BMW Engines and Badges

Moanin

This is one that I always wondered what the correct answer was?

Doe the badge on the rear on a BMW reflect the size of the engine e.g. Does a 316D have a 1.6 diesel engine , or does a 520D have a 2 litre engine???

Thanks

Donnelly117

Roughly but not exactly. For example a 335i has a 3 litre engine afaik. A 520d is a two litre though. I think a lot of the petrol 318 and 320's were all 1.9 litre engines. So the numbers represent what engine it is but its not always exact

RamblingRuairi

More often than not, yes but I had a 316 Compact a few years back that was actually a 1.8 engine.

Sobanek

Up until the E36 they pretty much did.

E60 520i is a 2.2 litre
E60 535d is a 3.0 litre
E60 550i is a 4.8 litre

F20 114i is a 1.6 litre...

bmstuff

Less and less true indeed...now you have the x40d which are 3 twin turbos and also x50i which are 4.4 etc
The turbos messed it all up

bmstuff

But best of all, is the 520 with a M5 badge which means you run a 5l engine...in your little head.

dantastic

bmstuff wrote: »

But best of all, is the 520 with a M5 badge which means you run a 5l engine...in your little head.

Those phony M badges are the same as walking around wearing a tiara thinking you're a princess.

Voodoomelon

Was the same with Mercedes, most were correct until the late 90s. Very few actually represent the engine size now, but still denote the cars position in the model range.

Gobethewall

I have a 116D and it has a 2 litre engine. The 116 refers to HP as far as I know. the 116, 118 and 120D all have the same engine and the nos. refer to HP

colm_mcm

Gobethewall wrote: »

I have a 116D and it has a 2 litre engine. The 116 refers to HP as far as I know. the 116, 118 and 120D all have the same engine and the nos. refer to HP

Yeah it tells you how far up the pecking order it is but the numbers themselves don't give you any idea of hp

copacetic

It's meaningless now, although originally it meant something.

Eg in the E90/92 3 series petrols, the 325, 328, 330 and 335 all ended up with 3 litre engine with various tunes and added turbos. Whereas in the new f30 3 series the 325 and 328 are 2.0l engines.

So within the last 8 years a 325i went from a 2.5l engine, to a 3.0l engine and then down to a 2.0l engine.

ofcork

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Was the same with Mercedes, most were correct until the late 90s. Very few actually represent the engine size now, but still denote the cars position in the model range.

I think like bmw when they started using forced induction the badging went haywire,iirc the W203 c class had 3 versions with the same engine just different bhp hence different badges.

tossy

I'm convinced the 535D badge is the biggest selling badge of all time,it's left the GT TDI and RS4 behind, the amount of fake 535D's around is crazy.

ofcork

Havent seen any fake 535s in cork but there are a couple of fake M5s doing the rounds.

unkel

copacetic wrote: »

So within the last 8 years a 325i went from a 2.5l engine, to a 3.0l engine and then down to a 2.0l engine.

And it went from being a straight 6 N/A engine to a turbo 4 cylinder engine. That's far worse than the badge messing

copacetic

unkel wrote: »

And it went from being a straight 6 N/A engine to a turbo 4 cylinder engine. That's far worse than the badge messing

I see the one I imported on the N11 the odd morning, I miss the noise, especially when joining a motorway from a slow starting slip road!

bazz26

Here they are as I know it:

Diesel:
x14d - 1.6 litre
x16d - 2.0 litre
x18d - 2.0 litre
x20d - 2.0 litre
x23d - 2.0 litre (twin turbo)
x25d - 2.5 or 3.0 litre (depending on the year)
x30d - 3.0 litre
x35d - 3.0 litre (twin turbo)
x40d - 3.0 litre (V8)

Petrol:
x16i - 1.6, 1.8 or 1.9 litre (depending on the year)
x18i - 1.8, 1.9 or 2.0 litre (depending on the year)
x20i - 2.0 or 2.2 litre (depending on the year)
x23i - 2.5 litre
x25i - 2.5 or 3.0 litre (depending on the year)
x28i - 2.0, 2.8 or 3.0 litre (depending on the year)
x30i - 3.0 litre
x35i - 3.0 litre (twin turbo)

There are a number of V8, V10 and V12 engines also but they are probably not what you are asking about.

