Performance Enhancing Drugs and the GAA?

Rawhead

Do people think that PED's are being used in the GAA? With the competitiveness and physicality being ramped up constantly is it only a matter of time or are they already in use. A high profile player was involved in a case involving ventolin inhalers a few years back (these contain steroids). Given that it is widely accepted in the anti doping community that every sport has some level of illegal drug use, is it naive to think we are different. Does the uniqueness of the GAA, an amateur sport, make it even more prone to doping in that the players are expected to be as fit and strong as professionals and yet do a day job as well.

I don't think it's a problem at present, but if the standards of fitness and physicality continue to rise at the current level then some players will surely become more tempted to take the risk in order to keep up.

bruschi

Rawhead wrote: »

Do people think that PED's are being used in the GAA? With the competitiveness and physicality being ramped up constantly is it only a matter of time or are they already in use. A high profile player was involved in a case involving ventolin inhalers a few years back (these contain steroids). Given that it is widely accepted in the anti doping community that every sport has some level of illegal drug use, is it naive to think we are different. Does the uniqueness of the GAA, an amateur sport, make it even more prone to doping in that the players are expected to be as fit and strong as professionals and yet do a day job as well.

I don't think it's a problem at present, but if the standards of fitness and physicality continue to rise at the current level then some players will surely become more tempted to take the risk in order to keep up.

whilst your thread and point may be worth debating, the fact you use a case where a player with asthma tested positive for using an asthma inhaler to try point out it contains steroids is clutching at straws and has no need to be in your point. reference to other sports, like the current problem in AFL would have been better examples than a player using a product that is cleared for players who declare it for legal medicinal reasons.

I also dont think its an issue right now.

BertMark

Rawhead wrote: »

Do people think that PED's are being used in the GAA? With the competitiveness and physicality being ramped up constantly is it only a matter of time or are they already in use. A high profile player was involved in a case involving ventolin inhalers a few years back (these contain steroids). Given that it is widely accepted in the anti doping community that every sport has some level of illegal drug use, is it naive to think we are different. Does the uniqueness of the GAA, an amateur sport, make it even more prone to doping in that the players are expected to be as fit and strong as professionals and yet do a day job as well.

I don't think it's a problem at present, but if the standards of fitness and physicality continue to rise at the current level then some players will surely become more tempted to take the risk in order to keep up.

I think some in the GAA community have been quite naive in some respects regarding this. Not all now, but I know plenty who dismiss it outright based on the image of the GAA as amateur and, therefore, pure. That's willful ignorance in my eyes.

If there is an advantage to be gained then somebody, somewhere will take it. That is true in every area of life bar none.

I think it was Michael Murphy recently said he's never once been tested in his career. With lax policing like that the potential for abuse is massive and with the ever increasing need for physical power and stamina - not to mention the need to make those gains around your day to day job and family commitments - the temptation to cheat has never been higher.

BertMark

bruschi wrote: »

whilst your thread and point may be worth debating, the fact you use a case where a player with asthma tested positive for using an asthma inhaler to try point out it contains steroids is clutching at straws and has no need to be in your point. reference to other sports, like the current problem in AFL would have been better examples than a player using a product that is cleared for players who declare it for legal medicinal reasons.

I also dont think its an issue right now.

Why? I'm not having at go at you now, but I don't really get this attitude.

There are few tests done, players are getting bigger and faster at a rapid rate and the pressures to reach physical goals have never been greater.

If ever there was a time that it seemed possible that GAA players were cutting corners to make massive physical gains then we're in it now.

I don't see how GAA as a sport could be side stepped by athletes who want to take ped's. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't go on tbh.

Rawhead

Testing would seem to be an issue, if you don't do a lot of tests you won't detect a lot. Tennis does basically no tests, the French government singled it out in this regards, they are also focusing on rugby in a big way.
The way division 1 in the football has gone up is really startling, the levels of fitness, power and strength are nuts. Everything that that has been achieved so far is achievable by legal means, but what happens in 2-3-4 years when they begin to plateau? That's when the temptation will really kick in.

Dirty Dingus McGee

How much do banned performance enhancing drugs cost?

Rawhead

bruschi wrote: »

whilst your thread and point may be worth debating, the fact you use a case where a player with asthma tested positive for using an asthma inhaler to try point out it contains steroids is clutching at straws and has no need to be in your point. reference to other sports, like the current problem in AFL would have been better examples than a player using a product that is cleared for players who declare it for legal medicinal reasons.

