Leaving Cert English Comparative 2015

leogave1

Hi all,
Just wondering what comparative texts you are thinking of studying with your 5th years this year?

I'm not too happy with the film choices on offer this year so am thinking of omitting a film, however studying a film can be a nice break for the students. I really enjoyed reading 'The Road' and also 'Never Let Me Go' so am thinking of covering one of these as I think the students will enjoy them. I am finding having so much choice difficult as it is hard to choose three good texts to link together and I'm always reluctant to cover the texts in the KeyNotes book so would be keen to hear views from other teachers!

allprops

I love McCarthy but sometimes teaching a book that you really love can not work out. I think that not enough happens in The Road.
I'm going to do All My Sons, which goes against all I've said above but it went down well with my 2014's. 'I'm not scared' is very straightforward but has enough. I also think I'll do New Town Soul by Dermot Bolger.
Two of the best texts that I have used in the last couple of years have been The Kite Runner and The Book Thief but they've disappeared.

implausible

leogave1 wrote: »

Hi all,
Just wondering what comparative texts you are thinking of studying with your 5th years this year?

I'm not too happy with the film choices on offer this year so am thinking of omitting a film, however studying a film can be a nice break for the students. I really enjoyed reading 'The Road' and also 'Never Let Me Go' so am thinking of covering one of these as I think the students will enjoy them. I am finding having so much choice difficult as it is hard to choose three good texts to link together and I'm always reluctant to cover the texts in the KeyNotes book so would be keen to hear views from other teachers!

Debating this one myself at the moment - the only two films that are teachable and or/appealing to 16 year olds are 'I'm Not Scared' and 'The King's Speech' and you're right, studying a film is a nice change for the students and mine would probably feel short-changed if they didn't do it.

I did Gatsby this year and my class lapped it up, it's a great novel with plenty of themes to pick from and the cultural context is very interesting for them - the bling, the inequality, the "careless people"....

As for the play "All My Sons" is very bleak, "Translations" hard to teach, I've been over-exposed to O'Casey and I must take a look at "Our Town". I'd love any suggestions about the plays on the list.

I usually avoid Keynotes too, but when it comes to connecting texts, I must admit that I don't work out the links in advance; I might have a very rough idea to begin with, but usually the connections come to me and the class as we're covering the text e.g. they might have notes on gender roles in Gatsby in their copies and when they're studying the second text, they look back and compare.

I wasn't mad about The Road myself, too bleak for me, so it would really depend on the class group.

leogave1

Great to hear from you both...I must check out 'New Town' too!

Have to say Im disappointed with the film options for the 5th years this year. It's such a pity that some of the newer texts just aren't up to scratch when compared with the texts that have been omitted. Some of the texts (Especially the films) just won't grab a lot of 16year olds. I have to say the students in my class absolutely loved Casablanca and not that I want to do this again but to replace it with Bladerunner etc., is just such a pity. I would love some 'meaty' films that would get the students interested and talking...Schlinders List, Once, A Beautiful Mind, Blood Diamond, Forrest Gump.
I'm Not Scared is an option and I still have yet to watch Garage and will hopefully watch it in the coming days so fingers crossed I will be inspired!

You are right that The Road is bleak but I think the unusual style might get their attention but again it is a risky one. I do usually like to try new texts out TYs first so might think about this option. I studied A Dolls House last year with TYs and they really enjoyed it so perhaps this is an option too!

....too many choices!!

It's great to hear your thoughts so keep them coming!

thefasteriwalk

I did Garage with an OL rural 5th year group this year. They really loved it. They could really relate to the social setting and most of them empathised with Shortt's character. That said, one of the HL groups did it too and I'm told they didn't enjoy it at all.

