Is It Acceptable For Cafe Owners to Take Tips From Servers?

homeless student

I used to work in a cafe where the 2 owners insisted we(the waiters) shared the tip with them. I thought it was very unfair at the time as i'm sure the customers wouldn't of wanted the tips to go to the owners, the owners worked n the cafe every day but they were taking home the profits, unlike us who were on minimum wage.

Gone Drinking

That's a tough one.. if they both work in the kitchen or one in the kitchen and one waiting, then they would be entitled to the tips also I suppose.

NoCrackHaving

homeless student wrote: »

I used to work in a cafe where the 2 owners insisted we(the waiters) shared the tip with them. I thought it was very unfair at the time as i'm sure the customers wouldn't of wanted the tips to go to the owners, the owners worked n the cafe every day but they were taking home the profits, unlike us who were on minimum wage.

It depends on where you work. I used to work in a pizzeria where all of the staff (waiters, runners, cooks) split the tips as we were all on the same wage. Generally in bars the lounge staff keep the tips and the barmen have a higher hourly wage.

I've never really heard of an owner asking for tips though but if they were doing the cooking, serving etc. as well I can see their viewpoint even if it seems a bit mean.

Amirani

If the owners are actually working in the business then I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

BeerWolf

I've always been under the belief that tips go towards the 'servers', for their good services that warranted it. Their employer's already making the profit off the actual sale of the food!

If the employer is also servicing, then sure - why not.

Frosty McSnowballs

Some places pool tips, some don't.

If the owners are also workers then yeah, I see no problem with it. If they just turn up at the end of the day and look for half...well, that's a load of cock.

homeless student

the employers helped make the food but never served it.

Frosty McSnowballs

homeless student wrote: »

the employers helped make the food but never served it.

So, they work there?

General General

homeless student wrote: »

I used to work in a cafe where the 2 owners insisted we(the waiters) shared the tip with them. I thought it was very unfair at the time as i'm sure the customers wouldn't of wanted the tips to go to the owners, the owners worked n the cafe every day but they were taking home the profits, unlike us who were on minimum wage.

Owners haven't grasped the fact that they are no longer working for minimum wage, even if they aren't necessarily making much more than (or as much as) that having set up as owners. It's completely unacceptable, given that you're not getting some (even microscopic) percentage of the business as a 'going concern' for every week you put in there.

crockholm

I can see your point,being a bit cheesed off,but all things being equal,if they work the kitchens/serving area they should be entitled to a fair % of the tips. I f the cafe is new,they will prob be under a mountain of debt just to get it up and running and like yourself rely heavily on tips to get through the week.

Mr. G

Depends on the circumstances. If they are all on the same wage and all work together to produce the product, yes definately. I think cafe owners should not take tips given directly by customers for themselves though.

If you have some lazy colleague doing nothing and getting bits of the tips, then no..

Hilly Bill

The servers are only serving the food/drinks etc. They are not responsible for the quality of the products that they serve.
People tend to tip for the quality of the food rather than how the food was delivered to them.

homeless student

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

So, they work there?

yes they work there but I think its very sly of the owners as there is no way a customer would want any of the tip to go to the owners.

Das Kitty

A relative of mine works in a place where the tips get shared evenly between all the staff. Including the owner who works upstairs on paperwork and his wife who's on the payroll but spends her time looking after their 4 kids and doing nothing in the restaurant.

padd b1975

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

So, they work there?

They would have sourced the ingredients though and would have had massive input on the quality of them.

RossyG

A friend of mine worked in an now-closed cafe(*) ten years ago, where the manager would take the tips and keep them. The staff got nothing. I thought that was outrageous.

(*) For the record, the Cafe Coco in Chichester, West Sussex.

NoCrackHaving

homeless student wrote: »

yes they work there but I think its very sly of the owners as there is no way a customer would want any of the tip to go to the owners.

How do you know?

I said I used to work in kitchens and not on the floor and tips were still split. If the owners are doing the cooking and serving, fair enough I could see how they might be entitled to some of the tips-tipping isn't just for the server/waiter.

hfallada

You and the other employees ( not the owners) should have taken more of the tips than them. If a chef is also a owner he doesnt take part of the tips from the waitresses as he is generally on a higher wage.

Thats why I hate service charges as I seriously doubt the money is going to the employees

fishy fishy

tips are for the employees. The tips are not given to the owners of the business. The owner takes the profits. the employees are only on a wage and therefore gets the tips.

put the tips into the employees hands. do not tip the owners.

kraggy

What I dont understand is why we have tips in this country in the first place? Our pay structure for hospitality staff is totally different to America's in that ours are paid a full wage anyway while those in America are not.

Why should somebody be paid extra for simply doing their job? A teacher or nurse who puts in a valiant effort to help people doesn't get more financial reward than a crap teacher or nurse so why should a waiter? It's their job.

