Has anyone registered with teaching council with drink driving offence

Carlowgirl

Just wondering after a conversation with two friends regarding garda vetting... one guy has applied to return to college to do social care and got caught drunk on the street after his leaving cert years ago.ie. has a drunk and disorderly recod. another has a drink driving conviction from 8 years ago and is afraid he wont be allowed to register with teaching council when he applies so has put it off...
Has anyone ever gotten registered with teaching council with such offence and do they make a big deal out of it.. sounds like there crazy friends.. but they were both just silly and young at the time...

Mardy Bum

If he doesn't register he won't get paid from September.
Unsure about the TC policy on past offences. I'm sure there are people though with past offences who got through.

2011abc

Why am I surprised at the TC finding even more ways to make teachers lives hell?! If true this is staggeringly unjust !And three quarters of my schools staff would be struck off ! Parking ticket = Paedophile ?! Why do we put up with this cancer on our profession?

TheDriver

It would be beneficial for guidance from the TC about the garda vetting process i.e. where is the line drawn if offences appear on the record as no one seems to have this data available.
What if someone had an offence when 18-19, what degree must it be at. What if all the offences are not related to child protection as I assume that's the main reason why we do garda vetting after Ian Huntley and Soham murders of Jessica and Holly.

seavill

2011abc wrote: »

Why am I surprised at the TC finding even more ways to make teachers lives hell?! If true this is staggeringly unjust !And three quarters of my schools staff would be struck off ! Parking ticket = Paedophile ?! Why do we put up with this cancer on our profession?

Seriously the most over the top post I have ever seen on this website.

Firstly Garda vetting now applies across a huge range of sectors not just teaching. The same rules apply to each even now with the soon to be compulsory introduction to sports clubs the same rules will apply. So why is it the teaching council's fault???
I know people have problems with them but they can't be blamed for all lifes problems. There is no black and white answers in any of this that is why there is no guidance offered as to specific things that are in or out.
Take drink driving - should a particular teacher have a conviction for drink driving yet they may be asked to drive a group of students to an event - we all know it happens. Some of their parents may not be too happy. I am not saying they should be sacked or anything of the sort my point is there is more to it than meets the eye.

Secondly I can absolutely guarantee that 3/4 of your staff would not be struck off as you put it. This is a mad exaggeration being made.

Thirdly - parking ticket is not a criminal conviction so again a Ridiculous analogy being made here. A parking ticket has nothing to do with garda vetting.
And clearly everyone knows it does not = Paedophile as you put it.

And finally calling the TC a cancer in our profession when these rules are completely outside of their control. The Garda do the vetting based on government legislation. The TC do not make this stuff up. As I said they may be a nightmare to deal with at times but take a step back and re read what you have actually posted.

rainbowtrout

2011abc wrote: »

Why am I surprised at the TC finding even more ways to make teachers lives hell?! If true this is staggeringly unjust !And three quarters of my schools staff would be struck off ! Parking ticket = Paedophile ?! Why do we put up with this cancer on our profession?

Where did anybody say that the Teaching Council were making people's lives hell? The only person blowing this out of proportion is you by stating 'Parking Ticket = Paedophile'. This cancer as you put it isn't just confined to teaching, it covers people in other careers that will be working with people (many of them vulnerable), e.g. social workers.

I think that system should be more streamlined and you shouldn't have to get Garda vetting done for each new job, that getting it done periodically should cover you for any job you apply for in that time period.

OP, your friends will have to be garda vetted to meet Teaching Council requirements. Garda vetting has come about from child protection more than anything else. I doubt the Teaching Council is looking at my penalty points with suspicion. Again only my opinion but I would imagine that Garda vetting is being used to pick up convictions for assault, abuse of minors or adults etc, convictions for actions that could potentially put children ( or adults) in a harmful position if left in the care of that adult. I would also imagine that if a person had been refused registration due to drunk and disorderly fine or a minor traffic offence we'd have probably heard about it in the media by now.

Either way there's no point putting off the Garda vetting, it has to be done.

2011abc

seavill wrote: »

Take drink driving - should a particular teacher have a conviction for drink driving yet they may be asked to drive a group of students to an event - we all know it happens. Some of their parents may not be too happy. I am not saying they should be sacked or anything of the sort my point is there is more to it than meets the eye.