You all may have read/considered it already but if not Foster is a good one to check out. It's a short story, so it might help with time constraints. It's quite short too so can be easily photocopied, saving student costs. I've done it with TYs before and it went down well. You can read the entire story here: http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/02/15/100215fi_fiction_keegan#ixzz0ggBWhCu8

spurious

'Garage' is a fantastic film, on so many levels. Delighted your kids liked it. I must suggest it to one of my colleagues.

leogave1

Great link to 'Foster', thanks thefasteriwalk!

allprops

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

I did Garage with an OL rural 5th year group this year. They really loved it. They could really relate to the social setting and most of them empathised with Shortt's character. That said, one of the HL groups did it too and I'm told they didn't enjoy it at all.

You all may have read/considered it already but if not Foster is a good one to check out. It's a short story, so it might help with time constraints. It's quite short too so can be easily photocopied, saving student costs. I've done it with TYs before and it went down well. You can read the entire story here: http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/02/15/100215fi_fiction_keegan#ixzz0ggBWhCu8

Two things about this, firstly Clare Keegan is a working writer, striving to make a living, photocopying her work is a little dubious to say the least. I can understand photocopying short extracts from big publishers but from an up and coming Irish writer who is getting a break by being put on the LC syllabus probably shouldn't be exploited.
Secondly, she republished it as a slightly longer novella, you would want to be completely clear which version the Department want. This could be very important with LIT GEN on the course this year. Best of luck getting information from the department themselves.
I wanted to do Blade Runner last year and asked them which cut was required and they said whichever you wanted.

leogave1

Good point Allprops.

I wouldn't dream of photocopying a whole short story for the class but its great to have the link to have a quick read of this version. The link is a different version to the recently published novella but I tried three bookshops at the beginning of summer to buy this book along with a few of the other comparatives I was unfamiliar with and couldn't get Foster. (Had other books which is why I didn't order it on Amazon) Ill read this slightly different version and if I think the girls will like it, Ill order a class set of the longer adapted version from publisher.

Did you watch Bladerunner with your class in the end? Don't think it would appeal to my girls but would be keen to hear how it went for you?

implausible

allprops wrote: »

Two things about this, firstly Clare Keegan is a working writer, striving to make a living, photocopying her work is a little dubious to say the least. I can understand photocopying short extracts from big publishers but from an up and coming Irish writer who is getting a break by being put on the LC syllabus probably shouldn't be exploited.
Secondly, she republished it as a slightly longer novella, you would want to be completely clear which version the Department want. This could be very important with LIT GEN on the course this year. Best of luck getting information from the department themselves.
I wanted to do Blade Runner last year and asked them which cut was required and they said whichever you wanted.

Agreed.

The Dept. could be more specific, but when it comes down to it, the SEC will not care which version. It's highly improbable that the examiners will be 100% familiar with all of the texts when marking the comparative. Not that it's all about the exam.

Did you do Blade Runner, how did you find teaching it?

allprops

Lead Balloon. I love the movie so much and I got so little reaction that I abandoned ship, or spacecraft if you will. I've never walked away from a text before but it was a real case of walking away from it after three to four classes. They were just not getting it at all and they are not the worst class in the world at all. They loved 'I'm Not Scared'. They also loved Sister's Keeper and I have to admit that I am not the greatest Jodi Picoult fan. However, she is an excellent craftsperson. I used the two of them with All My Sons. There are so many crossovers that they they work really well together, Family, Morality, difficult choices, pride. They all deal with themin interesting but different ways. They all threw up great classes and genuine debate.
But unfortunately, to my shame Blade Runner just never worked for me.

leogave1

That's a pity it didn't work out. I can understand that a lot of students may not like Blade Runner considering the special effects in today's films tend to be just as important if not more important than plot and Blade Runner would appear dated for the students. I absolutely hate it when a text I enjoy doesn't appeal to the students. I remember teaching Dracula to TYs a few years ago when the whole Twilight and vampire obsession began and the students absolutely HATED it...it was torture! Ah well...I learned my lesson that year! A trip to Stoker's Museum and the Ghost Bus Tour was the only way I could redeem myself and the text in their eyes!

This may end up being the first year I omit a film but I am considering I'm Not Scared or Garage.

