simple question

Do you think women ever really and truly understand male sexuality?

--Kaiser--

That's not a simple question

maguic24

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think women ever really and truly understand male sexuality?

Do you think men ever really and truly understand female sexuality?

Rev Hellfire

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think women ever really and truly understand male sexuality?

What's your view ?

maguic24

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think women ever really and truly understand male sexuality?

I would also like to point out that every individual has different sexual preferences, whether they are male or female. You can't just put all women/men into one category and try and understand their sexuality.

We would all be a boring lot if that was the case. Pepsi or coke? I prefer Pepsi but that does not mean all females prefer Pepsi.....

maguic24

maguic24 wrote: »

I would also like to point out that every individual has different sexual preferences, whether they are male or female. You can't just put all women/men into one category and try and understand their sexuality.

We would all be a boring lot if that was the case. Pepsi or coke? I prefer Pepsi but that does not mean all females prefer Pepsi.....

It is not preferences I am talking that is a simple question, I am talking about understanding at a very psychological level.

My opinion is I honestly don't know. At a practical level I can never be a man so in a way how could a woman really understand it.

We live in a sex saturated society, information is easily available on every topic under the sun information on sex is not restricted or repressed in any way and yet you still get fundamental miss understanding between men and women on human sexuality.

My husband made what I though was a slightly mean remark about teenage boys and sex one day and I told him I though it was mean and he said truly you have no idea of what it is like to be a teenage boy.

strobe

Some do, some don't, some do to some degree, some others think they have a far better understanding of it than they do or hold misconceptions about it, some have no interest in trying to understand it.

Male sexuality isn't some mystical arcane thing anymore than female sexuality is. While it's not possible for a woman to know exactly what it's like to be a man in a sexual sense and visa versa, we're a lot more similar than we are different (although there absolutely are general differences).


I've certainly known women whom have had a very accurate and knowlegable understanding of male sexuality, and of course some who didn't quite

So really depends on the person, how much of a genuine interest they've taken in trying to understand, and how they've gone about trying to gain that understanding.

maguic24

mariaalice wrote: »

It is not preferences I am talking that is a simple question, I am talking about understanding at a very psychological level.

My opinion is I honestly don't know. At a practical level I can never be a man so in a way how could a woman really understand it.

We live in a sex saturated society, information is easily available on every topic under the sun information on sex is not restricted or repressed in any way and yet you still get fundamental miss understanding between men and women on human sexuality.

My husband made what I though was a slightly mean remark about teenage boys and sex one day and I told him I though it was mean and he said truly you have no idea of what it is like to be a teenage boy.

He only knows what it was like being a teenage boy as himself. He does not know what it is like to be every single teenage boy on the planet...

kiffer

Simple question?
Simple answer: no.
More complex answer: yes but there's a broad spectrum within both male and female sexuallities...
Even less simple answer than that: no.

Zombienosh

mariaalice wrote: »

Do you think women ever really and truly understand male sexuality?

So how do you account for the lack of shared meaning/understanding around sexual issues that often occur between some men and women.

strobe

mariaalice wrote: »

My husband made what I though was a slightly mean remark about teenage boys and sex one day and I told him I though it was mean and he said truly you have no idea of what it is like to be a teenage boy.

What'd he say btw, if you don't mind me asking?

It wasn't anything big just a comment after reading a silly cartoon that showed a teenage male getting exited because he was looking at some female underwear on a washing line.

cantdecide

mariaalice wrote: »

So how do you account for the lack of shared meaning/understanding around sexual issues that often occur between some men and women.

Lack of communication or laziness are the obvious ones I suppose.

clairefontaine

mariaalice wrote: »

So how do you account for the lack of shared meaning/understanding around sexual issues that often occur between some men and women.

There could be a million and one reasons there.

I don't know about you but I always went to mixed gendered schools.

While this gave us some exposure to each other, the boys definitely kept things from us. They toned down their language in front of us, they kept their racism to themselves if they had any, they kept the talk clean and tidy ....for the most part. But even with that, things slipped.