I think you should reread that bit !Wrong on so many levels .

Man how I despise this so called PC world ...Of course very few teachers would be driving students nowadays ...not PC!And adults are less and less involved in kids sport because of PC red tape . It sickens me that small sports clubs have to have "child protection policies" .And don't anyone dare suggest I'm not 'cogniscent' enough of abuse of kids . There was widespread knowledge of abuse perpetrators in the past but nobody did anything about it ! A blind eye was turned ...So nowadays in a knee jerk reaction people are put through misery . Young coaches can't work for months if not over a year waiting for 'vetting' . Potential adult volunteers have to pay considerable sums to join organisations so they can even apply to be vetted .
This stuff has really just arrived in the last 10/15 years .
It's no business whatsoever of a parent if a teacher has a drink driving conviction . They should be grateful if a teacher is willing to drive them around . The very idea that a teacher would drive students under the influence ! Ridiculous !

2011abc

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Where did anybody say that the Teaching Council were making people's lives hell? The only person blowing this out of proportion is you by stating 'Parking Ticket = Paedophile'. This cancer as you put it isn't just confined to teaching, it covers people in other careers that will be working with people (many of them vulnerable), e.g. social workers.

I think that system should be more streamlined and you shouldn't have to get Garda vetting done for each new job, that getting it done periodically should cover you for any job you apply for in that time period.

OP, your friends will have to be garda vetted to meet Teaching Council requirements. Garda vetting has come about from child protection more than anything else. I doubt the Teaching Council is looking at my penalty points with suspicion. Again only my opinion but I would imagine that Garda vetting is being used to pick up convictions for assault, abuse of minors or adults etc, convictions for actions that could potentially put children ( or adults) in a harmful position if left in the care of that adult. I would also imagine that if a person had been refused registration due to drunk and disorderly fine or a minor traffic offence we'd have probably heard about it in the media

Yes because the media have been such good supporters of teachers ! The TC are nothing but a thorn in the sides of teachers . When are we going to mimicking the UK ( in a useful way for once !) and scrap it ? They ROBBED me and countless other teachers saying unregistered teachers wouldn't be paid for the last 4-6 years when it was a blatant lie !In their early days they charged poor unfortunate young graduates big three figure if not four figure sums to 'vet ' their degrees for suitability . The grads had to submit detailed course content details , the TC robbed them too ! The Garda vetting process is one of the steps in TC registration . Despised by any sensible thinking person . Like the ten 2 hour lectures NQTs have to attend ... When I 'registered' as a teacher I paid a once off fee of 15-25 quid and that was it . Why should my younger peers be treated otherwise ? The successive and repeated degradation of NQTs terms have reduced teaching to unglorified child minding .(And us older teachers are being dragged down too in this race to the bottom )

rainbowtrout

2011abc wrote: »

I think you should reread that bit !Wrong on so many levels .

Man how I despise this so called PC world ...Of course very few teachers would be driving students nowadays ...not PC!And adults are less and less involved in kids sport because of PC red tape . It sickens me that small sports clubs have to have "child protection policies" .And don't anyone dare suggest I'm not 'cogniscent' enough of abuse of kids . There was widespread knowledge of abuse perpetrators in the past but nobody did anything about it ! A blind eye was turned ...So nowadays in a knee jerk reaction people are put through misery . Young coaches can't work for months if not over a year waiting for 'vetting' . Potential adult volunteers have to pay considerable sums to join organisations so they can even apply to be vetted .
This stuff has really just arrived in the last 10/15 years .
It's no business whatsoever of a parent if a teacher has a drink driving conviction . They should be grateful if a teacher is willing to drive them around . The very idea that a teacher would drive students under the influence ! Ridiculous !

Oh my good god. Possibly the worst post I've ever read on this forum. So you're sickened that society strives to protect the weakest? There was abuse in the past and yes nothing was done about it by and large but now that strategies are in place to protect children you have a problem with it?

Yes there are hold ups with the system, that is a problem with the way vetting is carried out (which I already mentioned) not why it is being carried out.

