How to lose beer belly/general round belly

KingOfFairview

Generally speaking I'm fairly fit. I eat well enough (better than the vast majority of people, sweet FA processed crap, very little fat) and do a reasonable amount of of weight training.

However, I can't loose my roundy belly. I have only a small amount flab on it, but the underlying shape is round, even though I do a fair few crunches (3X30 3 times a week). Most of the time it's not noticeable, but after a meal or especially when I'm drinking beer, frankly it looks like I'm pregnant. In general I want to get it flatter. I could be wrong, but I see lots of guys with much flatter stomachs than me and many of them don't do any sit ups or crunches at all.

I'm 33, 6 foot tall and weight 13.75 stone. No double chin, not flabby at all in general. I'm not trying to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, just flatten it down some.

Any tips, dietary or exercise-wise?

UnholyGregor

if youre fat, simply eat fewer calories.
Also youre wasting time doing ab exercises if youre over 10% bodyfat, as they wont do **** to remove the fat infront of your abs, regardless of how strong they become.
try some fork putdowns, theyre great for abs.
srs though, as the old saying goes "abs are made in the kitchen"

KingOfFairview

UnholyGregor wrote: »

if youre fat, simply eat fewer calories.
Also youre wasting time doing ab exercises if youre over 10% bodyfat, as they wont do **** to remove the fat infront of your abs, regardless of how strong they become.
try some fork putdowns, theyre great for abs.
srs though, as the old saying goes "abs are made in the kitchen"

I'm not fat, the problem is the underlying muscle rather than the minimal fat above it.

meijin

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Generally speaking I'm fairly fit. I eat well enough (better than the vast majority of people, sweet FA processed crap, very little fat) and do a reasonable amount of of weight training.

However, I can't loose my roundy belly. I have only a small amount flab on it, but the underlying shape is round, even though I do a fair few crunches (3X30 3 times a week). Most of the time it's not noticeable, but after a meal or especially when I'm drinking beer, frankly it looks like I'm pregnant. In general I want to get it flatter. I could be wrong, but I see lots of guys with much flatter stomachs than me and many of them don't do any sit ups or crunches at all.

I'm 33, 6 foot tall and weight 13.75 stone. No double chin, not flabby at all in general. I'm not trying to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, just flatten it down some.

Any tips, dietary or exercise-wise?

maybe it's called "beer belly" for a reason? :rolleyes:
stop drinking beer?
any particular meals cause this? gluten? dairy?

I would recommend this for diet: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056501032
and this for exercises: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056185716

forget crunches

Hanley

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I'm not fat, the problem is the underlying muscle rather than the minimal fat above it.

1) it's not a lack of "underlying muscle"
2) if you're drinking beer regularly your diet is not good
3) what did you eat yesterday?

accensi0n

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Generally speaking I'm fairly fit. I eat well enough (better than the vast majority of people, sweet FA processed crap, very little fat) and do a reasonable amount of of weight training.

However, I can't loose my roundy belly. I have only a small amount flab on it, but the underlying shape is round, even though I do a fair few crunches (3X30 3 times a week). Most of the time it's not noticeable, but after a meal or especially when I'm drinking beer, frankly it looks like I'm pregnant. In general I want to get it flatter. I could be wrong, but I see lots of guys with much flatter stomachs than me and many of them don't do any sit ups or crunches at all.

Can you post in detail what you would eat on a typical day and also on a 'bad' day. How often would you have 'bad' days?

Also, as highlighted, you say you eat FA processed crap but also that you drink beer, is that say 1 beer a month or a lot more?

Answering the above questions will allow the more knowledgeable posters to help you better.

You should read through the stickies as well if you havn't already.

KingOfFairview

A typical day's grub for me would be

Breakfast: Small bowl of cereal, slice of toast, tea

Snack: 36 almonds, two slices brown bread and butter, tea, banana

Lunch: roll with turkey, cheese, lettuce and tomato

Dinner: Generally two chicken breasts and rice or steak and home-cut chips

Snack: two hard boiled eggs, two slices bread and natural peanutbutter (not the crap with loads of sugar and salt), banana, orange and some grapes, four squares of chocolate

Plenty of water through the day. Don't drink fizzy drinks, eat crisps, McDs etc. A bad day might involve a bowl of ice cream, but honestly that would be something that happens about every three weeks.