NoCrackHaving

RossyG wrote: »

A friend of mine worked in an now-closed cafe(*) ten years ago, where the manager would take the tips and keep them. The staff got nothing. I thought that was outrageous.

(*) For the record, the Cafe Coco in Chichester, West Sussex.

That's just a complete joke in fairness, doubt many people would be like that.

homeless student

kraggy wrote: »

What I dont understand is why we have tips in this country in the first place? Our pay structure for hospitality staff is totally different to America's in that ours are paid a full wage anyway while those in America are not.

Why should somebody be paid extra for simply doing their job? A teacher or nurse who puts in a valiant effort to help people doesn't get more financial reward than a crap teacher or nurse so why should a waiter? It's their job.

no one said you have to tip, did they? but when people choose to tip, it should go to the staff not the greedy owners.

Caliden

Acceptable? In society, probably not as it's a díckish move.
Illegal? If you're getting the minimum wage then it's probably not.

In Massachusetts the minimum wage is $8 but a lot of restaurants will pay $2-3 basic (to cover taxes) and then you get a cut of the tips (which you also have to declare for taxes purposes).

If you have a bad week and don't make enough tips, the restaurants will pay you enough to cover the minimum wage amount.

Frosty McSnowballs

homeless student wrote: »

yes they work there but I think its very sly of the owners as there is no way a customer would want any of the tip to go to the owners.

Of course you would think its sly. You have a job because of the owners. You could always try and get another job.

When I tip, it's a reflection on the food quality, quantity, atmosphere and service. Someone sources the ingredients, someone preps the meals, someone cooks the food and someone brings the food from A to B.

You are no more entitled to it than anyone else that works there.

padd b1975 wrote: »

They would have sourced the ingredients though and would have had massive input on the quality of them.

That's true, I agree.

MiseryMary

homeless student wrote: »

I used to work in a cafe where the 2 owners insisted we(the waiters) shared the tip with them. I thought it was very unfair at the time as i'm sure the customers wouldn't of wanted the tips to go to the owners, the owners worked n the cafe every day but they were taking home the profits, unlike us who were on minimum wage.

Well I give tips in the cup at the counter after i paid for the good service and the nice food i had , My sister works in a restaurants herself she works between Dinner counter or kitchen back room and what they do with the tips its kept in a Large jar tips that had build up over time kept in the back and if one of the girls was stuck money wise they use it and she gives it back when she can, they keep it there for emergency wise or they split it between the workers fair wise .

homeless student

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Of course you would think its sly. You have a job because of the owners. You could always try and get another job.

I don't work there anymore, moved on to better things.

Frosty McSnowballs

homeless student wrote: »

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Of course you would think its sly. You have a job because of the owners. You could always try and get another job.

I don't work there anymore, moved on to better things.

Do you get tips now?

awec

homeless student wrote: »

the employers helped make the food but never served it.

If the food was poor you'd be getting no tips, ultimately those who cook the food will have the biggest impact on the amount given as a tip.

homeless student

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

homeless student wrote: »

Do you get tips now?

im in college now, doing a post grad.

kraggy

homeless student wrote: »

no one said you have to tip, did they? but when people choose to tip, it should go to the staff not the greedy owners.

There's an expectation in restaurants for people to tip. This thread is about tipping. Ergo, I made a point about tipping.

If tips have been given, they should go to the staff working that shift. In this case the owners are working so technically they should get a share, but unless their business is doing badly, I think it's bad form as they are reaping the benefit of the profit so the employees should get all of the tips to share.

Frosty McSnowballs

homeless student wrote: »

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

im in college now, doing a post grad.

So no tips then, do you tip your lecturer? Make sure it's sufficient....he need to share it with the janitor.

All joking aside, pooling the tips with staff and owners isn't the worst thing in the world. There are people working in the service industry that are badly treated, under paid and good luck to getting proper breaks, food and days off.

You are lucky you made it out alive.

Enjoy college

robinph

The owners may be taking nothing out of the business in order that they can cover the costs of the other employees wages. Just because you are running a business doesn't mean you are loaded with cash.

Do you pay tax on your tips?

General General

Moonbaby wrote: »

Do you pay tax on your tips?

Do you iron your knickers? I bet you do! :pac:

Hilly Bill

homeless student wrote: »

no one said you have to tip, did they? but when people choose to tip, it should go to the staff not the greedy owners.

Sounds like greed on your part there.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think once you're earning minimum wage then you don't DESERVE tips, rather they be at the discretion of the customer. If the owners are doing their fair share of the work, then they're entitled to their share.

Wacker The Attacker

Why not? Isn't it at the customers discretion anyhow?

slpower01

The way I see it is... The owner has provided the premises, provided the food, hired staff to make my time their pleasant and get what I need so they should get rewarded. I know people say "but the service staff are on a low way" well that is their choice to take that job. There wasn't a single day when I was a first year apprentice carpenter doing a 45 hour week getting 240euro did a client tip me even though my boss was making thousands off me... Did I care? No, I made the choice to take that job which was BELOW mininmum wage.