I also dont think its an issue right now.

I used the inhaler as an example because most people would not even realise that something as common and benign looking can be a PED if not medically exempted.

platypus

I would think the vast majority of GAA players are clean. However to think that no one in the sport would use PED seems naive to me

Joe10000

I'm no expert but i think PEDs are used to increase muscle mass and/or reduce recovery times after events. The former would stick out a mile and the second is not really relevant.

Blood doping before a big game maybe attractive but this country is far too small to get away with it.

platypus

Rawhead wrote: »

I used the inhaler as an example because most people would not even realise that something as common and benign looking can be a PED if not medically exempted.

Not sure what exactly the rules in the GAA are, but to expect amateur players to adhere to the same level of ensuring they don't take something by accident seems slightly unfair to me. The case you mentioned being a good example

Yellow121

Where would they get the PEDs? Remember that runner, I'm almost certain of his name but don't want to say it in case I'm wrong. He ordered EPO over the internet and customs alerted the relevant authorities.
Maybe I'm being naive but most Gaa players wouldn't have clue where to get EPO. Also don't you need the assistance of a doctor, who'd take that risk in Ireland? It would be bound to get out.

downthemiddle

platypus wrote: »

Not sure what exactly the rules in the GAA are, but to expect amateur players to adhere to the same level of ensuring they don't take something by accident seems slightly unfair to me. The case you mentioned being a good example

GAA players are bound by Irish Sports Council regulations , just like other sports and are subject to testing both in and out of competition.

downthemiddle

Yellow121 wrote: »

Where would they get the PEDs? Remember that runner, I'm almost certain of his name but don't want to say it in case I'm wrong. He ordered EPO over the internet and customs alerted the relevant authorities.
Maybe I'm being naive but most Gaa players wouldn't have clue where to get EPO. Also don't you need the assistance of a doctor, who'd take that risk in Ireland? It would be bound to get out.

The athlete was Cathal Lombard.

Rawhead

Joe10000 wrote: »

I'm no expert but i think PEDs are used to increase muscle mass and/or reduce recovery times after events. The former would stick out a mile and the second is not really relevant.

Blood doping before a big game maybe attractive but this country is far too small to get away with it.

If doping is a benefit in rugby, aussie rules and other similar sports then why not in GAA? Most people are under the impression that PED's make you stronger or faster by themselves, they don't. It's the fact that they speed up your recovery that is the benefit.
They allow you to train harder, more often, because your body recovers quicker, that is the performance enhancement.
That is the reason that they work in any sport.

BertMark

Joe10000 wrote: »

I'm no expert but i think PEDs are used to increase muscle mass and/or reduce recovery times after events. The former would stick out a mile and the second is not really relevant.

Blood doping before a big game maybe attractive but this country is far too small to get away with it.

Jamaica is far smaller and they were getting away with it for long enough.

Yellow121

downthemiddle wrote: »

The athlete was Cathal Lombard.

Yes, that's who I thought but just say you or I wanted to take PEDs tomorrow, where would we go? Maybe I'm clueless but I wouldn't have a clue where to go to get the good stuff. (good stuff as in what Lance Armstrong was on)

yop

Mod Edit

yop

Yellow121 wrote: »

Yes, that's who I thought but just say you or I wanted to take PEDs tomorrow, where would we go? Maybe I'm clueless but I wouldn't have a clue where to go to get the good stuff. (good stuff as in what Lance Armstrong was on)

Doctors in all squads now, you'd be surprised

Yellow121

Recovery means muscle recovery. When your muscles recover faster, you can train them harder and for longer, when you train muscles harder they get bigger and stronger faster.
Recovery is vital.

Yellow121

yop wrote: »

Doctors in all squads now, you'd be surprised

What happened to the magic sponge? :eek: What was the magic part?????

macadam

All county players are scrutnised for drugs on a regular basis, the testers turn up at training and have the names of players they want to test, its all done with urine samples.

BertMark

yop wrote: »

Doctors in all squads now, you'd be surprised

This is it. Not all doctors are squeaky clean. Plus a lot of the stuff that qualifies as a PED is not illegal outside of sport and easy enough to source.

Rawhead

Saying that lads wouldn't know where to find it or that Ireland is too small for that kind of thing is a bit naive to be honest. I said in my first post that I don't think it's a big problem at present but if the proper protections for the players aren't put in place at this stage then it will be a problem in the future.

