Maths Qualification

Rubiee

I've been teaching Maths for a while but need to complete some OU modules to have it recognised as one of my subjects by the teaching council.
Just wondering if anyone has completed the following modules with the OU: MST121, MS221 and MS208.
If so how did you find the workload while working full time?
When are the exams usually?
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks.

doc_17

I did M208 - Pure Maths. I started it in February and it lasted to October. There were approx. 8 assignments, 1 per month, and a terminal exam. Think the weighting was 50/50 for assignments and exam.

I spent around 10 hours per week at it and it was very handy to have the summer to do it. The workload was fine but you do have be disciplined in school time and spend 1-2 hours per day at it. I was lucky in that I did the Feb-Oct running of the course instead of the Oct-May version.

I think the recommended time for it 16 hours per week, and that's if you have a grounding in Maths but if you have taught the old LCHL syllabus you should get it done in less time than that.

Have you considered the part time course that the dept are running in various centres around the country in order to train maths teachers?

rainbowtrout

I did all three of those modules. MST121 is fine, it goes a bit beyond HL LC maths so you should be ok for that one. I think it runs now from Oct-June with exams being around the second week of June. Similar case with MS221. It would be perfectly possible to do the two of them at the same time. They are designed to be taken at the same time, but maybe then take M208 the following year on it's own and give yourself a bit of breathing space.

Miss Lockhart

I've done all three. I would do MST121 and MS221 together but I would leave M208 to the following year.

There is no exam for MST121.

You can start MS221 in February and the exam will be in October so I would start MST121 in October then MS221 in February, then M208 the following October and the exam will be in June.

Be aware that MS221 will be offered for the last time in October 2014. I'm sure it will be replaced with a similar module but no doubt there will be hassle with the TC about the change.

Rubiee

doc_17 wrote: »

Have you considered the part time course that the dept are running in various centres around the country in order to train maths teachers?

Thanks for the info. I have considered it but think the OU might be a better route to fit in with family lifestyle.

doc_17

I think the 3 course that you are thinking of doing with the OU could involve more work that the dept one. There are also tutorials for the M208 course usually held on a Saturday in either Belfast or Dublin. I didn't bother with them though.

Rubiee

doc_17 wrote: »

I think the 3 course that you are thinking of doing with the OU could involve more work that the dept one. There are also tutorials for the M208 course usually held on a Saturday in either Belfast or Dublin. I didn't bother with them though.

Thanks. I'll have another look at it and see. It is more the logistics of the Dept one and babysitters etc that would pose a difficulty.

Geologyrocks

I just have a question about the free maths course. Does anyone know if there is any requirement on the number of hours of maths that you need to be teaching to get on the course? Is a couple of classes enough?

boogle

doc_17 wrote: »

I think the 3 course that you are thinking of doing with the OU could involve more work that the dept one. There are also tutorials for the M208 course usually held on a Saturday in either Belfast or Dublin. I didn't bother with them though.

Have to disagree with you there. Year one of the Prof. Dip in Maths for Teaching (the Dept one) was spent going to 2/3 hour Lectures in a "Regional" centre every Monday and Thursday, with a few Saturdays during the year thrown in (Attendance heavily monitored). A week just spent at Summer School. Oh and two exams before Christmas, Two just after easter and one more in June. Assignments due in every few weeks. Same again this year, along with an Action Research project and 5 Teaching and Learning Plans to be submitted.

doc_17

boogle wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. Year one of the Prof. Dip in Maths for Teaching (the Dept one) was spent going to 2/3 hour Lectures in a "Regional" centre every Monday and Thursday, with a few Saturdays during the year thrown in (Attendance heavily monitored). A week just spent at Summer School. Oh and two exams before Christmas, Two just after easter and one more in June. Assignments due in every few weeks. Same again this year, along with an Action Research project and 5 Teaching and Learning Plans to be submitted.

I'd rather do that than 3 Open University courses. The cost alone would be around €5000 for the 3 OU courses which would take the same time, 2 years PT, along with 10-16 hours ( maybe more depending on your ability) of independent study per week. Added to that are assignments, 8 for Pure Maths alone, tutorials which are only in Dublin or Belfast and final exams.