Again you're just making up stuff. Parents aren't going to be sent letters to say that Mr/Ms X Teacher has a drink driving condition, that is the business of the VEC/school that chooses to employ that teacher, if that is what arises as a result of Garda vetting. It doesn't even have to be related to the students, in the VEC system a teacher may be required to work in 2 centres which involves driving between the two. I work with a number of teachers in this position. If their licence has been revoked due to a drink driving offence it might cause difficulty in them being able to fulfill their duties, however that probably wouldn't arise until they were offered the job, but the question of transport between centres could easily arise in an interview.

As for a parent being grateful for having their children driven around by a teacher, it's not mutually exclusive from the expectancy that the teacher is fit to drive.

rainbowtrout

2011abc wrote: »

Yes because the media have been such good supporters of teachers ! The TC are nothing but a thorn in the sides of teachers . When are we going to mimicking the UK ( in a useful way for once !) and scrap it ? They ROBBED me and countless other teachers saying unregistered teachers wouldn't be paid for the last 4-6 years when it was a blatant lie !In their early days they charged poor unfortunate young graduates big three figure if not four figure sums to 'vet ' their degrees for suitability . The grads had to submit detailed course content details , the TC robbed them too ! The Garda vetting process is one of the steps in TC registration . Despised by any sensible thinking person . Like the ten 2 hour lectures NQTs have to attend ... When I 'registered' as a teacher I paid a once off fee of 15-25 quid and that was it . Why should my younger peers be treated otherwise ? The successive and repeated degradation of NQTs terms have reduced teaching to unglorified child minding .(And us older teachers are being dragged down too in this race to the bottom )

I can't actually take any of your points seriously when you just make stuff up and exaggerate to support those points. Legislation didn't go through until recently, which means you can't be paid if you are not registered. Had it gone through sooner, this would have happened sooner.

It costs €200 to get a degree assessed. Not four figure sums like you claim.

Garda vetting as has already been pointed out takes place in many jobs which involve working with people. It is a Teaching Council requirement because it is a legal requirement. It is beyond the control of the Teaching Council.

While some of our conditions have been eroded in more recent years, I'd like to think that there is some level of professionalism brought to areas of employment which require that people be vetted and that a person who is convicted of multiple assaults could be allowed to be in charge of children. This is what Garda vetting is for.

I taught a girl on a childcare course about 10 years ago (before Garda vetting came in and she didn't finish the course). Same girl since has 55 convictions and a stint in Mountjoy. Would I let her near children? Would I hell!!! Before Garda vetting came in, there might have been no way for a creche to obtain this information.

I have nothing to hide, they can vet me all they want. As far as I'm concerned it's just another form that has to be filled in. It doesn't preclude me or anyone else from behaving in an inappropriate way, but there is less likelihood of it happening in comparison to a person who has a history of it and has been convicted of it.

seavill

2011abc wrote: »

I think you should reread that bit !Wrong on so many levels .

Man how I despise this so called PC world ...Of course very few teachers would be driving students nowadays ...not PC!And adults are less and less involved in kids sport because of PC red tape . It sickens me that small sports clubs have to have "child protection policies" .And don't anyone dare suggest I'm not 'cogniscent' enough of abuse of kids . There was widespread knowledge of abuse perpetrators in the past but nobody did anything about it ! A blind eye was turned ...So nowadays in a knee jerk reaction people are put through misery . Young coaches can't work for months if not over a year waiting for 'vetting' . Potential adult volunteers have to pay considerable sums to join organisations so they can even apply to be vetted .
This stuff has really just arrived in the last 10/15 years .
It's no business whatsoever of a parent if a teacher has a drink driving conviction . They should be grateful if a teacher is willing to drive them around . The very idea that a teacher would drive students under the influence ! Ridiculous !

OH DEAR GOD. Are you actually serious???

You missed the irony of your post also. So for years people knew things and did nothing about it but now we are doing something about it but you are not happy with that either. Get a grip

Also obviously like anything its not that the school would be going around telling the parents the teachers business but say it was an overnight competition, when the kids are gone to bed teacher has a drink, gets pulled in the morning slightly over. Turns out they had a record of this and did it agian with the kids in the car. Some PR job done there for teachers. Lovely law suit coming for the DoE or VEC.

