PC Build for Virtual Lab

obriendj

Hi there,

I am hoping you may be able to assist. I would like to build a Virtual Lab on one box with a NAS attached if required.

I would like to get a few years out of this build so would potentially like a Motherboard that can handle 64GB with 8 DIMMs so can add Ram at a later stage but then again it might be cheaper to upgrade at a later stage.

Also I am looking at i5 vs i7 and whether I can get need the i7 or would a high end i5 be sufficient. I am not very familiar with Cooling systems but would like a PC which is efficient and quiet. I would like the Case and PSU unit to last a while so willing to spend a bit more so that I can reuse for years to come.

I know that this is a lot of requests but if you can assist, I would appreciate it.


1. What is your budget? Around €1000 but can go higher

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Primarily to create a virtual lab with VMs in preparation for MS exams. Install different OS and MS Applications to study. Also to use as a Windows 7 PC with Internet Access and VLC player to watch movies and play music. No Games of any suggnificants .

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? Graphics Card & DVD & Small NAS with slow disks.

5. Do you need a monitor? No

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? 1920x1080 32 Inch LCD Samsung, No plans to upgrade

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Perhaps if required in the future but I have no experience with it

8. How can you pay? Any

9. When are you purchasing? Proably the start of next Mont,

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Dublin but will be able to build myself

Here is what i have looked at so far, it might be a little overkill?

Motherboard - would like to stick with Gigabyte or Asus
Gigabyte X79S-UP5-WIFI, Intel C606, eATX, PCI-Express
294.86 €
CPU - Intel Core i5 or i7
Intel Core i7-4770K Tray,3,5 GHZ, 8MB Cache, LGA 1150, VGA
302,12 €

RAM - 32GB with Memory Speed of over 2000 MHz
32GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance PC3-17066U CL10
314,97 €

SSD 256GB - 90K IOPS with 550MB write Speed
Toshiba SSD Q-Series 256GB SATA GB/s (is this
189,00 €

Sata HardDrive
2x SEAGATE Constellation CS SED 2TB 64MB 7200rpm
226,84 €

Case - something quiet and nothing to flashy.
Zalman Z12 Midi-Tower - schwarz, ohne Netzteil
51,98 €

PSU
be quiet! DARK POWER PRO 10 750W
163,95 €

Total is a little high €1.543,72
(Couldn't get fluffys script to run, will it work in Chrome?)

Thanks again

BloodBath

How many vm's would you be using simultaneously? Would you have any idea of how much ram each vm would be using? It varies a lot.

obriendj

BloodBath wrote: »

How many vm's would you be using simultaneously? Would you have any idea of how much ram each vm would be using? It varies a lot.

Thanks for the quick response. I would probably have about 8 VMs and would hope they would not total 16-24 GB between them,

A Domain Controller 2GB. A sql server 4GB (at least) and 2 System Center Config Manager servers 2-3GB each and a few Clients. 1GB

I could do more but not simultaneously.

BloodBath

Ok you won't need more than 4 cores or 32gb's of ram anytime soon I think even if the sql server is using around 8gb of ram. There's no need to spend crazy money on a cpu or mainboard either. 4 core's would have all the power you need for that many vm's and more. I went with more faster 1tb hdd's as well. It's better to have more drives so the vm's aren't running off the same drives.

How does this look? The case comes in 2 other colors as well. The hdd's will fill all of the drive bays in that case so if you think you will add more you might need a case with more 3.5 inch bays.


Item|Price
32GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance rot PC3-14900U CL9-10-9-27 (DDR3-1866)|€249.89
Samsung SSD 840 EVO Basic 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€169.90
4 x WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€224.48
Cooltek Antiphon Black, ohne Netzteil|€60.73
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 500W|€53.75
Intel Core i5-3330 Box, LGA1155|€154.25
ASRock B75 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€65.09
Enermax T.B.Silence 12x12cm|€6.64
Zalman CNPS5X Performa CPU-Kühler|€14.10
BitFenix Molex zu 4x SATA Adapter 20 cm, sleeved schwarz/schwarz|€7.23
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1025.05

obriendj

That is such a great help Blood.

Thanks for taking the time to check this out for me. And you are dead right about the faster disks.

Thanks again!!!

Cuddlesworth

Don't get platter disks for VM's, they are simply incapable of handling the IOPS required from multiple machines. Your far better off spending the money on a second SSD drive with a cheap 1tb for backup of disk images.

If you play it smart, a single 256gb SSD will do for 30-40 VM's. Create and use a master image for your VM's. Use one for each OS type your installing(Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 2008 R2, 2012 etc), split across the two drives. Make your host OS Windows 8 or above and install Hyper V. Run the VM's in isolation, except for DMZ devices. Your different servers will only create tiny amounts of data relative to a full install.

You don't need 32gigs of ram, but it is nice. You can assign each host 1gig, 2gigs if your feeling frisky. They don't use any ram as they don't actually do anything, most of the time your really only practicing config and setup rather then having 1k+ users hitting them with requests. even your SQL databases will pretty much have nothing in them.