The Dept course is free isn't it? If you are currently teaching in a school?

doc_17

boogle wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. Year one of the Prof. Dip in Maths for Teaching (the Dept one) was spent going to 2/3 hour Lectures in a "Regional" centre every Monday and Thursday, with a few Saturdays during the year thrown in (Attendance heavily monitored). A week just spent at Summer School. Oh and two exams before Christmas, Two just after easter and one more in June. Assignments due in every few weeks. Same again this year, along with an Action Research project and 5 Teaching and Learning Plans to be submitted.

I'd rather do that than 3 Open University courses. The cost alone would be around €5000 for the 3 OU courses which would take the same time, 2 years PT, along with 10-16 hours ( maybe more depending on your ability) of independent study per week. Added to that are assignments, 8 for Pure Maths alone, tutorials which are only in Dublin or Belfast and final exams.

The Dept course is free isn't it? If you are currently teaching in a school?

boogle

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd rather do that than 3 Open University courses. The cost alone would be around €5000 for the 3 OU courses which would take the same time, 2 years PT, along with 10-16 hours ( maybe more depending on your ability) of independent study per week. Added to that are assignments, 8 for Pure Maths alone, tutorials which are only in Dublin or Belfast and final exams.

The Dept course is free isn't it? If you are currently teaching in a school?

The course is free. But you suggested that it was easier than the OU modules, not cheaper, which is what I disagree with. I've actually done one of those OU modules before starting the Dept course so I can compare both.

doc_17

boogle wrote: »

The course is free. But you suggested that it was easier than the OU modules, not cheaper, which is what I disagree with. I've actually done one of those OU modules before starting the Dept course so I can compare both.

Perhaps more convienent to do the dept one than the OU. As the OU ones then have to get recognition from the TC, unless that's done already?

There are two of those OU course that are relatively straight forward but the longer and more expensive one is a good enough standard of Maths. Obviously having never done the dept one I'm not in a great position to compare both of them exactly, but doing 1 free PT course over 2 years that is guaranteed to be recognised by your employer over one that will cost €4000-5000 over 2 years and then getting into a correspondence battle with the TC is an easy choice for me!!!

But I respect your point of view even if I don't agree with it!!

boogle

Well I agree with you on those points: it being free is obviously better than forking out a few grand, and the TC recognition is on place so that's great. Incidentally, we didn't get word from the TC that they would recognise our course until April this year! But now that's all sorted. In those respects, it's a great course, and I'm really grateful that I got a place on it.

That said, last year was the hardest year of my career. Working full time and driving 1 hour to and from a three hour Maths lecture twice a week really took its toll. I suppose neither course is for the faint-hearted!

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

Perhaps more convienent to do the dept one than the OU. As the OU ones then have to get recognition from the TC, unless that's done already?

There are two of those OU course that are relatively straight forward but the longer and more expensive one is a good enough standard of Maths. Obviously having never done the dept one I'm not in a great position to compare both of them exactly, but doing 1 free PT course over 2 years that is guaranteed to be recognised by your employer over one that will cost €4000-5000 over 2 years and then getting into a correspondence battle with the TC is an easy choice for me!!!

But I respect your point of view even if I don't agree with it!!

That's unfounded scaremongering. The OU modules listed at the start of the thread are specifically recognised by the Teaching Council. It was in the May 2011 issue of Astir (or some date around then). Once you have the three modules completed, you send your college stamped transcript to the teaching council, cover letter, and they add the subject to your profile. It took less than a week for them to update mine.

doc_17

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's unfounded scaremongering. The OU modules listed at the start of the thread are specifically recognised by the Teaching Council. It was in the May 2011 issue of Astir (or some date around then). Once you have the three modules completed, you send your college stamped transcript to the teaching council, cover letter, and they add the subject to your profile. It took less than a week for them to update mine.