Maybe things have changed now, but I think, at least for my generation and where i was educated, men and boys edited themselves so as not to offend the women, who, of course were reared by a different morality and whom may or nderstanding their own sexuality either.

Woowoowoowoo

You can never truly understand male sexuality with being a male IMO. It can be described to you, but so can the taste of strawberry ice cream, you never truly understand the taste of ice cream until you actually taste it.

Without being a man you will never know how it feels when you see a hot woman walk by with a tight ass, perfectly shaped breasts, smooth skin, a beautiful face and long flowing silky hair. You will never understand truly the physiological reaction it has in a man and how it is experienced.

Someone could describe the Sistine chapel ceiling to you in fine detail. But that is completely different to being there and seeing it for yourself.

jaffacakesyum

Woowoowoowoo wrote: »

You can never truly understand male sexuality with being a male IMO. It can be described to you, but so can the taste of strawberry ice cream, you never truly understand the taste of ice cream until you actually taste it.

Without being a man you will never know how it feels when you see a hot woman walk by with a tight ass, perfectly shaped breasts, smooth skin, a beautiful face and long flowing silky hair. You will never understand truly the physiological reaction it has in a man and how it is experienced.

Someone could describe the Sistine chapel ceiling to you in fine detail. But that is completely different to being there and seeing it for yourself.

What if you're a lesbian/bisexual?

strobe

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

What if you're a lesbian/bisexual?

I think the salient part of his post was the 'physiological reaction' bit, not the part about the beautiful woman.

The Corinthian

mariaalice wrote: »

We live in a sex saturated society, information is easily available on every topic under the sun information on sex is not restricted or repressed in any way and yet you still get fundamental miss understanding between men and women on human sexuality.

Oh, I think we have quite a bit of restriction on even discussing human sexuality beyond some kind of freak show entertainment. If you look at threads on the personal issues or relationships boards; whenever some form of non-standard sexual practice or lifestyle comes up, you'll see an avalanche of moralizing over the subject.

For example, suggest you're into swinging or polyamory and you're guaranteed to get people to pontificate that if you're into being with other people you shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place. Or that if you're into [random kinky sexual practice], you're going to have comments about how it's disgusting, unnatural or people posting only to say how they would never do so themselves (presumably just to make sure everyone knows they wouldn't).

As a result, people end up being far more cautious about discussing their sexuality, for fear of being judged - some so far as not even discussing it with their spouses or partners of years. And without discussion, you get ignorance; regardless of your gender.

GalwayGuy2

^^^^

I sometimes wonder about peoples different reactions to someone saying something because of their gender.

If I heard a woman say, "God, I'd love to tie that man down and give it to him as hard as I can.", I'd probably see her as progressive and comfortable with her sexuality. If a little bit carried away :P

But, If I heard a man say the above, I would probably think of him as someone who is oppressive, or might even turn into a rapist.

While my reaction is not, in any way, rational, it's pretty hard to get past stereotypes you have in your head.

GalwayGuy2

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

^^^^

I sometimes wonder about peoples different reactions to someone saying something because of their gender.

If I heard a woman say, "God, I'd love to tie that man down and give it to him as hard as I can.", I'd probably see her as progressive and comfortable with her sexuality. If a little bit carried away :P

But, If I heard a man say the above, I would probably think of him as someone who is oppressive, or might even turn into a rapist.

While my reaction is not, in any way, rational, it's pretty hard to get past stereotypes you have in your head.

So true for example my husband is far more romantic that me in fact I know lots of men who are far more romantic than their partners, yet in my head I believe women are always more romantic than men.

cantdecide

mariaalice wrote: »

So true for example my husband is far more romantic that in fact I know lots of men who are far more romantic than their partners, yet in my head I believe women are always more romantic than men.

Why do you think men write better love songs?

/runs

Woodward

cantdecide wrote: »

Why do you think men write better love songs?

/runs

Men have more to gain from being romantic. In general women dont want to be romantic per se, they want a man to be romantic towards them

Its more the stereotype of men always forgetting anniversaries and special date in a relationship in fact I know lots of men who make much more of a fuss about that sort of thing that there wives do, yet there is still the stereotype of around these issues.

newport2

mariaalice wrote: »

Its more the stereotype of men always forgetting anniversaries and special date in a relationship in fact I know lots of men who make much more of a fuss about that sort of thing that there wives do, yet there is still the stereotype of around these issues.