2011abc wrote: »

Yes because the media have been such good supporters of teachers ! The TC are nothing but a thorn in the sides of teachers . When are we going to mimicking the UK ( in a useful way for once !) and scrap it ? They ROBBED me and countless other teachers saying unregistered teachers wouldn't be paid for the last 4-6 years when it was a blatant lie !In their early days they charged poor unfortunate young graduates big three figure if not four figure sums to 'vet ' their degrees for suitability . The grads had to submit detailed course content details , the TC robbed them too ! The Garda vetting process is one of the steps in TC registration . Despised by any sensible thinking person . Like the ten 2 hour lectures NQTs have to attend ... When I 'registered' as a teacher I paid a once off fee of 15-25 quid and that was it . Why should my younger peers be treated otherwise ? The successive and repeated degradation of NQTs terms have reduced teaching to unglorified child minding .(And us older teachers are being dragged down too in this race to the bottom )

You are just clutching at straws here. The ten 2 hour lectures, the vetting of degrees, the registration fee, etc. are nothing to do with this thread or nothing to do with the GV process. As I said this is a government policy (and rightly so). Obviously because its an Irish government we have done things arse ways and don't have the staff to vet in time and yes it will lead to issues in relation to volunteers being delayed but if that protects kids what harm. This is not a thing of the past, in my local paper 2 or 3 weeks ago 2 people were convicted of child abuse which took place within the last 3 - 4 years.

Peter Flynt

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If he doesn't register he won't get paid from September.

From 01 November.

Mardy Bum

Peter Flynt wrote: »

From 01 November.

VECs have already been bringing it in but yes it goes nationwide from November.

Carlowgirl

Teaching council says it deals with convictions on a case by case basis and decides on each case. I heard of a girl on her dip that was literally marched out of her school when the garda vetting form came back... but not what it was for. Was just wondering if anyone has actually registered with a drink driving conviction

StillWaters

I think your friend studying social care will struggle with a drunk and disordedly offence. In that field, dealing with such vulnerable clients, and with so many graduates for each position it will be extremely difficult to find employment.
Hard to put an old head on young shoulders, but these convictions in youth cast a long shadow.

Powerhouse

seavill wrote: »

Take drink driving - should a particular teacher have a conviction for drink driving yet they may be asked to drive a group of students to an event - we all know it happens. Some of their parents may not be too happy. I am not saying they should be sacked or anything of the sort my point is there is more to it than meets the eye.


Thirdly - parking ticket is not a criminal conviction so again a Ridiculous analogy being made here. A parking ticket has nothing to do with garda vetting.
And clearly everyone knows it does not = Paedophile as you put it.

On the drink-driving point- how would the parents know about a drink-driving conviction in the past? There may be the case of local knowledge in rural areas but generally this information should be between employer and employed. All things being right such information should not be in the public domain as far as I am aware. (I'm not really sure why parents would be concerned assuming the teacher was sober at the time they were driving the kids but I suppose people can get very ansty when they sense a moral advantage. But there is no little irony in the fact that these parents can have complete access to children themselves with no vetting while teachers have to jump through hoops to have comparatively limited access to the kids to do their job.)

On the parking ticket, I think you've missed the broader point being got at. I know someone who did their PDE a couple of years ago and had a minor conviction for breaking a traffic light but still got a phone call from the Ed Dept in their college summoning them to meet the head of the course to discuss. During this get-together the head of the course dismissed the matter for the insignificance that it was but did so only in front of three or four others from the college none of whom had any clear need to have access to such information.

Yet, my acquaintance was worried sick for a couple of days thinking she might be kicked off the course after receiving a vague phone call from the office. This suggests to me that the whole business could be handled more efficiently and sensitively by all parties involved. There is a sense among some people that they are treated at a prima facie level as no different from hardened criminals when it comes to such matters. I think the exaggeration employed by the other poster merely reflected that feeling. There is a genuine frustration among many who have to go through this painfully elongated, opaque and privacy-compromising process and they are entitled to express that.

pottygoleor

firstly it is a matter of adult protection and choice whether you drive students ,one which you need to be specially insured for ,thus no one with a drink driving conviction would or could afford that high premium ,secondly they would need to accompanied by another adult for legal reasons who could drive instead .The teaching council have vetted people and disclosed info that is not legally obliged to be declared ,several members comment on lack of car tax etc and convictions as juniors appearing .this is then dealt with via an appeal system with a liaison person in a public council style kangaroo court ,those in charge of council vetting could not provide the liasins person ,s name in one post ,which is rather intriguing,pay a council to cause problems it seems to be and then when one wants to legally appeal as is your right to protect ones hard earned and expensive qualification one is met with such comments as seen below .armed with research I think you may feel differently about this.Smacks of council politics frankly,it is not difficult to be elected to the council perhaps I have missed my calling !

