Powertap or not??

Smalltom

I have the option to purchase a Cycleops Powertap Pro G2 alloy wheelset (1950g) at a reasonable price and am wondering what folks think? I could stretch to the same wheel with the G3 hub(100g lighter) in time i guess. I am at a crossroads as to what to do. I train alot on my own and turbo a a bit too. I have a tt bike and race bike(both put away during the winter) with the same BB and my winter bike is completely different setup so crank based systems seem to be out. I guess the question is-am I going down the right route even thinking about this system. Part of me is saying treat yourself and justifies it and the other part of me says-you're too old(37) to be bothering with this and you will regret it. There are so many power meter options out there and I dont know what to do. Ive read the reviews and plusses and minuses for all and none are perfect. Any advice? My budget is limited by the way so SRM/quarq are non runners! Thanks in advance.

lennymc

power training is great if you can understand the data coming back. if you cant, get a coach who can. IMHO

dquirke1

Go for it!!! They're great to quantify indoor rides and pacing for TTs.
As Lenny said, read up on understanding the numbers and putting them to use, I found 'Training and Racing with a Power Meter' to be pretty good, but theres plenty online as well...

Lumen

They're great for the turbo.

fat bloke

They're brilliant. Go for it.

colm_gti

Training with power is 100% the way forward!

tunney

colm_gti wrote: »

Training with power is 100% the way forward!

A lot of quality issues with power taps.

Smalltom

Thanks all-looks like I'm going with the power2max on the advice of alot of people who have said powertap is restrictive with regards to what you can do(no races) with the wheel. A shop guy who would be out of pocket if I bought power2max also recommended power2max so trigger finger getting itchy now.......

fat bloke

Actually with regard to the power2max, great looking product but maybe my age is catching up to me because it must rank as one of the most bewildering websites I've ever tried to purchase from. Several times I departed their www with still no clear idea of which one was right for me, which one would fit my bike, what actually did or did not come with it, and whether or not I would need to buy something else as well in order to actually get a complete and functioning crank set.

As I say, call me thick fat bloke if you will but I think I would have bought one of the website had been set up to sell me one.

lennymc

fat bloke wrote: »

Actually with regard to the power2max, great looking product but maybe my age is catching up to me because it must rank as one of the most bewildering websites I've ever tried to purchase from. Several times I departed their www with still no clear idea of which one was right for me, which one would fit my bike, what actually did or did not come with it, and whether or not I would need to buy something else as well in order to actually get a complete and functioning crank set.

As I say, call me thick fat bloke if you will but I think I would have bought one of the website had been set up to sell me one.

Ditto.

As for not racing with a power tap - I race with mine quite a bit as well as training. About 10k km with no problems. Crank power meter means you can't switch between race bike and training bike very easily (if you have another bike).

1750W

fat bloke wrote: »

Actually with regard to the power2max, great looking product but maybe my age is catching up to me because it must rank as one of the most bewildering websites I've ever tried to purchase from. Several times I departed their www with still no clear idea of which one was right for me, which one would fit my bike, what actually did or did not come with it, and whether or not I would need to buy something else as well in order to actually get a complete and functioning crank set.

As I say, call me thick fat bloke if you will but I think I would have bought one of the website had been set up to sell me one.

Have to agree with you it's hard to decipher what u need to buy to have a complete unit. I bought 2 a 175 and 172.5 and love them. I'd also opt for the q rings as opposed to o rings.

fat bloke

1750W wrote: »

Have to agree with you it's hard to decipher what u need to buy to have a complete unit. I bought 2 a 175 and 172.5 and love them. I'd also opt for the q rings as opposed to o rings.

Here man, would you mind explaining what you got? What you bought exactly and what arrived in the post and what was needed to get it working etc?

-My wife has been using an older wired powertap for a year or so now and is eyeing up an alternative and would certainly consider a power2max if we could only decipher the buying process :rolleyes:

Smalltom

Ditto with fat bloke-I'm an idiot with this website....I think it was designed with the sole purpose of confusing me! What exactly comes in that bloody box? Power2max have recommended I get the rotor 3d jobbie which will fit my tt bike straight away and a rotor bb1 which will make it race bike compatible. €49 for the bb1 off p2m and €30 in cyclesuperstore-I know where I'll be going. Lbs has my winter bike now to see if it can take an FSA bb or rotor bb1 and three bikes n hopefully 1 p2m!

1750W

fat bloke wrote: »

Here man, would you mind explaining what you got? What you bought exactly and what arrived in the post and what was needed to get it working etc?

-My wife has been using an older wired powertap for a year or so now and is eyeing up an alternative and would certainly consider a power2max if we could only decipher the buying process :rolleyes:

Does bike have a standard BSA bottom bracket?