Binge drink every two weeks, this would typically involve 12 or so pints of beer. Is the beer really the sole culprit? I can honestly say I'm not fat, no one would ever think I am, it's just a round belly, and as I say it only really gets bloated right after I eat or drink beer. Generally speaking it look OK (well, by Irish standards).

Appreciate ye taking the time to respond. Will check the stickies out.

endacl

How's your posture, OP? Just something to think about if, as you say, your body fat is low...

Cereals and rolls and chips are processed and not good
If you have the belly I would guess at the bread and chips and beer

KingOfFairview

endacl wrote: »

How's your posture, OP? Just something to think about if, as you say, your body fat is low...

I wouldn'y say it's bad, but I do work at a desk. I think generally it's pretty good, why, is this a contributary factor?

bluewolf wrote: »

Cereals and rolls and chips are processed and not good
If you have the belly I would guess at the bread and chips and beer

The chips are cut by myself from potatoes, they aren't processed. Rolls and cereal, yes, I'll give you that. I would have thought most people eat a hell of a lot more processed stuff than that though? I eat chips about once a week.

Carbs, carbs and more carbs.

Breakfast: Small bowl of cereal, slice of toast, tea

Snack: 36 almonds, two slices brown bread and butter, tea, banana

Lunch: roll with turkey, cheese, lettuce and tomato

Dinner: Generally two chicken breasts and rice or steak and home-cut chips

Snack: two hard boiled eggs, two slices bread and natural peanutbutter (not the crap with loads of sugar and salt), banana, orange and some grapes, four squares of chocolate

Let's call those 24 pints a month 6 pints a week, that's a good thousand calories a week.

Get rid of the carbs (and probably a banana or 5 a week) and watch your fruit intake.
I doubt there are an awful lot of people in Ireland without a 6-pack due to lack of muscle mass. Keep doing the ab exercises if you like but fat will sit "outside" your abs until you get your overall body fat down low enough.

KingOfFairview

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I wouldn'y say it's bad, but I do work at a desk. I think generally it's pretty good, why, is this a contributary factor?



The chips are cut by myself from potatoes, they aren't processed. Rolls and cereal, yes, I'll give you that. I would have thought most people eat a hell of a lot more processed stuff than that though? I eat chips about once a week.

I find most people complain of bloating in the tummy and even pains after bready and carby stuff so I would cut that out for a month or so AND the beer (and the cereal is sugary and mucky so I'd switch that out also) and see how you feel after that.

When you said home cut I thought you meant a brand of them not actually home made

endacl

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I wouldn'y say it's bad, but I do work at a desk. I think generally it's pretty good, why, is this a contributary factor?

I don't know in your case, but even relatively skinny people with a bit of a slouch can have the appearance of a bit of a paunch. Try standing with your hips/shoulders/elbows flat to a wall. Is the bit of a belly still as bad as you think it is? Don't cheat by lying down and pretending the floor is a wall! Gravity will lie to you!

Nonoperational

Your posture plays in a part in your belly sticking out. Stand up straight with your shoulders back and see yourself.

You seem to be getting quite a few calories all the same, even if some are healthy. And obviously 12 pint sessions will bloat you... It would be interesting to see how you were if you stopped drinking beer for a month and cut out one of the snacks.

KingOfFairview

Deleted User wrote: »

Carbs, carbs and more carbs.

Breakfast: Small bowl of cereal, slice of toast, tea

Snack: 36 almonds, two slices brown bread and butter, tea, banana

Lunch: roll with turkey, cheese, lettuce and tomato

Dinner: Generally two chicken breasts and rice or steak and home-cut chips

Snack: two hard boiled eggs, two slices bread and natural peanutbutter (not the crap with loads of sugar and salt), banana, orange and some grapes, four squares of chocolate

Let's call those 24 pints a month 6 pints a week, that's a good thousand calories a week.

Get rid of the carbs (and probably a banana or 5 a week) and watch your fruit intake.
I doubt there are an awful lot of people in Ireland without a 6-pack due to lack of muscle mass. Keep doing the ab exercises if you like but fat will sit "outside" your abs until you get your overall body fat down low enough.

bluewolf wrote: »

I find most people complain of bloating in the tummy and even pains after bready and carby stuff so I would cut that out for a month or so AND the beer (and the cereal is sugary and mucky so I'd switch that out also) and see how you feel after that.

