Medicine in Spain

Murt10

Probably been posted before, but a timely reminder for some.

I'm just back from a holiday in Spain. Various members of my family are on long term prescription medicines. We pay E144 per month to our local chemist (Boots) for this medication under the Drugs Payment Scheme

Before going to Spain, I went to my local GP and asked him for repeat prescriptions using the generic name of each tablet for the family.

Being a cautious type, and having seen numerous stories of people buying fake medicine online, I also asked him if there was a danger that I would be
palmed off with these. He assured me that once I was buying from a pharmacy, there should be no problem.

Armed with the generic prescription I went into a pharmacy in Spain and asked how much it would be to fill it. The assistant/pharmacist got out all the medicines and scanned them. E39.50.

I asked if I could buy 6 months worth together. No problem she said.

I was amazed at the size of the savings.

Looks like we may be having a weekend away in Spain in 6 months time effectively paid for by the Irish Pharmaceutical industry. (Warped logic, I know)

gerryk

So you saved >€600. Wow... that's just shocking.

snubbleste

And the Spanish taxpayer has subsidised your medication to the tune of €___ ?

Blue Crystal

snubbleste wrote: »

And the Spanish taxpayer has subsidised your medication to the tune of €___ ?

€0

mathepac

snubbleste wrote: »

And the Spanish taxpayer has subsidised your medication to the tune of €___ ?

But sure aren't we all in the same European boat now, open markets and all that good stuff?

Apart from which the Spanish tax-payer makes no contribution to the cost of medicines destined to be exported to Ireland.

Big pharma's bottom line and the pharmacists' in Ireland take a little hit though as medicines are priced differently for each national market. Well done OP.

daheff

Murt10 wrote: »

Before going to Spain, I went to my local GP and asked him for repeat prescriptions using the generic name of each tablet for the family.

how much are the generics in Ireland? My understanding of your post is that you dont get generics in Ireland?

R P McMurphy

daheff wrote: »

how much are the generics in Ireland? My understanding of your post is that you dont get generics in Ireland?

You can get generics in ireland but they cost multiples of what they do in other eu states

melekalikimaka

is there not a limit on what you can carry on planes?

snubbleste

Medication in Spanish pharmacies is subsided by the government. I'm not sure by how much.

Caliden

daheff wrote: »

how much are the generics in Ireland? My understanding of your post is that you dont get generics in Ireland?

I think the OP was trying to get the point across that we do get generics in Ireland but with a serious markup. A markup that can even differ from county to country WITHIN Ireland which was highlighted by some newspaper who went around buying different medications in different counties.

corkonion

My monthly meds only cost €42 here in Ireland, but I purchase the same novartis products (not generic) over the counter in spain without prescription (which is another €50 doctor visit in Ireland) for €8.90
I suppose rather than post this in bargain alerts I should put it in the rip off Ireland thread

L1011

Caliden wrote: »

I think the OP was trying to get the point across that we do get generics in Ireland but with a serious markup. A markup that can even differ from county to country WITHIN Ireland which was highlighted by some newspaper who went around buying different medications in different counties.

Price variation in Ireland is because pharmacies are private businesses and can charge what they want. You'll find different prices in every pharmacy in a town usually. If they all charged the same, people would be screaming of a cartel.

The much higher price, however, is down to the fact that the wholesale cost of drugs here is many times higher than the retail price in many other countries. This is down to a rake of reasons ranging from extremely high fees to licence a drug in Ireland through to an overly cosy deal between the government and the drug manufacturers.

In that 42 vs 8.90 price comparison there, even a pharmacist charging the highest fees I've ever seen (50% retail markup and a €7 fee) would result in an Irish wholesale price of about €23 - meaning the pharmacy is buying the drugs for over twice the price that the Spanish pharmacy can *sell* them at. Spanish pharmacy will be making a decent profit on it too.

former legend

MYOB wrote: »

Price variation in Ireland is because pharmacies are private businesses and can charge what they want. You'll find different prices in every pharmacy in a town usually. If they all charged the same, people would be screaming of a cartel.

