Contractor work on farm

yellow50HX

Like most part time farmers I get a lot of contract work done. Sometimes I would prefer to be able to do it myself but I don't always have the time to be able to do it myself. However there are times when I have to wait and sometimes miss out on weather windows.

How much contractor work do ye get done and is there much stuff you would prefer to do yourself, or vice versa decided to get some else to do it?

As it is I contract out the following
Ploughing, get in a lad with a 4 furrow reversible even though I have a 3 furrow, the reversible gives a much more even finish espically when reseeding.
Setting seeds, beet and barley mostly
Spreading dung, I usually load it myself and get a guy with a spreader to throw it out.
Mowing
Baling
Drawing in silage bales for wrapping
Wrapping and stacking
Spreading slurry and agitating
Hedge cutting

I do all my own tilling, harrowing, rotovating, rolling and spraying. I also do my own fertilzer spreading and any light digger work.

All this adds up to a big contractor bill at the end of the year and I have been looking to see what I might better doing myself. I don't see the logic of getting lots of machinery in one go so ideally I want to be able to use my existing tractor (7610 2wd) this yoke may get changed for a 4wd if I find a good deal on something.

I was thinking about maybe getting a mower, my topper died last summer (bearing failed in gearbox) the body is pretty shagged so I doubt I'll get anything other then scrap value for it. My theroy is a decent disc mower say 8ft could be used for mowing for the silage and can also be used for topping.

I'm also looking to see if I can do a bit on the silage making, realistically it would be either the baling or the drawing. I get a contractor with a tanco wrapper and stacker as it means that the wrapped bale has the minimum handling. However drawing the bales in takes ages when I don't use a keltec. Which leaves baling however I reckon my thrusty 7610 would be just too small to drive a chopper baler and make good bales. Also with an average of about 300-400 bales a year (silage and straw) would it be worth having one?

I had thought about getting my own dung spreader but as we use a slatted tank now and only have bedding for the calves the amount of dung with have now is quite small.

I had looked at getting a slurry tank and agitator as often I have to wait a few days to get the contractor and sometimes I miss the ideal spreading date. However I reckon using a small tanker say 1300 gallon would take ages as the tractor is 2wd it would struggle with anything bigger. I usually throw out about 30-35 loads a year (10,000 ltr tanker) so if I was using a 1300 tanker I'd be throwing out about 50 loads so I'd say I spend ages so I'd need to get a 4wd tractor and a 1600 gallon tanker min.

bob charles

do the feeding, spraying and cattle haulage myself and some of the slurry if im not busy. every other job isnt as weather dependent is done by contractor. Cost everything up and you will be surprised how much it cost to do these jobs.

1chippy

Feeding, rolling, fertilizzer, a small bit of the slurry and a small bit of the mowing. it doent justify buying machinery in my circumstance anyway.

Mulumpy

Only things I do myself here is fertiliser, topping, agitate slurry store, silage feeding, spraying and rolling. Have a very reliable contractor for rest. Is expensive but find it very satisfying that I can be in work and have my silage or slurry being still done at home plus not have the maintenance, diesel or repayment costs to worry about. Have an 8yr old jx90 in the yard and only 1300 hrs on it. Should last me a lifetime hopefully.

blue5000

All silage, dung spreading, hedge cutting and some tillage done by contractor.

Do my own slurry, fert spreading, topping and some of the tillage eg. tilling, rolling and ploughing.

If you look at accounts, add machinery depreciation, diesel, repairs and contractor costs and compare from farm to farm, they are usually fairly close, roughly 15-20% of total costs. AFAIK the only people with lower machinery costs are fairly big farmers with all their own fairly old (low depreciation) machinery that is well looked after.
I wonder why machinery rings never took off here, maybe it's because the fuppin weather is so bad:(

bob charles

blue5000 wrote: »

I wonder why machinery rings never took off here, maybe it's because the fuppin weather is so bad:(

No need to, how many contractors go broke. many are able to do the work cheaper than the cost of doing it