I usually study the theme of love in texts as it is very easy to structure an essay and students tend to enjoy discussing the power love has to change the individual characters. However this year I'm considering the theme of parenthood or family as I think it might generate good discussion and they can obviously relate the texts to their own personal experiences. However the portrayal of women is also an option as I'm a huge fan of A Doll's House and it went down a treat with previous TYs.

I really want to find three texts that really grab their attention. So few students read for pleasure and I've found it remarkable that when I go into a 5th year group a lot of them say that the only novel/play they have read is their Junior Cert novel. The texts I have studied before with groups have encouraged some to pick up a second book by one of their authors, so fingers crossed these 2015 texts will do the same.


...the search (and reading!) continues...

thefasteriwalk

allprops wrote: »

Secondly, she republished it as a slightly longer novella, you would want to be completely clear which version the Department want. This could be very important with LIT GEN on the course this year. Best of luck getting information from the department themselves.
I wanted to do Blade Runner last year and asked them which cut was required and they said whichever you wanted.

A few of the other 2014 cohort have already done it as part of their comparative. The relevant teachers have clarified that the short story is fine. So I am 'completely clear'.

allprops

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

A few of the other 2014 cohort have already done it as part of their comparative. The relevant teachers have clarified that the short story is fine. So I am 'completely clear'.

Excellent! Best of luck. It's a great story. Only trying to be helpful.

Hermia

I did Garage and Translations with my mixed ability 5th years this year; they loved Garage but weren't major fans of Friel, although we went to see it and they understood it a lot better obviously. Good to deal with the themes of the outsider and identity. I did The Road with my TYs this year and incorporated a post apocalypse project that they had to do in pairs as a pre-reading exercise. Sounds a bit morbid but they had to decide what catastrophe had occurred, who had survived, how the environment had changed etc. They had to write diary entries, newspaper articles, safety leaflets etc. I showed them an episode of "Doomsday Preppers" to get them in the mindset too, they really enjoyed it. They seemed to empathise more with the characters. There was a split down the class between those who loved and hated the book though.

leogave1

Hermia wrote: »

I did Garage and Translations with my mixed ability 5th years this year; they loved Garage but weren't major fans of Friel, although we went to see it and they understood it a lot better obviously. Good to deal with the themes of the outsider and identity. I did The Road with my TYs this year and incorporated a post apocalypse project that they had to do in pairs as a pre-reading exercise. Sounds a bit morbid but they had to decide what catastrophe had occurred, who had survived, how the environment had changed etc. They had to write diary entries, newspaper articles, safety leaflets etc. I showed them an episode of "Doomsday Preppers" to get them in the mindset too, they really enjoyed it. They seemed to empathise more with the characters. There was a split down the class between those who loved and hated the book though.

Thanks so much Hermia, this is really great feedback!

Your ideas for TY are great and it was something along the lines of what I was thinking for TY...in our school we only teach TYs for half of the year and then teach the 2nd TY class the same topic for the second half of the year so at least they wouldn't feel it being too morbid if I tried it with TYs first this year before a LC class.

I take note of half the class loving it and the other half hating it...I do wonder if there is enough happening in the novel to keep their interest but I really feel the closing few pages are real tear jerkers that could bring back those who have lost interest!

Thanks so much Hermia, your feedback on The Road is definitely food for thought.

I covered Translations with a TY group but never a LC class...they enjoyed it but only as we could spend time on it and do lots of games/activities that they wouldn't have had time to do in LC class. I know one 6th yr group in school didn't like it all ("so boring"!!!) so doubt I will cover this!
Thanks again.

Hermia

I love Translations but don't know if I'd do it again, it was tough going, unless you can go and see a performance, my 5th years didn't warm to it much at all. I'd definitely recommend Garage, although they found it very different to films they would usually go and see, Pat Shortt is really great in it and it deals with some really relevant issues in today's society.

leogave1

So I'm torn between:

Theme of Childhood in I'm Not Scared, The Road and Foster

or

Theme of Family in I'm Not Scared, All My Sons and Foster

I'd be covering the GVVP question too.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated...anyone else decided what they are doing?
I was going to go for 'How Many Miles To Babylon' but so many schools seem to answer now so am quite reluctant to cover it.

