Advice for those wishing to study psychology

Crann na Beatha

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Molecule

Just a few points from my own experience:
- Psychology at undergrad level is not what many people expect. There's a whole lot of statistics for one thing...and little in the way of clinical experience (none in fact, usually).
- If you think you might be interested in pursuing clinical work at a later date then it's best to start looking for part-time or volunteer work with charities/health organisations as early as possible in order to get experience. Similarly, take advantage of any 'research assistant' opportunities that might come up.
- The most useful skill you can develop is an ability to think critically. Accept nothing on face value. Look for both sides of the argument. Also, learn how to read journal articles i.e. how to get the information you're looking for quickly, and how to spot when authors are trying to misrepresent results or create something from nothing. Cast a particularly critical eye upon any study that was funded by a party with a financial interest in the outcome e.g. pharmaceutical companies.
- Rely on journal articles more than books as reference material. Books can be useful but including up-to-date journal articles will get you extra marks and ensure your writing is relevant.
- Choose research topics that are simple with a population that is easy to recruit. It's really tempting to try to do something 'big' but given the timeframe available at undergrad, you're better off saving the big ideas for postgrad research (if you go that route).
- Psychology people can be a little...obsessed. Most of my friends weren't involved in the area at all and I think it did a lot for my sanity. You do need a good degree of single-mindedness and determination if you want to go on to work in certain areas where there's a lot of competition but you'll be a much nicer and less stressed person if you keep up other hobbies and interests.
- Try and avoid group essays, but this probably goes for any course.

Good luck and have fun!

Valmont

I'm going to be a bollocks and say don't waste your time and money. If you wholeheartedly want to become a psychologist of some kind you have to factor in to your costs and time calculation that after your three or four year undergraduate degree you will only be on the very first expensive step of the ladder. Another important fact is that it is generally the government who employ psychologists of varying stripes and considering the financial troubles, recruitment is being squeezed and will probably be squeezed more.

If you just find the subject interesting, as many do, educate yourself or take some evening classes. You will save yourself a lot of money and particularly wall space for the piece of toilet paper they give you at the end.

I'm just playing the devils advocate but this is probably one of the biggest decisions you will ever make and the truth is that degrees just aren't worth much anymore. I think a degree in psychology suits a lot of people but it definitely doesn't a lot either.

theLEVI

What i would say is,
consider it very carefully, then if you are 100% sure you really want to study it then go for it.
If you love the subject then go for it, it will be easy for you then, but what you have to keep in mind is that some Universities would give you a lot of unnecessary material like statistics and more, in fact depending on what you are planning at the end of the degree, you might find some modules more useful and some others not useful at all so called fillers.

So the next question is, what do you want to get out of the psychology degree in the long run?

JuliusCaesar

theLEVI wrote: »

some Universities would give you a lot of unnecessary material like statistics

:eek:

How can anyone critically read or analyse a research study without a knowledge of stats?

theLEVI

@Caesar.
well not everyone wants to go into research...
and in Ireland if you haven't done higher maths then you probably won't be in university studying psychology since the entry points are pretty high, i'm not saying its impossible but i guess majority of people would have done statistics before.

@Phoenix.
If one wants to really fix a problem from the field of psychology then they should look at nlp not psychology,
but if you want to understand the problem then psychology is the way.
It's a fact.

JuliusCaesar

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

How can anyone critically read or analyse a research study without a knowledge of stats?

theLEVI wrote: »

@Caesar.
well not everyone wants to go into research...

If you want to go into psychology at any level, you have to be able to read and critically appraise the research.

theLEVI wrote: »

If one wants to really fix a problem from the field of psychology then they should look at nlp not psychology,

What does this mean?

theLEVI

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

If you want to go into psychology at any level, you have to be able to read and critically appraise the research.