General General

slpower01 wrote: »

The way I see it is... The owner has provided the premises, provided the food, hired staff to make my time their pleasant and get what I need so they should get rewarded. I know people say "but the service staff are on a low way" well that is their choice to take that job. There wasn't a single day when I was a first year apprentice carpenter doing a 45 hour week getting 240euro did a client tip me even though my boss was making thousands off me... Did I care? No, I made the choice to take that job which was BELOW mininmum wage.

If a tip had been left out, how would you have felt if that boss took a good chunk of it?

The nature of the business (cafes &c) is such that they need staff who will work a hard job for not much. Tips make it worthwhile to do the job (I typically doubled or more my hourly wage), otherwise it'd be too much work for too little money.. meaning you can only get morons to do the job.

Often, for a place to prosper, they need good floor staff but cannot pay enough.. the tips make up the difference. Any business (cafe-type) that messes with the tips will end up with sh!tty staff.

Not messing with the tips doesn't guarantee you won't end up with sh!tty staff, I know.

& acquiring a trade by apprenticeship/early-days-experience isn't really the same thing, is it?

General General

General General wrote: »

Tips make it worthwhile to do the job (I typically doubled or more my hourly wage)

So more than half your earnings aren't considered for tax purposes then.

fishy fishy

Caliden wrote: »

Acceptable? In society, probably not as it's a díckish move.
Illegal? If you're getting the minimum wage then it's probably not.

In Massachusetts the minimum wage is $8 but a lot of restaurants will pay $2-3 basic (to cover taxes) and then you get a cut of the tips (which you also have to declare for taxes purposes).

If you have a bad week and don't make enough tips, the restaurants will pay you enough to cover the minimum wage amount.

and other restaurants will let you work in their restaurant for no wages at all (so you can work for tips) and he gets free labour. And if somebody does a runner, you also get to pay for half their meal.

fishy fishy

kraggy wrote: »

What I dont understand is why we have tips in this country in the first place? Our pay structure for hospitality staff is totally different to America's in that ours are paid a full wage anyway while those in America are not.

Why should somebody be paid extra for simply doing their job? A teacher or nurse who puts in a valiant effort to help people doesn't get more financial reward than a crap teacher or nurse so why should a waiter? It's their job.

agreed - but Ireland wants to be the next state in the USA so therefore we have to forget we are Europeands and try to do everything like america.

sounds very mean, an employer taking some of the tips. Id be furious if I gave a tip to a server, only to find the owner of establishment had pocketed some.

General General

Moonbaby wrote: »

So more than half your earnings aren't considered for tax purposes then.

No longer in that business. So we're talking about the past with regards to this business. Why are you so concerned about this aspect of the picture? Do you pursue this line of questioning in every situation that arises? Say someone you know mentions they bought something on Amazon, do you immediately question how much tax was paid by Amazon?
Do you harangue buskers about their tax affairs?

OCorcrainn

Somehow reminded me of this, probably the worst people I have ever seen. The server in their does not get tips either, it goes all to the owner.

12:25 He interviews the only server.

General General

General General wrote: »

No longer in that business. So we're talking about the past with regards to this business. Why are you so concerned about this aspect of the picture? Do you pursue this line of questioning in every situation that arises? Say someone you know mentions they bought something on Amazon, do you immediately question how much tax was paid by Amazon?
Do you harangue buskers about their tax affairs?

I just think it is a bit rich to whinge about an owner being greedy or dishonest.
When those traits make your job worthwhile (as you said) in the first place.

General General

Moonbaby wrote: »

I just think it is a bit rich to whinge about an owner being greedy or dishonest.
When those traits make your job worthwhile (as you said) in the first place.

Did I whinge about the owner being greedy or dishonest? I don't think I did.

General General

General General wrote: »

Did I whinge about the owner being greedy or dishonest? I don't think I did.

Isn't that the topic we are debating?

homeless student

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Somehow reminded me of this, probably the worst people I have ever seen. The server in their does not get tips either, it goes all to the owner.

12:25 He interviews the only server.

skip to 26 mins

General General

Moonbaby wrote: »

Isn't that the topic we are debating?

No, I think you've wandered off topic & brought me with you. It ends here, though.

Grayson

I knoe of one place where TIPs were all distributed amongst the whole staff. But the way it worked was that say 70% was put to one side for waiting staff. The rest was split between the chefs/maitre d/ etc... The idea was they all contributed so they should all share. But the TIP would be based mainly on the work of the waiting staff hense the reason they got a higher percentage.

And once it had been split between groups, it would be split amongst staff based on how many hours they worked.

It's quite a fair way of doing it. So, yes, owners could get a cut, but only based on the hours they spent working.