RH149

Am toying with the idea of doing 'Othello' as part of their comparative ( if I have a Higher Level class) though I've only ever covered Shakespeare as a single text. I'm sure a lot of them will want to do 'The Great Gatsby' too after seeing the film over the Summer but can't see what film I could tie in with those two.......will probably revert to Othello as Single Text . This year's list is a bit frustrating!

leogave1

You could try King Lear as your Shakespeare text in your comparative!
Very easy and loads of themes there to fit in with the other texts

-Violence
-Loyalty and betrayal
-Family
-Kingship
etc....

It is hard to pick texts if you want to study something a little different other than what is studied by teachers in the majority of schools.

Dandy Marsh

I was devastated that Purple Hibiscus disappeared off the list. It's setting and plot really appealed to my girls. A few people have suggested to me that The White Tiger and I'm Not Scared would work well but I'd love to know more about the former.

Crazyteacher

Just read the white tiger. It's ok . I was surprised by the outcome . I suppose the theme of inequality rich vs poor is prevalent, lots of examples to be found. The gv and vp is bleak but it contrasts with the optimism of the boy, almost searching for the American dream. I haven't read I'm scared so not sure this could work for you.

implausible

leogave1 wrote: »

So I'm torn between:

Theme of Childhood in I'm Not Scared, The Road and Foster

or

Theme of Family in I'm Not Scared, All My Sons and Foster

I'd probably go with Family myself as I reckon it's broader and you might get a greater variety of answers on it - what is/isn't a dysfunctional family, loyalty, roles etc. It'd fit in with The Road too.

RH149 wrote: »

Am toying with the idea of doing 'Othello' as part of their comparative ( if I have a Higher Level class) though I've only ever covered Shakespeare as a single text. I'm sure a lot of them will want to do 'The Great Gatsby' too after seeing the film over the Summer but can't see what film I could tie in with those two.......will probably revert to Othello as Single Text . This year's list is a bit frustrating!

Gatsby is great, you could do it as your single text, it's meaty enough. You could go with the theme of love or being an outsider in Othello and compare. My students really enjoyed Brooklyn this year, it's an easy enough read and those themes are there too.

implausible

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Just read the white tiger. It's ok . I was surprised by the outcome . I suppose the theme of inequality rich vs poor is prevalent, lots of examples to be found. The gv and vp is bleak but it contrasts with the optimism of the boy, almost searching for the American dream. I haven't read I'm scared so not sure this could work for you.

There's plenty of inequality in 'I'm Not Scared' too and it has a boy who goes against the immorality and bleakness around him. There is also a stark contrast with the glaring sunshine of the Italian setting and the bleakness of the characters' impoverished lives.

siofraban

Hi all.
I am looking for some advice! I haven't taught honours in a while. Looking forward to it now. For the comparative I am thinking of doing I'm not scared, Foster and how many miles to babylon. Does anyone have any advice for me? Would I be ok in doing these texts?

leogave1

Hi Siofra,

Yes those texts would fit nicely together under the family theme.
There are notes in the Key Notes books down through the years on both I'm Not Scared and HMMTB so you could use those as your guide. I'm doing Foster myself and there doesn't seem to be notes anywhere so I'll have to do these myself.

Good luck...best of luck with all the correcting!!

Lockedout

If any of you do How many miles to Babylon-you should be arrested for child abuse. Have done it for years-avoiding it like the plague now. Mainly did it because of Key notes Blade runner is a good one as is Catcher in the Rye. They tell me this thing called the INTER-NET has a lot of notes on both:eek:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. HMTB. Its a terribly boring book that only a woman who knits and loves Downtown abbey would promote it.;) Same for Brooklyn-a ton of shyte.

