GFs family are dodgy

zxcvbnm1

I've been dating this girl for the last few months.
She dresses,speaks and appears in all ways very normal. I really like her in every way.

Yet she has mentioned over that time that some of her family (at the very least her uncle,cousin and father) have been involved in EXTREME crime (armed robbery, murder) in the past.

I would be from a typical middle class family - she is English. I have never met her family but in pictures they don't look like typical scumbags. I also do know her father at least now is a successful straight businessman.

I feel I'm pretty much dating meadow from the sopranos.
This is the only thing holding me back. And she knows something is holding me back - she just assumes I don't fancy her enough.

Is this something I can raise with her ? If so, how? (She is a big family person)

Czarcasm

No idea who meadow from the sopranos is, but honestly OP, you're dating her, not her whole family.

If you're that bent out of shape about it then just break up with her and let her be with someone who doesn't judge her based on her family background. She's not involved in any alleged criminal activity, so why shoul you have to care what her extended family get up to?

If you STILL feel like you MUST broach the subject with her, there's no tactful way to ask her about her family's criminal connections, but don't be surprised if she then dumps you for what she might see as you pegging her for guilt by association.

ivytwine

Yep gotta agree with Czarcasm's advice. I have a few 'dodgy' relatives but consider myself a normal, law-abiding citizen. I'd be horrified to think that someone I was going out with was unsure of me because of things my relatives have/haven't done.

You're going out with her, not her family. Granted if she is living off the proceeds of crime or if there was ever a hint of you being dragged into things it would be different. But as it stands, I don't think this is worth throwing a relationship away over.

Chucky the tree

The fact she is a big family person means she obviously has no real issue with how her family behave. I couldn't accept that personally. The situation just sounds like lots of potential hassle down the line.

CaraMay

I dont agree with the above posters. Its her father not distant relations who are criminals...

Can you picture the future with these thugs showing up at your wedding, babys christening, Xmas day etc. Would you like your family to meet these people?

It's fine to keep dating her if its only going to be a but of fun but if you are hoping to meet someone for a long term relationship then maybe, due to circumstances, she is not for you. There is nothing wrong with knowing that you don't want to be part of a criminal family.

Czarcasm

CaraMay wrote: »

I dont agree with the above posters. Its her father not distant relations who are criminals...

Can you picture the future with these thugs showing up at your wedding, babys christening, Xmas day etc. Would you like your family to meet these people?

It's fine to keep dating her if its only going to be a but of fun but if you are hoping to meet someone for a long term relationship then maybe, due to circumstances, she is not for you. There is nothing wrong with knowing that you don't want to be part of a criminal family.

By that same token, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be with someone who judges you not on your own merits, but on the misdeeds of other people over which you have no control.

Hyacinth Bucket much?

mashedbanana

I must admit, I too would be very careful about the whole situation. I know we shouldn't judge, we are who we are. Be that good, or bad. She could very well be the most charming, intelligent sweetheart ever, that won't change the situation though. Yes, it is her you are going out with not her family. But you know yourself, family is family! If you were to settle down with this girl, then her family would then be your family. You really need to ask yourself if you would be comfortable with that.

Your family & hers need not live in each others pockets, but do you think they all could sit for a family meal, every now & again. peacefully? How much influence do you think her family have on her? Would this intensify were you too to get engaged?

If the relationship didn't work out, would you go swimming with the fishes? (okay okay, the last bit was maybe a bit dramatic, but you get the gist)

CaraMay

Czarcasm wrote: »

By that same token, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be with someone who judges you not on your own merits, but on the misdeeds of other people over which you have no control.

Hyacinth Bucket much?

I agree but she isn't on asking for advice, he is...

Yes I would be fussy about not allowing crims into my family. Most people would.

Czarcasm

CaraMay wrote: »

I agree but she isn't on asking for advice, he is...

Yes I would be fussy about not allowing crims into my family. Most people would.

