Italia 90 or 2009 Grand Slam

PTH2009

which was better ??

I was only a few months old in 1990 so remember nothing from that. It has to be the 2009 Grand slam for me.

Rememeber when tommy bowe scored the second try i broke 2 pints on the table in front of me and stayed celebrating. Thank god Leigh Halfpenny was not taking Wales last ticket as i believe he would of scored it

Sunglasses Ron

Ah here! No comparison.

Maybe it is just me but I don't remember the general public caring for rugby until around the time it moved to Croker and everyone bandwagon on the significance of playing England there.

I wish them well enough and all that but I just can't take rugby all that seriously in terms of national pride with them pandering to Orangemen with the Ireland's Call stuff.

Pherekydes

What did "we" win in 1990?

Amirani

Football is a far bigger sport. Getting to the quarter finals of a World Cup is a much bigger achievement than a Six Nations Grand Slam.

Italia '90 all the way.

DrumSteve

Pherekydes wrote: »

What did "we" win in 1990?

FRRRREEEEEDDDOOOOMMMM!

(To party).

Tin Foil Hat

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Ah here! No comparison.

Maybe it is just me but I don't remember the general public caring for rugby until around the time it moved to Croker and everyone bandwagon on the significance of playing England there.

It's just you. Support for rugby has been on the increase since the start of the century.

Agricola

Rugby will never have the same impact as soccer. The rugby lads could win the 6 Nations 3 years on the trot and there would still be more excitement if the soccer team just qualified for a major finals and then got tanked, as they did last year.

Plus Billo and the Dunph are just so much more charismatic that Tom McGurk n Hook.

Matt_Trakker

Rugby????
Bha-hahahahahaha

Toff sport for toffs....unless your from Limerick, then it's a game for tracksuits.

Duckworth_Luas

I grew up playing rugby and have no real interest in soccer but to put these two in the same bracket is a joke.

Winning a Grand Slam is just short of equal to qualifying for a Euro Championships I'd say

podgemonster

Born in '86 so have very blurry memories of Italia '90. We did however have a television room in secondary school with an Italia 90 highlights video.

There were several wet lunch times where we watched it. In particular the penalty shootout as if twas live. I remember us going ape-shít when Packie stopped the final Romanian shot and some lads couldn't even watch Dave O'Leary take his peno.

Emmense emotion experienced 10 years later. Fantastic.

A Nation holds its breath....

Crooked Jack

Neither. All-Ireland Final 2002.
Tiocfaidh Armagh!

Amirani

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Neither. All-Ireland Final 2002.
Tiocfaidh Armagh!

I'll take the last 16 of World Cup 2002 for that year...

Crooked Jack

podgemonster wrote: »

Born in '86 so have very blurry memories of Italia '90. We did however have a television room in secondary school with an Italia 90 highlights video.

There were several wet lunch times where we watched it. In particular the penalty shootout as if twas live. I remember us going ape-shít when Packie stopped the final Romanian shot and some lads couldn't even watch Dave O'Leary take his peno.

Emmense emotion experienced 10 years later. Fantastic.

A Nation holds its breath....

I was born in '86 too. I recall very little of it except thinking Packie Bonner was just a super hero and being immensely proud that I had an older cousin called Packie who i subsequently idolised, much to his confusion, for several years.

GavRedKing

Besting 5 other nations, cant be compared to getting to and doing well at a WC, IMO.

Sunglasses Ron

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It's just you. Support for rugby has been on the increase since the start of the century.

I would agree it started then, but hit the roof around 2006 or so. Back in school I only recall maybe two or three lads who were true rugby heads, fast forward a few years and suddenly everyone and their missus treated it as a life and death sport. Used to work with a bloke from Howth, good lad but typical rugby background, who said he had more respect for my admitted complete lack of knowledge and interest in the sport as opposed to the 90% of the population who turned into pundits overnight who he had to listen harp on with utterly clueless opinions on tactics, management etc etc. Case in point being the recent Gatland/ O Driscoll bandwagon.