Miss Lockhart

While I'm sure the tone of your reply is tongue-in-cheek, I couldn't disagree more. I'm not an English teacher but I loved HMTB when I did it for my Leaving. It was very popular with my friends also. Obviously it's not for everyone but it's a bit much to be so narrow minded as to insult those who enjoy it just because it's not to your taste.

Crazyteacher

HTMB is brilliant, I still like it from my own leaving cert.

siofraban

Thanks leogave! I think ill stick to them three alright. Hours of fun correcting ahead. As regards lockedout's comment.... obviously you dont understand students and what they like. .. let alone good literature!

Lockedout

siofraban wrote: »

Thanks leogave! I think ill stick to them three alright. Hours of fun correcting ahead. As regards lockedout's comment.... obviously you dont understand students and what they like. .. let alone good literature!

Its a well written book but terribly boring. I have never taught a group of boys who liked either book. Once is no harm but I would prefer to lick a toilet clean than read it again! Avoid Avoid. My intention is not to insult anybody who likes this book. Its a personal thing obviously but I have strong doubts about anybody's taste who likes this book! Slagging the literature taste of anybody should never be taken too seriously. Now I need to lie down. Its like reliving a traumatic experience talking about that book.:P

I also think teachers fall into a pattern of using the same texts again and again and again. I am guilty of that offence I admit.

whiteandlight

Guys I haven't read some of these books so I can't comment on content. However could I just remind everyone that they are on the syllabus and as teachers it would be nice to moderate our tone rather than disparaging everyone who uses/likes a particular book.

allprops

I think that there are interesting points raised here. Sometimes a book can suit the course and not be the greatest piece of literature and still work very well in class. Similarly a book that you truly love and that is a great work of literature can be difficult to teach and go down like a lead balloon. Earlier in this thread, I said that I tried to teach Blade Runner, a movie I love and failed. In contrast, I'm not the greatest Jodi Picoult fan but My Sister's Keeper was a great success with my students.

implausible

allprops wrote: »

I think that there are interesting points raised here. Sometimes a book can suit the course and not be the greatest piece of literature and still work very well in class. Similarly a book that you truly love and that is a great work of literature can be difficult to teach and go down like a lead balloon. Earlier in this thread, I said that I tried to teach Blade Runner, a movie I love and failed. In contrast, I'm not the greatest Jodi Picoult fan but My Sister's Keeper was a great success with my students.

Agree 100%, the texts that have gone down well with my classes are often ones I wouldn't be gone on myself - my 5th years loved Brooklyn and any class I ever taught it to really enjoyed HMMB. When the students enjoy and engage with a text, you can find yourself enjoying it too. On the other hand, teaching my favourites has sometimes taken the joy out of it, no matter how much you put into it. A weak LC group I had a few years ago nearly destroyed Wuthering Heights for me.

We sometimes forget who we're teaching when picking the texts.

One thing that I love about the 'new' LC is the fact that the syllabus changes every year and doesn't allow you to do the same ol' reliables.

Lockedout

My apologies if any offence was caused. I was being tongue in cheek.

siofraban

No problem locked out! I can see your point I just didn't like how you phrased your post.

You really have to know your students and pick texts that they might like. But in saying that it can backfire lol. The joys of the job. It's all about trial and error! If anyone has any suggestions of other texts that are on for 2015 please share! I'm open to all suggestions

Lockedout

My kids are so negative about most texts goes down like a lead balloon. I think HMTB is not a bad book but I just did it too many years. Lies of silence was a great text for my lads. I did HMTB too many years and had too much grief over it. Brroklyn though is not a good book for boys. That I can say for definite!

Catcher in the Rye is good for honors. Lots of history ie John lennon's assassin had a copy on him when arrested. Most banned book in US high schools but also most read.

implausible

Lockedout wrote: »

My kids are so negative about most texts goes down like a lead balloon. I think HMTB is not a bad book but I just did it too many years. Lies of silence was a great text for my lads. I did HMTB too many years and had too much grief over it. Brroklyn though is not a good book for boys. That I can say for definite!