Medicines purchased under the Drugs Payment Scheme DO cost the same in every pharmacy (as the state pays the cost once the monthly threshold is breached).

The HSE sets the price; they are all available to view here: http://www.sspcrs.ie/druglist/search.jsp

The problem is not the mark-up charged by the pharmacist (there is no longer any mark-up) but the wholesale price that is set by the HSE, which is multiples of what it should be for generics.
e.g. Lipitor 40 mg tablets, 28 pack = €32.38
Generic Atorvastatin 40 mg tablets, 28 pack = €30.48
That's lunacy.

ArseBurger

Blue Crystal wrote: »

€0

Nope. Spanish pharmaceuticals are subsidised.

This is why the Spanish government is pissed off with people retiring to Spain. They haven't contributed to the social welfare system and then come in to put strain on the medical system in later life.

L1011

former legend wrote: »

Medicines purchased under the Drugs Payment Scheme DO cost the same in every pharmacy (as the state pays the cost once the monthly threshold is breached).

The HSE sets the price; they are all available to view here: http://www.sspcrs.ie/druglist/search.jsp

The problem is not the mark-up charged by the pharmacist (there is no longer any mark-up) but the wholesale price that is set by the HSE, which is multiples of what it should be for generics.
e.g. Lipitor 40 mg tablets, 28 pack = €32.38
Generic Atorvastatin 40 mg tablets, 28 pack = €30.48
That's lunacy.

A pharmacist is free to charge whatever markup they want up until the point they reach €144/month per patient/family. Huge number of pharmacies charge significantly more than the reimbursement price below €144 - that is how there is actually price variance.

falabo

ArseBurger wrote: »

Nope. Spanish pharmaceuticals are subsidised.

This is why the Spanish government is pissed off with people retiring to Spain. They haven't contributed to the social welfare system and then come in to put strain on the medical system in later life.

do they take into account the money retired foreigners spend in Spain ? I'm sure they would make it up on VAT alone over the course of the year!

hfallada

ArseBurger wrote: »

Nope. Spanish pharmaceuticals are subsidised.

This is why the Spanish government is pissed off with people retiring to Spain. They haven't contributed to the social welfare system and then come in to put strain on the medical system in later life.

I can't imagine that is happening. They are pissed that some one is getting a few euros off some medicine. But yet they are bringing their pension and spending it in the spain. Generating thousands in tax every year.

Irish consumers complain how expensive everything is in Ireland. But yet near shop around for better prices or afraid to ask for a better price. I always ask for generics of anything over the counter. But when I'm in the uk I buy a ton of anti histimes. About 24p for 12 tablets in sainsbury or €5 for 7 tablets in ireland

mathepac

OK I accept that my post above is inaccurate and the Spanish Government subsidises medications, I found this info when trawling the web :

http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-spain-prescriptions-medications

Of particular interest to me is my pet hate with Irish pharmacists. My doctor issues me with monthly prescriptions. The pharmaceutical companies sometimes package their products in quantities of 28. If they are delivered in multiples of 30 the pharmacists open the packages and reduce the contents to multiples of 28. This has two principal effects

• I need to get 13 rather than 12 prescriptions filled per year
• Someone, often me. gets all the poxy off-cuts delivered in their prescription

Why is this stupid process necessary? The 28-day dispensing quantity was introduced in response to pressure by the NHS. Why do we have to suffer the costs and inconvenience of the rquirements of a health system of a foreign country?

In Spain, by contrast : "When medications are issued ... they are in boxes with a set number of tablets in each box. Pharmacists are not permitted to split the boxes, so you may end up with more medication than you actually need. "

L1011

Ask your gp to prescribe 30 rather than 28. If they already are, complain to the pharmacist that they are not following the.script

IrishHomer

MYOB wrote: »

Ask your gp to prescribe 30 rather than 28. If they already are, complain to the pharmacist that they are not following the.script

Another quick ditto about Irish Pharmasists. About ten years ago Boots attempted to open a store in Tullamore Co. Offaly and the cartel of local Pharmacies lobbied against it and they won out.

Celtic Galician

ArseBurger wrote: »

Nope. Spanish pharmaceuticals are subsidised.