When you said home cut I thought you meant a brand of them not actually home made

Hmm... unfortunately I thought this might be the case. OK, so what effect would cutting down on the carbs have? Simple fat reduction? Less bloating? Bear in mind I'm fairly new to this whole 'looking after yourself' stuff.

Also, bearing in mind that I'm not giving up beer, is any particular brand better than the rest for avoiding bloating and carbs?

KingOfFairview

endacl wrote: »

I don't know in your case, but even relatively skinny people with a bit of a slouch can have the appearance of a bit of a paunch. Try standing with your hips/shoulders/elbows flat to a wall. Is the bit of a belly still as bad as you think it is? Don't cheat by lying down and pretending the floor is a wall! Gravity will lie to you!

Nonoperational wrote: »

Your posture plays in a part in your belly sticking out. Stand up straight with your shoulders back and see yourself.

You seem to be getting quite a few calories all the same, even if some are healthy. And obviously 12 pint sessions will bloat you... It would be interesting to see how you were if you stopped drinking beer for a month and cut out one of the snacks.

Not much of a slouch to be honest, but it's something I'll watch for sure.

KingOfFairview

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Hmm... unfortunately I thought this might be the case. OK, so what effect would cutting down on the carbs have? Simple fat reduction? Less bloating? Bear in mind I'm fairly new to this whole 'looking after yourself' stuff.

Also, bearing in mind that I'm not giving up beer, is any particular brand better than the rest for avoiding bloating and carbs?

We're not saying give it up forever, we're saying give it all up for a month and see how you feel. That's two sessions only. Give up those rubbishy carbs and the beer for the month, then try reintroducing the beer if you like. Tummy comes back, there's your problem.

accensi0n

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I wouldn'y say it's bad, but I do work at a desk. I think generally it's pretty good, why, is this a contributary factor?

The chips are cut by myself from potatoes, they aren't processed. Rolls and cereal, yes, I'll give you that. I would have thought most people eat a hell of a lot more processed stuff than that though? I eat chips about once a week.

Ok, from this point onwards, most posters are going to suggest changes to your diet that you may find radical. They are only trying to help and what they suggest, for the most part, WILL help.

What you think is an OK diet, really isn't. Granted it's probably a fairly typical irish persons diet and similar to what your friends and family have, but it's not healthy nor conducive to your goal.

You now need to decide how much you want this flat stomach and read posters suggestions with an open mind.

It will probably be something like:

For the next month,
- Give up all alcohol
- Give up all bread, pasta, cakes, sweets, takeaways, junk
- Eats tonnes of veg, fish, quality meats, healthy oils etc.

It's only a month, see how you get on.

KingOfFairview

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Hmm... unfortunately I thought this might be the case. OK, so what effect would cutting down on the carbs have? Simple fat reduction? Less bloating? Bear in mind I'm fairly new to this whole 'looking after yourself' stuff.

All of that. The difference within a week or two can be massive for some people. Do a little bit of bodyweight exercises if you don't think you have time or money for the gym, there's plenty of threads on here and google is your friend. Sign up for fitday or similar and track things for a week or 2.

Also, bearing in mind that I'm not giving up beer, is any particular brand better than the rest for avoiding bloating and carbs?

Does it have to be beer?

KingOfFairview

bluewolf wrote: »

We're not saying give it up forever, we're saying give it all up for a month and see how you feel. That's two sessions only. Give up those rubbishy carbs and the beer for the month, then try reintroducing the beer if you like. Tummy comes back, there's your problem.

about once a year I'd take a month off (usually either November or January), no major difference to be honest.

KingOfFairview

KingOfFairview wrote: »

about once a year I'd take a month off (usually either November or January), no major difference to be honest.

And the diet?

KingOfFairview

Deleted User wrote: »

All of that. The difference within a week or two can be massive for some people. Do a little bit of bodyweight exercises if you don't think you have time or money for the gym, there's plenty of threads on here and google is your friend. Sign up for fitday or similar and track things for a week or 2.

I go to the gym three times a week, but pretty much all weight training, no cardio to speak of. I swim once a week though.