That's true I guess, it'd be silly of me to try and deny it. I guess just from my own experience I would know and associate with many people who would have family members involved in criminal activity. It's more just something I'm aware of rather than something I'd actually judge that person for.

I myself come from a wealthy middle class family who would always try to pass themselves off as upper class. I tend to treat people as individuals, regardless of their background. It's somewhat idealistic and I've been bitten in the ass more times, but then there's the odd exception that makes a person forget all that nonsense and drama.

For instance because of certain choices I made with my life, I was ostracised by my family, and when I met my wife, they dismissed her as a gold digger in the most vitriolic possible terms, because she was unemployed at the time and her family weren't wealthy middle class- they were average middle class.

I was perfectly fine with the fact that my family didn't want to associate with me or my wife or her family (who are actually some of the most down to earth people you could ever meet), and we moved on with our lives.

Then the boom to bust hit my family members hard, and suddenly I was the salt of the earth, and hard as they tried they still couldn't disguise their disdain for my wife. So here they were asking me to bail them out of financial trouble, while at the same time still unable to treat my wife with any degree of respect.

Only one of my brothers has really come round to the idea that I nor my wife are indeed not actually scumbags (it only took him 20 years!), but I think it has more to do with the fact that now that he has his own children, he doesn't want to see the faux-class bitterness carried on into a third generation.

OP seriously, if you actually care about this girl, it won't matter a damn what her family are like, what your family are like, and without jumping the gun here (no pun intended ), but if ye were to have children of ye're own, would you rather they learn to be so judgemental of individuals based on their background and their family, or would you rather they learn to treat people based on their own individual merits or misgivings?


TL;DR: You're only ever likely to be involved with her family for a couple of hours at christenings, weddings and funerals (that last one might mean you'll see a lot more of them! ), but if this girl means anything to you at all, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss all her good qualities on the basis of her family members bad ones!

CaraMay

If you truly looked at people as individuals then you would not be using terms like average middle class and wealthy middle class .... It seems you have an issue with me saying out straight that I would rather not have a criminal for a father in law. You are happy to accept and not judge, from your 'upper middle class' position, those members of your circle who choose to live outside the law and that's your choice. You seem intend on dragging this off topic to justify your own choices. My point stands... Normally if you marry a woman you marry her family too and on that basis you are entitled to be fussy about who you want your kids to have as grandparents...

Oh I just noticed the murderer bit now - run!!!

ivytwine

In my opinion class has nothing to do with it. There's more than one type of criminal.

It also depends if crime is behind them. I know it is behind one particular member of my own family, which is why my first reaction was to empathise with the OP's girlfriend.

Are they reformed OP or are they still involved in criminal activity?

DoozerT6

Czarcasm wrote: »

By that same token, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be with someone who judges you not on your own merits, but on the misdeeds of other people over which you have no control.

Hyacinth Bucket much?

Bullcrap.


Like it or not, people may assume that because you are involved with/married into that family, you are, if not involved in their crimes, then ambivalent towards them. That is simply the way society works and you can try and paint it all the pretty colours that you want. Presumably this family is a known criminal family. Do you really want your own future children possibly being avoided by classmates/ their families, because they know who their relatives are? As CaraMay said, even if you are fine with these people (including murderers, as the OP stated) turning up to family functions, then go for it. If she's big on family, they'll be around a lot. I know of one guy who married into the (least offensive member of the) local scumbag/criminal family. His own family did not attend the wedding in protest. Is the OP prepared to possibly lose his own family and friends for the sake of this girl? Because that's a distinct possibility. He may have no problem associating with known criminals, even by proxy, but not everybody in his life may feel the same.

MagicMarker

Op, how serious is the relationship?

As in, would you be happy with your future children sitting down to Christmas dinner with their armed robber and/or murderer uncle/grandad?

zxcvbnm1

MagicMarker wrote: »

Op, how serious is the relationship?