What does this mean?

well Caesar, as i said in the pervious post in another thread, if you try it you will get what im saying, as long as you are bright enough of course, otherwise i can't see any point in any further conversation with you on any matter since you don't speak out of experience.

best of luck,
~~~Levi

Xander_82

I haven't read the comments above me. Here are what I would consider as very important if you're deciding to do psychology:

1. Make friends in your class. Network with lecturers. Attend events and any extra classes put on, any seminars, tutorials, etc. Attend everything.

2. Try to get experience as you are studying. Don't worry if it's not very specific, but something fairly related is good. Any work you can do with kids, old people, anyone with a disability is all good. Even a few hours here or there will help a lot.

3. Attend your classes. Don't skip classes thinking you'll make it up later. Go to everything.

4. Try your best to do most of the reading for each class. There is a lot to do, but psychology is mainly self taught from what you read. Lectures will just glance over it and recommend more reading. Do the reading!

5. Get good at statistics. It's a central theme of any psychology degree and is really important for your reading, particularly journal articles. You'll need to be really good at it for any thesis or dissertation you do also. It might seem boring, but it's important.

6. Talk to your lecturers. Don't annoy them with rubbish, but if there is a topic you are very interested in or an area you'd consider studying further in, talk to them about it. Ask where you can learn more, employment possibilities, research opportunites.

7. Enjoy it. It's very interesting. Understand you will not be qualified to work at anything when you finish. This degree is the first step on a ladder with many rungs. Be aware of it's limitations. Be aware also of the huge number of possible areas you can go on to study and work in if you persist.

Have fun.

ViveLaVie

theLEVI wrote: »

@Caesar.
well not everyone wants to go into research...
and in Ireland if you haven't done higher maths then you probably won't be in university studying psychology since the entry points are pretty high, i'm not saying its impossible but i guess majority of people would have done statistics before

It's certainly not. I know someone doing Applied Psychology who did Pass Maths in school.

sprinkle123

If you are a mature student ( 23 upwards) then I suggest you pursue a Degree in Counselling/ Psychotherapy / Addiction Counselling. This is what I did and i am in my 2nd year of a Degree and already I am on a Clinical Placement seeing clients. It is the most practical and fastest route to getting a career in the caring profession. I hope to be earning a living from this in about 2 more years. If you do a Psychology degree you will be 4 years studying and then you will need to get a masters So it could be 7 years before you start earning any money.
Just make sure the course you pick has all the criteria needed to join the IACP. ie clinical placement, supervision, personal therapy and theory.

Faith

Within Ireland and the UK, it's an extremely tough area to get work in, especially outside of Dublin in Ireland. Extremely tough. As others have said, a basic degree is just a stepping stone towards specialisation. If you're unlucky enough, like me, to be interested in clinical psychology, it's an incredibly long, frustrating, demeaning road where you're constantly getting knock backs and being told you're not good enough.

You need to have an interest in research, and be computer literate enough to follow instructions on how to do statistics. Doing them isn't the hard bit; figuring out what test to use is the hard bit!

You need to be intelligent, critical, resilient and determined.

There are many other routes into working with patients, as mentioned, but nothing other than psychology will make you a psychologist. A counsellor is not a counselling psychologist.

What you do honestly depends on your interests. If it's working with clients in a healthcare setting, psychology is a LONG road to achieve that goal, and other routes might be preferable like counselling, psychotherapy etc. If your interests lie with the understanding of human behaviour, then psychology is the one for you - once you bear in mind it'll be a long time before you can work with clients and get paid for it.

Crann na Beatha

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Faith

Phoenix wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your advice so far guys,if i do decide to go ahead with undertaking psychology i will do so in Canada.
I am also quite interested in forensic psychology

Oh well then you're flying already! Forensic is my primary area of interest, and I'm planning a move to Vancouver in the new year on the recommendation of my supervisor. The ultimate aim is to do my phd in clinical in the University of British Columbia because they have an emphasis on the forensic side of it.

Caonima

theLEVI wrote: »

and in Ireland if you haven't done higher maths then you probably won't be in university studying psychology since the entry points are pretty high

I did pass maths and got a B and still went to Trinity and did Psychology there. The statistics were hardcore, no doubt about it, but you can't study a social science without them. Luckily Trinity had some good stats lecturers.

I've recently started a second degree, this time in economics, and wouldn't you know it, here we go with the stats again.