Deleted User wrote: »

Does it have to be beer?

Yes, TBH. Don't really like anything else.

Again, appreciate the replies.

endacl

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Hmm... unfortunately I thought this might be the case. OK, so what effect would cutting down on the carbs have? Simple fat reduction? Less bloating?

Less farting, for one!

Don't cut out the beer. Beer is one of. life's little joys. Change your beer habits maybe. 'Enjoy' two thirds of the amount you usually 'lower'. Over the same time.

KingOfFairview

bluewolf wrote: »

And the diet?

I do find the brown bread often has an immediate but short term bloating effect on me. It's the stone ground stuff though, full of fibre, so I thought that was generally meant to be good for you? I have cut down on it before, but my digestion got a bit slower.

KingOfFairview

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I go to the gym three times a week, but pretty much all weight training, no cardio to speak of. I swim once a week though.

Missed that, assumed when you were worried about underlying muscle there was no gym involved. :pac:

Yes, TBH. Don't really like anything else.

Again, appreciate the replies.

To be honest it's tough enough unless you're going to add in cardio. Get the diet sorted and skip one session, that's a whole month and see how you are.

Shane732

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I do find the brown bread often has an immediate but short term bloating effect on me. It's the stone ground stuff though, full of fibre, so I thought that was generally meant to be good for you? I have cut down on it before, but my digestion got a bit slower.

It's evil, it's all evil!

KingOfFairview

OK, I suppose a general fat and carb reduction is in order. It's a bit difficult, because I'm trying to put on muscle (pretty successfully, albeit starting from low base). In the past 8 months I've put on two stone (!), almost all muscle, and can lift far, far more than I could a year ago, so I've been fairly focussed on upping my protein intake, much more chicken, red meat, eggs etc. Seems it's difficult to do that without also gaining fat.

endacl

KingOfFairview wrote: »

OK, I suppose a general fat and carb reduction is in order. It's a bit difficult, because I'm trying to put on muscle (pretty successfully, albeit starting from low base). In the past 8 months I've put on two stone (!), almost all muscle, and can lift far, far more than I could a year ago, so I've been fairly focussed on upping my protein intake, much more chicken, red meat, eggs etc. Seems it's difficult to do that without also gaining fat.

Sounds like you're doing it right. Two stone of bulk?

Time to cut, boyo!!

allthedoyles

Grilled turkey rashers for breakfast on toast

UnholyGregor

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I'm not fat, the problem is the underlying muscle rather than the minimal fat above it.

dat delusion.
dude, i dont care how "healthy" you eat. If you cannot see your abs, they are covered in a layer of fat. 3000calories of chiclken breast and brocilli is the exact same as 3000calories of macdonalds when it comes to fat tissue. Count your calories and workout , and stop lying to yourself

atilladehun

Deleted User wrote: »

Carbs, carbs and more carbs.

Breakfast: Small bowl of cereal, slice of toast, tea

Snack: 36 almonds, two slices brown bread and butter, tea, banana

Lunch: roll with turkey, cheese, lettuce and tomato

Dinner: Generally two chicken breasts and rice or steak and home-cut chips

Snack: two hard boiled eggs, two slices bread and natural peanutbutter (not the crap with loads of sugar and salt), banana, orange and some grapes, four squares of chocolate

Let's call those 24 pints a month 6 pints a week, that's a good thousand calories a week.

Get rid of the carbs (and probably a banana or 5 a week) and watch your fruit intake.
I doubt there are an awful lot of people in Ireland without a 6-pack due to lack of muscle mass. Keep doing the ab exercises if you like but fat will sit "outside" your abs until you get your overall body fat down low enough.

Just wondering, what would you replace them with?
Do you find a drop in energy without carbs?

nice_guy80

quit beer and other alcoholic drinks
stop eating bread

start exercising

nice_guy80

atilladehun wrote: »

Just wondering, what would you replace them with?
Do you find a drop in energy without carbs?

no
the opposite is actually the case

wheat makes you bloated and prevents good digestion

replace wheat carbs with green veg - salad for lunch, vegs for dinner, sweet potato
more lean protein - eggs, tuna, salmon for lunch, non-breaded meat for dinner

nitna bitna

gerrup off yer big chunky arse & do somethin

atilladehun

atilladehun wrote: »

Just wondering, what would you replace them with?
Do you find a drop in energy without carbs?