Lots of guys make much more of a fuss than their wife for a simple reason; they'll be up the creek if they don't. That's partly the reason why the stereotype exists I expect. A man forgetting an anniversary indirectly generates a lot more noise than a woman doing so.

Wibbs

mariaalice wrote: »

So true for example my husband is far more romantic that me in fact I know lots of men who are far more romantic than their partners, yet in my head I believe women are always more romantic than men.

There are a few of those stereotypes when it comes to men/women and relationships*. Another is that men respond to relationship stresses and breakups better, when in fact the opposite is true. Further on that front there's a stereotype that suggests divorce hits women harder emotionally, when again you could argue it's the opposite again. The rate of suicide among divorced women drops compared to the average, whereas the rate of suicide among divorced men is three times higher. Given that the majority of divorces/breakups are instigated by women this would appear to be obvious, but apparently not.

Just on personal observation I've noted men to be the more romantic gender in general. Certainly when younger. Springing from that I've also noted that they tend to be the gender who are more likely to be "damaged" long term over a bad relationship(s). IE I know far more men than women who become cynical, even bitter over a past failed relationship.





*IMHO men and women, the genders are the same or different as individuals are, except when it comes to romance/sex/relationships. That's where the diffs tend to show. Obviously I'm speaking in general terms here

Wibbs

newport2 wrote: »

Lots of guys make much more of a fuss than their wife for a simple reason; they'll be up the creek if they don't.

That fear would for me signal I'm in the wrong relationship. If I'm doing something because of fear of reprisals rather than out of a genuine emotional want that would be game over for me.

The Corinthian

Wibbs wrote: »

Just on personal observation I've noted men to be the more romantic gender in general. Certainly when younger.

That would be because the social dynamics remain that the man must chase or woo the woman; from an anthropological point of view men must prove to their prospective mate that they are going to be able to provide for the woman (and children) and devoted (in love) solely to her (thus will consistently provide in the long term), before she accepts him for mating.

Springing from that I've also noted that they tend to be the gender who are more likely to be "damaged" long term over a bad relationship(s). IE I know far more men than women who become cynical, even bitter over a past failed relationship.

That probably has more to do with the legal consequences of a bad relationship. Given the biases in law that work against men in divorce and separation law, I'd be very surprised if any man could get divorced without some element of cynicism creeping in.

Wibbs wrote: »

That fear would for me signal I'm in the wrong relationship. If I'm doing something because of fear of reprisals rather than out of a genuine emotional want that would be game over for me.

True, but I'd also remind you that just because you get your ear chewed off, doesn't mean you didn't deserve it. People can fail to prioritize what's important to their partner and, basically, forget about it. Part of any healthy relationship is being able to also think about your partner's needs too.

Of course, if this is all one way, then you've a very unhealthy relationship there.

Anyhow, wasn't this thread supposed to be about (male) sexuality?

Wibbs

The Corinthian wrote: »

That probably has more to do with the legal consequences of a bad relationship. Given the biases in law that work against men in divorce and separation law, I'd be very surprised if any man could get divorced without some element of cynicism creeping in.

Doesn't need to go even that far. I'm talking about BF/GF stuff, no houses, kids or law courts involved.

newport2

Wibbs wrote: »

That fear would for me signal I'm in the wrong relationship. If I'm doing something because of fear of reprisals rather than out of a genuine emotional want that would be game over for me.

I think fear is too strong a word for what I'm talking about. I'm definitely not in the wrong relationship, however if I forgot an anniversary I would get a lot of grief because it would upset my wife. On top of that, her friends would be asking her what we did for it, etc. A lot of talk about it would result.
If she forgot it, it wouldn't bother me. My mates would not have a notion what date I got married, not to mention being remotely interested in what we did to mark our anniversary. No talk about it.

tigger123

Wibbs wrote: »

There are a few of those stereotypes when it comes to men/women and relationships*. Another is that men respond to relationship stresses and breakups better, when in fact the opposite is true. Further on that front there's a stereotype that suggests divorce hits women harder emotionally, when again you could argue it's the opposite again. The rate of suicide among divorced women drops compared to the average, whereas the rate of suicide among divorced men is three times higher. Given that the majority of divorces/breakups are instigated by women this would appear to be obvious, but apparently not.