AntrimGlens

All we own is a 95hp tractor, fert spreader, topper, bale lifter, roller, fraser trailer power box, telescopic loader with bucket, pallet forks, bale stacker, bale spike and muck grab, quad, jeep and trailers. There was a 750 gallon tanker that needed a new pump so sold it. Theres a hire company 2 miles away where i can hire a sprayer, tanker, rotaspreader, low loader or anything else i might need.
The slurry is done by contractor any reseeding is done by contractor, all silage baling and mowing is done by contractor but i think i might have to invest in a sprayer as there is a serious amount of docks this year and the hire company were waiting on parts for the sprayer when i needed it so didn't get them done. I might buy a jarmet now as there only about 40 acres needing spraying annually so it won't be over worked.
Contractor and hire bill is usually quite a few thousand as you forget how often you hire something in, but we couldn't justify buying loads of kit for it to sit in the yard. My neighbour on the other hand keeps 200 ewes and has just bought a brand new skid steer to clean out the sheep house once every three years. he has every piece of kit possible for a new quad, digger and dumper and bought a fifteen foot ifor williams flatbed to move the quad and ride on lawnmower to his daughters house - oh yeah he works on the oil rigs half the year...

nashmach

Despite being small do a lot of work ourselves.

Can never justify mowing, baling, wrapping or hedge cutting though as if anything goes wrong it is mega bucks.

Most of our gear is old and I reckon once you have a good main tractor and a decent second tractor the gear just needs to be in good mechanical order.

We just buy/replace something every year so it doesn't cost much per year.

You do need to be handy with spanners though!

grazeaway

blue5000 wrote: »

All silage, dung spreading, hedge cutting and some tillage done by contractor.

Do my own slurry, fert spreading, topping and some of the tillage eg. tilling, rolling and ploughing.

If you look at accounts, add machinery depreciation, diesel, repairs and contractor costs and compare from farm to farm, they are usually fairly close, roughly 15-20% of total costs. AFAIK the only people with lower machinery costs are fairly big farmers with all their own fairly old (low depreciation) machinery that is well looked after.
I wonder why machinery rings never took off here, maybe it's because the fuppin weather is so bad

id say it cos some lad will always taking the piss. If you can all agree on teh machines use and everyone is usign it for roughly the same amount of time then it'll work as long as there is enough flexibility that its not used at the excat time.

The in-law's are from the contient and the 1st time i was there i was like a child at christmas looking at all the gear on their farm (they have tillage and cattle) however i did find it a bit odd that they had so much gear. Most of it is in a machaiery ring but is stored at thier place as they have single big shed to store it. The gear for their own farm include a loader, various loader attachements, 2 4wd tractors (one is only really needed for the sowing season so is hired out for the rest of the year), one new-ish tandem trailer and an old trailer, a fertelizer spreader and a reversible plough. all the other mostly tillage gear is owned with a couple of local farmers, there are a couple of big trailed harrows, ring roller, rotovator, seed drill, big fertilzer spreader and combine harvestor. everyone paid the same share 1st day to buy the kit and they all pay the same share on servicing, if soemthing breaks with you are using it you pay for it and he they all have thier own tractors so the only diesel sharing is for the combine. The machines are preety much used non stop during the sowing season and they are big enough to cover big areas in a short time.

delaval

grazeaway wrote: »

id say it cos some lad will always taking the piss. If you can all agree on teh machines use and everyone is usign it for roughly the same amount of time then it'll work as long as there is enough flexibility that its not used at the excat time.

The in-law's are from the contient and the 1st time i was there i was like a child at christmas looking at all the gear on their farm (they have tillage and cattle) however i did find it a bit odd that they had so much gear. Most of it is in a machaiery ring but is stored at thier place as they have single big shed to store it. The gear for their own farm include a loader, various loader attachements, 2 4wd tractors (one is only really needed for the sowing season so is hired out for the rest of the year), one new-ish tandem trailer and an old trailer, a fertelizer spreader and a reversible plough. all the other mostly tillage gear is owned with a couple of local farmers, there are a couple of big trailed harrows, ring roller, rotovator, seed drill, big fertilzer spreader and combine harvestor. everyone paid the same share 1st day to buy the kit and they all pay the same share on servicing, if soemthing breaks with you are using it you pay for it and he they all have thier own tractors so the only diesel sharing is for the combine. The machines are preety much used non stop during the sowing season and they are big enough to cover big areas in a short time.

Woud they all be similar in the amount of ground to be covered?

delaval

We get a contractor for milking, hedges, bale/wrapping, dung spreader, grass seeding, 30% of slurry, all slurry agitating and punping (slats to lagoon). We would also get someone in for repairs and maintance except fencing whice we do ourselves. We gat a contractor to feed on one farm really good value, get it done for 2 mths payments on a tractor and loader that would be idle for the rest of the year.