Really there was a bit of a correlation between Croker, a few big wins against the Brits, and the football team becoming near unwatchable in the Stan days that contributed to the general public latching onto the bandwagon.

osarusan

Euro 88. First tournament, close to home, beat the English.

iDave

Different sports with different levels of competitiveness and competition structures.
Guess the sport you like the most is the deciding factor.
Personally see my county winning an All Ireland was better than both.

Crooked Jack

NiallSparky wrote: »

I'll take the last 16 of World Cup 2002 for that year...

That's genuinely not a bad achievement for a small country like ours but still, I dunno if it's just because I never really got into soccer or rugby, but I'd rather see the Orangemen lift Sam again than Ireland win the world cup.
At this stage I'd settle for them winning Ulster, or perhaps even a few qualifier games over someone other than wicklow. **** it, if they just dont get relegated in the league again I'd be happy.

Nothing against the soccer or rugby teams mind, I get caught up in all the stuff the same as everyone else when they're doing well, it just doesnt mean as much to me. I think we should aim for all three, why decide on one. Armagh for Sam, Ireland for the world cups.

niallon

That so many people think Italia 90 was the better achievement is exactly why we are always bridesmaids in sport when it matters.

Ah we did well. Ah we gave it our best. Sure we're only a small island.

Smaller sport or smaller competition, Ireland still had to get past the third and fourth biggest powers in the game (Wales and France) in order to win the Slam, it's every bit the equivalent of getting nearly there in the WC.

The sooner this island realises that we actually could be world beaters in various sports the sooner we will be. I carry the same sentiment towards the last Rugby World Cup by the way, nothing was achieved by making a quarter final.

Amirani

iDave wrote: »

Different sports with different levels of competitiveness and competition structures.
Guess the sport you like the most is the deciding factor.
Personally see my county winning an All Ireland was better than both.

I can see why that would be a bigger achievement than winning a grand slam.

Amirani

niallon wrote: »

That so many people think Italia 90 was the better achievement is exactly why we are always bridesmaids in sport when it matters.

Ah we did well. Ah we gave it our best. Sure we're only a small island.

Smaller sport or smaller competition, Ireland still had to get past the third and fourth biggest powers in the game (Wales and France) in order to win the Slam, it's every bit the equivalent of getting nearly there in the WC.

The sooner this island realises that we actually could be world beaters in various sports the sooner we will be. I carry the same sentiment towards the last Rugby World Cup by the way, nothing was achieved by making a quarter final.

Better to be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a puddle.

Jimoslimos

PTH2009 wrote: »

Thank god Leigh Halfpenny was not taking Wales last ticket as i believe he would of scored it

As accurate as Halfpenny is with the boot it is irrelevant, because distance was Stephen Jones undoing for that last kick. Remember Halfpenny missed a similar-ish kick to win the second Lions test against Australia this year.

Buer

PTH2009 wrote: »

Rememeber when tommy bowe scored the second try i broke 2 pints on the table in front of me and stayed celebrating. Thank god Leigh Halfpenny was not taking Wales last ticket as i believe he would of scored it

Halfpenny had only just started playing international rugby and wasn't even kicking for his club, let alone his country (and wasn't playing on the day). I'd have been far more confident in Jones. In truth, Henson should have been the one taking the kick.

Back to the topic at hand, Italia '90 definitely. The 6N is a wonderful tournament but it takes place over 2 months and is a slow burner at the end of which, the winner has often been decided already. On the day we won the GS, Wales would have had to beat us by about 15 points to deny us the 6N title.

The WC is an absolute feast of football with nations from all over the planet coming together. It dominates public imagination and the media. Italia '90 will forever be something special and probably holds more evocative memories for many 23 years later than the GS does 4 years later.

Frank Black

The Grand Slam in Rugby was great.