The Gooch gave an interview recently where he said that he wouldn't have made it onto the current Kerry panel if he was the size and weight he was back in the 90's when he first burst on the scene. With that admission from one of the best players of the game ever, surely it would be very tempting for a young 18 year old starting out today with lots of talent who's a bit light to source something to help him put on some lean muscle and build power.

yop

Yellow121 wrote: »

Recovery means muscle recovery. When your muscles recover faster, you can train them harder and for longer, when you train muscles harder they get bigger and stronger faster.
Recovery is vital.

And there are many non drug ways to ensure that the muscles recover and grow. Its a science in itself and athletes are educating themselves on it now and have it down to a "T".

downonthefarm

looking at some of the fights i would say there is deffo some roiid rage to blame

Rawhead

yop wrote: »

I'm sure its prevalent, if you look back even 5 years ago when this started, the Armagh team seemed to balloon to more muscle men than GAA players, maybe its the tighter jerseys and weights programs but I would be surprised if boosters or enhancers weren't part of the program.
Recovery I am not so sure about, I don't think the pressure is as much on the GAA players as would be on other sports, but who knows either.

Recovery is what it's all about. If you can recover quickly then you can train harder, more often. If you can train harder, more often you get stronger, bigger, quicker.
PED's aren't like Popeye and spinach as most people think.

downthemiddle

macadam wrote: »

All county players are scrutnised for drugs on a regular basis, the testers turn up at training and have the names of players they want to test, its all done with urine samples.

Blood sampling is done too. They are now building up biological passports on sports performers.

BertMark

macadam wrote: »

All county players are scrutnised for drugs on a regular basis, the testers turn up at training and have the names of players they want to test, its all done with urine samples.

Michael Murphy admits he hasn't been tested in 7 years.

"The GAA are talking about a couple of thousand players across the board...Last year we did 87 tests so they are not all going to be tested and it is a random system. In any one year the same guy could get tested twice. One guy could never be tested. That's just the random nature of it."
Dr. Una May, Director of the Anti-Doping Unit, Irish Sports Council, on GAA testing. 23/7/2013

http://hoganstand.com/Donegal/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=197251

Fermanagh captain Ryan McCluskey on steroid use in the GAA

“I have known and I kind of know to a certain extent that it has crept into the sport in certain areas."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/gaa-must-not-allow-complacency-to-derail-anti-doping-push-237351.html

yop

BertMark wrote: »

Michael Murphy admits he hasn't been tested in 7 years.

"The GAA are talking about a couple of thousand players across the board...Last year we did 87 tests so they are not all going to be tested and it is a random system. In any one year the same guy could get tested twice. One guy could never be tested. That's just the random nature of it."
Dr. Una May, Director of the Anti-Doping Unit, Irish Sports Council, on GAA testing. 23/7/2013

http://hoganstand.com/Donegal/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=197251

Fermanagh captain Ryan McCluskey on steroid use in the GAA

“I have known and I kind of know to a certain extent that it has crept into the sport in certain areas."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/gaa-must-not-allow-complacency-to-derail-anti-doping-push-237351.html

Quelle surprise.

Rawhead

downthemiddle wrote: »

Blood sampling is done too. They are now building up biological passports on sports performers.

You any relation to Pat McQuaid by any chance? The mere mention of PED use in the GAA and you go banana's. If 87 tests where carried out across all levels and age groups in the GAA then you would have the same chance of being tested as you would of winning the lotto nearly.

If you don't test then you won't find anything.....

Henlars67

Not a GAA fan but I would think that doping in GAA is minimal. The main incentive to cheat is for financial gain, of which there is none to be gotten from GAA.

The financial gains of being successful in cycling were big, so morally corrupt riders cheated, then others who were no longer able to earn decent money doped in order to keep up with the successful riders and it continued all the way down until the vast majority of the peleton in any particular race were on something, leaving those who refused to take it to give up their dreams and pursue a different career.


I have no doubt that most professional sports are the same. There is the argument that the likes of football (soccer as you guys probably call it) and tennis would be less likely to have dopers as they are primarily games of skill, however both are poorly tested, particularly tennis which has no testing and speed and endurance are big parts of both games, so I'd be surprised if both are not rife with doping, maybe not in all countries with soccer, but definitely in some. Anyone ever notice how Italian footballers seem to have much longer careers that most others? and there are lots of rumours about footballers doping in Spain.

