Grey Partridge Wanted

KE_MAN

I am looking for someone who can supply Grey Partridge ? Poults or mature birds. I am looking to release them on family farm which is a Wildlife Sanctuary. Any advise would be most welcome.

wildfowler94

KE_MAN wrote: »

I am looking for someone who can supply Grey Partridge ? Poults or mature birds. I am looking to release them on family farm which is a Wildlife Sanctuary. Any advise would be most welcome.

Bad idea mate unless you have the right habitat and serious vermin control

Stonehall9

Tough goin they are to manage apparently, a lad who works in one of limericks best funded sanctuarys , got permission to rear and build up numbers of greys a few years back but just couldn't get them to survive, and they put a lot of work into them.

Capercaille

I think that unless you source wild bred birds you are wasting your time.

dto001

Try the irish grey partridge conservation (cant remember the exact name google it)they will give you all the info you need and as far as I know they might be able to supply you with birds.

TriggerPL

Enough said

.223forme

dont like the sound of 'wildlife sanctuary'...usually means even the serious predators aren't culled,,if you've any hope of a project like this working ,you need to hammer the vermin!!

richiedel123

KE_MAN wrote: »

I am looking for someone who can supply Grey Partridge ? Poults or mature birds. I am looking to release them on family farm which is a Wildlife Sanctuary. Any advise would be most welcome.

Why grey partridge? Would you not try red leg first as they are easier work with and breed better than Grey's. At least you know if it works wit the red leg it could work with grey

Capercaille

richiedel123 wrote: »

Why grey partridge? Would you not try red leg first as they are easier work with and breed better than Grey's. At least you know if it works wit the red leg it could work with grey

Probably because Grey partridge are a native species while Red legged partridge are an alien species.

richiedel123

Capercaille wrote: »

Probably because Grey partridge are a native species while Red legged partridge are an alien species.

But if he never done it before he would be as well off try red leg as everything about them is easier and it would be a great starting point

TriggerPL

richiedel123 wrote: »

But if he never done it before he would be as well off try red leg as everything about them is easier and it would be a great starting point

No he wouldn't red leg are native to south of France and our climate would kill them in a month with the drastic tempeture changes we get .

Depending where he live in Ireland and full time managmant of the lad greys would survive , but big investment and time needed

Half-cocked

Greys used to survive just fine in this country without hammering predators - it was when we destroyed their habitat that they disappeared.

TriggerPL

Half-cocked wrote: »

Greys used to survive just fine in this country without hammering predators - it was when we destroyed their habitat that they disappeared.

Yea and no ! Yes modern farming is a huge part of there decline if not the direct cause .

But in the old days pinemartin were not plenty full , mink were just in farms foxs were shot out of a face because they were worth money . Predator got hammering and raptors were not safe either !!

Capercaille

TriggerPL wrote: »

No he wouldn't red leg are native to south of France and our climate would kill them in a month with the drastic tempeture changes we get .

Depending where he live in Ireland and full time managmant of the lad greys would survive , but big investment and time needed

Red legged partridge introduced to UK with main population in Southern England, but there are populations (self sustaining) in Scotland. If they can survive Scotland they would survive here. I believe there are self sustaining population in the North.

Birdnuts

The OP should make the relatively short trip to Boora Co.Offaly to see the set-up there in terms of the work needed to re-establish a viable population. The head keeper and the rest of the lads at Boora are dead sound and always up for a chat. Its certainly an eye-opener to see the amount of cover crops, wildflower strips etc. needed for these birds.

As for Red-legged Partridges, I did encounter some in my youth(70's,80@s) when I was a member of a local GC near Kill, Co. Kildare. But even here despite a decent amount of tillage and being one of the drier parts of the country, they didn't really thrive and soon died out. One bad spring/summer will wipe out any breeding attempts as what happened with the Grey Partridges in Fingal last year. I think the dampness of the Irish climate(most of Eastern Scotland is actually a good deal drier than here) really doesn't suit those less hardier French Red legs.

mallards

Capercaille wrote: »

Red legged partridge introduced to UK with main population in Southern England, but there are populations (self sustaining) in Scotland. If they can survive Scotland they would survive here. I believe there are self sustaining population in the North.

Up in Glenarm on the north east coast has them. I've seen broods myself up there, well away from the large shoot in that area. I've also had broods of both greys and reds these past couple of years up here in Tyrone. The reds have been more successful but only because most of the greys you buy on the island are decendants of dutch/hungarian stock bred for generations for their egg laying ability rather than their ability to survive in the wild. I read a good article in the shooting times a few weeks ago where they said to over winter pairs together in small netted partridge pens. Let them breed and incubate in the pen the following spring but hold the covey back to the august of the year before releasing them as a group. I'd like to try this myself as well as boost the numbers in the following year by adopting poults to any barren pairs to the original group. But as others have said the habitat has to be right and predator control in place. Partridges have always had to deal with predators but not in the numbers you currently find them at.
Mallards

Birdnuts

mallards wrote: »

