Goat farming

farming93

Just want to get opinions on goat farming as I am looking for an alternative enterprise to beef/sheep. We have 25acres of grassland, seven acres of potatoes and two sheds that are currently used for machinery, stock, hay these could be easily converted into sheds for goats. (The farm used to be a Dairy farm for cows) I would be able to get a loan to set everything up and am not a bit afraid of the workload involved, in my understanding the market would be selling your own cheese/milk directly to the consumer. If anyone can give me their own experience/ opinion on stocking rates, investment costs, markets and /or any courses/ work experience available I would appreciate it.

Conmaicne Mara

I don't have any but looked into it before. I think you're looking at having the goats kept indoors and bringing feed into them? Don't think they thought much of the Irish weather. If that's changed since I wouldn't mind knowing. If I remember right there was a bit on ETTG about it before, foreign person living in Ireland had them.

reilig

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

If I remember right there was a bit on ETTG about it before, foreign person living in Ireland had them.

Cian Condon was the teagasc advisor who dealth with this farm and who spoke on the ETTG program. He's really approachable and full of information that would be useful to you.

http://www.teagasc.ie/areaunits/meathlouthdublin/staff/cian_condon.asp

farming93

Sound lads, Ill get in contact with him.

Markcheese

Direct marketing is possible but not easy, you'd want to be near Dublin ... Making cheese isn't all that simple...
Getting yr hands on high merit goats in large numbers not always easy...
Contact the large buyers of goats milk locally and nationally, glenisk,Ardsallagh,ect and any goats cheese makers too ...
If you've got a bit of acerage and have a dairy background go for it...

Conmaicne Mara

Did you do any more on the goats?

Muckit

Do all the male lads get the skip??

onyerbikepat

Big demand for goat meat in Dublin, if i'm not mistaken.

Muckit

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Big demand for goat meat in Dublin, if i'm not mistaken.

What does the man from galway do!?

mayota

Muckit wrote: »

What does the man from galway do!?

M6

gazahayes

Muckit wrote: »

Do all the male lads get the skip??

Usually a lot on donedeal for 10 or 15 takes a lot to fatten one and then to find a market. It'd be like jerseys.

gazahayes

Muckit wrote: »

Do all the male lads get the skip??

Usually a lot on donedeal for 10 or 15 takes a lot to fatten one and then to find a market. It'd be like jerseys.

farming93

My father went to look at a goat dairy farm alright but I havent managed to get around to it yet. May put that on my 2014 resolution!!

randomperson12

you should get stuck in but you need requirments like sheep they also need tags
goats are nice animals

randomperson12

goats are useful too

randomperson12

they provide meat mikl and a lawenmower

galwayhillbilly

I looked into this a few years ago, at the time it was all the rage however when the recession hit there was a bit of an oversupply, as people realised that their child that could not manage cows milk because of allergies actually wasn't that bad and could manage on normal milk. They went back to buying fancy cheese only at Christmas time instead of every week. The buyer were unable to use all the milk and the market collapsed for a time.
Luckily for me I procrastinated. The main thing that stopped me at the time was that there was a v high cost in buying in initial stock it was over priced at the time and the main milk buyer in the market was only interested in talking to suppliers with 200+ goats.

I wanted to start with 20 or 30 and portable milking machine and build up to maybe 150-200 over 5 years but there was no small cheese maker anywhere near me willing to buy that quantity of milk.
Anyway what I would say is the market is probably a bit more normal now replacements are a more normal price and there might be a few more takers for the milk out there with many ex builders/bankers/auctioneers having developed cheese and yoghurt enterprises, also there are probably no more shocks to come, in that demand is probably not going to dip suddenly again unless some idiot tries to pass off camel milk as goats milk and gets caught

exercise is the antidote

Anyone no of anybody milking goats?! Would the capital be as much as getting into cows?!?

sheebadog

Goats milk is making 67cpl here atm.

exercise is the antidote

sheebadog wrote: »

Goats milk is making 67cpl here atm.

Jeez..ye switching

sheebadog

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Jeez..ye switching

Ahmmm no! Hate the smell of goats.
Lots of people south of me milking goats. One lady is milking 1600 goats in a rotary parlor and I have to hand it to her she's a damn good businesswoman.

Greengrass1

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Anyone no of anybody milking goats?! Would the capital be as much as getting into cows?!?

I'd say biggest cost is the parlour. Also I don't know if milk is sold to coops like cows milk. Think majority manufactot the milk into cheese and such and sell it them selves.
Apart from that from what I know I think its just a straw bed and feed rail.

I don't know it topless cubicles would work though

exercise is the antidote

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I'd say biggest cost is the parlour. Also I don't know if milk is sold to coops like cows milk. Think majority manufactot the milk into cheese and such and sell it them selves.
Apart from that from what I know I think its just a straw bed and feed rail.

I don't know it topless cubicles would work though

Know of anybody milking goats in the south-east? Prob not, but I wouldn't mind having a look at a set-up.. I wonder is there more of a demand now with all this 2015 thing and 2020 targets to be hit!?!