As in, would you be happy with your future children sitting down to Christmas dinner with their armed robber and/or murderer uncle/grandad?

Just to clarify to people - the father was in get attempted murder years ago. He has for the last 20 years or so been running a legit very successful business as far as I can gather.
In the past he put her mother in a coma also. They are separated now for 30 years.

The cousin is currently serving 18 years for armed robbery.

I know little about the uncle other than she said he runs a protection racket where people 'disappear'. (Her words)

I have never met her family - but they look and dress well in photos (for what its worth. ).
And her mother definitely seems normal.

Her friends seems nice also and pretty respectable.
And she herself seems very normal in every way.

I've been dating her 3 months. But she is now (reasonably so) putting pressure in me to ramp up the seriousness as she is quite keen.
Only for these things about done of her relatives I would be there with great enthusiasm. But I can't help this knowledge is holding me back - and she can sense it.

Basically - I'm thinking if raising the issue with her ( which would surprise her).
Maybe she she might be able to reassure me in some way.
That's basically the crux if my query.
Should I raise this issue with her in some way? Or us it too sensitive a topic?
Or should I just knock it on the head and walk now without raising the question.

Czarcasm

CaraMay wrote: »

If you truly looked at people as individuals then you would not be using terms like middle class and upper middle class ....

I would of course use those terms, because they are generally understood to mean the difference between someone from a lower economic background, and someone from a more affluent economic background. I treat homeless people with the same respect I treat billionaires. Their social or economic status makes no difference to me personally, but that doesn't mean the same thing as completely ignoring it.

It seems you have an issue with me saying out straight that I would rather not have a criminal for a father in law. You are happy to accept and not judge, from your 'upper middle class' position, those members of tour family who choose to lice outside the law and that's your choice.

I don't have any issue with anything you said at all CM, in fact I acknowledged as much that the majority of people would understandably and totally agree with your opinion. I was merely offering the OP another perspective to think about.

When I said I would know and associate with people whose family members are involved in criminal activity, I didn't mean in my own family, or my wife's family. I meant in my friend's families. That doesn't mean my friends are criminals, and many of them are well educated positively contributing members of society, but they just happen to be related to people who did not share their determination not to grow up like them and get into the family business.

Opinions of course are going to differ, but it's not a criminal offence to offer another perspective that the OP might consider worth thinking about.

MagicMarker

zxcvbnm1 wrote: »

I know little about the uncle other than she said he runs a protection racket where people 'disappear'. (Her words).

I'd be saying "fair thee well" at this point.

Czarcasm

zxcvbnm1 wrote: »

I've been dating her 3 months. But she is now (reasonably so) putting pressure in me to ramp up the seriousness as she is quite keen.

OP this part of your post jumped out at me. Quite keen for what exactly, after only three months dating? And the fact that you would think after three months this is a reasonable time to be talking marriage? I'd sincerely hope not tbh.

OP I'll ask the question straight out- are this girl and her family members of the traveller community? They tend not to hang around when it comes to relationships, in which case that might be more a conversation worth having than her family's involvement in criminal activity.

Czarcasm

DoozerT6 wrote: »

Bullcrap.


Like it or not, people may assume that because you are involved with/married into that family, you are, if not involved in their crimes, then ambivalent towards them. That is simply the way society works and you can try and paint it all the pretty colours that you want.

I haven't tried to paint it any pretty colors Doozer in fairness, and I've acknowledged that of course understandably so CaraMay's opinion would be the one held by the majority in society. I've also acknowledged that my own idealistic position has left me burned more times than I'd care to remember.

Presumably this family is a known criminal family. Do you really want your own future children possibly being avoided by classmates/ their families, because they know who their relatives are?

I can't really do anything about other children choosing to avoid my child, they'll always find a reason to avoid him if they really want to. I've raised my child to accept that not everyone is going to agree with him, and there's not much he can do but accept their position and move on with his life rather than waste his time trying to change their minds. People are going to think what they want, and you can either let their opinion of you bother you, or you can be secure in yourself that you don't need validation from other people.

