance fees for these facilities but definitely worth it I think

OldNotWIse

Gatling wrote: »

There you go ,
The kids have a right to play house rules or not,
they live there too especially if its day time and its decent weather ,
Telling another tenant there kids shouldnt play in the own complex is childish in itself in my opinion ,
This is why I hate the idea tenants can't be part of an apartment complex residents association ,
Rather than owners only board of management it would solve a lot of misunderstanding that currently happen all over the country

Ive never heard of management seeking eviction over kids playing in there own complex ,
Unless serious antisocial behaviour is been recorded

Yes they have a right to play, and I believe that is not being disputed. But the rules say they are supposed to be supervised. Even overlooking that (because lets face it we would all let our kids out unsupervised while we try to get a bit of work/housework done, myself included), it's the noise levels that are the issue. Telling someone else to just deal with the noise because "they are children so deal with it" is childish imo. People should have respect for their neighbours, and if more than one person is complaining, perhaps they need to be told to keep it down a bit. The more people that are complaining, the less likely it is that someoone just "has a problem with" your kids.

Management have most definitely said they would "seek to evict" those responsible if the complaints continue. Personally, I've never heard of that either, but I'm just relaying what was said.

_Kaiser_

With regards the filming aspect...

My mother has had lots of problems over the years with antisocial behaviour from minors (more serious than what the OP describes but not enough for the Gardai to actually do anything - assuming they would anyway!)

So CCTV was installed on all corners of the house linked to a 24 hour recording system and while there's were complaints from the parents of the aforementioned little darlings, and the local cops commented on it once or twice, it's still in place and used as evidence whenever a complaint is necessary.

I agree with what people touched on above - this ridiculous (though understandable) fear that adults now have of saying anything to kids these days means that the little scrotes can pretty much get away with anything once they realise it and if the parents do nothing about it. As a result everyone else suffers, a situation that usually escalates as they get older too.

All thanks to more PC do-goodery, scare-mongering cr@p - not everyone is a potential child abuser, despite what certain sections of the media might tell you.

OldNotWIse

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

With regards the filming aspect...

My mother has had lots of problems over the years with antisocial behaviour from minors (more serious than what the OP describes but not enough for the Gardai to actually do anything - assuming they would anyway!)

So CCTV was installed on all corners of the house linked to a 24 hour recording system and while there's were complaints from the parents of the aforementioned little darlings, and the local cops commented on it once or twice, it's still in place and used as evidence whenever a complaint is necessary.

I agree with what people touched on above - this ridiculous (though understandable) fear that adults now have of saying anything to kids these days means that the little scrotes can pretty much get away with anything once they realise it and if the parents do nothing about it. As a result everyone else suffers, a situation that usually escalates as they get older too.

All thanks to more PC do-goodery, scare-mongering cr@p - not everyone is a potential child abuser, despite what certain sections of the media might tell you.

True enough, though I suspect she knows she has nothing to fear on that front. In fact, she has berated them in earshot before about making noise, she knows what the problem is. I suspect the reaction is simply a manifestation of her fear that now we actually have proof, something might be done. The fact of course that she has now verbally attacked me in front of one of her children means that he will have zero respect for anyone who asks him to keep it down.