Just on personal observation I've noted men to be the more romantic gender in general. Certainly when younger. Springing from that I've also noted that they tend to be the gender who are more likely to be "damaged" long term over a bad relationship(s). IE I know far more men than women who become cynical, even bitter over a past failed relationship.





*IMHO men and women, the genders are the same or different as individuals are, except when it comes to romance/sex/relationships. That's where the diffs tend to show. Obviously I'm speaking in general terms here

Gonna make a massive generalization here, but I think women usually have a better support network around them following a break up, more so than men. They're also more willing to talk it through with friends and family etc, which is only going to help them get over it and move on. Some guys internalize these things a bit more which isn't healthy from an emotional point of view.

Bit off topic I know.

cantdecide

tigger123 wrote: »

...I think women usually have a better support network around them following a break up, more so than men...

Absolutely.

By and large, the female gender will share and do things together where it simply wouldn't occur to men. There are exceptions on both sides of course. I have other men that I would share things with and vice versa. In my case, because I've spent so much time single, I think I've had to push the boundaries of what I would regard as a typical male support network.

tigger123 wrote: »

...Some guys internalize these things a bit more which isn't healthy from an emotional point of view..

As men, we find it oh so easy. But it isn't just men that contribute to this. Maybe it's because women can fall back into the arms of other women more easily, it can be taken as the role of male friends to support men in times of difficulty but even in times of crisis, I think we remain more individualistic. I've had some very close friendships with women over the years and I'm by no means a 'man's man' but more often than not, I've always felt it would be taken as inappropriate to raise such issues with said female friends. Especially where said female friends are in relationships. This is all just my experience of course. Maybe it is off topic but I wouldn't mind some further thoughts if people were willing and it were permissible.

clairefontaine

cantdecide wrote: »

Absolutely.

By and large, the female gender will share and do things together where it simply wouldn't occur to men. There are exceptions on both sides of course. I have other men that I would share things with and vice versa. In my case, because I've spent so much time single, I think I've had to push the boundaries of what I would regard as a typical male support network.



As men, we find it oh so easy. But it isn't just men that contribute to this. Maybe it's because women can fall back into the arms of other women more easily, it can be taken as the role of male friends to support men in times of difficulty but even in times of crisis, I think we remain more individualistic. I've had some very close friendships with women over the years and I'm by no means a 'man's man' but more often than not, I've always felt it would be taken as inappropriate to raise such issues with said female friends. Especially where said female friends are in relationships. This is all just my experience of course. Maybe it is off topic but I wouldn't mind some further thoughts if people were willing and it were permissible.

I think when your opposite gender friends are married the nature of your openness changes. I wouldn't discuss things like that with married male friends for example.

I'm confused about this thread. It's gotten all very relationshipy. Anyhow I can't and won't speak for all women, but I don't think I'll ever fully understand male sexuality, if there is one. I feel bad they are under peer pressure to be sexually active with notches on the bedposts. I know of a couple of male high school students who pretended to be gay, to avoid the peer pressure of adolescent male sex scoring culture. I'd say it leads to a lot of weird behaviour, shame, etc...Can't be easy.

cantdecide

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'm confused about this thread. It's gotten all very relationshipy.

Jaysus why does everything with women have to be about sex :pac:

GalwayGuy2

Hmm, actually, are we talking about physical sexuality, emotional sexuality, or how society sees the different sexuality?

tigger123

cantdecide wrote: »

Absolutely.

By and large, the female gender will share and do things together where it simply wouldn't occur to men. There are exceptions on both sides of course. I have other men that I would share things with and vice versa. In my case, because I've spent so much time single, I think I've had to push the boundaries of what I would regard as a typical male support network.

