Dublin Bus Summer Timetable - wtf?

Fratton Fred

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=3391

Effective 6th August For the summer months.

They are removing the bus I use completely, which means I either catch three buses instead of two, or leave for work two hours earlier.

Bastards.

foggy_lad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=3391

Effective 6th August For the summer months.

They are removing the bus I use completely, which means I either catch three buses instead of two, or leave for work two hours earlier.

Bastards.

Why not start a summer timetable in june or july? How long will it go on for?

Fratton Fred

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why not start a summer timetable in june or july? How long will it go on for?

Until the 9th October, they think! No mention of that on the website though.

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=3391

Effective 6th August For the summer months.

They are removing the bus I use completely, which means I either catch three buses instead of two, or leave for work two hours earlier.

Bastards.

I'm guessing you take the 7d. For info the early departure does not follow the 7d route - it operates from Dalkey to Killiney Shopping Centre, then to Shankill and then back to Wyattville Road along the N11, and then operates via route 7 (except with a deviation to serve Donnybrook Garage) to the city centre.

What's the journey? There may be other options.

I suspect that this will only be for the month of August until the schools go back.

DB have been in negotiations for months with the unions about these schedules (and other cost cutting measures) to no avail and have now decided to force the issue. Hence the threat of a dispute.

In future years these probably will start in late June I would imagine.

Polar101

I always thought it was weird that DB didn't have summer timetables. I used to live in a city where the public transport had a reduced timetable in June, and an even more reduced timetable in July. That wasn't great, but it made sense when you considered the reduced passenger numbers.

lil5

As soon as the holidays start the 7 route already operates a summer schedule with plenty of missing departures ...
Happens every year like clockwork ...

LXFlyer

lil5 wrote: »

As soon as the holidays start the 7 route already operates a summer schedule with plenty of missing departures ...
Happens every year like clockwork ...

Introducing summer timetables should address this in the long run - balancing out the buses operating with the demand and also allows for reduced cover for staff holidays.

Fratton Fred

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm guessing you take the 7d. For info the early departure does not follow the 7d route - it operates from Dalkey to Killiney Shopping Centre, then to Shankill and then back to Wyattville Road along the N11, and then operates via route 7 (except with a deviation to serve Donnybrook Garage) to the city centre.

What's the journey? There may be other options.

I suspect that this will only be for the month of August until the schools go back.

DB have confirmed it is until the 9th October, a mere six weeks after the schools go back. How this is a summer schedule I do not know.

I can understand knocking out a few 46a or 7s, but the 7d only has two buses a day and the first is effectively a Dublin Bus driver's collection service. There has been a reduction in passengers over the past few weeks, bit this is due to the crazy diversion in Glasthule. This concerns me as it could be the end of this service from Dalkey.

I have my alternative routes sorted, but it is either an extra change, or a long wait. The other people who get on at my stop and work in Donnybrook will have to get the 59 into Dun Laoghaire and the 46a from there, a real pain in the arse with the current diversions.

Pretty Polly

Sure May/June/July are technically the summer months!

Stevek101

It would of been implemented earlier but negotiations over cost reductions held it up.

Cookie_Monster

cycle. cheaper, probably faster and a decent route out along the rock road and up through Ballsbridge

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

DB have confirmed it is until the 9th October, a mere six weeks after the schools go back. How this is a summer schedule I do not know.

I can understand knocking out a few 46a or 7s, but the 7d only has two buses a day and the first is effectively a Dublin Bus driver's collection service. There has been a reduction in passengers over the past few weeks, bit this is due to the crazy diversion in Glasthule. This concerns me as it could be the end of this service from Dalkey.

I have my alternative routes sorted, but it is either an extra change, or a long wait. The other people who get on at my stop and work in Donnybrook will have to get the 59 into Dun Laoghaire and the 46a from there, a real pain in the arse with the current diversions.

I doubt it is the 9th of October - that is a Wednesday.

As I say I would suspect it will be a bit earlier than that.