But, Italia 90, that was somethig else entirely. I'm old enough to have some really good memories of the time.


*stares into middle distance while harp music plays and everything goes a bit fuzzy...

Frank Black wrote: »

I can clearly remember the shoot-out between Ireland and Romania at the 1990 World Cup. I was with my family and we were on the Rosslare- Cherbourg ferry bound for a camping holiday in France.

The match went into extra time as the ferry docked at Cherbourg and despite numerous intercom announcements for people to make their way back to their cars for dis-embarking, nobody was going anywhere – this was our first time in the World Cup and nobody wanted to miss it. There were hundreds of people clustered around a couple of (quite small) tv’s and the atmosphere was (not to sound clichéd) electric.

When David O’Leary scored the winning penalty the whole boat went mad – people jumping around hugging strangers etc. I can remember the eventual disembarking of the ferry. Hundreds of cars poured into the port with people hanging out of windows, beeping horns and generally going crazy – how there weren’t any accidents is probably a minor miracle. The bemused faces of the French customs officials in the port only added to the surreal situation. Even now 21 years later it still makes me smile.:)

Sunglasses Ron

niallon wrote: »

That so many people think Italia 90 was the better achievement is exactly why we are always bridesmaids in sport when it matters.

Ah we did well. Ah we gave it our best. Sure we're only a small island.

Smaller sport or smaller competition, Ireland still had to get past the third and fourth biggest powers in the game (Wales and France) in order to win the Slam, it's every bit the equivalent of getting nearly there in the WC.

The sooner this island realises that we actually could be world beaters in various sports the sooner we will be. I carry the same sentiment towards the last Rugby World Cup by the way, nothing was achieved by making a quarter final.

It is all relative though. Because we are one of the top teams in a sport that is only widely played in, what, less than dozen countries, winning a title is not that big. One could nearly argue that if in the next RWC semi final New Zealand narrowly beat, I dunno, the Bangladesh national rugby side, that the Bangladesh team had achieved something unbelievable by making it that far and not getting a hiding. Even if we lose a tournament, Irish football teams reaching semi finals or beating Italy in 1994 are achievements in themselves.

Pherekydes

1990 was a load of ****. They played five games and drew four, losing the other to Italy. Much ado about nothing.

The six nations is no biggie either. Basically, Ireland are guaranteed two wins, and they only have to beat an off-form England or France to have a shot at a grand slam.

When Dublin win the double in September they'll be double World Champions!!!!

speedboatchase

niallon wrote: »

That so many people think Italia 90 was the better achievement is exactly why we are always bridesmaids in sport when it matters.

Ah we did well. Ah we gave it our best. Sure we're only a small island.

Smaller sport or smaller competition, Ireland still had to get past the third and fourth biggest powers in the game (Wales and France) in order to win the Slam, it's every bit the equivalent of getting nearly there in the WC.

The sooner this island realises that we actually could be world beaters in various sports the sooner we will be. I carry the same sentiment towards the last Rugby World Cup by the way, nothing was achieved by making a quarter final.

6 Nations is meaningless by comparison. It's every year and Grand Slams are quite common, albeit not for us. Also, only about 10-12 countries in the world play Rugby and aren't sh*te. It's barely a world sport.

Cale

PTH2009 wrote: »

which was better ??

I was only a few months old in 1990 so remember nothing from that. It has to be the 2009 Grand slam for me

Then you've really no point of reference.

1990 for me. There's something about football that moves nations. It's a monster.

matthew8

Jimoslimos wrote: »

As accurate as Halfpenny is with the boot it is irrelevant, because distance was Stephen Jones undoing for that last kick. Remember Halfpenny missed a similar-ish kick to win the second Lions test against Australia this year.

Halfpenny has a range around 5 metres longer than Jones.