I agree with you. My own circle of male friends would be far from the norm in terms of what is discussed and what could be discussed, and each one of us is all the healthier for it. One friend in particular has been through the mill in the last 6 months and I think leaning on the rest of us a bit has been a great benefit.

cantdecide wrote: »

As men, we find it oh so easy. But it isn't just men that contribute to this. Maybe it's because women can fall back into the arms of other women more easily, it can be taken as the role of male friends to support men in times of difficulty but even in times of crisis, I think we remain more individualistic. I've had some very close friendships with women over the years and I'm by no means a 'man's man' but more often than not, I've always felt it would be taken as inappropriate to raise such issues with said female friends. Especially where said female friends are in relationships. This is all just my experience of course. Maybe it is off topic but I wouldn't mind some further thoughts if people were willing and it were permissible.

I'm not so sure I'd agree with you there. I think women in your life (not you're life, but any mans life) would be far more receptive to helping you with a problem than you would give them credit for. Women are (again generalising here) far more likely to turn to their support network and discuss a problem when it arises in their own lives, it's kind of how they solve things. So a man in their life saying 'I have an issue about this or that, can you help talk it out with me' isn't going to be unusual at all. In short, women share with each other all the time, and I'm sure they'd be happy for you to share with them too.

28064212

mariaalice wrote: »

So how do you account for the lack of shared meaning/understanding around sexual issues that often occur between some men and women.

Because homosexuals never have trouble in that area

MaxWig

Its hard not to accept Freud's view on this.

We all, women included, wanna fcuk everything, always.

But, alas, we don't

MaxWig

MaxWig wrote: »

Its hard not to accept Freud's view on this.

We all, women included, wanna fcuk everything, always.

But, alas, we don't

I always felt that was the worst kind of stereotyping, especially since it's usually only applied to men. I'm pretty sure most men (or women) don't want to rumpy-pumpy everything, always.

Freud was right about one thing though. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Maybe it's your Freudian slip showing

MaxWig

Candie wrote: »

I always felt that was the worst kind of stereotyping, especially since it's usually only applied to men. I'm pretty sure most men (or women) don't want to rumpy-pumpy everything, always.

Freud was right about one thing though. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Maybe it's your Freudian slip showing

Haha, maybe you're right.

I don't say it just to be controversial though.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jul/05/what-do-women-want-daniel-bergner

I haven't read this particular book, but I've read enough studies/books on the topic to satisfy myself that sexual desire is an insatiable drive in humans.

MaxWig

MaxWig wrote: »

I haven't read this particular book, but I've read enough studies/books on the topic to satisfy myself that sexual desire is an insatiable drive in humans.

Most of us would be slightly more discerning than anything, always though.

MaxWig

Candie wrote: »

Most of us would be slightly more discerning than anything, always though.

I'm not suggesting we act on it, or even that we're aware of it.

But it's there, just underneath, like Jaws

MaxWig

MaxWig wrote: »

I'm not suggesting we act on it, or even that we're aware of it.

But it's there, just underneath, like Jaws

And like Jaws, it would leave a nasty mess if it was acted on.

Still don't buy it though.

People have triggers they find attractive and the rest of humanity don't ring the same bells or register on the erotic richter scale. Just as well, or we'd get nothing done.

MaxWig

Candie wrote: »

And like Jaws, it would leave a nasty mess if it was acted on.

Still don't buy it though.

People have triggers they find attractive and the rest of humanity don't ring the same bells or register on the erotic richter scale. Just as well, or we'd get nothing done.

Sure, I particularly enjoy Monkfish, if it's not on the menu, I'll eat sardines.

The 'triggers' are the result of socialisation, just as the tendency to 'not fcuk' everything is the result of socialisation/civilisation.

Wibbs

Not all triggers would be socialisation. There are pretty standard physical triggers in male female attraction, external displays of reproductive fitness that are pretty hardwired.

Maybe it more the ethics ( not morality which is a different concept ) of sexuality. For example if you look at the threads on prostitution when you get past the usual justifying it response's or the legalise it bla bla and so on. The sheer bafflement of some men as to why woman object to it is amazing or that the idea that the availability of prostitution is saving women and children from being sexuality assaulted, that such drivel should still be current, along with the underlying notion that male sexuality is some how uncontrollable, or the very nuanced difference between male and female ideas of what a casual relationship is.