Cores are important but only when you have a large number of VM's on at once, I've had my dual core Atom running 6 server installs without issue. A 4 core I5 with HT is perfect.

If your planning something like this long term, I'd consider changing tack on what you are purchasing.

If I could go back, I'd consider simply building a quiet NAS with SSD's, small managed switch and building multiples(if needed) of something like the Intel NUC. Pricey in the long term, but great flexibility and power usage.

lukepaddy2

I'd go for a 8320 or 8350 over the i5 3330 anyday of the week for virtual machines. AMD wins hands down. You would be more than fine with 16GB of Ram. You don't need to spend as much as your planning there whatsoever. There is no such thing as future proofing a PC unfortunately.

BloodBath

VM's aren't cpu intensive at all. You can easily run 4+vm's per cpu core. You will run into memory issues long before cpu ones. An 8320 or 8350 also use more than twice the power of the i5 and does not have integrated graphics meaning you would have to buy a g-card pushing the price and power consumption even higher.

I'd agree with the ssd though but it would depend on the vm's and how much disk space they need. You were going with 4tb of space in your own spec so I assumed you needed the space.

I know feck all about vm's though. I'm only going on what I've read.

Cuddlesworth

BloodBath wrote: »

I know feck all about vm's though. I'm only going on what I've read.

Remember the sheer pleasure of using a SSD for the first time. Now multiply it by 100 when your talking about VM's. You have the usual back and forth random polling by the hard-drive for the various windows processes and tasks. But spread out over multiple machines, in pretty much all the sectors of the platter drive. The whole thing slows to a absolute crawl due to the inadequate seek times, meaning you have to invest in proper raid cards, large drive arrays and the bloody noise and vibrations you end up with.

You don't need the bandwidth, just the access times.

The issue of space has been solved with using master images and of course the fact that they are getting cheaper per GB over time.

If I had the cash, I'd seriously consider picking up 4 of these for a raid in my N40L(reliability aside), would give me near unlimited VM's combined with my two desktops.

BloodBath

Thanks for the info.

If it's all about random reads/writes then you would be far better off with a single 1tb Samsung 840 evo. It would have about 5 times the random i/o performance of those older vertex 2's. They can also make use of dram caching to speed up performance even more. Raiding ssd's is only going to increase the sequential read/writes.

Cuddlesworth

BloodBath wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

If it's all about random reads/writes then you would be far better off with a single 1tb Samsung 840 evo. It would have about 5 times the random i/o performance of those older vertex 2's. They can also make use of dram caching to speed up performance even more. Raiding ssd's is only going to increase the sequential read/writes.

Honest answer. The only reason I would buy and raid them would be because of the redundancy of the raid combined with the cheapness of the drive. Even soem of the worst SSD's are fine for VM's. Your not aiming for absolute performance, your going for a combination of performance, space and cost.

Although that 1tb drive is really tempting.

As I said above though, if you play it smart a single 256gb disk can go a very long way.

obriendj

Don't get platter disks for VM's, they are simply incapable of handling the IOPS required from multiple machines. Your far better off spending the money on a second SSD drive with a cheap 1tb for backup of disk images.

If you play it smart, a single 256gb SSD will do for 30-40 VM's. Create and use a master image for your VM's. Use one for each OS type your installing(Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 2008 R2, 2012 etc), split across the two drives. Make your host OS Windows 8 or above and install Hyper V. Run the VM's in isolation, except for DMZ devices. Your different servers will only create tiny amounts of data relative to a full install.

Thanks for the great advice. Its very handy and given me alot to think about. I will stick with Windows 8 and use the master image.

You don't need 32gigs of ram, but it is nice. You can assign each host 1gig, 2gigs if your feeling frisky. They don't use any ram as they don't actually do anything, most of the time your really only practicing config and setup rather then having 1k+ users hitting them with requests. even your SQL databases will pretty much have nothing in them.

I think you are right about the RAM I will probably take your advice and get 16GB then upgrade in the future. Should I consider higher Memory Speed above 2400MHz

Cores are important but only when you have a large number of VM's on at once, I've had my dual core Atom running 6 server installs without issue. A 4 core I5 with HT is perfect.

I think the Intel Core i5 3570K (3rd Gen) will do the trick.

If your planning something like this long term, I'd consider changing tack on what you are purchasing.

If I could go back, I'd consider simply building a quiet NAS with SSD's, small managed switch and building multiples(if needed) of something like the Intel NUC. Pricey in the long term, but great flexibility and power usage.

hmm, I could do with a new NAS but then i could do with a lot of new things. It is something to consider.

obriendj

Thanks to both Bloodbath and Cuddlesworth for their invaluable input.
I really do appreciate this. It will be a couple of weeks before i order the gear, but this has given me some very helpful tips.

BloodBath

If you're going for the 3570k you will need an overclocking board and better cpu cooler to go with it. I don't think the extra cpu speed will make much of a difference to the vm performance tbh. You would be better off putting the money into the ssd. You could drop 2 of the hdd's, 16gb of ram and grab the 512gb Samsung 840 evo ssd.