Incident involving EI-FXA

cml387

This report (second investigation in report) is rather interesting.

The incident happened on 22 Feb last year, on approach to Glasgow airport.

It seems like a total breakdown in CRM occurred during the flight.

John_Mc

Seems like the captain is an absolute cowboy trying to cover it up like that. The FO has my utmost respect for reporting the incident. It can't have been easy for him.

Comhrá

This report (second investigation in report) is rather interesting.

That link doesn't appear to work.

ANXIOUS

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/ATR42-300%20EI-FXA%2008-13%20v2.pdf

smurfjed

Interesting report, very strange that they had to use the autopilot to regain control of the aircraft. The report also seems to focus on the fact that the crew were discussing non related items whilst flying at or below 10,000 feet, I always thought that related to the fact that this related to busy periods during departure and arrival, I didn't think that it prohibited conversation during cruise.

smurfjed

John_Mc

smurfjed wrote: »

Interesting report, very strange that they had to use the autopilot to regain control of the aircraft. The report also seems to focus on the fact that the crew were discussing non related items whilst flying at or below 10,000 feet, I always thought that related to the fact that this related to busy periods during departure and arrival, I didn't think that it prohibited conversation during cruise.

smurfjed

Yeah it stands out from the report as one of the most alarming things in the report. You'd think that once things get a bit hectic, take the controls yourself and sort out the automation when the situation is resolved.

As far as I know sterile cockpit is 10,000ft and below.

cml387

smurfjed wrote: »

Interesting report, very strange that they had to use the autopilot to regain control of the aircraft. The report also seems to focus on the fact that the crew were discussing non related items whilst flying at or below 10,000 feet, I always thought that related to the fact that this related to busy periods during departure and arrival, I didn't think that it prohibited conversation during cruise.

smurfjed

That the F.O. didn't engage much in the conversation was stated in the report

smurfjed

The use of the words During the flight, both above and below FL100, the commander initiated conversation on a
range of topics, speaking at length on some of them2/U] gave me the impression that they were cruising at that altitude.

smurfjed

Strumms

Very odd that such an experienced Captain could oversee the aircraft becoming unstable on the approach not once but twice ? I know first hand all be it not having been in their direct employment that there is a very strong culture of safety and doing things rigidly per sop in that airline so I need not wonder too much as to what became of the skipper. Good job by the F/O for speaking up though very commendable.

LeftBase

I seems to me like the FO realised that the Captain was diverging from SOPs as he seemed to give pretty..."direct" advise to the Captain when the stall warner went off

cml387

Strumms wrote: »

Very odd that such an experienced Captain could oversee the aircraft becoming unstable on the approach not once but twice ? I know first hand all be it not having been in their direct employment that there is a very strong culture of safety and doing things rigidly per sop in that airline so I need not wonder too much as to what became of the skipper. Good job by the F/O for speaking up though very commendable.

The actions of the FO and his request to pull the CVR recording supports your opinion about having a strong safety culture.

cson

LeftBase wrote: »

I seems to me like the FO realised that the Captain was diverging from SOPs as he seemed to give pretty..."direct" advise to the Captain when the stall warner went off

Fly the aircraft for fucksake?

Worth noting that Irish pilots (not sure what nationality these were) have a very high (top 5 in the world) Power Distance Index which essentially means the second in command generally has no problem saying something like the above to the commander. Other cultures have a serious trait of deference to the commander - Avianca 52 being a good example of this. Hat tip to Malcolm Gladwell on this point.

LeftBase

cson wrote: »

Fly the aircraft for fucksake?

Worth noting that Irish pilots (not sure what nationality these were) have a very high (top 5 in the world) Power Distance Index which essentially means the second in command generally has no problem saying something like the above to the commander. Other cultures have a serious trait of deference to the commander - Avianca 52 being a good example of this. Hat tip to Malcolm Gladwell on this point.

The KLM/Pan-Am disaster is another pretty good example of an FO not standing up to a Captain too.

de biz

cson wrote: »

Fly the aircraft for fucksake?

Worth noting that Irish pilots (not sure what nationality these were) have a very high (top 5 in the world) Power Distance Index which essentially means the second in command generally has no problem saying something like the above to the commander. Other cultures have a serious trait of deference to the commander - Avianca 52 being a good example of this. Hat tip to Malcolm Gladwell on this point.

Interesting point CSON.Do you have a source relating to Irish pilots PDI?
Just would like to review any research done in this area.