Crackity Jones

copacetic wrote: »

I see the one I imported on the N11 the odd morning, I miss the noise, especially when joining a motorway from a slow starting slip road!

I've had my 05 325i the longest I've had any car. Rock solid and still love driving it.

lomb

bmstuff wrote: »

But best of all, is the 520 with a M5 badge which means you run a 5l engine...in your little head.

The M5 never stood for 5 l but rather Motorsport 5 series. But point noted. Whats the point in a fake 535d or M5? Under 10 year old ones of either can be had for under 10k which anyone can afford. Why have a copy when you can have the genuine article?

Sulla Felix

dantastic wrote: »

Those phony M badges are the same as walking around wearing a tiara thinking you're a princess.

What I can't get my head around is that the people who aren't petrolheads aren't going to know what an M badge is anyway, even if they see a real one, and the people who would be impressed by the M, would generally be able to pick out the fakes so... who exactly is being impressed?

bazz26

Sulla Felix wrote: »

What I can't get my head around is that the people who aren't petrolheads aren't going to know what an M badge is anyway, even if they see a real one, and the people who would be impressed by the M, would generally be able to pick out the fakes so... who exactly is being impressed?

The same type of people who are impressed when they see a RS4 diesel A4, if you get my drift.

Matt Simis

Sobanek wrote: »

Up until the E36 they pretty much did.

Not as much as people like to make out these days, historically they did not directly correlate to the engine inside, but the marketing position.

For example:

850i = 5litre or 5.4l V12
850CSi = 5.6litre V12
740i = 4.0 V8 or 4.4litre V8
750i - 5.0 V12 (e32) or 5.4litre V12 (e38) or 4.8litre V8 (e65) or 4.4l Turbo (F01)
745i (E23 early 80's) = 3.2litre or 3.4l I6 Turbo
535i (e34) = some had 3.4 and some have 3.5litre engines
325e (e30) = 2.7litre
M550D (F10) = 3.0D Tri Turbo
535d/335d etc = 3.0D Bi Turbo

When people go on about how new BMWs ruin a long standing naming convention... well they clearly are too new school to have sense. :P

Voodoomelon

In fairness they're the odd balls, the millions of 3s and 5s on the road mostly made sense.

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In fairness they're the odd balls, the millions of 3s and 5s on the road mostly made sense.

Aye.

Matt Simis wrote: »

M550D (F10) = 3.0D Tri Turbo

That one is taking the absolute p1ss though. It should be "verboten" to use that "M" letter on a diesel car anyway

Matt Simis

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In fairness they're the odd balls, the millions of 3s and 5s on the road mostly made sense.

Combined that lot is also millions of "oddballs".. which by volumes makes them far from fringe case "oddballs"! Also the very vanilla and common 2.2litre 520i, the 3.0litre 525i and the 2.5litre 523i are not mentioned, nor 645, 650, 540, 550i etc there are simply tons of BMWs not labelled per engine size and it has nothing to do with (recent) Turbo's or engines or green things. And looking at the line-up as a whole (and not per unit shipments), a very sizeable portion of the line up are not labelled per engine size.

They were doing this from 1979, their message was fairly clear and consistent, the model name is indicative of engine power commonly associated with a given engine size. Hence a 2.5litre might perform like a 2.3litre while a certain 2.0litre (123d) might perform like a 2.3d.

It just happens most BMWs in Ireland were (and are) a limited range of weener models which by pure coincidence were mostly (not always) named like the engine CC. The statement that "model number should/generally does = engine size" is just flat out wrong as is the notion that historically model name = engine size (even more incorrect IMO).

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

They were doing this from 1979, their message was fairly clear

Aye, the 745i. I didn't understand it / agreed with it back then, still don't now

To me BMW is a very straight forward make, no nonsense. What you see is what you get. Interiors haven't changed all that much over the last few decades, neither have their best engines. All of them are great drivers cars

I feel BMW should have stuck with the original model naming convention. That car in '79 should have been called a 732ti. Plain and simple. BMW.

