Scumbags shining lasers into truck drivers eyes.

arleitiss

Hey, so was going from work and noticed this thing in summerhill area, bunch of scumbags standing on side of road and shining green laser pointer into drivers eyes, I was going down the road and bin service truck was behind me, apparently they chose him as target and started shining green laser pointer into drivers eyes, just wondering is this something new? or has this kind of behavior been around a long time before?

What truck drivers did shocked me though, can't say they didn't deserve it though, the truck driver turned car suddenly and started going towards bunch of those scumbags, those got scared, shouted like little girls and jumped away. It sure was dangerous as I am sure they could be easily hit and ran over, but to be honest, I think they deserved that.

Anybody seen something like this happening before?

tmboy95

Car/van followed my friend for a good 10 min and then started shining laser in at their mirror while driving at night. Then passed my friend out. Some desperate b*sterds Around.

sigmundv

I've never seen this on the roads before, only in football matches on TV. Ronaldo always gets a laser pointed at him when he's about to take free kicks. Can't fault this truck driver for trying to scare these kids off. I'd wish these kids took up some intelligent hobbies instead being destructive all the time...

visual

They point them at plane's landing and taking off and have been for a number of years.

Kenny Logins

visual wrote: »

They point them at plane's landing and taking off and have been for a number of years.

I remember reading about one reported case of this, are you saying it is a regular occurrence? Link?

Del2005

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I remember reading about one reported case of this, are you saying it is a regular occurrence? Link?

It does happen a lot to aircraft. They also like the Garda chopper and more than likely the SAR and AirAmbulance. First I've heard of them doing it to drivers, they just used to shoot at them before.


The green lasers are illegal to have in this country.

ironclaw

Del2005 wrote: »

The green lasers are illegal to have in this country.

Not defending the scumbags but thats a grey area. You can't ban based on wavelength of a light source. And there is no Irish law governing power, just Health & Safety directives. The reason they are confiscated is they generally end up doing this type of behaviour.

They sit, very ambiguously and no clear definition that I've been able to get hold of, in a really weird part of Irish law regarding electronic weapons. They are however, to the best of my knowledge and research, perfectly legal to own.

Gotham

Del2005 wrote: »

The green lasers are illegal to have in this country.

The colour of the laser is not illegal, the milliwattage is. Green lasers can be within the 1mW legal range in Ireland.

biko

It should be allowed to drive over scumbags.
I'd come over from Galway to help out cull the Dub scummers.

Mc Love

Always happens after the scum come back from their sun holidays.

They throw stones from a flyover near me - scumbags

Kenny Logins

Mc Love wrote: »

Always happens after the scum come back from their sun holidays.

They throw stones from a flyover near me - scumbags

I presume they buy the lasers cheap on the tat markets and then collect the stones on the beach?

darragh o meara

Happened me a few years back coming down the M50 with an artic, little prick was standing on one if the flyovers. Fortunately I only suffered it for a sec and as the road was straight and relatively quiet I was ok.

Seemed to have been a lot of sh1t happening that night, I pulled in at one of the petrol stations on the Naas road and met a chap who'd had a concrete block thrown down on his car from a flyover. Made bits of his car which he'd just bought brand new that evening. Poor chap was devastated as he had his young child in the back. Thankfully some taxi driver saw it happening from above and caught the scrotes.

Blazer

darragh o meara wrote: »

Happened me a few years back coming down the M50 with an artic, little prick was standing on one if the flyovers. Fortunately I only suffered it for a sec and as the road was straight and relatively quiet I was ok.

Seemed to have been a lot of sh1t happening that night, I pulled in at one of the petrol stations on the Naas road and met a chap who'd had a concrete block thrown down on his car from a flyover. Made bits of his car which he'd just bought brand new that evening. Poor chap was devastated as he had his young child in the back. Thankfully some taxi driver saw it happening from above and caught the scrotes.

Should have thrown them over the flyover.
Little fúcking scumbags could well have caused mayhem/death on the motorway and I'd have no sympathy for them.

snaps

what would the charge be? Attempted murder? It should be. I saw all that egyptian lot at the weekend shining the lasers at the military helicopters too.

biko

Aggravated assault maybe? Since the eye can be damaged it's definitely assault with intent to cause bodily harm.

endacl

Del2005 wrote: »

The green lasers are illegal to have in this country.