Nwm2

lennymc wrote: »

power training is great if you can understand the data coming back. if you cant, get a coach who can. IMHO

I've read similar responses several times, but think it is a BS answer. If you can't 'understand' the data coming back from a Powertap you couldn't have gotten onto Boards to ask the question in the first place.

Nwm2

lennymc wrote: »

Ditto.

As for not racing with a power tap - I race with mine quite a bit as well as training. About 10k km with no problems. Crank power meter means you can't switch between race bike and training bike very easily (if you have another bike).

For TTs and training I find they are great.

For road races, I find they are much less useful there and then.

1750W

Nwm2 wrote: »

I've read similar responses several times, but think it is a BS answer. If you can't 'understand' the data coming back from a Powertap you couldn't have gotten onto Boards to ask the question in the first place.

Depends on what your understanding of understanding is.

colm_gti

Personally, and this is just my own opinion, I think if you can get your head around the concepts in that book 'training and racing with a power meter' and know how to feed your data back into your training plan then there probably isn't much need for a coach, though in saying that I've never worked with a coach, mostly because I feel I still have room for improvement under my own steam.

The benefits I can see with having a coach is that you don't have to think a whole lot about your training plan, you just do what the coach says, and you're probably more inclined to not skip a work out because you've someone to answer to. But if you're driven enough then you're probably not likely to skip a workout anyway...

As for using power purely as a training tool, that was my plan when shopping for a PM, and I was happy to go with a powertap, that was until I got a good deal on a P2M and am so glad now that I did having learned a bit more about them. If you're unlikely to use a powertap in races, you'll miss out on a lot of quality data you'd record during them with regard to recording your TSS and and adding to your PMC, and you're more likely to hit PB 15s/30s/60s/etc power in a race than you would in a test spin which is handy for your power profile and fatigue profile. I probably would have raced on a powertap anyway, don't really care too much about a few hundred grams on my bike, but if you're bothered by this stuff enough to not use it racing then definitely go for a crank system.

I don't really pay much heed to my power during a race, I'm not going to ride at my threshold and watch bunch ride away from me, I'll dig as hard as I can to stay in the break/bunch and race to feel more than numbers. Not yet done a TT with a PM.

I definitely am feeling the benefits of training with power already though, having hard evidence of my weaknesses and strengths in front of me on a computer screen has allowed me to come up with a far more targetted and structured training plan, and coming from a science/statistics background, the numbers and feedback drive me to do the workouts.

colm_gti

Also, if you're only using garmin or strava to analyse your power data you're wasting your time, WKO+, training peaks or goldencheetah are a necessity!

Nwm2

colm_gti wrote: »

Also, if you're only using garmin or strava to analyse your power data you're wasting your time, WKO+, training peaks or goldencheetah are a necessity!

Absolute nonsense.

Power meters are a waste of time unless you use one of those three? Holy God...

colm_gti

Nwm2 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.

Power meters are a waste of time unless you use one of those three? Holy God...

One of those three, or a similar program with better data analysis options than strava or garmin connect...

Nwm2

colm_gti wrote: »

Personally, and this is just my own opinion, I think if you can get your head around the concepts in that book 'training and racing with a power meter' and know how to feed your data back into your training plan then there probably isn't much need for a coach, though in saying that I've never worked with a coach, mostly because I feel I still have room for improvement under my own steam.

I think it is fashionable to say that the TARWAPM book is a must-read to make good use out of your PM.

In my opinion it is over-complicating things unnecessarily. Do you really need to understand CTL/ATL to train with a PM? Do those terms really have a physiological reality to them anyway?

Here we go:

1. Buy a PM
2. Do an FTP test
3. Start using it as part of a good training plan, with intervals based on %FTP
4. Retest FTP semi-regularly to adjust your target numbers as you get stronger

There, you've just started training with power, and started getting good benefits from it. Just one way, not the only way. But no PhD needed... (though funnily enough, I am a data analysis guy by profession & education, just hate seeing people not realise how easy training with power is)

1750W

Nwm2 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.

Power meters are a waste of time unless you use one of those three? Holy God...

Have you compared the usability and functionality of strava and garmin connect and compared them to the functionality offered by wko and golden cheetah.

Strava only introduced power curve and fitness/freshness profiling in the last few months. It's based on strava score algorithm which is different to more recognised algorithms

colm_gti

Nwm2 wrote: »

Here we go:

1. Buy a PM
2. Do an FTP test
3. Start using it as part of a good training plan, with intervals based on %FTP
4. Retest FTP semi-regularly to adjust your target numbers as you get stronger

But sure you could do that just as effectively with a HRM, and they're about €900 cheaper than the cheapest power meter....