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Aye, the 745i. I didn't understand it / agreed with it back then, still don't now

Agree or not, its easy to understand. :P

Matt Simis wrote: »

the model name is indicative of engine power commonly associated with a given engine size.

I didnt make that up, thats their actual guideline for like 40years now.

unkel wrote: »

I feel BMW should have stuck with the original model naming convention. That car in '79 should have been called a 732ti. Plain and simple. BMW.

Whats "original" when talking about nearly a Century of different models, corporate image and Company Managment? What they did in the 1920s? 50s? 70s? All different naming, the only semi-consistent and similar conversion today was in the 70s and even then there were multiple (common and not "oddball" VoodooM!) exceptions.
They just never did the consistent and clean naming system you guys are making out and certainly didnt do it around the e30-e39 eras, which to many is what they consider the founding of the current BMW identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BMW_vehicles



Given the complexities and variations in engine design contrasted against limited consumer intelligence/knowledge regarding performance, their approach is bang on the money, its perfect. Could you explain in better terms why the 525e and 325e were the "fuel economy" models when they came with larger 2.7litre but lower power engines?
Its too complex to try to cram into 3 characters in a direct to boot lid translation.

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Its too complex to try to cram into 3 characters in a direct to boot lid translation.

Maybe I'm a bit simple, but the 3 number system (plus additional characters when necessary) is working fine for me

Like I said, nothing wrong with a 732ti or a 527ei or a 525xi

t for turbo, e for economy, x for 4-wheel drive, etc. more than one character can be applicable for one car, why not?

3 numbers for the series and the engine size. Rule set in stone. I'd feel a manufacturer was a lot more honest / trustworthy with a system like that. That said, you know your marketing and BMW is one of the most profitable car makers in the world, so I guess I'm wrong here

bazz26

And we are about to be graced by the introduction of the 114d/314d and 518d.

testarossa40

Not entirely on topic, but:
BBC2, Sunday 9pm (after Top Sneer)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03866cj

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Maybe I'm a bit simple, but the 3 number system (plus additional characters when necessary) is working fine for me

Like I said, nothing wrong with a 732ti or a 527ei or a 525xi

t for turbo, e for economy, x for 4-wheel drive, etc. more than one character can be applicable for one car, why not?

3 numbers for the series and the engine size. Rule set in stone. I'd feel a manufacturer was a lot more honest / trustworthy with a system like that. That said, you know your marketing and BMW is one of the most profitable car makers in the world, so I guess I'm wrong here

Well personally I agree with you, I would much prefer it clean, plain and simple. But I know from talking to the "common man" they wouldnt have a hope of understanding (your bugbear example!) the glorious M550d should be a "M530d", as would the 535d as would the 530d as would a potential detuned 3.0 block economy version (which the morketing people would call a 525d).

Celly Smunt

I saw and M5 type R bora other day.Id say it was a rocket.

Sobanek

Matt Simis wrote: »

Not as much as people like to make out these days, historically they did not directly correlate to the engine inside, but the marketing position.

For example:

850i = 5litre or 5.4l V12
850CSi = 5.6litre V12
740i = 4.0 V8 or 4.4litre V8
750i - 5.0 V12 (e32) or 5.4litre V12 (e38) or 4.8litre V8 (e65) or 4.4l Turbo (F01)
745i (E23 early 80's) = 3.2litre or 3.4l I6 Turbo
535i (e34) = some had 3.4 and some have 3.5litre engines
325e (e30) = 2.7litre
M550D (F10) = 3.0D Tri Turbo
535d/335d etc = 3.0D Bi Turbo

When people go on about how new BMWs ruin a long standing naming convention... well they clearly are too new school to have sense. :P

Note, the "pretty much", Matt

Matt Simis

Sobanek wrote: »

Note, the "pretty much", Matt

One of the featured cars in this months BMW Car magazine (IRC) is a one owner mint 1990 535i. Scroll to the specs column.. engine size: 3.4litre.

You lot are dreaming up a system that never existed!

ofcork

I suppose 3430cc is alot closer to 35 than 3000cc is.

Max Power1

bazz26 wrote: »

And we are about to be graced by the introduction of the 114d/314d and 518d.

Those will be horrendously underpowered off boost.

I thought the days of 518s were well past us!