Apologies. Is ASTIR the ASTI Information magazine? As a TUI member I don't get ASTIR. I only had to do the M208 course and it took me 8 months after I had finished it to get it recognised despite the fact that before I started it, I was corresponding with them for almost a year looking for clarification and a definite answer that if I did that course it would be deemed to be acceptable by them.

So I am only speaking from my experience, it was not deliberate scaremongering. I just didn't know that the course had been granted recognition so I think the term you used i sharsh. I was only trying to lay out the options as I saw them from the experiences that I had.

petronius

A colleague did the OU modules to get augment her degree so as the Teaching Council would ratify her for Maths. She said it was a challenge but well worth it she did the modules while she was working part time (and pregnant).

I dont know if it was snobbery from the ASTI or just misinformation but surely the stake holders in insuring we have qualified teachers especially in disciplines such as Maths and Science should make the process straightforward.

The route for people with industry experience into teaching where their experience can be a massive asset to the education system should be promoted and facilitated.

doc_17

petronius wrote: »

A colleague did the OU modules to get augment her degree so as the Teaching Council would ratify her for Maths. She said it was a challenge but well worth it she did the modules while she was working part time (and pregnant).

I dont know if it was snobbery from the ASTI or just misinformation but surely the stake holders in insuring we have qualified teachers especially in disciplines such as Maths and Science should make the process straightforward.

The route for people with industry experience into teaching where their experience can be a massive asset to the education system should be promoted and facilitated.

This is true. But I didn't hear Engineers Ireland being as vociferous before the crash as they have been since. Truth is very few wanted to leave well-paid industry jobs 10 years ago to work in schools where the pay wasn't as good.

derb12

The closing date for each of the 3 OU courses is 5th Sept so you would need to get your skates on if you are considering that route.
The course dates changed a while ago and now they all run Oct to Apr/May with exam in June (not great for teachers).
I'd second doing MST121 and MS221 together - very do-able and if you are teaching LC maths already then the vast majority of it will be familiar to you.
Note also that MST121 is running in its current form for the last time this autumn, so it might take a while for the TC to recognise whatever replaces it.
But as Doc_17 pointed out above, depending on how many ECTs you have already the TC might recognise M208 on it's own - it would be advisable to check this out in advance. I had it in writing from them that these three courses would be necessary and sufficient for me before I started.
Just a note about the OU in general. I've studied a lot with them over the years and find their general approach and materials fantastic. It fits very well with my schedule - I rarely kept to their timetable, study in bursts, get the assignments done (very good quality of feedback on these) and work my butt off prepping for exams. Also the exams were on in Dublin and you are allowed to bring in your book of formulae/tables which you can annotate as much as you like. Mine was teeming with examples and basically cog-notes but this is allowed!

Maguire667

Hello,

I was just wondering if someone could help me with a little query...

I have a bachelor of business studies from UL and was wondering if I could do the three OU modules before doing the PDE? Or do I have to do the PDE first?

Thanks for any information you can give me!

rainbowtrout

Maguire667 wrote: »

Hello,

I was just wondering if someone could help me with a little query...

I have a bachelor of business studies from UL and was wondering if I could do the three OU modules before doing the PDE? Or do I have to do the PDE first?

Thanks for any information you can give me!

Realistically you can do the modules any time you want, but in applying for the PDE they wouldn't be recognised as you can only add on subjects with the TC once you are registered with them as a qualified teacher. So you would still only be applying with the view to being a business teacher and then add it on when you are registering with the TC. That's how I imagine it would work.

Maguire667

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Realistically you can do the modules any time you want, but in applying for the PDE they wouldn't be recognised as you can only add on subjects with the TC once you are registered with them as a qualified teacher. So you would still only be applying with the view to being a business teacher and then add it on when you are registering with the TC. That's how I imagine it would work.

That's brilliant, thanks for the reply! I'm gonna pay the ou next week. Just wanted to make sure that the maths would still be recognised. Missed the PDE for this year so may as well get the ball rolling with the maths.

Rubiee

Thanks for all the input. I registered with the OU last night so we'll see how that goes.