But to the OP, I can say that as your go from year to year, the amount of classes go down, but the amount of reading you need to do goes up drastically. Read widely and try to enjoy the subject. Pick electives that interest you. The undergrad degree, as some people said, doesn't really prepare you for anything. You need to get a masters or preferably a PhD to actually work as a psychologist. And to get into the postgrad positions, sometimes you need some work experience, which can be notoriously difficult to find. That's why I went on and did a masters in journalism after finishing my degree - there just wasn't a big enough network to support the grads in psychology to help them move onto postgrad. Ireland is quite limited like this.

endacl

theLEVI wrote: »

some Universities would give you a lot of unnecessary material like statistic

That'd like studying an English degree that didn't include the modern novel. If an institution offered a statistics-free psychology degree, I'd be looking elsewhere...

:rolleyes:

PictureFrame

theLEVI wrote: »

@Caesar.
well not everyone wants to go into research...
and in Ireland if you haven't done higher maths then you probably won't be in university studying psychology since the entry points are pretty high, i'm not saying its impossible but i guess majority of people would have done statistics before.

Not true. I'm just going into my 2nd year of Psychology in Maynooth University and I studied OL Maths for the LC (B1) and so did the vast majority of my class, with the exception of 1 or 2! And I got 78% (1st Class Honours) in my Statistics exam at Christmas.

endacl

PictureFrame wrote: »

Not true. I'm just going into my 2nd year of Psychology in Maynooth University and I studied OL Maths for the LC (B1) and so did the vast majority of my class, with the exception of 1 or 2! And I got 78% (1st Class Honours) in my Statistics exam at Christmas.

Well done.

PictureFrame

Having just completed my 1st year of a Psychology Degree in Maynooth University my main piece of advice for someone wishing to pursue a Psych degree is to not anticipate you will be studying 'hardcore' topics such as Abnormal Psychology or Clinical/Mental Health etc. for your first or possibly 2nd year.

Year 1 is all about giving you a broad introduction to the specialism, and may include a bit of mundane research modules, which are essentially not that exciting, but essential all the same.

Also, get to like Mathematics, particularly Statistics. You don't have to be an A1 Honours Student in School to pass Psych Stats comfortably, once you listen attentively and practise your various calculations you'll do fine. I got an Ordinary B1 in my LC Maths and got a high 1:1 (78) in 1st year Statistics.

Be prepared to read a lot of extra material and never look at only one side of an argument, learn to critically analyse everything and have an open, unbiased opinion on what you learn about.

Lyra Fangs

My advice would be to avoid doing your degree in UL if you're interested in the biological/abnormal/mental health side of psychology. You'll spend most of your degree covering social psychology over and over again in various guises. I did my first abnormal module in my second semester of 4th year!!

cakeisgood

Valmont wrote: »

I'm going to be a bollocks and say don't waste your time and money. If you wholeheartedly want to become a psychologist of some kind you have to factor in to your costs and time calculation that after your three or four year undergraduate degree you will only be on the very first expensive step of the ladder. Another important fact is that it is generally the government who employ psychologists of varying stripes and considering the financial troubles, recruitment is being squeezed and will probably be squeezed more.

If you just find the subject interesting, as many do, educate yourself or take some evening classes. You will save yourself a lot of money and particularly wall space for the piece of toilet paper they give you at the end.

I'm just playing the devils advocate but this is probably one of the biggest decisions you will ever make and the truth is that degrees just aren't worth much anymore. I think a degree in psychology suits a lot of people but it definitely doesn't a lot either.

There is a lot of truth in this. You need a lot of money to go the college route. I did a 4 year degree with Psychology as my minor subject. It was a waste of time and counted for nothing as I would have had to do a 1-2 year conversion course after my 4 year degree, then I would have had to specialise which would have been another possible 3-4 years (that's about 9 years in college) Even if I skipped the conversion course, to get into any masters relating to what I studied it would have been another 2 years (6 years in total) I know people who graduated in 2006 from my course who are still in college or back to low paid jobs not relating to their degree. Needless to say the ones still in college have wealthy families to fund this as they don't work. If you have money, by all means, pursue it as it is an brilliant subject but the competition is hardcore. I have 2 friends who were fortunate enough to be able to go on from their 4 year BA degree-One spent another 3 years in college and one spent another 2 in college. They are both now unemployed.

PictureFrame

cakeisgood wrote: »