As a rugby fan I'd love to say rugby got the nation more excited and while I think the slam was a better achievement because we beat some very good teams rather than drawing 3 games at a world cup and then getting one of the easier last 16 draws by pure chance as opposed to playing the West Germans, scraping past Romania and getting knocked out in the quarters but you only have to look around anywhere to see the nation gets far more excited about even qualifying for a major soccer tournament than they do for any rugby match.

WesternZulu

matthew8 wrote: »

Halfpenny has a range around 5 metres longer than Jones.

As a rugby fan I'd love to say rugby got the nation more excited and while I think the slam was a better achievement because we beat some very good teams rather than drawing 3 games at a world cup and then getting one of the easier last 16 draws by pure chance as opposed to playing the West Germans, scraping past Romania and getting knocked out in the quarters but you only have to look around anywhere to see the nation gets far more excited about even qualifying for a major soccer tournament than they do for any rugby match.

But you have to qualify to even get the opportunity to draw four games and the chance only comes along every four years.

Sure you only have to show up to take part in the 6-nations every year :pac:

Cale

matthew8 wrote: »

Halfpenny has a range around 5 metres longer than Jones.

As a rugby fan I'd love to say rugby got the nation more excited and while I think the slam was a better achievement because we beat some very good teams rather than drawing 3 games at a world cup and then getting one of the easier last 16 draws by pure chance as opposed to playing the West Germans, scraping past Romania and getting knocked out in the quarters but you only have to look around anywhere to see the nation gets far more excited about even qualifying for a major soccer tournament than they do for any rugby match.

But in fairness a nation the size of Ireland (especially at the time and given our lack of progress in the sport in general) even qualifying for a World Cup was a huge achievement - it was our first WC too.

Nobody has to even qualify for the six nations. Playing the same teams over and over you're bound to get to know you're opponents strength and weaknesses a lot easier in that scenario than potentially facing Italy or Germany at a WC. Or even 'lesser' sides like Serbia or Croatia.

Christ the Redeemer

1990.. obviously.

Talib Fiasco

I wasn't alive for Italia 90 but it's hard to see past that. Although Bernard Dunne won the World Title on the same day as the Grand Slam and that is a phenomenal achievement. You could go for both tbh.

seven_eleven

Italia 90 sounds like a motorbike race
grand slam sounds like some WWE tournament.

Karl Stein

Our soccer team didn't win one game in world cup '90.

The whole thing was a celebration of mediocrity.

in 2009 the rugby team was unbeaten winning every game they played bar one which was a draw iirc.

Seems quite clear to me which is more worth celebrating.

jack presley

Rugby fans still think winning the Triple Crown is a big achievement (when in reality it's just winning 3 games out of 5) so I can see why they'd see the Grand Slam as a bigger achievement than Italian '90.

By the way, I see Euro '88 as bigger than both

Amirani

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Our soccer team didn't win one game in world cup '90.

The whole thing was a celebration of mediocrity.

in 2009 the rugby team was unbeaten winning every game they played bar one which was a draw iirc.

Seems quite clear to me which is more worth celebrating.

Surely the sporting context is relevant?

Karl Stein

NiallSparky wrote: »

Surely the sporting context is relevant?

Isn't that what I just did? Introduce context?

1990 was one of the worst, lowest scoring, world cup tournaments ever.

The group stages were primarily miserable no score draws. Ireland didn't win one game. We played negative soccer and eeked our way to a 1/4 final which we lost.

\0/

jack presley

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Isn't that what I just did? Introduce context?

1990 was one of the worst, lowest scoring, world cup tournaments ever.

The group stages were primarily miserable no score draws. Ireland didn't win one game. We played negative soccer and eeked our way to a 1/4 final which we lost.

\0/

Yeah, but we all got drunk.....

FearDark

Winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkc8dGF2ds

who_me

PTH2009 wrote: »

which was better ??

I was only a few months old in 1990 so remember nothing from that. It has to be the 2009 Grand slam for me.