We feed, spray, fertiliser, mow, transport all bales (except heifer farm) and all cattle transport

We changed our silage system to wagon 3 yers ago on costs grounds. A huge added bonus was the longer silage, slower operation but we now can cut smaller amounts at a time. We mow and do pit work contractor rakes and hauls to pit. We have cut our silage costs by 40% inc. our time and only takes one man.

On fert we do ourselves as contractors are not always ready when you need them. It's too expensive to allow someone else do it and they leave gaps open. We spread once a month or so, get bulk tipped in shed and bang away.

We have 1 tractor, 1 loader, slurry tanker, mixer for lagoon, bale trailer, fert spreader, sprayer, 2 jeeps and cattle boxes, quad and sprayer, scrambler, roller and a 30' cattle trailer. We would clock about 1200 hrs each on loader and tractor. We try to keep things changed as from a mechanical repair point we might as well be looking into a field of thistled as fixing yokes.

reilig

I don't think we get contractors to do a lot in comparison to others. I'm guessing that it's because our land is fragmented as well as being very succeptable to the weather. So work is done at short notice or in small amounts at a time - both scenarios aren't too welcome by contractors. We agitate and spread our own slurry. We have our own hedgecutter. We cut ted, and rake silage/hay. BIL bales our silage and we have our own wrapper. We min till with chain harrow for reseeding, spread our own fertilizer and seed. Really the only other thing that we have a contractor in for is with a track machine for drainage or reclaimation. I suppose we are able to do a lot of work ourselves because we are operating on a very small scale in comparison to some of ye with just over 200 acres under us. We do have to contract in a tractor driver for about 20 days per year which is either a nephew during his holidays or a neighbour. This is for slurry or silage only.

Going forward...

Have gathered up most bits of machinery needed over the years, do bales, slurry, resseding on top of the normal jobs. Still get in a contractor for umbilical, raking, hedgecuttng, digger work and from time to time to help at bales, a few extra trailers for long draws etc. A fill of diesel doesn't last long but can get a good amount of work done with it too. The key is to try and avoid big bills by maintenance and buying well at the start. Need a gra for it too.

epfff

I am part-time so I contract out all except feeding and most haulage as I count them too important After that I would spread half the fertilizer and do most of the topping because I would be only doing small bits most weeks
slurry, silage pit and bales. Reseading (bar rolling although I use contractors roller) are all contracted out
I used to have 1 good contractor that got complacent
I now have 2 good competitive contractors that I don't over squeeze On price but understand now means when I hang up the phone if I don't. Hear a tractor flaking it over the road towards me i am back on the phone to the other guy
on another note when do ye pay contractors
I pay both at Xmas there idea not mine both claim it suits them for repayments
mate pays contractor in May for 12 months

delaval

epfff wrote: »

I am part-time so I contract out all except feeding and most haulage as I count them too important After that I would spread half the fertilizer and do most of the topping because I would be only doing small bits most weeks
slurry, silage pit and bales. Reseading (bar rolling although I use contractors roller) are all contracted out
I used to have 1 good contractor that got complacent
I now have 2 good competitive contractors that I don't over squeeze On price but understand now means when I hang up the phone if I don't. Hear a tractor flaking it over the road towards me i am back on the phone to the other guy
on another note when do ye pay contractors
I pay both at Xmas there idea not mine both claim it suits them for repayments
mate pays contractor in May for 12 months

I pay as each job is done

Mulumpy

Main contractor gets paid three times a year everyone else going out the gate.

caseman

Part time here do all work myself apart from mowing and hedge cutting

grazeaway

delaval wrote: »

Woud they all be similar in the amount of ground to be covered?

yes and no,

the in-laws have the most ground while the other are around the same size opertaions. one farmer passed away a few years ago and his wife has the farm but she is not really able to do as much drving work as her hubby did, so she maintains her share of the equipment but hires the other lads to drive her tractor, the machiens are paid for at this stage so it would make no sense for her to sell her stake and pay a contractor to do the whole lot. I'd say when they start looking to maybe sell or trade up some of the gear that might change