There is a lot of truth in this. You need a lot of money to go the college route. I did a 4 year degree with Psychology as my minor subject. It was a waste of time and counted for nothing as I would have had to do a 1-2 year conversion course after my 4 year degree, then I would have had to specialise which would have been another possible 3-4 years (that's about 9 years in college) Even if I skipped the conversion course, to get into any masters relating to what I studied it would have been another 2 years (6 years in total) I know people who graduated in 2006 from my course who are still in college or back to low paid jobs not relating to their degree. Needless to say the ones still in college have wealthy families to fund this as they don't work. If you have money, by all means, pursue it as it is an brilliant subject but the competition is hardcore. I have 2 friends who were fortunate enough to be able to go on from their 4 year BA degree-One spent another 3 years in college and one spent another 2 in college. They are both now unemployed.

Although I do agree with certain aspects of your discussion, I do think it is important not to discourage people against studyin one of the most important areas of healthcare in existence. Every career has it's ups and downs, Medicine requires you to spend 6 years in college plus at least 5-8 years as a junior doctor earning terrible pay for ridiculous hours of work before you can specialise.

Another thing is cost, I am far from a mbee of a wealthy family and realise that although it is an expensive career in pursue, there is funding available.

My course is a 3 year course and I intend (if I achieve the 1:1 I desire), have been told I will be able to go directly into a Researh PhD I will get paid for the research and the undergraduate teaching I do.

So all in all, things going well I will have my PhD finished in 4-5 years, and be earning some money whilst studying a specialism that is essential in today's world.

It's important not to only factor in costs and length of time, but also to include the enjoyment and intellectual enrichment you obtain from studying such a fantastic discipline.

cakeisgood

PictureFrame wrote: »

Although I do agree with certain aspects of your discussion, I do think it is important not to discourage people against studyin one of the most important areas of healthcare in existence. Every career has it's ups and downs, Medicine requires you to spend 6 years in college plus at least 5-8 years as a junior doctor earning terrible pay for ridiculous hours of work before you can specialise.

Another thing is cost, I am far from a mbee of a wealthy family and realise that although it is an expensive career in pursue, there is funding available.

My course is a 3 year course and I intend (if I achieve the 1:1 I desire), have been told I will be able to go directly into a Researh PhD I will get paid for the research and the undergraduate teaching I do.

So all in all, things going well I will have my PhD finished in 4-5 years, and be earning some money whilst studying a specialism that is essential in today's world.

It's important not to only factor in costs and length of time, but also to include the enjoyment and intellectual enrichment you obtain from studying such a fantastic discipline.

I am not discouraging anyone from studying psychology but I am realistic. I have seen people crack under the financial strain of it and give up totally on it. Yes, it is important but maybe the system needs to change to make it less difficult for people. A lot of people who would make great psychologists in various fields are pushed out of the running due to financial reasons. They need to make a living now and cant afford the luxury of studying for years before they qualify, especially in Ireland where opportunities are very limited. Also, they could end up studying for the same amount of time as a doctor but are not likely to earn the same level of salary or have the same chance of getting a career. There is funding yes, but not for everyone and is the funding going to be enough to live on? A 1.1 degree is extremely hard to achieve so a lot of people earning 2.1 degrees, which is also a high achievement, wont have this option available. Studying it part time is a good option because although it will take longer, you can still work fulltime if you have to.

Lyra Fangs

cakeisgood wrote: »

I am not discouraging anyone from studying psychology but I am realistic. I have seen people crack under the financial strain of it and give up totally on it. Yes, it is important but maybe the system needs to change to make it less difficult for people. A lot of people who would make great psychologists in various fields are pushed out of the running due to financial reasons. They need to make a living now and cant afford the luxury of studying for years before they qualify, especially in Ireland where opportunities are very limited. Also, they could end up studying for the same amount of time as a doctor but are not likely to earn the same level of salary or have the same chance of getting a career. There is funding yes, but not for everyone and is the funding going to be enough to live on? A 1.1 degree is extremely hard to achieve so a lot of people earning 2.1 degrees, which is also a high achievement, wont have this option available. Studying it part time is a good option because although it will take longer, you can still work fulltime if you have to.

Completely agree. There is a lack of funding for psychology in this country probably related to the ignorance displayed in this country towards mental health. Psychology is seen as an inferior profession to medicine yet the two go hand and hand, it is as important to treat the mind as it is the body.