No they're not. Very popular with amateur astronomers. They're useful for guiding telescopes.

snaps

biko wrote: »

Aggravated assault maybe? Since the eye can be damaged it's definitely assault with intent to cause bodily harm.

Sorry I should have said charge for throwing blocks down onto cars

CreepingDeath

biko wrote: »

Aggravated assault maybe? Since the eye can be damaged it's definitely assault with intent to cause bodily harm.

The laser is probably classified as a firearm.

endacl

CreepingDeath wrote: »

The laser is probably classified as a firearm.

Watching too much Star Wars...?

ironclaw

endacl wrote: »

Watching too much Star Wars...?

They do have an ambiguous definition in the Firearms Act believe it or not. But its more so under electronic weapons i.e. Tasers.

YbFocus

I know of a local lad to me who's hobby it was to throw cavity blocks of bridges at train drivers.
He's in jail now and rightly so, some people are so dumb, as I'd they can't see the danger they're putting people in!

Conmaicne Mara

arleitiss wrote: »

started going towards bunch of those scumbags, those got scared, shouted like little girls and jumped away. It sure was dangerous as I am sure they could be easily hit and ran over, but to be honest, I think they deserved that.

I'd give him a medal if he squished them. Country is awash with scumbags.

CiniO

This remind me of case which happened nearby my hometown in Poland this winter.
Three teenagers were standing on the bridge above the motorway, and throwing ice chunks at cars.
One chunk hit the truck windscreen which broke. Ice got inside, hit the driver who lost control. Truck ended in the ditch and driver was killed.

Recently all three teenagers were charged for manslaughter.

miller50841

These lasers are illegal in Ireland they are usually bought in Spain.

I have been hit with them at least 5 times now and can tell you for a fact when they hit the windscreen the light breaks up and shines dots all over which in turn actually confuses your eyes which can cause you to swerve or crash.

Last time it happened was at dusk in Crumlin and they pointed it at me from across a field where they thought I wouldn't see who done it.

I pulled up outside the house and told the a hole that did it the cops would be calling if he done it again. Obviously didn't give a sh1t.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

arleitiss

Happened today again, but yeah as above said: The windscreen split the beam and it just refracted/redirected beam into dashboard and nothing else, thought of calling Garda and say but then realized they wont do anything other then arrive to find out nobody there. Somebody should obviously throw these ****s off bridge onto motorway to be driver over, they are useless anyway and other than claim welfare, and put others in danger + make mad reputation for specific areas there is no use of them (talking about scumbags)

P.S - I know what I said sounds a bit violent/harsh, but honestly that's my opinion, that's what I've noticed over past few years of living in Ireland.

meoklmrk91

I've seen this happen on two different occaisions, both times I drove straight down to the local Garda station and told them what was happening, wether they did anything about it or not I don't know, but it drives me mad so I'm not going to leave it off, it's so dangerous.

carzony

There is an actual law against shining any light source into someone's face. I'v been looking but can't actually find the legislation.

Miike

carzony wrote: »

There is an actual law against shining any light source into someone's face. I'v been looking but can't actually find the legislation.

If and when you find this can you PM it to me? I've a use for this information

Thom Merrilin

carzony wrote: »

There is an actual law against shining any light source into someone's face. I'v been looking but can't actually find the legislation.

Better stop using the oul headlamps on the car so! Cheers!

Del2005

carzony wrote: »

There is an actual law against shining any light source into someone's face. I'v been looking but can't actually find the legislation.

The lasers are so powerful it would be assault or one of the Bodily Harms, can never remember which is for a weapon

Popoutman

The lower wattage lasers are *not* illegal to own.

It could be construed as assault to shine a laser of *any* strength towards someone else, whether or not they are operating machinery of any type or not.

<5mW lasers will not cause harm to the eyeball, as the blink reflex is enough to mitigate the retinal exposure. If one were to stare into a 1mW laser, then damage could be caused but the blink reflex would have to be overridden. 100mW lasers and higher have their uses, but can cause damage before the blink reflex takes hold. Lasers of this power can be found in any dvd or blueray writer and it is trivial to build those laser diodes into a pointing device.