I've long been convinced that rugby, with little or no testing is full of PED's. Athletic's is a joke at the moment. The world championships are coming up in Russia shortly and there are currently over 40 Russian athletes suspended for drug use. 9 of the 10 fastest men in the world of all time have tested positive at one time or another.

Cycling is the only sport that is trying to catch the cheats and with the amount of testing they have I'd wager that it is now one of the cleanest professional sports. The other sports don't want the hassle or cost of testing and most of all don't want the scandal that would undoubtedly follow a year or two of testing on the same scale as cycling.

What all those sports have in common is large financial reward. Athletes balance this against the risk and shame of being caught and decide that it is worth their while to chance it.

Another factor is that some countries don't view doping in the same way we do. In other countries people who have served doping bans return to competition after a ban and go on to become national heroes. Here you would be disgraced for life.

I can't see many GAA players taking that risk for absolutely no reward.

If the GAA had really stepped up on testing for a while then I've no doubt that they'd catch a few players who have no morals and a decent job which allowed them afford good PED's, but it really would be a minimal amount.

Yellow121

I think you're right in most of what you say Henlars but cyclists in this years Tour De France went up mountains faster than they have before. That sport still aint clean.

yop

Henlars67 wrote: »

Not a GAA fan but I would think that doping in GAA is minimal. The main incentive to cheat is for financial gain, of which there is none to be gotten from GAA.

The financial gains of being successful in cycling were big, so morally corrupt riders cheated, then others who were no longer able to earn decent money doped in order to keep up with the successful riders and it continued all the way down until the vast majority of the peleton in any particular race were on something, leaving those who refused to take it to give up their dreams and pursue a different career.


I have no doubt that most professional sports are the same. There is the argument that the likes of football (soccer as you guys probably call it) and tennis would be less likely to have dopers as they are primarily games of skill, however both are poorly tested, particularly tennis which has no testing and speed and endurance are big parts of both games, so I'd be surprised if both are not rife with doping, maybe not in all countries with soccer, but definitely in some. Anyone ever notice how Italian footballers seem to have much longer careers that most others? and there are lots of rumours about footballers doping in Spain.

I've long been convinced that rugby, with little or no testing is full of PED's. Athletic's is a joke at the moment. The world championships are coming up in Russia shortly and there are currently over 40 Russian athletes suspended for drug use. 9 of the 10 fastest men in the world of all time have tested positive at one time or another.

Cycling is the only sport that is trying to catch the cheats and with the amount of testing they have I'd wager that it is now one of the cleanest professional sports. The other sports don't want the hassle or cost of testing and most of all don't want the scandal that would undoubtedly follow a year or two of testing on the same scale as cycling.

What all those sports have in common is large financial reward. Athletes balance this against the risk and shame of being caught and decide that it is worth their while to chance it.

Another factor is that some countries don't view doping in the same way we do. In other countries people who have served doping bans return to competition after a ban and go on to become national heroes. Here you would be disgraced for life.

I can't see many GAA players taking that risk for absolutely no reward.

If the GAA had really stepped up on testing for a while then I've no doubt that they'd catch a few players who have no morals and a decent job which allowed them afford good PED's, but it really would be a minimal amount.

Good post, though when you have some of the top GAA players insinuating that it does exist and a player who has been to an AI final not been tested in 7 years it makes you wonder.
Some people are blinkered to it, but even though its an amaeutur sport, there is still sponsorship and "unofficial" rewards for those county players who are successful.
Mayo players got sponsored cars, never put their hands in their pockets for a drink or even a dinner. Got free gear, headphones etc etc.
It all adds up.

Henlars67

Yellow121 wrote: »

I think you're right in most of what you say Henlars but cyclists in this years Tour De France went up mountains faster than they have before. That sport still aint clean.

I never said it was, and it never will be, nor will most other professional sports.
I said it would be one of the cleanest sports.

Dan Martin won a stage this year. Nobody has done more to expose doping in cycling than Paul Kimmage and he says Martin is clean, so that's good enough for me.

And Froome was the only one climbing at those speeds.

Yellow121

Henlars67 wrote: »

I never said it was, and it never will be, nor will most other professional sports.
I said it would be one of the cleanest sports.

Dan Martin won a stage this year. Nobody has done more to expose doping in cycling than Paul Kimmage and he says Martin is clean, so that's good enough for me.

And Froome was the only one climbing at those speeds.

Yeah but he won it. It's like if everyone was clean but Usain Bolt wasn't.
Hopefully they are cleaning up anyway.