As for your journey, does the 8 not suit? Surely it's not that far to walk from Ballsbridge to Donnybroook.

cdebru

I wouldn't worry about the summer schedule for this year, tuesday you are unlikely to have any buses, then the all night labour court nonsense, revert back to current schedules until any agreement is voted on which would probably take another couple of weeks, by which time the kids will nearly be back in school so too late too implement for this year.

Christmas week would be the next time for reduced schedules then 10 weeks next summer.

schemingbohemia

The 59 goes through Dalkey 2 minutes before the 7D leaves at 0720, you can hop off that in DL and get a 46a of which there are loads, I would say it will add, at most, 10 minutes to your journey. The 7d carries fresh air in the summe with the kids off until it links up with the 46a at Monkstown Farm, I love getting it the rare morning I'm awake that early but I'm not surprised it's being suspended.

Fratton Fred

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The 59 goes through Dalkey 2 minutes before the 7D leaves at 0720, you can hop off that in DL and get a 46a of which there are loads, I would say it will add, at most, 10 minutes to your journey. The 7d carries fresh air in the summe with the kids off until it links up with the 46a at Monkstown Farm, I love getting it the rare morning I'm awake that early but I'm not surprised it's being suspended.

It isn't busy, but when the bus runs its normal route there are about twelve to fifteen people on the route by the time it hits Kill Avenue, when it then picks up more passengers depending on when a 46a has last passed. The joke is when it heads into town and it and two 46As are leap flogging each other. To me, it begs the question why not take out a 46a and keep the 7d.

But, this aside, a schedule running from August to October isn' t a summer timetable, to me, it smacks of a back handed way of cutting a route.

I'm only inconvenienced by this I know as I have other options, but the decision does seem daft.

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It isn't busy, but when the bus runs its normal route there are about twelve to fifteen people on the route by the time it hits Kill Avenue, when it then picks up more passengers depending on when a 46a has last passed. The joke is when it heads into town and it and two 46As are leap flogging each other. To me, it begs the question why not take out a 46a and keep the 7d.

But, this aside, a schedule running from August to October isn' t a summer timetable, to me, it smacks of a back handed way of cutting a route.

I'm only inconvenienced by this I know as I have other options, but the decision does seem daft.

As posted above - this would have happened far earlier in the summer but for the fact that union negotiations (which have been ongoing for a year) have been stalling the whole process.

Greenmachine

Summer timetable on the 123
I have noticed buses not turn up at all on this route.

Fratton Fred

lxflyer wrote: »

As posted above - this would have happened far earlier in the summer but for the fact that union negotiations (which have been ongoing for a year) have been stalling the whole process.

If the negotiations had gone on longer would we be looking at a summer reduction in service when the schools go back? Which is three weeks after this timetable takes effect.

Stevek101

There are route changes to be made as well.

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If the negotiations had gone on longer would we be looking at a summer reduction in service when the schools go back? Which is three weeks after this timetable takes effect.

I don't think these will last until October, irrespective of what you may have been told.

The company (from what I can see) are at a point where they now have to force the issue - this is part of an overall cost reduction programme. Four weeks of reduced duties will save money. Bottom line.

dfx-

What's the change to the 16? Is it rush hour morning changes. I can see an extra 0740 departure from the Airport and one less departure from Ballinteer at 0735, but the rest seem to be there, given how many different variations there of the route in the morning between b, d, c, h, s and f subscripts.

That would drive me mad in the morning time figuring that timetable out in a rush.

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

What's the change to the 16? Is it rush hour morning changes. I can see an extra 0740 departure from the Airport and one less departure from Ballinteer at 0735, but the rest seem to be there, given how many different variations there of the route in the morning between b, d, c, h, s and f subscripts.

That would drive me mad in the morning time figuring that timetable out in a rush.

They're the only changes to the 16.

From looking at some of the other timetables, it's generally been a few rush hour services pulled.

dfx-

Where's the cost cut to the company though with one service gone, but one extra service..

LXFlyer

dfx- wrote: »

Where's the cost cut to the company though with one service gone, but one extra service..

Well in that case it's moving the bus to somewhere where it is likely to generate more revenue.

It's not needed on the south side.