My lasers have a relatively tight beam, with 30cm beam width at 1km distance. Based on this, the beam width would be about 7 metres at the distance of aircraft at cruise altitude which would be completely harmless as the brightness would be less than that of bright streetlights or monument floodlighting. Plus it's very difficult to maintain a steady illumination of a moving object so the laser beam wouldn't be seen as a continuous light. In other words - harmless to cruising aircraft. It's a different case of course when on approach to the runway and being painted from near the flight slope!

Any driver that feels the need to swerve to the point where they could lose control of the vehicle if they see a bright light at night needs to examine whether they should be on the road after sunset, and should visit an ophthalmologist in case they have early onset cataracts or other glare-causing condition. If dazzled e.g. by a headlight, then you slow down. You should already have a good idea of the shape of the road ahead if you are paying attention.

I've been an astronomer for a good few years, and I've found that the green laser pointers are extremely useful for both acting as a finderscope replacement and as an aid to teaching when in a group. I've also used the violet pointers (405nm) are useful for this purpose as the brightness won't drop as much when it is cold. The violet beam is harder to see from the side which is good if I don't want to scare the neighbours.

Overall there's a lot of scaremongering going on with laser pointers, and it's a pity as I have a very real and safe use for them - I really don't want to see them banned in any way, but I'd like to see clarification on the punishments for misuse.

Renegade Mechanic

****s spent 10 minutes in my rear view mirror in cork one night till I turned around and faced them. Oddly enough, they stopped and we went separate ways but this really is a big problem. Are they as damaging as people say or are they just annoying as hell?

Voodoomelon

darragh o meara wrote: »

Made bits of his car which he'd just bought brand new that evening. Poor chap was devastated as he had his young child in the back. Thankfully some taxi driver saw it happening from above and caught the scrotes.

Of course if they were under 18, they got a small smudge on their record, a JLO was assigned to them and the victim was left to foot the bill.

I served a customer a few months back who had a patch over his eye, he was a pilot landing in Dublin and some knobend on the ground directed a high wattage laser into the cabin. Had to have surgery on his eye.

Veloce

This was an issue on the westerly approach to Dublin Airport. Scumbags in Donaghmede / Balgriffin area were shining green lasers up at approaching aircraft and trying to hit the pilots. I even witnessed it as a passenger flying in one sunday night- it though it was like a disco light at first but I read online about lasers been pointed frequently.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ironclaw

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

****s spent 10 minutes in my rear view mirror in cork one night till I turned around and faced them. Oddly enough, they stopped and we went separate ways but this really is a big problem. Are they as damaging as people say or are they just annoying as hell?

They can be very damaging. Its a pure wavelength and tightly focused. Your eyes can't handle it for very long (i.e. milliseconds at most)

Del2005

Popoutman wrote: »

The lower wattage lasers are *not* illegal to own.

It could be construed as assault to shine a laser of *any* strength towards someone else, whether or not they are operating machinery of any type or not.

<5mW lasers will not cause harm to the eyeball, as the blink reflex is enough to mitigate the retinal exposure. If one were to stare into a 1mW laser, then damage could be caused but the blink reflex would have to be overridden. 100mW lasers and higher have their uses, but can cause damage before the blink reflex takes hold. Lasers of this power can be found in any dvd or blueray writer and it is trivial to build those laser diodes into a pointing device.

My lasers have a relatively tight beam, with 30cm beam width at 1km distance. Based on this, the beam width would be about 7 metres at the distance of aircraft at cruise altitude which would be completely harmless as the brightness would be less than that of bright streetlights or monument floodlighting. Plus it's very difficult to maintain a steady illumination of a moving object so the laser beam wouldn't be seen as a continuous light. In other words - harmless to cruising aircraft. It's a different case of course when on approach to the runway and being painted from near the flight slope!

Any driver that feels the need to swerve to the point where they could lose control of the vehicle if they see a bright light at night needs to examine whether they should be on the road after sunset, and should visit an ophthalmologist in case they have early onset cataracts or other glare-causing condition. If dazzled e.g. by a headlight, then you slow down. You should already have a good idea of the shape of the road ahead if you are paying attention.

I've been an astronomer for a good few years, and I've found that the green laser pointers are extremely useful for both acting as a finderscope replacement and as an aid to teaching when in a group. I've also used the violet pointers (405nm) are useful for this purpose as the brightness won't drop as much when it is cold. The violet beam is harder to see from the side which is good if I don't want to scare the neighbours.