Henlars67

Yellow121 wrote: »

Yeah but he won it. It's like if everyone was clean but Usain Bolt wasn't.
Hopefully they are cleaning up anyway.

I doubt Bolt is clean

shockframe

Rawhead wrote: »

The Gooch gave an interview recently where he said that he wouldn't have made it onto the current Kerry panel if he was the size and weight he was back in the 90's when he first burst on the scene. With that admission from one of the best players of the game ever, surely it would be very tempting for a young 18 year old starting out today with lots of talent who's a bit light to source something to help him put on some lean muscle and build power.

Whatever about PEDs this is complete ~~~~. Colm cooper was one of the lightest players in a long time to play for kerry or any other county in 2002 (his first season) and played against a very physically imposing armagh side - one which hasnt been probably seen before or after- and did just fine winning an all star the same year giving Francie Bellew a torrid time in the first half of that final. He hasnt done badly for himself in the 10 years that followed either.

yop

Henlars67 wrote: »

I doubt Bolt is clean

You have to wonder for sure, though you do hope that some of the worlds greatest are clean

Yellow121

Henlars67 wrote: »

I doubt Bolt is clean

I'd say it's unlikely.

downonthefarm

yop wrote: »

You have to wonder for sure, though you do hope that some of the worlds greatest are clean

when i found out lewis was doping,that was a big let down

yop

downonthefarm wrote: »

when i found out lewis was doping,that was a big let down

Same as, even Armstrong was EXTREMELY disappointing. People will always try to throw mud, I didn't think he did.

Well it maybe prevalent also now in the GAA, to a much lesser extent, but its possibly there.

Frankie Lee

I'd suspect the majority of intercounty GAA players are clean but with the lack of any meaningful testing then the avenue of cheating is open to those who can afford it. I'd like to see the GAA take a hard line on anyone caught doping but would also like to see testing based n investigations and information rather than random testing. Blood testing needs to be introduced asap. Players coming back from the AFL, soccer clubs in England and from rugby should be tested immediately too.

The GAA would be able to benefit hugely if it could prove itself to be clean as the likes of Rugby andat the top level of Soccer doping is systemic. Soon enough there will be a backlash like what happened in cycling and baseball.

Yellow121

downonthefarm wrote: »

when i found out lewis was doping,that was a big let down

yop wrote: »

Same as, even Armstrong was EXTREMELY disappointing. People will always try to throw mud, I didn't think he did.

Well it maybe prevalent also now in the GAA, to a much lesser extent, but its possibly there.

What if it turned out one of our supstars were on it? One of our heroes? Now that would be hard to take.

yop

Yellow121 wrote: »

What if it turned out one of our supstars were on it? One of our heroes? Now that would be hard to take.

JEEEBUS NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Bosco on PED!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:eek:

Yellow121

The Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles were my heroes. Now that I think of it, they had very big muscles for turtles.

shockframe

It was definitely spinach popeye took right?

Henlars67

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I'd suspect the majority of intercounty GAA players are clean but with the lack of any meaningful testing then the avenue of cheating is open to those who can afford it. I'd like to see the GAA take a hard line on anyone caught doping but would also like to see testing based n investigations and information rather than random testing. Blood testing needs to be introduced asap. Players coming back from the AFL, soccer clubs in England and from rugby should be tested immediately too.

The GAA would be able to benefit hugely if it could prove itself to be clean as the likes of Rugby andat the top level of Soccer doping is systemic. Soon enough there will be a backlash like what happened in cycling and baseball.

I can't see it, I don't think the likes of rugby will ever test to a large enough extent for that to happen.

They won't want to get the same bad press as cycling.

What happened cycling with so many dopers exposed was good for cycling in the long run as it is getting cleaner and hopefully will continue to.

However, I think it is bad for clean sport in general, as other sporting head-bodies having seen what happened in cycling won't run the risk of doing so much damage to their own sport by implementing testing on the scale that cycling has.

But to get back to the thread topic, as I've said, I really don't think there is any significant doping in GAA.

PED's that will make significant difference to performance are not cheap, so for no financial reward I really don't think many would be taking them.

Yellow121

The Hulk only got big cause he was angry didn't he? :eek:

ProudDUB

yop wrote: »

JEEEBUS NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Bosco on PED!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:eek:

It would explain a lot wouldn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AmKnXdUYCQ

nice_guy80

shockframe wrote: »

It was definitely spinach popeye took right?