When I was doing things properly the only major source of carbs I had was in white rice a couple of times a week and only after the gym, don't like turning down all that my parents offered me :pac: Other than that everything went with eggs (sometimes boiled and in the fridge, otherwise a couple in an omelette, would add bacon/ham, cheese, mushrooms, onion, peppers, whatever was to hand basically), fish, meat and veg. Buy a variety of herbs and spices and see which you like with chicken. See which fish you like and have a tin or 2 a day. A lump of steak with some mushrooms and peppers tossed into the pan with it isn't the worst thing to look forward to when you get home.

Keep track for a month or so. Fitday is awkward for serving sizes but I think there are better ones available online. Cut out all the grainy stuff for a few weeks, watch your carbs, skip one drinking session and see how you feel after a month. Also if you're taking any protein shakes check what's in them, the mass gainer ones are mainly sugar.

Hanley

UnholyGregor wrote: »

dat delusion.
dude, i dont care how "healthy" you eat. If you cannot see your abs, they are covered in a layer of fat. 3000calories of chiclken breast and brocilli is the exact same as 3000calories of macdonalds when it comes to fat tissue. Count your calories and workout , and stop lying to yourself

dat delusion

No it's not.

floggg

I'm by no means an expert (as my big food belly will attest to) but to me that diet seems crazy high in carbs.

If I even looked at that much food, I'd gain weight!

If I recall correctly, you said on an after hours thread that you only really do upper body stuff (or mainly at least) in the gym.

Would 2 stone of mainly muscle gain be realistic for upper body work only (question of the experts)? I would have thought upper body work would add the least muscle mass compared to heavy lower body or compound lifts like squat and dead lifts.

Isn't there some rule of thumb about how much muscle you can realistically gain in any period of time?

Also, if you're not doing cardio and just doing weights, would the heavy compound lifts like squats and dead lifts be better for you from a weight loss perspective?

Again, one for the experts.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Apart from what has already been suggested, some people have a barrel stomach. Concentrate on deep core movements like squats, deadlifts, pullups. Forget the isolation machines for the moment. try to get strength, density and tightness in you deep core muscles. This can take the rounded look off the abs. Avoid weighted ab exercises. After that its a matter of removing the superficial fat so your work is visible. That requires very low levels of bodyfat, and a fairly "extreme" diet.

KingOfFairview

Having done some more research into this im pretty convinced its bloating from too much carbs. Hadn't realised bananas, brown bread and almonds caused so much bloating, but thinking about it this often happens right after I eat them.

Will cut down on carbs and fat.

Magenta

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I'm not fat, the problem is the underlying muscle rather than the minimal fat above it.

You probably have visceral fat which is located within your abdomen. Not all fat is flab.

Hanley

Magenta wrote: »

You probably have visceral fat which is located within your abdomen. Not all fat is flab.

Should be noted visceral fat is the one that shows the highest positive correlation to heart attacks as well!

syklops

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Will cut down on carbs and fat.

What fat would you cut down. What fat did you say you eat? What poster suggested you cut down on fat?

Cut down on carbs.

Zillah

You just need to lose weight. There's nothing wrong with your ab muscles, "bloating" is a complete red herring. If you have a big belly its because there is too much fat there. You need to eat less, eat better, and do cardio. Making excuses is going to be completely counter-productive. There's little point doing crunches if your body fat is hiding the muscles.

There's an approximate body fat calculator here if you want to see what you're at:
http://www.channel4embarrassingillnesses.com/myhealthchecker/
Abs won't really show up properly until 10% or less.

Zillah

UnholyGregor wrote: »

dat delusion.
dude, i dont care how "healthy" you eat. If you cannot see your abs, they are covered in a layer of fat. 3000calories of chiclken breast and brocilli is the exact same as 3000calories of macdonalds when it comes to fat tissue. Count your calories and workout , and stop lying to yourself

3000 calories of McDonald's is far worse for you than 3000 calories of chicken and broccoli. The energy from lean meat and veg is release much more slowly and is much more gentle on your insulin levels, and will have far more protein and fibre in it, meaning you'll feel full sooner. 3000 calories of McDonald's will provide little more than a blood sugar spike and an insulin spike, which rapidly declines and is very bad for you.