Greengrass1

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Know of anybody milking goats in the south-east? Prob not, but I wouldn't mind having a look at a set-up.. I wonder is there more of a demand now with all this 2015 thing and 2020 targets to be hit!?!

Don't know much about it now tbh and don't know of anyone at it tbh.
Maybe try a Google search and ye might find something?

Just did a quick search there and teagasc have a blog about goat farming. Looks like good info in it.
Might be a start?

MickeyShtyles

Goats are a feckin arseache to keep.! Between leapin fences and findin ways out..... Good luck to ya!!

Greengrass1

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

Goats are a feckin arseache to keep.! Between leapin fences and findin ways out..... Good luck to ya!!

Keep em in the shed. Job sorted zero graze grass into them

Markcheese

Most lads keeps them in sheds 24 / 7 , biggest hurdle would be getting enough decent goats... (breeding for goats in Ireland wouldn't be a patch on France)
Get yr market sorted though, either glenisk or one of the cheesemakers.
Consistency of supply is an issue for them... small numbers in the industry though...

ganmo

the main purchaser of goats milk in Ireland is glenisk near tullamore

_Brian

ganmo wrote: »

the main purchaser of goats milk in Ireland is glenisk near tullamore

I was looking into this a few years ago and contacted them.. They said they were taking on no more producers and any extra demand would easily be met by taking milk from northern farmers.. TBH I thought they had a ****ty enough attitude.:(

gazahayes

_Brian wrote: »

I was looking into this a few years ago and contacted them.. They said they were taking on no more producers and any extra demand would easily be met by taking milk from northern farmers.. TBH I thought they had a ****ty enough attitude.:(

Think they changed their tune these days seems to be a fair demand for goats milk.

ganmo

I know a dairy goat farmer and 4 years ago suppliers were getting penalized for supplying more than their agreed volume, so they created the short supply themselves imo

galwayhillbilly

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Anyone no of anybody milking goats?! Would the capital be as much as getting into cows?!?

Probably not quite as dear as setting up for cows from scratch but still can be expensive.
The cheap way would be an outside system with field shelters and good electric fencing and a diy parlour possibly milking 2 at a time. Really only suitable for those wanting to start off small. Then you would have the problem of getting a buyer for the milk. Glenisk seem to only want bigger outfits. Also you will need some sort of a shed for kidding, as from what I have read, kidding outside is a big no-no, well bred dairy goats are not hardy at all. If you were sticking to this system long-term, you might have to look at crossing with a native breed to increase hardiness but yield will then go down.

The more capital intensive way, is a large straw bedded shed with zero-grazing, in order to justify this expense you need more goats, to make the return on investment and you will then need a more efficient and therefore more expensive milking parlour. The advantage of this is you can supply the main buyer on the market, you wont have issues with hygiene and milk quality and you wont have to be running around field trying to control crazy animals. If you already have a good big shed maybe a disused milking parlour that can be adapted and a good tractor, the changeover would not be as painful.
The biggest advantage of goats from a small farmers point of view is nitrates, for very small acreage you can have a good size goat herd without having to worry about nitrate levels

vinnie13

roughly how many goats per acre if been kept outdoors?

galwayhillbilly

You would need to look at nitrates rules as out-wintering involves lower stocking rate, I forget what a dairy goat produces in nitrates.

Markcheese

Well you can forget about out wintering for a start... Goats will put up with low temperatures no problem but they won't abide rain ...
There's a shortage of goats milk out there at the moment too , for anyone thinking of starting soon...

gazahayes

Markcheese wrote: »

Well you can forget about out wintering for a start... Goats will put up with low temperatures no problem but they won't abide rain ...
There's a shortage of goats milk out there at the moment too , for anyone thinking of starting soon...

Any idea on what you'd get per liter of milk?

exercise is the antidote

Markcheese wrote: »

Well you can forget about out wintering for a start... Goats will put up with low temperatures no problem but they won't abide rain ...
There's a shortage of goats milk out there at the moment too , for anyone thinking of starting soon...

Don't mean to be rude! But how do you know there is a shortage?!?

Mad4simmental

Any one know how they would go in a full indoor system? High input high output type job?

Markcheese

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Don't mean to be rude! But how do you know there is a shortage?!?

Because anyone I know who buys goats milk (mainly cheese makers ,but including one milk supplier ) can't get as much as they want and one cant get any ....
I'll ask about the price...
The big thing is to have your market nailed down , how much ,at what price at what time of the year... Delivery or
collection ? Quality /testing ? Ect...

Markcheese

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Any one know how they would go in a full indoor system? High input high output type job?

That's what most big producers do... A lot of French units would be full TMR , and rotary parlours, and all Ai as well.
Their genetics would be pretty top notch as well...

Mad4simmental

Markcheese wrote: »

That's what most big producers do... A lot of French units would be full TMR , and rotary parlours, and all Ai as well.
Their genetics would be pretty top notch as well...

Sum thing that has rattled around in my brain for a while. According to Tagasc the market is in over supply. I might get in contact with Glenisk and see what they say. Out of intrest how much is a well breed young female goat in her first lactation worth?