A very common thing on the contient is that the client pays for diesel, mosh machines come full and are expected to leave full so many of the contractor charages are less the cost of diesel

grazeaway

epfff wrote: »

I am part-time so I contract out all except feeding and most haulage as I count them too important After that I would spread half the fertilizer and do most of the topping because I would be only doing small bits most weeks
slurry, silage pit and bales. Reseading (bar rolling although I use contractors roller) are all contracted out
I used to have 1 good contractor that got complacent
I now have 2 good competitive contractors that I don't over squeeze On price but understand now means when I hang up the phone if I don't. Hear a tractor flaking it over the road towards me i am back on the phone to the other guy
on another note when do ye pay contractors
I pay both at Xmas there idea not mine both claim it suits them for repayments
mate pays contractor in May for 12 months

it depends on the contractor,

once off lad gets paid that day
The other lads call once a year as they might be here a few times over the year

Dozer1

I get contractor to do all baling, wrapping, slurry, spraying and hedge cutting.
apart from that I do all mowing, topping, fertiliser and drawing.

As a part time farmer his bill is a big expense every year but realistically how long would it take me to do the work he's doing with 150hp with my 70hp tractor.

I'd love to get a small tank and spread slurry when suited but can't get the figures to add up. definitely buying a sprayer this year though as need to attack the rushes as often as possible

lakill Farm

new entrant and part time and my contractor is down to

Mix slurry
Cut, Bale and wrap
Hedge cutting.

I carry out all the rest myself .

I pay my contractor normally the end of the month he does the work in . ie if he does the work on 6th he gets paid 30th. He does the work 25th he gets paid 30th.

I dont look for discount, but always look for the price before they pull in. I dont call, i text him and say - "knock field x tomorrow are lunch and bale following day" ill get a reply saying baler will be with you at x time .

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

I wonder why machinery rings never took off here, maybe it's because the fuppin weather is so bad:(

I think it's as much to do with TIME as cost. Even if machines are shared, you still have to find the time to be able to use them. Not easy get to everything when you working fulltime/farming part time and still hope to have a bit of a life outside of farming. Hello Mr. Contractor!

Muckit

We feed all our own cattle (sheargrab for pit/spike for bales) so that's 6months of jobs out of the way :pac:
Fertiliser, topping, spraying and drawing in bales I do myself.
Get contractor for most other things like slurry and making silage. I would love if contractors around here offered a service to draw in and stack bales as I find it a pain in the h*le.

Muckit

grazeaway wrote: »

A very common thing on the contient is that the client pays for diesel, mosh machines come full and are expected to leave full so many of the contractor charages are less the cost of diesel

I wonder will it go that way here, what with the whole buying your own wrap lark that some contractors insist on?

jp6470

We sort are the contractor,not a proper one,with names on the machines or nothing.but just always end up doing neighbours roundbaling,hedges,ploughing.
but when were busy with our own just say no. Have all the tools,not all fancy but all kept well,make it last years.
nothing comes in our yard now bar a combine,but that's the way we like it and when weathers ready were ready.,because livestock aside,all crops and haylage etc is made to be sold.

nashmach

Muckit wrote: »

I wonder will it go that way here, what with the whole buying your own wrap lark that some contractors insist on?

With these new fancy tractors, one drop of water or dirt would soon end that!

yellow50HX

nashmach wrote: »

With these new fancy tractors, one drop of water or dirt would soon end that!

Well they don't have coloured diesel on the continent so it's usually better quality then here.

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

I wonder will it go that way here, what with the whole buying your own wrap lark that some contractors insist on?

Some contractors insist on?

I don't think any contractor around here has supplied wrap in 15 years. They were going broke trying to carry the credit.

Muckit

freedominacup wrote: »

Some contractors insist on?

I don't think any contractor around here has supplied wrap in 15 years. They were going broke trying to carry the credit.

Just par for the course. A silage pit crew have to hold the entire costs until they get paid which would be significantly more than a bale silage outfit even taking wrap into consideration. As I said before holding half rolls of wrap over from one year to the next is an added inconvenience and additional cost for the farmer. The cost of wrap alone shouldn't put a good contractor out of business.

Just out of curiosity, if you had two equally good bale silage contractors in your area and one supplied wrap, the other one didn't and they both averaged out the same value wise, which would you go for?