Catcher in the Rye is good for honors. Lots of history ie John lennon's assassin had a copy on him when arrested. Most banned book in US high schools but also most read.

Mine loved Lies of Silence too. As for Brooklyn, the lads knew there was a sex scene in it and that alone kept them interested! They also had some interesting views on Eilis 'doing the dirt' on Tony. They were amazed at how awkward communication was, the long sea journey and the involvement of the church in everything, especially sexual morality. They were able to make parallels with the present recession. While I didn't find it that brilliant myself, I have enjoyed teaching it.

leogave1

'Lies of Silence' hasn't been on the course in such a long time...such a great book for teens, it really engages both girls and boys.

Hopefully it will make a comeback...

I really hope my group like The Road...I have to say I really enjoyed it despite it being so dark, but I just loved the closing pages...keeping the fingers crossed that they will like it.

cuppatea

Hi all, So glad to see all of you're thoughts but I'm still in need of help. I have to start work on the comparative almost immediately and I can't seem to choose my texts.

The English department seems firm on film/play/novel, especially with the LG mode and I'm not able to draw the links I have in previous years between any texts. Has anyone made a firm choice yet? I keep switching..I've heard great things about Garage..I'd like to try it as the film but what would it work well with? Any thoughts?

thefasteriwalk

If I was doing Garage this year, I think I'd do it with A Doll's House and Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal? The latter is a really fantastic read, and Jeanette experiences isolation in much the same way as Nora and Josie. There would be plenty of scope for comparative analysis across each mode.

Hermia

cuppatea wrote: »

Hi all, So glad to see all of you're thoughts but I'm still in need of help. I have to start work on the comparative almost immediately and I can't seem to choose my texts.

The English department seems firm on film/play/novel, especially with the LG mode and I'm not able to draw the links I have in previous years between any texts. Has anyone made a firm choice yet? I keep switching..I've heard great things about Garage..I'd like to try it as the film but what would it work well with? Any thoughts?

I did all Irish texts last year with my 5th years so The Sailor in the Wardrobe by Hugo Hamilton and Translations along with Garage, good comparisons in terms of identity (Hugo and his confusion regarding his German/Irish background) and nearly all the characters in Translations, especially Yolland. Good for the theme of isolation too as well as communication issues as all of the characters in all texts have difficulties communicating in some way.
There's a good film guide for Garage by Sean Conlan if you need inspiration as well as a student guide which is worth the investment I think as the kids have a thorough breakdown of sequences. I thought it was a great film but the kids were split down the middle; it was defo a love/hate situation as it's so different to the movies they're used to watching in terms of production.

DrPeadar

Hello All,

Many thanks for all the helpful contributions to the discussion above. I myself am not an English graduate/student/lecturer/teacher, hence why I am here to ask for some advice and 'pick your brains' as it were.
I'm college at the moment myself, a 2009 leaving cert survivor however the true reason for my being here is my wish to help my younger sister with her own English study. I am currently in the final year of my degree and this is my effort at finding a slight shortcut.

I studied Philadelphia, Here I come, The Speckled People and Cinema Paradiso for my English course and the study of the comparative texts appealed greatly to me. This was accentuated by a fantastic teacher, a commodity my sister unfortunately lacks.

As I write this post I have 'The King's Speech' lying beside me. I have watched it many times in a more recreational capacity. My love for film analysis will hopefully bode well for my sister and I in our future discussions however I am not familiar with some of the texts available to choose from on the list.

My question to you all is this; what main themes/points of comparison have been drawn from 'The King's Speech'?

Thank you in advance for your help and also for taking the time to read and respond to my request.

Peadar.

ophelia75

Have an Ordinary level group for English. Mostly lads. Was thinking of doing Blade Runner for the film and maybe 1984 for then novel. What do you think?
Or would I be better doing Catcher In the Rye instead of 1984
Help!!