MaxWig

mariaalice wrote: »

Maybe it more the ethics ( not morality which is a different concept ) of sexuality. For example if you look at the threads on prostitution when you get past the usual justifying it response's or the legalise it bla bla and so on. The sheer bafflement of some men as to why woman object to it is amazing or that the idea that the availability of prostitution is saving women and children from being sexuality assaulted, that such drivel should still be current, along with the underlying notion that male sexuality is some how uncontrollable, or the very nuanced difference between male and female ideas of what a casual relationship is.

I agree with some of what you say - re preventing sexual assaults and that male sexuality is 'uncontrollable' etc.

However I would have to be honest and say I am a little confused as to why 'women object to it'.

I should add that I'm not sure they do. Asides from the difficulty we find in ascribing any one belief to such a large and varied group, I'm sure there are very many women who either do not care either way, or who would simply be against anything approaching coercion/trafficking etc..

But outside these concerns, I would have to admit to being baffled to any objections from men or women

starWave

There's a book called Sperm Wars which explains why men do what they do, and why women do what they do. I think some people find it controversial, but it made sense to me, and cleared everything up.

In summary, we do a lot of things consciously, but there are unconscious reasons why we do things, and it all comes down to evolutionary advantage and spreading your genes.

GalwayGuy2

Maybe it more the ethics ( not morality which is a different concept ) of sexuality

Tbh, whether you think it's right or wrong, a lot of men don't think "Victim" when they hear the word "prostitute".

The sheer bafflement of some men as to why woman object to it is amazing or that the idea that the availability of prostitution is saving women and children from being sexuality assaulted, that such drivel should still be current, along with the underlying notion that male sexuality is some how uncontrollable, or the very nuanced difference between male and female ideas of what a casual relationship is.

Also, in my experience, the part in bold is an even split between the genders. You'd be suprised how many people think a man going to a prostitute will turn into a rapist.

cantdecide

mariaalice wrote: »

Maybe it more the ethics ( not morality which is a different concept ) of sexuality. For example if you look at the threads on prostitution when you get past the usual justifying it response's or the legalise it bla bla and so on. The sheer bafflement of some men as to why woman object to it is amazing or that the idea that the availability of prostitution is saving women and children from being sexuality assaulted, that such drivel should still be current, along with the underlying notion that male sexuality is some how uncontrollable, or the very nuanced difference between male and female ideas of what a casual relationship is.

When I look at your own OP I wonder if you have trouble understanding that other women and some men are going to agree with your stance and some won't. Not everything comes down to a debate about prostitution. Not everything is about a lack of male sympathy to women. These are human issues, not gender issues, IMO. At the moment, to be blunt, I feel like saying that these debates don't come down to the women that agree with you VS the men that don't.

The Corinthian

mariaalice wrote: »

The sheer bafflement of some men as to why woman object to it is amazing or that the idea that the availability of prostitution is saving women and children from being sexuality assaulted, that such drivel should still be current, along with the underlying notion that male sexuality is some how uncontrollable, or the very nuanced difference between male and female ideas of what a casual relationship is.

Oh Christ...

To begin with, I doubt that anyone, male or female, supports child prostitution, so slipping that into a debate on prostitution is a straw man at the best of times.

Secondly, one has consider what sexually assaulted means, which in some circles has gone so far as to be defined as any sex for sale. The irony is that we can easily place marriage in the same category, if that's the case.

All before one considers if even women really oppose prostitution. Go to a country where it's legal and regulated and you will tend to find that's the minority position, even with women. Or the fact that feminism itself is split on the subject.

And finally there's the typical omission of men who mist be saved - 'women and children' but never men it seems. This, along with the implied denial that women can be clients of prostitution (the two typically go hand in hand) is another example of what a load of sexist tripe you've just come out with.

Given you're the OP here, did you really come here to understand male sexuality, because you're not doing too well if that's what you're coming out with now.