Rememeber when tommy bowe scored the second try i broke 2 pints on the table in front of me and stayed celebrating. Thank god Leigh Halfpenny was not taking Wales last ticket as i believe he would of scored it

Enjoyed both enormously, but Grand Slam by a mile. Actually winning something is nice, for a change.

Sunglasses Ron

FearDark wrote: »

Winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkc8dGF2ds

There truly is no country that would celebrate it as hard as we did. I came into work the morning after the 2006 final steamin drunk with about two hours sleep in me and the Italians there, sure, they were happy, but that was last night and today was today. If Ireland had won the 2006 WC we would still be on the lash today :P

jack presley

I can see why rugby fans cherish that grand slam though as it was the only title for the 'golden generation' in a tournament with 6 teams. I'd have expected more

Dick Masterson

I was too young to remember, but I'd rank the World Cup 1994 and 2002 above 2009 any day because football is more popular in Ireland and worldwide.

eyescreamcone

Football fans will think Italia 90 was better.

Rugby fans will think their win was better.

Neutrals won't remember the Rugby win already, but will remember leaving work to watch the Romania last 16 game in 1990.

Packie Bonnar's penalty save IN MY OPINION was Ireland's premier sporting moment.

Amirani

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Isn't that what I just did? Introduce context?

1990 was one of the worst, lowest scoring, world cup tournaments ever.

The group stages were primarily miserable no score draws. Ireland didn't win one game. We played negative soccer and eeked our way to a 1/4 final which we lost.

\0/

Grand slams are incredibly common though, there's been 37 of them. 8 since the year 2002.

Edit: Also worth pointing out that every country except for Italy has won at least one. Only 20 or so teams have progressed further in the World Cup than the Quarter Finals.

An Riabhach

PTH2009 wrote: »

which was better ??

I was only a few months old in 1990 so remember nothing from that. It has to be the 2009 Grand slam for me.

Rememeber when tommy bowe scored the second try i broke 2 pints on the table in front of me and stayed celebrating. Thank god Leigh Halfpenny was not taking Wales last ticket as i believe he would of scored it

When you compare the two:
In the scheme of things,I'd choose the grand siam of 2009 simply because we won the trophy.Italy 1990 was great though,because twas our first WC tournament and we were not expected to get that far.

Amirani

Seasan wrote: »

When you compare the two:
In the scheme of things,I'd choose the grand siam of 2009 simply because we won the trophy.Italy 1990 was great though,because twas our first WC tournament and we were not expected to get that far.

Another way of looking at it is that we far exceeded expectations in 1990, we didn't in 2009.

castletownman

I think it's testament to the relevance that Italia 90 had on the Irish public, that I can still watch that youtube video of RTE's montage ahead of their quarter final and get goosebumps. I was only two at the time, so obviously have no conscience memory of it, but the scene of one of the heads of the FAI shedding tears of joy when O'Leary scored the penalty is a scene that will stick with me forever.

I don't think a similar video montage of Ireland's grand slam success would a) showcase the hysteria of the nation or b) bring out the same emotion in me.

An Riabhach

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I wish them well enough and all that but I just can't take rugby all that seriously in terms of national pride with them pandering to Orangemen with the Ireland's Call stuff.

Couldn't agree more.

An Riabhach

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I wish them well enough and all that but I just can't take rugby all that seriously in terms of national pride with them pandering to Orangemen with the Ireland's Call stuff.

Couldn't agree more.

Ireland's Call is not our national anthem-end of story.But if that is the only significance of the song being played,I'm still baffled-because the unionists on the team still will not "answer Ireland's Call",will they?

It should be left at Amhrán Na bhFiann.If they are playing for Ireland,then that is the anthem that they should be hearing.It is played for our soccer team,even though some of our players are not fully Irish.(having said that,Mick McCarthy and Kevin Kilbane,both bred in England,always sang Amhrán na bhFiann out loudly)