TheBandicoot

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

cycle. cheaper, probably faster and a decent route out along the rock road and up through Ballsbridge

Not everyone is fit enough or has enough confidence in their ability/stability/road etiquette to cycle. Also I hate arriving into work sweating, I already get drenched from walking to the train station.Not a fan of getting naked at work for a shower either.

_Kaiser_

Summer schedules eh?
Is DB run by/for teachers now because I doubt most workers relying on the bus will be able to take 3 months off or just come in late while this goes on... assuming you can even get a bus at all next week from reading the news today :rolleyes:

Dublin Bus - Giving you more reasons not to use our service every day!

LXFlyer

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Summer schedules eh?
Is DB run by/for teachers now because I doubt most workers relying on the bus will be able to take 3 months off or just come in late while this goes on... assuming you can even get a bus at all next week from reading the news today :rolleyes:

Dublin Bus - Giving you more reasons not to use our service every day!

I'm not sure what the issue is?

Demand during the summer drops - there is no need for a full schedule during the entire summer period. Journey times also shorten - you can deliver a schedule with fewer buses/drivers.

Summer schedules also allow for staff leave to be adequately covered.

The proposals would seem (from looking at the schedules) to involve around taking 15 buses off the road - hardly the end of the world.

_Kaiser_

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not sure what the issue is?

Demand during the summer drops - there is no need for a full schedule during the entire summer period.

I guess that depends on whether you are a student or a teacher who gets 3 month summer holidays, or an average Mon-Fri worker who gets 2 weeks

Journey times also shorten - you can deliver a schedule with fewer buses/drivers.

I'll get back to this in a minute..

Summer schedules also allow for staff leave to be adequately covered.

That's a new one! I can't imagine my company cutting back services to customers because staff decided they'd rather go on holidays instead - in fact June end is our busiest time!

The proposals would seem (from looking at the schedules) to involve around taking 15 buses off the road - hardly the end of the world.

.. Unless one of those buses is one you rely on to make a connecting bus or DART/LUAS because of the ridiculously long-winded way of getting around this city and the insistence of running everything via "An Lar"

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not sure what the issue is? Demand during the summer drops - there is no need for a full schedule during the entire summer period. Journey times also shorten - you can deliver a schedule with fewer buses/drivers.

If the proposal involves delivering the same level of service with less buses and the customer is unaware of it, that's absolutely fine and to be commended.

However, if the proposal involves removing services, there's a bit of a problem there. If your bus was the one removed, you'd have a problem with it unless you're very pragmatic and are willing to spend more time commuting either by starting your commute earlier or changing buses.

It's all well to say that demand has dropped but for the people still using the bus, their demand hasn't gone away.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

If the proposal involves delivering the same level of service with less buses and the customer is unaware of it, that's absolutely fine and to be commended.

However, if the proposal involves removing services, there's a bit of a problem there. If your bus was the one removed, you'd have a problem with it unless you're very pragmatic and are willing to spend more time commuting either by starting your commute earlier or changing buses.

It's all well to say that demand has dropped but for the people still using the bus, their demand hasn't gone away.

With the exception of the 7d (which I do find a bit odd), the changes will affect people by no more than 5 minutes.

I hardly see the issue with that?

LXFlyer

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I guess that depends on whether you are a student or a teacher who gets 3 month summer holidays, or an average Mon-Fri worker who gets 2 weeks


I'll get back to this in a minute..


That's a new one! I can't imagine my company cutting back services to customers because staff decided they'd rather go on holidays instead - in fact June end is our busiest time!


.. Unless one of those buses is one you rely on to make a connecting bus or DART/LUAS because of the ridiculously long-winded way of getting around this city and the insistence of running everything via "An Lar"

As above - the reduction in services proposed (excepting the 7d) would mean no more than a 5 minute difference in departure times - I can't see the issue with this.

If demand for the product drops on a seasonal basis, I really don't see an issue with adjusting the service to better utilise the resources.

The reason I mention cover for leave, is that over the last number of years there have been buses cancelled due to insufficient drivers being available during the summer - I would rather have a service that can be guaranteed to be delivered.