This is why the Spanish government is pissed off with people retiring to Spain. They haven't contributed to the social welfare system and then come in to put strain on the medical system in later life.

Pharmaceuticals are only subsidised if you produce a prescription from a Spanish G.P.

The amount paid varies depending on the region you are. In most of the regions retired people pay just €1 per prescription or a percentage of the price up to €8 month. The rest of the population who pay taxes to the Social Security pay about 50% of the price.

If you are not a Spanish tax payer or retired, you must pay 100% of the price. I myself, as Irish resident have to pay the whole price, but I bring to Ireland all the medicines I can when I go on holidays.

L1011

IrishHomer wrote: »

Another quick ditto about Irish Pharmasists. About ten years ago Boots attempted to open a store in Tullamore Co. Offaly and the cartel of local Pharmacies lobbied against it and they won out.

Sector is deregulated now though.

Deep Thought

You would be surprised how much the Pharmacy sell generics for compared to the cost from the Distributor

snubbleste

Deep Thought wrote: »

You would be surprised how much the Pharmacy sell generics for compared to the cost from the Distributor

xxx%

Northern Monkey

former legend wrote: »

The HSE sets the price; they are all available to view here: http://www.sspcrs.ie/druglist/search.jsp

That's quite interesting. The HSE pays a pharmacist twice the amount for my prescription that I can buy it for in the North.:eek:

sandin

Ah, the old medicine in spain story.

Spanish system - consumer pays 40% of drug cost, gov pays 60%. Applies to all drugs.

Irish system, consumer with medical card oays 1.50 per perscription, non medical card pays full price but never more than whatever the monthly limit is (about €130?)

Spain wins if you are nitca medical card holder needing mid price or liw price drugs, but on higher price drugs or if you have a small income, you don't want to be on the Spanish system! !!

unkel

Bought some generic stuff like aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. from a big UK web pharmacy in bulk. Cost €45. The same stuff from a boots shop here would have been about €500...

whiteandlight

sandin wrote: »

Ah, the old medicine in spain story.

Spanish system - consumer pays 40% of drug cost, gov pays 60%. Applies to all drugs.

Irish system, consumer with medical card oays 1.50 per perscription, non medical card pays full price but never more than whatever the monthly limit is (about €130?)

Spain wins if you are nitca medical card holder needing mid price or liw price drugs, but on higher price drugs or if you have a small income, you don't want to be on the Spanish system! !!

depends on the particular drugs alright. I was on a cocktail for the last year to get my asthma under control. Because the inhalers were over 60e a pop in both places (no generic out yet) I was as well to stick with Ireland. Now those I've come of that inhaler I can get everything else for a pittance in spain and save myself a fortune.

Karl Stein

unkel wrote: »

Bought some generic stuff like aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. from a big UK web pharmacy in bulk. Cost €45. The same stuff from a boots shop here would have been about €500...

Did they deliver to ROI?

Miike

unkel wrote: »

Bought some generic stuff like aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. from a big UK web pharmacy in bulk. Cost €45. The same stuff from a boots shop here would have been about €500...

I bought 500 ibuprofen for €6 online the other day. SHOCKING the price I'd pay in somewhere like boots. A family member of mine was recently in Canada and bought the exact same ibuprofen for $3,60. We got robbed in this country!

sandin

Miike wrote: »

I bought 500 ibuprofen for €6 online the other day. SHOCKING the price I'd pay in somewhere like boots. A family member of mine was recently in Canada and bought the exact same ibuprofen for $3,60. We got robbed in this country!

Unfortunately every drug that is sold here has to get approval - even each separate generic version. The cost of approval is high, so unless it will be a big seller the companies won't apply for authorisation.
Also there are stupid restrictions on size of packet on items such as aspirin & ibuprofen and that each packet must have info pertaining to Irish consumers.

If the medicine board had sense they would allow for anything approved in the UK to be allowed sale here and act as an overseer (or possibly have a European wide approval system) - this would create a single medical market between UK & Ireland (or Europe) and bring the cost of bringing the lower priced medicines to market down substantially.