As CaraMay said, even if you are fine with these people (including murderers, as the OP stated) turning up to family functions, then go for it. If she's big on family, they'll be around a lot. I know of one guy who married into the (least offensive member of the) local scumbag/criminal family. His own family did not attend the wedding in protest. Is the OP prepared to possibly lose his own family and friends for the sake of this girl? Because that's a distinct possibility. He may have no problem associating with known criminals, even by proxy, but not everybody in his life may feel the same.

That's the most important question really, right after we find out the reason for the sudden urgency in moving this relationship to the next level after only three months!

I wouldn't advise anyone to get married so quickly, regardless of any familial or individual background circumstances, and their apparent eagerness would certainly raise the red flag for me.

zxcvbnm1

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP this part of your post jumped out at me. Quite keen for what exactly, after only three months dating? And the fact that you would think after three months this is a reasonable time to be talking marriage? I'd sincerely hope not tbh.

OP I'll ask the question straight out- are this girl and her family members of the traveller community? They tend not to hang around when it comes to relationships, in which case that might be more a conversation worth having than her family's involvement in criminal activity.

e

No no no. You've misunderstood me.

Firstly - when I say ramp it up, I mean up to now we have been seeing each other once a week or so. Dating basically. She now wants us to meet a bit more often. Become boyfriend and girlfriend proper basically. That is all. Absolutely nothing like marriage

And for them being travellers, again absolutely nothing like that at all either. She doesn't look, speak or dress or live in anyway a common lower working class like that. She herself completely appears proper middle class in every way.
And her family now run a very large successful company and have done so for many years.
They live in posh areas and seem to have loads if money through this legit large company.

And just to give a full picture, I myself am normal middle class very well educated and for better or worse would be considered posh if anything.

I do live in London though - and she is a Londoner. So I guess if I was back in Dublin maybe I may be able to judge from appearances a little easier.
But certainly they are nothing like travellers.

Czarcasm

Ahh right, phew! :pac:

Honestly OP though given the fuller picture, I think you may be placing more of an emphasis on her family's background than is necessary. You're over thinking the whole thing basically.

I wouldn't think you need overly concern yourself with what her cousins or uncles do, she doesn't sound like she's overly concerned with them herself, but at least she's been honest with you. She knew you could've walked when she told you, but she took that risk.

Do you care about her enough at this stage to see where this relationship goes and put what she told you to the back of your mind?

Tramps Like Us

Basically I think it comes down to her opinion on the crimes. When she was telling you about her cousin and uncle what was she like? Boasting, ashamed, trying to impress or intimidate you? Are you sure she is not making it up?

TBH if she was ashamed I don't think she would be going around spilling all these beans to someone she hasn't been going out with that long. If a girl told me that her family were criminals, her dad tried to murder someone and put her mother into a coma, her uncle makes people disappear, her cousin was doing 18 years for armed robbery (sounds a bit too lengthy a sentence to me) all within a couple of months of knowing her, before I even got to meet her family or were in a "proper" relationship, I'd be running for the hills. Sounds like a head-wreck which will not end well. Especially when she has not cut ties with these people.

JustAThought

Run as far away as you can go. Nicely. But run.

Pappa Charlie

As long as the relationship goes ok you'll be fine but if it dosent you'll probally end up in a sub floor covered in 12 inches of concrete, If it was me I'd keep searching for miss right and have a marked grave eventually!

CaraMay

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

As long as the relationship goes ok you'll be fine but if it dosent you'll probally end up in a sub floor covered in 12 inches of concrete, If it was me I'd keep searching for miss right and have a marked grave eventually!

Yeah you wouldn't want to break her heart. If he will put his wife in a coma then what will he do to you?

You also would have to wonder why she is telling all this to someone she has only had a number of dates with...