All calories are not equal.

KingOfFairview

Zillah wrote: »

You just need to lose weight. There's nothing wrong with your ab muscles, "bloating" is a complete red herring. If you have a big belly its because there is too much fat there. You need to eat less, eat better, and do cardio. Making excuses is going to be completely counter-productive. There's little point doing crunches if your body fat is hiding the muscles.

There's an approximate body fat calculator here if you want to see what you're at:
http://www.channel4embarrassingillnesses.com/myhealthchecker/
Abs won't really show up properly until 10% or less.

How is bloating a red herring considering this only happens when I eat certain foods, and is temporary? My BMI is 25.5, but I have a fairly broad frame. I'm not making excuses, the honest truth is im by no means fat in general. I accept I should cut down in car a and fat (butter, chips I make myself), but I already exercise way more than most people and have made large gains in strength while putting on only minimal fat.

syklops

Zillah wrote: »

There's an approximate body fat calculator here if you want to see what you're at:
http://www.channel4embarrassingillnesses.com/myhealthchecker/
Abs won't really show up properly until 10% or less.

Thats a really good website. Although the test for ADHD isnt very good. I got distracted and didn't complete it.

Zillah

KingOfFairview wrote: »

How is bloating a red herring considering this only happens when I eat certain foods, and is temporary? My BMI is 25.5, but I have a fairly broad frame. I'm not making excuses, the honest truth is im by no means fat in general. I accept I should cut down in car a and fat (butter, chips I make myself), but I already exercise way more than most people and have made large gains in strength while putting on only minimal fat.

How much you feel that you exercise compared to other people doesn't really matter. You feel that you have a big round belly, that means you've got too much fat on your belly. You would likely be experiencing a large about of digestive discomfort all the time if you were experiencing bloating severe enough to cause a big belly.

Try this: Stand up, tense your abs up as hard as you can, and then poke around your belly with a finger. That fat that your finger sinks into can be reduced, which will make your belly smaller. You don't get "bloating" on the outside of your muscles.

If by some freaky twist of biology you have a big belly but no significant layer of fat between your muscle and skin then you should probably see a doctor about your abnormal bloating!

KingOfFairview

Zillah wrote: »

How much you feel that you exercise compared to other people doesn't really matter. You feel that you have a big round belly, that means you've got too much fat on your belly. You would likely be experiencing a large about of digestive discomfort all the time if you were experiencing bloating severe enough to cause a big belly.

Try this: Stand up, tense your abs up as hard as you can, and then poke around your belly with a finger. That fat that your finger sinks into can be reduced, which will make your belly smaller. You don't get "bloating" on the outside of your muscles.

If by some freaky twist of biology you have a big belly but no significant layer of fat between your muscle and skin then you should probably see a doctor about your abnormal bloating!

We're at cross-purposes. I do have more fat than I want on my belly, but only a little and I intend to lose it. However, that's not the main problem. I get majorly bloated after certain foods and beer, but its temporary. I hadn't realised that almonds, brown bread and bananas all cause bloating, and I frequently get this after eating them. When it happens I do feel really uncomfortable, but it goes away in a few hours (not sure how, im not farting or burping it out), its not a permanent state. If fat was the only problem, it would be permanent, no?

have2flushtwice

so if cereal is out for brekkie, what are the options,

boiled egg (all of it)
porridge?
fruit
tea
yoghurt?
anything else?

Aldi here I come!

from this thread I now have a list of do's and dont's , but the shocker for me was the cereal is processed! I actually never thought of it, and as one poster said, sure everyone eats cereal!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Bacon and eggs, turkey rashers and eggs, omelete, Protien pancakes, steak, chicken. Remember we eat breakfast foods for no other reason than we are told that they are breakfast foods and it somehow feels wrong to eat a curry for breakfast. Eating the same thing you eat for lunch and diner is just as good.

JJayoo

have2flushtwice wrote: »

so if cereal is out for brekkie, what are the options,

I had pancakes this morning.
Oats
2 eggs
low fat milk
30 grams whey

Blend it up and you have excellent pancake batter. Then top it with natural yogurt/honey/mashed banana. Nom