Up in Glenarm on the north east coast has them. I've seen broods myself up there, well away from the large shoot in that area. I've also had broods of both greys and reds these past couple of years up here in Tyrone. The reds have been more successful but only because most of the greys you buy on the island are decendants of dutch/hungarian stock bred for generations for their egg laying ability rather than their ability to survive in the wild. I read a good article in the shooting times a few weeks ago where they said to over winter pairs together in small netted partridge pens. Let them breed and incubate in the pen the following spring but hold the covey back to the august of the year before releasing them as a group. I'd like to try this myself as well as boost the numbers in the following year by adopting poults to any barren pairs to the original group. But as others have said the habitat has to be right and predator control in place. Partridges have always had to deal with predators but not in the numbers you currently find them at.
Mallards

Some good points there. The stock at Boora were sourced from the wild in Eastern Europe, which obviously helps them survive. Also having a professional team of keepers that can do round the clock, fox, mink and corvid control is important for such a small population. This along with extensive habitat management makes for a significant financial outlay that is probably beyond the abilities of most GCs in the country.

mallards

Yes I think the greys from the irish grey partridge project are crosses of pure wild irish and hungarian stock. The majority of the birds you can buy here are from these game farmed birds and I wouldn't put too much hope in them surviving past their first year in the wild. The second and third generation of these released birds will be the future of any self sustaining wild stock but as you say birdnuts, most gameclubs won't put in that sort of effort for years on end just to get to a point where a pair or two are rearing their own broods. Still, theres nothing like a starburst of greys flushed by your dog!

Capercaille

mallards wrote: »

Yes I think the greys from the irish grey partridge project are crosses of pure wild irish and hungarian stock. The majority of the birds you can buy here are from these game farmed birds and I wouldn't put too much hope in them surviving past their first year in the wild. The second and third generation of these released birds will be the future of any self sustaining wild stock but as you say birdnuts, most gameclubs won't put in that sort of effort for years on end just to get to a point where a pair or two are rearing their own broods. Still, theres nothing like a starburst of greys flushed by your dog!

The grey partridge in Lough Boora are crosses of the remnant Irish birds and estonian birds. There wer insufficient birds left in the Irish population for a viable population. The birds from Estonia were the nearest genetically to the Irish birds that is why they were chosen rather than any other population of Grey partridge.

richiedel123

TriggerPL wrote: »

No he wouldn't red leg are native to south of France and our climate would kill them in a month with the drastic tempeture changes we get .

Depending where he live in Ireland and full time managmant of the lad greys would survive , but big investment and time needed

I have had and released red leg for the past 2 years and find they survive well. I have released them in areas and they survived till this year from last year. Only problem is they tend to ramble seen 1 of my tagged birds about 5-6 miles from one my release areas

ace86

Capercaille wrote: »

The grey partridge in Lough Boora are crosses of the remnant Irish birds and estonian birds. There wer insufficient birds left in the Irish population for a viable population. The birds from Estonia were the nearest genetically to the Irish birds that is why they were chosen rather than any other population of Grey partridge.

Have numbers in Boora hit 1000 or so in the last year or two I read somewhere?

TriggerPL

richiedel123 wrote: »

I have had and released red leg for the past 2 years and find they survive well. I have released them in areas and they survived till this year from last year. Only problem is they tend to ramble seen 1 of my tagged birds about 5-6 miles from one my release areas

So how many have you released , any way of proving that there population is holding or increasing , we release 100 red leg partridge as part of our gun club dog trails to be hunted up , with feeders out and extensive vermin control , and there is never an increase , and rarely seen the year later , at that with a whole club looking after it .

As for the red partridge in England if you look more into it thousands of these birds are released every year . So many in fack that they don't worrie about predators because they could never bring the numbers down , and there managed too not left to fend for them selves .

If capercaillie are dwindling in Scotland and there native what makes you think with out management they can survive !

Capercaille

TriggerPL wrote: »

So how many have you released , any way of proving that there population is holding or increasing , we release 100 red leg partridge as part of our gun club dog trails to be hunted up , with feeders out and extensive vermin control , and there is never an increase , and rarely seen the year later , at that with a whole club looking after it .

As for the red partridge in England if you look more into it thousands of these birds are released every year . So many in fack that they don't worrie about predators because they could never bring the numbers down , and there managed too not left to fend for them selves .

If capercaillie are dwindling in Scotland and there native what makes you think with out management they can survive !

Red legged Partridge breed in lowland farmland which there is an abundance in the UK. Capercaillie breed primarily in Caledonian pine forest which there isn't a lot of and have major problem with deer fences and small predators due mainly to fragmented habitat

Capercaille

ace86 wrote: »

Have numbers in Boora hit 1000 or so in the last year or two I read somewhere?

I think 1000 would be the autumn count, including breeding adults, non breeding adult and juveniles. A more accurate number is the breeding pairs which is around 80-100 (open to correction).

TriggerPL

Capercaille wrote: »

Red legged Partridge breed in lowland farmland which there is an abundance in the UK. Capercaillie breed primarily in Caledonian pine forest which there isn't a lot of and have major problem with deer fences and small predators due mainly to fragmented habitat

The point I was trying to make was that with out the release of thousands of partridge and management where would they be , u can't just release there birds and expect them to survive it a reserve with out management and in that way will never be wild !