Overall there's a lot of scaremongering going on with laser pointers, and it's a pity as I have a very real and safe use for them - I really don't want to see them banned in any way, but I'd like to see clarification on the punishments for misuse.

The problem with this country is they never tackle the people who cause the issue they just ban the item they use. The only people it affects are legitimate users, like yourself, as the scumbags never care and will just move onto something else or keep buying them outside the country.

derry

I worked with lasers for medical instruments to burn skin layers .
As best I can tell from the stat sheet any low power laser light has potential for damage but the risks increase over 5 watts.
we worked with pointers of 5 watts and burners of much more power which pulsed the power often three colour multi heads to suit different skins and different skin conditions .
We had special laser protection Glasses but we never tried to prove if they worked being blinded for life in micro seconds wasn't worth the risk .We were very very careful one mistake was often the last mistake to be made in work .
Now why scumbags would find this fun I don't know .
In the Iran Iraq war of the late 1980's there were many soldiers blinded for life from powerful lasers .

In the late 1980 there was helicopter north side industrial est lifting stuff onto factory roof .The local gougers threw stones at it and knocked it down to the ground making a controlled heavy landing .A locals security guard who went to help chopper pilot pelted with many stones got one eye badly damaged for life from one stone that hit him.
Who needs Taliban terrorist when you got scum bags who breed new scum bags every few decades and now they want to knock out passenger planes and trucks and cars


In the 1980,s I worked with the scum bags of those days to try to teach them stuff on government courses sponsored to give courses for the disadvantaged north side and Dublin city regions .My conclusion then was they will grow out of it when they get to 21 but the mayhem in those days the massive stealing of cars to ram garda cars was legend
You couldn't reason with them chasing garda cars to ram them wasn't funny .You could teach them very sophisticated things like sailing and motor boats use and repair and then they would come in the weekends with stolen car at night to try to steal the boating gear from the boating shops .The vicious guard dogs the boss had was something they couldn't figure out how to get around so that often left them empty handed but not before windows and doors and boats and equipment got damaged .Blood trails suggested some dogs got extra food that night .
They told us they were mad lads and we concluded that they were truly mad lads
Their probably all now 30 to 40 often in the pub wheeling dealing and probably own and use their own small fishing boats from our training them with kids who run wild like they did .

Somehow there was time in the 1980s when we had the chance with more people employed on this problem to nip the problem in the bud . At that time the majority of the kids from under privileged regions of dublin were normal kids didnt do anything much bad like to play sports normal stuff .The problem was this hard core group was always gaining new members from them as they exposed they could run riot and nothing could stop them not even the Garda or the laws However the PTB of that time only wanted to put plasters on the problems stick them on summer courses which did slow them down a tad .The kids were bored some of them reduced their mad activity to some extent when they learn t things like how to fix engines for boats but once the summer course finished they went back to their old ways very quickly .It really required a full time one year program to keep the kids attention away from stupid thing like stealing cars vandalism drugs stealing and general mayhem .The PTB in those day the likes of Charlie Haughy the likeable thief the successors to Charlie etc would not go there they were too busy stealing the cash to line their nests .So it became a case of those who throw stones in glass houses .

If we didn't have so many unpaid volunteers who run the football matches and other activities scouts youth halls etc there would be millions of kids throwing stones on the high ways .However it requires even more activity from the PTB to sponsor many activities which require funding as the reduction in damage to society will repay itself as less scum bags will be out there throwing rocks if the re is more things to do to keep them busy .The PTB ar e now too busy linig their nests again and giving wads of cash to the rich like Banksters and IMF and EU

Expect more rocks as the few youth activity social programs that existed close down and the kids get really bored. Unfortunately it us working joe soaps who get the rocks and that can wreck out lives from injuries and there is bugger all compo for that if we lose work and health from rocks or car crashes .