Czarcasm

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

As long as the relationship goes ok you'll be fine but if it dosent you'll probally end up in a sub floor covered in 12 inches of concrete, If it was me I'd keep searching for miss right and have a marked grave eventually!

Much like the OP, somebody else has been watching a bit too much tv

CaraMay wrote: »

Yeah you wouldn't want to break her heart. If he will put his wife in a coma then what will he do to you?

Not a whole lot would be the most likely answer. Even the magician uncle (makes people disappear... ), chances are likely he wouldn't give a fiddlers.

You also would have to wonder why she is telling all this to someone she has only had a number of dates with...

Probably because she's so used to having to justify herself to guys in her past who when they found out later on in the relationship, they ran for the hills. At least this way she's letting the OP know what he's letting himself in for in a "This is as bad as it gets, if you can handle this, we're cool from here on". She's giving him the opportunity to run if he wants to before she gets too invested in the relationship herself.

She knows there's something holding the OP back, so maybe it might be best that the OP be just as honest with her. She sounds like she's used to hearing it.

zxcvbnm1

Just to be clear - she didn't deliver this to me as some big confessional sit down chat.

This was drip fed to me casually over a number of dates. It was purely incidental conversation that was said by chance more than anything else.

It could easily just as not have come up in conversation at all going by the delivery of it.

Not even sure how relevant that info is. But that's how it was delivered to me from her.

username123

Personally I would not be happy to be judged on the actions of members of my family. The most important thing here is what does she think of all of this? If she thinks its ok - run. If she thinks its bad, then you are probably on the same page.

zxcvbnm1

Thanks all for replies. Ill stew in that for a while and make a decision.

Tramps Like Us

zxcvbnm1 wrote: »

Just to be clear - she didn't deliver this to me as some big confessional sit down chat.

This was drip fed to me casually over a number of dates. It was purely incidental conversation that was said by chance more than anything else.

It could easily just as not have come up in conversation at all going by the delivery of it.

Not even sure how relevant that info is. But that's how it was delivered to me from her.

Sounds really weird to me. Surely things like your mother being put into a coma by your dad, him being an attempted murderer, uncles and cousins being this and that are family secrets/shames not to be casually mentioned on dates? If it was a sitdown confessional "this is what you should know before we go any further" it would be a bit different.

OP, it sounds to me like she may be a fantasist or a headwreck. I would steer clear, it may be more drama than its worth, you are certainly right to be concerned.

ABajaninCork

I'd do a bit of discreet research, rather than asking her outright. If the family are Londoners, then it shouldn't be too difficult...You can then make up your mind after that.

FWIW - I'm from London and come from a 'good' area. But I know a fair few 'dodgy' folk. They don't impact my life in any way. Faces know who's 'in the know' and those who are civilians (i.e. straight people, for the want of a better phrase). They tend to leave the civilians alone.

I think you're getting way too far ahead. Enjoy the relationship for what it is. The 'Faces' will be leaving you alone. Trust me on that.

beks101

Jesus, the uncle making people "disappear" part would freak me right out.

What happens if she introduces you to the family and down the line you end up breaking up? Will you be disappearing too?

I know Im exaggerating now for argument's sake, but it sounds like criminal behaviour is deeply ingrained in this family's fabric and that's the part that would trouble me.

I mean jesus, we all have dark, sordid, seedy characters and behaviours in our families, a drunken uncle, mentally unstable aunt, drug abusing brother etc etc, but attempted murder, armed robbery and what seems like an ongoing mafia-assassination style operation is a completely different kettle of fish.

I guess you have to gauge the strength of your feelings for her V your willingness to overlook all of these things, but personally, three months in and knowing what you already know...I'd be politely calling it a day.

December2012

Personally, that would be too much baggage for me to take.

I'd be gone.

fungun

Id find that difficult....the fact that her dad put her mum in a coma and her uncle makes people 'disappear' would make me feel under too much pressure to never break up/argue with her. Id be half-expecting the hinty jokes from her family about not hurting her...except normally you know they are jokes

If you think she is 'the one' then by all means go for it, but if you like her a bit and are wondering what will grow out of this, then I think Id probably cut it before I got too involved.