EoghanIRL

sandin wrote: »

Ah, the old medicine in spain story.

Spanish system - consumer pays 40% of drug cost, gov pays 60%. Applies to all drugs.

Irish system, consumer with medical card oays 1.50 per perscription, non medical card pays full price but never more than whatever the monthly limit is (about €130?)

Spain wins if you are nitca medical card holder needing mid price or liw price drugs, but on higher price drugs or if you have a small income, you don't want to be on the Spanish system! !!

Medicine card should be fcukin abolished. 1.50 per subscription is ridiculous. They should have to pay Just like everyone else!

Oscar_Drai

Murt10 wrote: »

Probably been posted before, but a timely reminder for some.

I'm just back from a holiday in Spain. Various members of my family are on long term prescription medicines. We pay E144 per month to our local chemist (Boots) for this medication under the Drugs Payment Scheme

Before going to Spain, I went to my local GP and asked him for repeat prescriptions using the generic name of each tablet for the family.

Being a cautious type, and having seen numerous stories of people buying fake medicine online, I also asked him if there was a danger that I would be
palmed off with these. He assured me that once I was buying from a pharmacy, there should be no problem.

Armed with the generic prescription I went into a pharmacy in Spain and asked how much it would be to fill it. The assistant/pharmacist got out all the medicines and scanned them. E39.50.

I asked if I could buy 6 months worth together. No problem she said.

I was amazed at the size of the savings.

Looks like we may be having a weekend away in Spain in 6 months time effectively paid for by the Irish Pharmaceutical industry. (Warped logic, I know)

Looks like you have been ripped off for years in Ireland and just because you don't in Spain, you think you are getting a weekend away. More common sense please.

becost

snubbleste wrote: »

And the Spanish taxpayer has subsidised your medication to the tune of €___ ?

We're all European plus I'm sure there are plenty of Spanish over here claiming benefits.

former legend

unkel wrote: »

Bought some generic stuff like aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. from a big UK web pharmacy in bulk. Cost €45. The same stuff from a boots shop here would have been about €500...

Ordering medicines over the internet is illegal.

tatli_lokma

sandin wrote: »

Also there are stupid restrictions on size of packet on items such as aspirin & ibuprofen and that each packet must have info pertaining to Irish consumers.

I don't see a problem with restricting packet size - makes sense to me, as ibuprofen can be addictive. However I agree that pricing is very high and the smaller packets should be priced pro-rata based on quantity.

I often buy medicines in Turkey when we visit - usually much cheaper (not always but often).

L1011

tatli_lokma wrote: »

, as ibuprofen can be addictive.

Not to the best of my knowledge...

Ibuprofen is available in 48 packs OTC here. Nothing like the 200 tubs US supermarkets sell though

keithclancy

What is it with Irish peoples fascination and tablets anyway.

You'd want to be on your deathbed before a Dutch doctor would prescribe you anything.

I'd go to an Irish Doctor and they hand out prescriptions for stuff like sweeties.

e.g.
Go to a Dutch Doctor with headaches lack of sleep, feeling down.
Doctor says get more exercise, drink less coffee, drink more water and eat more vegetables.

Go to an Irish Doctor and they hand out prescriptions for Cipramil or Zyprexa (while taking their notes with a Zyprexa pen and notepad)

Saying that the generic stuff here is way cheaper, you can get a 48 pack of paracetamol for 99 cents in Etos, bizarrely they are manufactured by Clonmel healthcare.

Only time I bought a few boxes of stuff like Ibuprofen, Paracetamol, Carbon Capsules etc was going to Indonesia only because a Dutch lad I know said if you needed them in Indonesia you would be ripped off.

You always need a prescription in Germany/The Netherlands anyway.
You can't even buy Sudafed over the counter in Germany/NL as its controlled.

roozer

The op's post is flawed. He is comparing branded medicines he was getting in Ireland to generic medicines in Spain. Thats not like with like.
If he wanted to make a saving then why wasn't he always on generics in Ireland?