Miname

Was working for a lad recently who lived beside a 300 milking goat farm with facilities only a few years old. All is up for rent at the moment as he couldn't make a decent return.

exercise is the antidote

Miname wrote: »

Was working for a lad recently who lived beside a 300 milking goat farm with facilities only a few years old. All is up for rent at the moment as he couldn't make a decent return.

Where is that miname?

Miname

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Where is that miname?

Meath. Pm if you want anymore info

Base price

I was speaking to a lady last weekend that keeps/milks goats. She told me that goats milk is 70c a litre at the moment.
Her biggest problem is getting the milk to a processor at a reasonable cost.

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Because anyone I know who buys goats milk (mainly cheese makers ,but including one milk supplier ) can't get as much as they want and one cant get any ....
I'll ask about the price...
The big thing is to have your market nailed down , how much ,at what price at what time of the year... Delivery or
collection ? Quality /testing ? Ect...

Okay , spoke to a few people, plenty milk out there now , plenty people trying to supply summer milk only, it's winter milk is the big deal (and "winter" stretched on this year )
Glenisk paying f-all for summer milk only, which is one of the reasons the lad in Meath has his sheds for rent.

exercise is the antidote

Would the ones not in winter milk be grazing outdoors!?

Kevin the sheep

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Would the ones not in winter milk be grazing outdoors!?

Almost all goat milk producers keep them inside full time because goats are choose eaters they will spend the day in the ditch instead or eating grass and also they do not like rain actually they hate it and will give no milk if there not happy so people just keep them in full time and draw grass to them cheeper in long run because they produce a lot more milk they have a lovely temperament and don't like hardship or aggression it's much the same as milking cows just 2 teats instead of 4

galwayhillbilly

It would seem that there is no avoiding the high establishment costs for dairy goat farming. Obviously a milking parlour is a cost that no one can avoid. The large loose house shed to house a large number of goats all year round seems to be the biggest barrier for most people. could people brainstorm and post any low cost alternatives and comment on the +/- of each option and if you are aware of whether they have been tried or not
My own suggestion is a combination of the out-wintering pad and the poly-tunnel, you use an out-wintering pad as a base so that you don't have to pay for a big slab of concrete and the cheaper alternative of the Poly tunnel as the shelter. After a few years if the business works out, you can put down concrete and a few years after that you can sell on the poly tunnel and replace with a purpose built shed
I also toyed with the idea rotating between a few small sheltered paddocks with free access to my small existing shed and zero-grazing the rest of the farm.
All suggestions and comments welcome

Base price

I do not have figures to back up but I can guarantee you the cost of installing an out wintering pad and associated collection tank far outweigh that of a concrete slab. In addition, wood chip has become very expensive in the last 4 or 5 years due to the demand for same for wood pellet burners.
I reckon your idea of poly tunnels is doable but again they are not a long term solution. Sheep farmers who use poly tunnels normally only use them for pre and post lambing. I wonder how goats would manage in them 365 days.
I toyed with the idea of keeping milking goats a few years ago. I have several sheds, a stand off pad and enough land to supply fresh forage or hay. I would have had to convert the old parlour. The main reason that I did not go ahead with it was that the nearest processor/cheese maker (who could handle that volume of milk) was over 70 miles away and I would have to carry the cost of getting the milk there.
As I posted earlier a lady that I know with a herd of around 180 quit due to the costs of getting the milk delivered to a processor.
Maybe if you are lucky to be closer to a processor/cheese maker then it could be a runner for you. Also there are a number of smaller yards/sheds with small acreage available for rent maybe that could be an option for someone seriously interested.

galwayhillbilly

Base price wrote: »

I do not have figures to back up but I can guarantee you the cost of installing an out wintering pad and associated collection tank far outweigh that of a concrete slab. In addition, wood chip has become very expensive in the last 4 or 5 years due to the demand for same for wood pellet burners.
I reckon your idea of poly tunnels is doable but again they are not a long term solution. Sheep farmers who use poly tunnels normally only use them for pre and post lambing. I wonder how goats would manage in them 365 days.
I toyed with the idea of keeping milking goats a few years ago. I have several sheds, a stand off pad and enough land to supply fresh forage or hay. I would have had to convert the old parlour. The main reason that I did not go ahead with it was that the nearest processor/cheese maker (who could handle that volume of milk) was over 70 miles away and I would have to carry the cost of getting the milk there.
As I posted earlier a lady that I know with a herd of around 180 quit due to the costs of getting the milk delivered to a processor.
Maybe if you are lucky to be closer to a processor/cheese maker then it could be a runner for you. Also there are a number of smaller yards/sheds with small acreage available for rent maybe that could be an option for someone seriously interested.

I did worry myself about the polytunnel, if there are turnkey yards available to rent it is probably a good way to go for someone starting off, but as well as being close to the processing plant they'd have to be close to my own place as well, if you know of any place that is a bit closer to galway than yourself please PM me, the Galway Offaly border would suit both me and the location of the main processor( I don't ask for much)