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you had two equally good bale silage contractors in your area and one supplied wrap, the other one didn't and they both averaged out the same value wise, which would you go for?

probably the fellow that doesnt supply wrap, as I like to keep my bills with individuals as small as possible. lunacy for a contractor to be supplying wrap. Say guy makes 10k bales, he has €30k out on bale wrap that he doesnt make Jack ****e out of

moy83

Muckit wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you had two equally good bale silage contractors in your area and one supplied wrap, the other one didn't and they both averaged out the same value wise, which would you go for?

I would prefer to supply my own wrap and know that its something the contractor wont skimp on when he is not paying for it himself .

yellow50HX

supply our own wrap and have doen so for years, most contractors round here do not supply it.

one of my friends does about 600-800 bales a year and has bought his own gear over the years, he usually bought enough wrap for the season but was pricing around and actually bought a couple of pallets of wrap from the north a few years ago has it stored in his shed. that shipment has lasted him a few years and they averaged out at around €50/roll, i was paying over €90 for a roll this year. If you have the usage and the storgae and most imporatantly the means i reckon buying in bulk for a few years can save you lot on these.

Gettign a pallet of it delivered and having soem where safe to store it might be an option for the future as this stuff will only get more expensive, i could use up to a dozen rolls in a year (not a lot compatrd to some lads but thats over a grand in plastic. how many roll are usually in a pallet?

reilig

yellow50HX wrote: »

supply our own wrap and have doen so for years, most contractors round here do not supply it.

one of my friends does about 600-800 bales a year and has bought his own gear over the years, he usually bought enough wrap for the season but was pricing around and actually bought a couple of pallets of wrap from the north a few years ago has it stored in his shed. that shipment has lasted him a few years and they averaged out at around €50/roll, i was paying over €90 for a roll this year. If you have the usage and the storgae and most imporatantly the means i reckon buying in bulk for a few years can save you lot on these.

Gettign a pallet of it delivered and having soem where safe to store it might be an option for the future as this stuff will only get more expensive, i could use up to a dozen rolls in a year (not a lot compatrd to some lads but thats over a grand in plastic. how many roll are usually in a pallet?

24 rolls on a pallet.

We find that wrap doesn't store well. The centres of the rolls tend to lose their shape and the rolls aren't perfectly round which affects how they go through the prestretch. it's not that you can't use them, but you can't prestretch them prioperly and you end up using far more per bale and negate any saving made on cheap wrap. It's ok to keep rolls over for 1 year, but beyond that we find that they start to warp because the wrap is rolled onto the roll under pressure. Rolls with cardboard centres are a pure disaster and i wouldn't recommend keeping them over the winter at all it you can help it.

yellow50HX

reilig wrote: »

24 rolls on a pallet.

We find that wrap doesn't store well. The centres of the rolls tend to lose their shape and the rolls aren't perfectly round which affects how they go through the prestretch. it's not that you can't use them, but you can't prestretch them prioperly and you end up using far more per bale and negate any saving made on cheap wrap. It's ok to keep rolls over for 1 year, but beyond that we find that they start to warp because the wrap is rolled onto the roll under pressure. Rolls with cardboard centres are a pure disaster and i wouldn't recommend keeping them over the winter at all it you can help it.

yeah have seen a few of those with carboard inners, i always try to use the plastic inners and then re use them for insulation on fence posts, very handy in corners or junctions between paddocks. usually have a bit left over so use that up 1st the following year. actually found one full and one half used roll in behind stuff in the work shop this year we reckon it was 2 maybe 3 years old, on the plastic inners so stuck them on 1st ran anyway perfectly checked the bales over the weekend and still perfect. i always put them back into their box and tape it up afterwards.

reilig

yellow50HX wrote: »

yeah have seen a few of those with carboard inners, i always try to use the plastic inners and then re use them for insulation on fence posts, very handy in corners or junctions between paddocks. usually have a bit left over so use that up 1st the following year. actually found one full and one half used roll in behind stuff in the work shop this year we reckon it was 2 maybe 3 years old, on the plastic inners so stuck them on 1st ran anyway perfectly checked the bales over the weekend and still perfect. i always put them back into their box and tape it up afterwards.

Even the plastic centres warp. As I said, it's not that you can't use them, its just that they won't allow the plastic to go through the prestretch rollers proper;y and you'll end up not stretching the plastic properly and using more wrap per bale. It's a hidden cost!