Seems ****ty for her though tbf, but at times you have to do whats right for you, i just wouldnt want criminals like that anywhere near my family, when they have demonstrated that they can seriously hurt those they have loved. I wouldnt want them to babysit, have them over at Xmas etc etc

The Corinthian

Every family has skeletons in the closet (don't mention the war...) and honestly, you should be more concerned about the person you're with than her family being dodgy - the older you get, the more that becomes an issue.

So I wouldn't get overly hung up on it. It may even be handy to have underworld connections in the future.

Given this, whatever you do, don't knock her up.

CaraMay

The Corinthian wrote: »

Every family has skeletons in the closet

Yeah they do but not ACTUAL SKELETONS in their closets....

dixiefly

OP, what is your girlfriends opinion of her scumbag dad, cousin and uncle. Is she of the opinion that their behaviour and attitudes are completely unacceptable? Because that's what it is. Remember all of these activities have had consequences and victims.
And can you be sure that this great successful business that they now have did not get a help along the way with the proceeds of crime?

As others have said, her attitude to her criminal scum family could help make your mind up.

Remember, if you are thinking of a long term relationship with kids etc, her values will be of significant importance as she will be at least partly responsible for installing values to your children.

The Corinthian

CaraMay wrote: »

Yeah they do but not ACTUAL SKELETONS in their closets....

Go back a few generations and you'll find that most families do have actual skeletons in their closets; consider the number of people who'll proudly tell you that their (great-)grandfathers were in the Old IRA, for example - what do you think they got up to?

While the immediate, or extended, background of someone is naturally a factor, what they are is ultimately more important.

CaraMay

[QUOTE=The Corinthian;85967691?

While the immediate, or extended, background of someone is naturally a factor, what they are is ultimately more important.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm not for me... I would not want a gangster sitting opposite me on Xmas day.

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote: »

While the immediate, or extended, background of someone is naturally a factor, what they are is ultimately more important.

fungun wrote: »

Seems ****ty for her though tbf

I would agree and the problem I see here is this ...

zxcvbnm1 wrote: »

she has mentioned over that time that some of her family (at the very least her uncle,cousin and father) have been involved in EXTREME crime (armed robbery, murder) in the past.

the father was in get attempted murder years ago ... In the past he put her mother in a coma also. They are separated now for 30 years.

The cousin is currently serving 18 years for armed robbery.

I know little about the uncle other than she said he runs a protection racket where people 'disappear'. (Her words)

zxcvbnm1 wrote: »

Is this something I can raise with her? If so, how? (She is a big family person) ... Basically - I'm thinking of raising the issue with her (which would surprise her)

OP, you say your girlfriend is a "big family person" which, to me, implies that they are a big part of her life ... so she's perfectly comfortable around an armed robber, an attempted murderer, a wife beater, a racketeer, etc ... at the very least.

A lot of in-laws can be a pain in the @ss but this is above and beyond. And you're worried about even discussing this with her because you think she might be offended.

I personally would not be comfortable getting deeply involved with this family and I would not be comfortable with a partner who doesn't see how understandably uncomfortable this could make you.

Honestly OP, I'd have this thread taken down, the family is easily identifiable from what you've described here, would you be OK with your girlfriend or someone who knows her reading this thread?

Neyite

The Corinthian wrote: »

Go back a few generations and you'll find that most families do have actual skeletons in their closets; consider the number of people who'll proudly tell you that their (great-)grandfathers were in the Old IRA, for example - what do you think they got up to?

While the immediate, or extended, background of someone is naturally a factor, what they are is ultimately more important.

CaraMay wrote: »

Hmmm not for me... I would not want a gangster sitting opposite me on Xmas day.

Back on topic with advice for the OP please.