The problem is people don't shop around enough
This for example maybe the price in some pharmacies

former legend wrote: »

e.g. Lipitor 40 mg tablets, 28 pack = €32.38
Generic Atorvastatin 40 mg tablets, 28 pack = €30.48
That's lunacy.

but you can get atorvastatin 40mg in Tesco for €15.

I know there is not a big difference in price with some generic but with most there is, especially if you shop around properly.

shrapnel222

another good comparison on generics is cetrizine hydrochloride, basically hay fever tablets.

Non generic box of 7: 6 to 8 euros
generic box of 7: 40 cents :eek:

whiterebel

There was a programme on the BBC recently, about the crisis in Spain. One part, relevant to this discussion, was pharmacies in the Valencia region. The regional government subsidises medicines there, and at the moment owes €500 MILLION to the pharmacies, who are going out of business. The days of cheap subsidised drugs in Spain are coming to an end.

tatli_lokma

tatli_lokma wrote: »

as ibuprofen can be addictive.

MYOB wrote: »

Not to the best of my knowledge...

Ibuprofen is available in 48 packs OTC here. Nothing like the 200 tubs US supermarkets sell though

Sorry, my use of language there was misleading. I should have said emotionally addictive/dependancy can occur.

Ibuprofen being too readily available in large quantities to manage pain can result in over use of the drug, which itself can have serious side effects. Over self-prescribing pain killers is never a good idea.

http://www.addictionhope.com/ibuprofen

A normal OTC box of 24 ibuprofen should see most people through a reasonable amount of time for common ailments such as headaches/period pains/fever/flu etc. If you are going through large quantities then it is definitely something that needs to be monitored by a doctor. Only a doctor should be approving large quantities of ibuprofen use, and I personally don't see that the small packs being a problem.

But again, I do agree that a pack of 24 should be pro-rata priced so that the less you buy, the cheaper it is.

ArseBurger

falabo wrote: »

do they take into account the money retired foreigners spend in Spain ? I'm sure they would make it up on VAT alone over the course of the year!

It's the 40+ years of no contribution to the social welfare system that's the problem.

IMHO they should back charge to the country of origin.

ArseBurger

Celtic Galician wrote: »

Pharmaceuticals are only subsidised if you produce a prescription from a Spanish G.P.

Over the counter drugs are subsidised in Spain also. That's why they are cheaper than most other EU countries.

unkel

For all the people wondering what site I bought off: pharmacyfirst.co.uk

32 pack of Aspirin £0.28 incl. VAT

fizzoo12

I was in Portugal in early June, I was enquired about Zoton antacid tabs, they didn't stock them but offered me an alternative
generic one named Omeprezol Zentiva 20mg. I got 6 boxes of 56 capsules @E 3.90 a box, unbelievable price as my Zoton were 48 Euro for 28 here in Ireland. The only problem was that they didn't have fast relief tabs but still I am using these ever since and they work perfectly. I'll be doing more shopping later in the year .....

fizzoo12

I was in Portugal earlier this year and I bought Atorvastatin 40mg 28 pack for 4.80, it would make more sense if the EU had a pricing system throughout the EU, it'll never be tackled in this country otherwiswe .....

mbshrekito

snubbleste wrote: »

Medication in Spanish pharmacies is subsided by the government. I'm not sure by how much.

by zero %

whiterebel

mbshrekito wrote: »

by zero %

Wrong.

crazygeryy

former legend wrote: »

Ordering medicines over the internet is illegal.

are you sure about that?id like to know where you get your info from please?
i do it all the time.
and for those of you interested.pharmacyfirst.co.uk accept irish prescriptions online.i rang them and asked.

L1011

crazygeryy wrote: »

are you sure about that?id like to know where you get your info from please?
i do it all the time.
and for those of you interested.pharmacyfirst.co.uk accept irish prescriptions online.i rang them and asked.

Medicinal Products (Prescription and Control of Supply) Regulations, 1996

The online pharmacy doesn't care if they get their money, they're not in Ireland to be affected by it.

If the shipment is found by customs, it'll be destroyed and you'll get a nastygram from the IMB threatening prosecution. If its something actually interesting/abusable you most likely will be prosecuted.