Sorry I don't know the solutions but I do know the lack of correct action to reduce the problems in the 1980 and 1990s is why we see more of this activity in the 2000 eras

Derry

Renegade Mechanic

ironclaw wrote: »

They can be very damaging. Its a pure wavelength and tightly focused. Your eyes can't handle it for very long (i.e. milliseconds at most)

:eek: Thats it. Next "laser ranger" will get a fright he wont forget, thats lethal!

tmboy95

Really pisses me off! Other day i was driving passed an area and egg thrown at my car and cars ahead of me. In broad daylight, early this year was driving along in a tractor helping a friend and few youngfellas hardly about 8 years of age, threw a stone straight off the windscreen of the tractor. I was fuming over it. They have no respect at all.
What if a eldery person was driving along and it happened, they would get a awful fright and also it could seriously effect visability if eggs hit windscreen. Just drives me mad sometimes. Everyone knows these people, and we all know they'll end up no where in life, youd love to see them get a good hiding!

Miike

tmboy95 wrote: »

Really pisses me off! Other day i was driving passed an area and egg thrown at my car and cars ahead of me. In broad daylight, early this year was driving along in a tractor helping a friend and few youngfellas hardly about 8 years of age, threw a stone straight off the windscreen of the tractor. I was fuming over it. They have no respect at all.
What if a eldery person was driving along and it happened, they would get a awful fright and also it could seriously effect visability if eggs hit windscreen. Just drives me mad sometimes. Everyone knows these people, and we all know they'll end up no where in life, youd love to see them get a good hiding!

The common response to people throwing eggs at your windscreen is naturally hit them with some water. This is where people can make a lethal mistake the fluid can turn milky and totally occlude someones vision! I've seen a few cases of in the past as part of an Emergency Services team. It's really dangerous. I think regardless of age this kind of behavior needs to be punished harshly.

tmboy95

On the topic of eggs be thrown at cars and stuff have a read of this lads! Came across it on facebook just copied and pasted it here for ye.
~~
ON A SERIOUS NOTE NOW LADS!
please read....
While driving on a rural end of the roadway on Thursday morning, I saw an infant car seat on the side of the road with a blanket draped over it. For whatever reason, I did not stop, even though I had all kinds of thoughts running through my head. But when I got to my destination, I called the Police and they were going to check it out. But, this is what the Police advised even before they went out there to check....

"There are several things to be aware of ... Gangs and thieves mostly from Eastern Europe are now plotting different ways to get a person (mostly women)to stop their vehicle and get out of the car.

"There is a gang initiation reported by the local Police where gangs are placing a car seat by the road...with a fake baby in it...waiting for a woman, of course, to stop and check on the abandoned baby. "Note that the location of this car seat is usually beside a wooded or grassy (field) area and the person -- woman -- will be dragged into the woods, beaten and raped, and usually left for dead. If it's a man, they're usually beaten and robbed and maybe left for dead, too.

DO NOT STOP FOR ANY REASON!!! DIAL 9-9-9 AND REPORT WHAT YOU SAW, BUT DON'T EVEN SLOW DOWN.

"IF YOU ARE DRIVING AT NIGHT AND EGGS ARE THROWN AT YOUR WINDSCREEN, DO NOT STOP TO CHECK THE CAR, DO NOT OPERATE THE WIPER AND DO NOT SPRAY ANY WATER BECAUSE EGGS MIXED WITH WATER BECOME MILKY AND BLOCK YOUR VISION UP TO 92.5%, AND YOU ARE THEN FORCED TO STOP BESIDE THE ROAD AND BECOME A VICTIM OF THESE CRIMINALS.

THIS IS A NEW TECHNIQUE USED BY GANGS, SO PLEASE INFORM YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES. THESE ARE DESPERATE TIMES AND THESE ARE UNSAVOURY INDIVIDUALS WHO WILL TAKE DESPERATE MEASURES TO GET WHAT THEY WANT."

Please talk to your loved ones about this. This is a new tactic used. Please be safe.

Get started NOW -- SEND THIS MESSAGE TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES TO BE CAREFUL AND AWARE OF EVERYTHING AROUND THEM SO AS NOT TO BECOME A VICTIM.
~~
Though as people have said most are just little scumbags.

arleitiss

I hope somebody runs them over one day

Chimaera

tmboy95 wrote: »

On the topic of eggs be thrown at cars and stuff have a read of this lads! Came across it on facebook just copied and pasted it here for ye.
~~
ON A SERIOUS NOTE NOW LADS!
please read....
While driving on a rural end of the roadway on Thursday morning, I saw an infant car seat on the side of the road with a blanket draped over it. For whatever reason, I did not stop, even though I had all kinds of thoughts running through my head. But when I got to my destination, I called the Police and they were going to check it out. But, this is what the Police advised even before they went out there to check....