Why pay so much for such a powerful training tool and not use it to it's full potential....seems a bit wasteful to me....

Lumen

You can train with power using a pencil and paper (and a power meter with display unit).

Or even based on memory, for that matter.

Nwm2

1750W wrote: »

Have you compared the usability and functionality of strava and garmin connect and compared them to the functionality offered by wko and golden cheetah.

Strava only introduced power curve and fitness/freshness profiling in the last few months. It's based on strava score algorithm which is different to more recognised algorithms

I use Garmin connect and GoldenCheetah. GoldenCheetah has significantly more functionality and if I am doing a somewhat sophisticated look at my data then I will use that.

But that's not the point. The claim was that training with power is a waste of time unless you use software of that power. That, as I said, is complete nonsense, not semantics.

Nwm2

colm_gti wrote: »

But sure you could do that just as effectively with a HRM, and they're about €900 cheaper than the cheapest power meter....

Why pay so much for such a powerful training tool and not use it to it's full potential....seems a bit wasteful to me....

Read up on the limitations of HRMs (particularly for short/high intensity intervals and due to day to day fluctuations) and come back to me if you want to pursue this argument.

colm_gti

Nwm2 wrote: »

I use Garmin connect and GoldenCheetah. GoldenCheetah has significantly more functionality and if I am doing a somewhat sophisticated look at my data then I will use that.

But that's not the point. The claim was that training with power is a waste of time unless you use software of that power. That, as I said, is complete nonsense, not semantics.

Ok, my claim that you are 'wasting your time' was probably a bit harsh, but I stand by the fact that I don't see the point in paying so much for such a powerful tool and not using it to its full capicty through more powerful data analysis software.

Nwm2

colm_gti wrote: »

Ok, my claim that you are 'wasting your time' was probably a bit harsh, but I stand by the fact that I don't see the point in paying so much for such a powerful tool and not using it to its full capicty through more powerful data analysis software.

The hours you spend analysing your data might be better spent on the bike pedalling hard (with the PM attached, of course).

colm_gti

Nwm2 wrote: »

Read up on the limitations of HRMs (particularly for short/high intensity intervals and due to day to day fluctuations) and come back to me if you want to pursue this argument.

I'm aware of the limitations of a HRM, that's why I bought a power meter....

colm_gti

Nwm2 wrote: »

The hours you spend analysing your data might be better spent on the bike pedalling hard (with the PM attached, of course).

It doesn't take very long to look at your power/fatigue profile and decide what you need to work on...

1750W

Nwm2 wrote: »

I use Garmin connect and GoldenCheetah. GoldenCheetah has significantly more functionality and if I am doing a somewhat sophisticated look at my data then I will use that.

But that's not the point. The claim was that training with power is a waste of time unless you use software of that power. That, as I said, is complete nonsense, not semantics.

Ok "waste of time" was perhaps a bad choice of words. However with making a significant investment in buying a PM it is prudent to use it to its maximal potential.

fat bloke

1750W wrote: »

Does bike have a standard BSA bottom bracket?

I'm sure at least one of them has:rolleyes: Are the p2max's all bb specific?

1750W

fat bloke wrote: »

I'm sure at least one of them has:rolleyes: Are the p2max's all bb specific?

No u get get BB to fit all bikes u just have to know what bb your bike will take as the diameter of the power2max crankshaft is bigger than shimano and SRAM for example

Lumen

FWIW I have a BSA BOR RR688 Power2Max and I think the design of the crankset/cups is a load of ****.

The electronic bits work though.

1750W

Lumen wrote: »

FWIW I have a BSA BOR RR688 Power2Max and I think the design of the crankset/cups is a load of ****.

The electronic bits work though.

I took a carbon campag record chain set off my tt bike that was spring loaded had spleens that met in the middle of the BB that is definitely worse. As Jim Royle would say Italian design my Ar*e

uphillonly

And in other power related news:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/08/bikes-and-tech/powertap-drops-power-meter-hub-price-by-510_297666

G3 hub reduced from US 1,299 to US 789. Huge 40% drop. Only good news.

Smalltom

Power2max arrived last week and am putting it together Wednesday evening. Looking forward to the results (or lack thereof). Thanks everyone and the two usual suspects who helped me lighten my wallet-no names will be mentioned. Mods please close thread.

1750W

Not guilty your Honour!

Smalltom

@1750W-guilty as hell is right. Once I get a similar admission outta Colm_gti I'll stop whinging ha ha.

colm_gti

Defamation! :P

Smalltom

@ colm_gti-burning ears have we.......