Psychology is a subject for the wealthy which I feel is very unfortunate as it narrows down the quality of future psychologists (that is not to say that wealthier people won't make fine psychologists but that some less well off people could have made fantastic psychologists). That being said it is a career I am pursuing and I come from a family that would have significantly less money than the average so it's not impossible. I can't just go from my undergrad to further study no I have to work in between to save up money but it will happen eventually.

Faith

I think anyone wanting to study psychology, particularly the mental health areas, should be 100% prepared to emigrate - and I don't just mean to the UK. Mental health services are practically non-existant in this country and it's not going to get any better for a long time. I've got a Masters degree and I'm struggling to even get voluntary work at the moment.

The Black Oil

In one sense it's not much different to taking any other course because you need to work consistently and apply yourself to get along. If you compared my attitude to studying in first year to how much I pushed myself in the final year the difference was like night and day. At a desk by 8am, train home at 8pm each day (or later), in at weekends once the final year project kicked in and also for exams...full on. It was very full on - we were handing in work left, right, and centre. I was very motivated and energised and it paid off. Having the right attitude is so important. Even if the library is not your cup of tea, don't ignore it. It's still a useful resource, and get to know the little things like renewing books online, finding OECD reports and other materials buried somewhere in there.

For statistics, this is really matter of paying attention and doing your homework. If you're not great at it chances are someone in your class will be better than you. If you have classes in the computer lab and use SPSS there save the file the lecturer provided or the one you were working on. This can be useful for practice before an exam. It is not really the maths they're trying to convey, but to get you to grasp the mechanics of a particular way of thinking and knowing what to apply. I'm sure there are also lectures on iTunes and Youtube if you're stuck. With reading, look beyond core texts. Delve actively into journals for essays and assignments. If you don't it'll be seen as lazy and you'll lose marks on the breadth of evidence component in your feedback sheet. If you look at my Master's assignments (not psych) my bibliography listings were very, very long and it helped the overall grade. When I studied psych, my referencing wasn't as extensive, but let's be honest, you can get away with more at undergrad level. Remember the course is primarily academic and just a basic grounding in the subject. You are not going to develop insights into yourself or clinical skills at this stage.

I do not have experience of the subject at training level. I think to a certain degree the career pathways (depending on the area) are not very clear and this can understandably leave people muddled. From my understanding, apart from 'well, get a first, get practical, research and clinical experience and an MSc, apply and you might get an interview' you are essentially on your own. I think if you want to want to take things further you need to do much of what's been said here. Be patient, work hard, get to know people, use this forum, keep your ear to the ground, join a SIG or similar, look up people on Linkedin, volunteering...I think you'd be surprised at the range of roles people have found. It is bit of necessary evil to tick certain boxes. I would guess some volunteering and social care/intervention type work is not that hard to find, but finding work supervised by a senior psychologist...not so much. Again, geography may play a role.

It's not surprising that people are emigrating to find better opportunities academically, for work and to get their foot in the door. I would hope that the Irish mental system is not crap, at least not at a personnel level, anyway. There are highly trained practitioners out there in private practice, others are probably part of MDTs, CAMHS where they are likely overloaded and short on resources. NEPS is still a relatively recent phenomenon, but even during the Celtic Tiger we needed more resources and places at postgrad level. Even when the economy was roaring, schools would fundraise to fix toilets and use Tesco tokens to buy IT equipment. As a profession I think psychology is still relatively new here, so not surprisingly its infrastructure is very underdeveloped. In recession investment from the state simply won't be there to encourage it.

Try to keep up some social component if you can. No denying it can get competitive as your course progresses, but don't be afraid to share bits or names of things you found on a database. There was this one guy in my final year who talked shop for almost the whole time. It was very frustrating, so having people who can actually talk about ordinary stuff like the weather, TV (not that we had time) was a relief.

innad

On the subject of statistics.. when I did my Leaving Cert, aside from a smidgeon of probability, statistics weren't on the higher level curriculum at all. So none of us had ever done stats before. And I don't think you need to be particularly maths-minded to do statistics - they're quite different (though obviously related) fields.

My year was the first year they taught any statistics to undergrads at all. Students used to get to 4th year and be totally stumped with how to analyse the data from their final year projects. So be grateful for all the stats modules!