Summer schedules are fairly common in the bus industry in other countries - the same applies to the week between Christmas and New Year. The service is massive overkill in the morning peak during that week.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

With the exception of the 7d (which I do find a bit odd), the changes will affect people by no more than 5 minutes. I hardly see the issue with that?

My main problem is that in the six years that I used DB, I never found them to be overly reliable (mostly out of their own control) so if they say it'll add five minutes to my commute, I'd have to plan more than that to make allowances for their unpredictability.

Additionally, I presume, as usual, that the only place this is being notified is on their website so customers actually on the buses might well have no idea it's happening until their bus doesn't turn up. Other cities put notices on (relevant) buses telling their customers that their route will be affected but I've never seen DB do that.

And lastly, my particular bug bear is that the website shows the new timetable but doesn't state the differences, leaving it up to me to figure out which departures are affected and by how much. It also doesn't have mid point timetables for the affected routes so customers picking up the bus far from the terminus will have no idea when their bus will arrive.

As usual, DB have done something that happens all over the world and is reasonably quite simple into a mess.

_Kaiser_

lxflyer wrote: »

With the exception of the 7d (which I do find a bit odd), the changes will affect people by no more than 5 minutes.

I hardly see the issue with that?

But let's say that 5 minutes means you miss your connecting bus/train and the next one isn't for 30/40 mins.

Same thing during the week - if I leave the apartment 5 minutes later than normal, it can mean an extra 15/20 on my journey (as it did this morning for example)

All these few minutes can rapidly add up.

LXFlyer

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

But let's say that 5 minutes means you miss your connecting bus/train and the next one isn't for 30/40 mins.

Same thing during the week - if I leave the apartment 5 minutes later than normal, it can mean an extra 15/20 on my journey (as it did this morning for example)

All these few minutes can rapidly add up.

But given most journey times are actually faster now during the summer I seriously question whether this is going to have the impact that you suggest?

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

My main problem is that in the six years that I used DB, I never found them to be overly reliable (mostly out of their own control) so if they say it'll add five minutes to my commute, I'd have to plan more than that to make allowances for their unpredictability.

Additionally, I presume, as usual, that the only place this is being notified is on their website so customers actually on the buses might well have no idea it's happening until their bus doesn't turn up. Other cities put notices on (relevant) buses telling their customers that their route will be affected but I've never seen DB do that.

And lastly, my particular bug bear is that the website shows the new timetable but doesn't state the differences, leaving it up to me to figure out which departures are affected and by how much. It also doesn't have mid point timetables for the affected routes so customers picking up the bus far from the terminus will have no idea when their bus will arrive.

As usual, DB have done something that happens all over the world and is reasonably quite simple into a mess.

I don't disagree with your synopsis re communication but I do think that you are exaggerating the effects that this will have on customers (again I am excluding the 7D from this!!).

The changes are fairly minimal and I don't think that the impact will be that great. To be fair timetables have changed over the years on every route and people have managed to adjust to it - no one likes change but I honestly cannot see the point in running a full service when a slight reduction can cope with the demand.

In an ideal world these would have been implemented back in June - but lets be honest, we know that this is a fundamental part of the cost reduction package that have been on the table for over a year!

Fratton Fred

lxflyer wrote: »

But given most journey times are actually faster now during the summer I seriously question whether this is going to have the impact that you suggest?

I note you have mentioned the 7d, But on that, a lot of Dalkey users will jump on, zap their leap card and €2.45 later they are at work. Now it will be a €1.60 fare to DL and then €2.45 in to town. Presuming it is the same both ways, €3.20 a day extra will soon add up.

LXFlyer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I note you have mentioned the 7d, But on that, a lot of Dalkey users will jump on, zap their leap card and €2.45 later they are at work. Now it will be a €1.60 fare to DL and then €2.45 in to town. Presuming it is the same both ways, €3.20 a day extra will soon add up.

I would suggest then that they invest in Travel 90 tickets.

I will reiterate that I find that particular change somewhat hard to fathom.

eclectichoney

Looks like the 7d is hopefully back judging by the timetable online?? Hoping to get it on Monday from dalkey for the first time ever (7:20) is it pretty reliable?

Thanks

LXFlyer

The 7d never stopped as the summer timetables never came into operation.