Firstly Garda vetting now applies across a huge range of sectors not just teaching. The same rules apply to each even now with the soon to be compulsory introduction to sports clubs the same rules will apply. So why is it the teaching council's fault???
I know people have problems with them but they can't be blamed for all lifes problems. There is no black and white answers in any of this that is why there is no guidance offered as to specific things that are in or out.
Take drink driving - should a particular teacher have a conviction for drink driving yet they may be asked to drive a group of students to an event - we all know it happens. Some of their parents may not be too happy. I am not saying they should be sacked or anything of the sort my point is there is more to it than meets the eye.

Secondly I can absolutely guarantee that 3/4 of your staff would not be struck off as you put it. This is a mad exaggeration being made.

Thirdly - parking ticket is not a criminal conviction so again a Ridiculous analogy being made here. A parking ticket has nothing to do with garda vetting.
And clearly everyone knows it does not = Paedophile as you put it.

And finally calling the TC a cancer in our profession when these rules are completely outside of their control. The Garda do the vetting based on government legislation. The TC do not make this stuff up. As I said they may be a nightmare to deal with at times but take a step back and re read what you have actually posted.[/quote]

pottygoleor

I notice in the code of conduct from T.C that being under the influence of drugs or drink while teaching is an offence so it may come under child protection if you drink drive but you can't do that anyway if you are convicted of it.ireland it seems is one of the only EU countries to record spent convictions in live Garda checks .slanderous in ways

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Just wondering after a conversation with two friends regarding garda vetting... one guy has applied to return to college to do social care and got caught drunk on the street after his leaving cert years ago.ie. has a drunk and disorderly recod. another has a drink driving conviction from 8 years ago and is afraid he wont be allowed to register with teaching council when he applies so has put it off...
Has anyone ever gotten registered with teaching council with such offence and do they make a big deal out of it.. sounds like there crazy friends.. but they were both just silly and young at the time...

pottygoleor

Yes agree council leaves it at discretion ofteacher which principals to share vetting with but as it is law to have an up to date check then you air any dirty laundry you may have with a board of management if your principal is uncomfortable with anything disclosed by vetting.you then trust strangers to remain confidential .interesting yes that no parents are vetted

Powerhouse wrote: »

On the drink-driving point- how would the parents know about a drink-driving conviction in the past? There may be the case of local knowledge in rural areas but generally this information should be between employer and employed. All things being right such information should not be in the public domain as far as I am aware. (I'm not really sure why parents would be concerned assuming the teacher was sober at the time they were driving the kids but I suppose people can get very ansty when they sense a moral advantage. But there is no little irony in the fact that these parents can have complete access to children themselves with no vetting while teachers have to jump through hoops to have comparatively limited access to the kids to do their job.)

On the parking ticket, I think you've missed the broader point being got at. I know someone who did their PDE a couple of years ago and had a minor conviction for breaking a traffic light but still got a phone call from the Ed Dept in their college summoning them to meet the head of the course to discuss. During this get-together the head of the course dismissed the matter for the insignificance that it was but did so only in front of three or four others from the college none of whom had any clear need to have access to such information.

Yet, my acquaintance was worried sick for a couple of days thinking she might be kicked off the course after receiving a vague phone call from the office. This suggests to me that the whole business could be handled more efficiently and sensitively by all parties involved. There is a sense among some people that they are treated at a prima facie level as no different from hardened criminals when it comes to such matters. I think the exaggeration employed by the other poster merely reflected that feeling. There is a genuine frustration among many who have to go through this painfully elongated, opaque and privacy-compromising process and they are entitled to express that.

pottygoleor

Spent convictions are not relevant if they were a minor

StillWaters wrote: »

I think your friend studying social care will struggle with a drunk and disordedly offence. In that field, dealing with such vulnerable clients, and with so many graduates for each position it will be extremely difficult to find employment.
Hard to put an old head on young shoulders, but these convictions in youth cast a long shadow.

evolving_doors

Ok thanks,
Please don't re-animate old zombie threads..
Thread closed
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