"There are several things to be aware of ... Gangs and thieves mostly from Eastern Europe are now plotting different ways to get a person (mostly women)to stop their vehicle and get out of the car.

"There is a gang initiation reported by the local Police where gangs are placing a car seat by the road...with a fake baby in it...waiting for a woman, of course, to stop and check on the abandoned baby. "Note that the location of this car seat is usually beside a wooded or grassy (field) area and the person -- woman -- will be dragged into the woods, beaten and raped, and usually left for dead. If it's a man, they're usually beaten and robbed and maybe left for dead, too.

DO NOT STOP FOR ANY REASON!!! DIAL 9-9-9 AND REPORT WHAT YOU SAW, BUT DON'T EVEN SLOW DOWN.

"IF YOU ARE DRIVING AT NIGHT AND EGGS ARE THROWN AT YOUR WINDSCREEN, DO NOT STOP TO CHECK THE CAR, DO NOT OPERATE THE WIPER AND DO NOT SPRAY ANY WATER BECAUSE EGGS MIXED WITH WATER BECOME MILKY AND BLOCK YOUR VISION UP TO 92.5%, AND YOU ARE THEN FORCED TO STOP BESIDE THE ROAD AND BECOME A VICTIM OF THESE CRIMINALS.

THIS IS A NEW TECHNIQUE USED BY GANGS, SO PLEASE INFORM YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES. THESE ARE DESPERATE TIMES AND THESE ARE UNSAVOURY INDIVIDUALS WHO WILL TAKE DESPERATE MEASURES TO GET WHAT THEY WANT."

Please talk to your loved ones about this. This is a new tactic used. Please be safe.

Get started NOW -- SEND THIS MESSAGE TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES TO BE CAREFUL AND AWARE OF EVERYTHING AROUND THEM SO AS NOT TO BECOME A VICTIM.
~~
Though as people have said most are just little scumbags.

Bullsh1t!!!

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/eggthrow.asp

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/crime/a/eggs_windshield_crime_alert.htm

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/egg-windshield-robbery.shtml

tmboy95

Thanks for clearing that up Chimaera. Thought it was actually genuine, awful sh*t on that Facebook.

the_syco

endacl wrote: »

No they're not. Very popular with amateur astronomers. They're useful for guiding telescopes.

Pretty sure customs have confiscated them.

=-=

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=27124
Old, but I wonder if it's seen as a weapon?

arleitiss

the_syco wrote: »

Pretty sure customs have confiscated them.

=-=

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=27124
Old, but I wonder if it's seen as a weapon?

If you are good with electronics, you could build laser yourself, well:
The DVD/Blu Ray readers have laser diodes in them, I had a 300mw laser diode once (ordered from US), then I put together some diodes/resistors/potentiometer, a battery and it came out as IR (only Video equipment visible) Laser beam, it was able to burn your hand if you hold it for a few seconds. I was 15 back then, and this seemed like a big fun, but since I couldn't see a beam and I didn't add any kind of LED which indicates it on, I left it on once and my keyboard started melting as it was pointed towards it, after that I took it apart and I still have parts for it lying around home, not much use of such thing really.

But anyway, I doubt those types of idiots who throw eggs and shine lasers into eyes would figure this out, in fact I think someone should build 1w (1000mw) laser and just shine it into those little prick faces. (I know I sound a bi cruel here) but honestly, they seem to have no brain to do **** like that.

Renegade Mechanic

tmboy95 wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up Chimaera. Thought it was actually genuine, awful sh*t on that Facebook.

Yeah but from a gang point of view theyre all still pretty good ideas.

Sleepy

When the abortion referendum finally happens, remember which section of society is most likely to avail of it and vote in a way that should lead your children not having to deal with such scum when they're adults.

Roe v Wade played an important part in New York's cleanup. Similar laws are needed here.

Miike

Sleepy wrote: »

When the abortion referendum finally happens, remember which section of society is most likely to avail of it and vote in a way that should lead your children not having to deal with such scum when they're adults.

Roe v Wade played an important part in New York's cleanup. Similar laws are needed here.

I somehow managed to analyze those laws like that and when I spoke to some people at work about it they were disgusted with my line of thinking or that I could even think up something like that :eek: I dunno if I'm sick or genius! :rolleyes: