Cllr John Sheahan, has called for “open season” on the Hen Harrier

Capercaille

Limerick County Council, Cllr John Sheahan, has called for “open season” on the Hen Harrier unless there are changes to special protection areas (SPA).
http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/council-leader-calls-for-open-season-on-hen-harriers/
Makes the Country look like a crowd of savages

OpenYourEyes

Supposedly he has a forestry company too! No surprise there!

Trying to sounds mart by mentioning Darwin and evolution when he obviously has no bloody clue what its about at all either. A so and so trying to get a few votes and make more money. All this while counties Clare, Kerry and others are delighted with their breeding raptors (WTSE) and making sure they use them to full effect to get in tourists - a situation where everybody wins.

jkforde

Capercaille wrote: »

Limerick County Council, Cllr John Sheahan, has called for “open season” on the Hen Harrier unless there are changes to special protection areas (SPA).
http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/council-leader-calls-for-open-season-on-hen-harriers/ Makes the Country look like a crowd of savages

this fella?... http://www.lcc.ie/Councillors/Councillors/John_Sheahan.htm

i suggest all concerned about this email Mr Sheahan and educate him on the principles of ecological sustainability and inter-dependence. can only hope he's open to being educated.

cd07

jkforde wrote: »

this fella?... http://www.lcc.ie/Councillors/Councillors/John_Sheahan.htm

i suggest all concerned about this email Mr Sheahan and educate him on the principles of ecological sustainability and inter-dependence. can only hope he's open to being educated.

Done. And I sent Simon Coveney one too, although last time I emailed him over a marine conservation issue it took him 6 months to reply so I wouldnt hold my breath....

Half-cocked

Done. Thanked him for making us all look like thick Paddy Bogmen.

thomur

Couldn't believe this when I read it first, thought it was a joke. What an idiot

Mothman

Guess I wouldn't make a councillor, I'm lost for words....

The ignorance is astonishing...

trebor28

When are they going to announce an open season on stupid, dumb, ignorant politicians/councilors!

Birdnuts

Maybe someone should tell the idiot that 30% of CAP funds coming to Ireland are for "Greening" measures. Most disturbing is the fact that this clown represents Ireland on an EU environmental committee!!!

Kess73

Yet another Limerick city councillor waffling on about something he is clueless on. I doubt if any city or county in Ireland has as many underqualified chancers airing misguided and frankly ignorant views on such a regular basis as Limerick has.

Maudi

Kess73 wrote: »

Yet another Limerick city councillor waffling on about something he is clueless on. I doubt if any city or county in Ireland has as many underqualified chancers airing misguided and frankly ignorant views on such a regular basis as Limerick has.

Jesus wept..who voted this cretin in..the man should be suspended or better sacked for such a comment..he has just suggested making a species of raptor extinct.

magicbastarder

Kess73 wrote: »

Yet another Limerick city councillor waffling on about something he is clueless on.

he's not just a limerick city councillor - he's part of the irish delegation to the EU on an environmental committee!

http://www.iro.ie/delegation.html#delegation

OpenYourEyes

How to register a complaint about him and his idiotic ramblings:

http://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/open-season-on-hen-harriers-how-to-complain-about-the-councillor/

magicbastarder

this seems to be the facebook page belonging to the committee he sits on:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/European-Commission-DG-Environment/305608429284

Capercaille

I sent this email to that degenerate Sheahan:

Dear Sir,


I am writing in reference to the article in the Limerick Leader concerning Hen Harrier. In the article you say " if restrictions in Special Protection Areas designated for Hen Harriers are not lifted, then open season on the hen harrier should be declared". As a native of Munster, I find this comment horrific. Hen Harriers are a rare/threatened species in Ireland. Alot of work is being done to try and protect the Irish population and you recommend killing them. I am a part time farmer and such comments only bring bad publicity on farmers and rural people in general. With the well published poisoning/shootings of reintroduced birds such as Golden Eagle/Sea Eagle/Red kite bringing shame and damaging our tourist industries, your ill advised comments only damage the Countries "Green Image" further.


Regards,
XXXXX

jkforde

magicbastarder wrote: »

he's not just a limerick city councillor - he's part of the irish delegation to the EU on an environmental committee!

http://www.iro.ie/delegation.html#delegation

wtf, he's on both committees responsible for advising on protection & conservation policies directly affecting the Hen Harrier! any point in lobbying the secretariat's chairman to get this ignorant suspended from representing us in the EU? (shakes his own tired cynical head....)

OpenYourEyes

jkforde wrote: »

wtf, he's on both committees responsible for advising on protection & conservation policies directly affecting the Hen Harrier! any point in lobbying the secretariat's chairman to get this ignorant suspended from representing us in the EU? (shakes his own tired cynical head....)

Well worth the few minutes it'd take to email anyone you think might be in a position to either kick him off these committees, stop him being the chair of Limerick Co.Council, or even someone higher up than him who will tell him to cop himself on and shut himself up in the future!

jkforde

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Well worth the few minutes it'd take to email anyone you think might be in a position to either kick him off these committees, stop him being the chair of Limerick Co.Council, or even someone higher up than him who will tell him to cop himself on and shut himself up in the future!

just emailed the secretariat's Donegal chairman demanding Sheahan's removal for bringing the CoR into disrepute.. curious what kind of response I'll get!

OpenYourEyes

A petition calling for his resignation: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/358/804/673/

Worth taking the few seconds to sign, even if it just gives him a bit of a scare or gets him given out, or gets him to cop on a bit in the future!

robp

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

A petition calling for his resignation: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/358/804/673/

Worth taking the few seconds to sign, even if it just gives him a bit of a scare or gets him given out, or gets him to cop on a bit in the future!

People have resigned for far smaller errors.

dodderangler

Who the fuq is this bloke??!!
Who does he think he is to declare an open season on hen harriers??
I've yet to see one in Ireland and I do quite a bit of hunting so I walk around the mountain sides and meadows and flat lands and have seen plenty of bops but not yet seen a hen harrier and this pr!ck wants open season on them???

Half-cocked

Anyone get a response for this guy with an unopenable attachment?

OpenYourEyes

Half-cocked wrote: »

Anyone get a response for this guy with an unopenable attachment?

I manged to open it:

Reply to “OPEN SEASON “remark

Dear Sirs,

I wish to thank you for writing to me to express your views in relation to an article that appeared recently in the Limerick Leader newspaper.

In the article in question I made reference to “OPEN SEASON” on the hen harrier if certain changes were not made. This remark infers that I advocate that this bird of prey be hunted similar to wild game that is hunted at certain times of the year. This inference was entirely unintended and I apologise for any upset my comment may have caused. I wish to clarify that my comment was meant in the context of my political battle with the Irish Government to seek a proper plan whereby the landowners and particularly, the farmers are not out of pocket by a designation that hamstrings them from earning their livelihood. This, unfortunately, is the case at present.

I refer in my article to a situation whereby I believe all can co-exist. I ask would you seek to be compensated if your Government or local council made changes that devalued your property or adversely affected your ability to make a livelihood. The records show that the overwhelming majority of landowners do not receive any compensation. When the SPA designation was introduced it was done in tandem with a compensation package to accommodate landowners. However, the scheme was axed in the very early stages leaving farmers out of pocket and their livelihoods threatened.

I hope I have provided you with some idea of the level of frustration experienced by landowners in the affected areas. I would ask you, in the best interests of the Hen Harrier, to support me and lobby the Government and the powers that be in Europe for a properly managed and adequately funded plan of conservation so we, all as creatures of this world, can live in harmony.

Yours faithfully,

John Sheahan

recedite

It comes as a file called, strangely enough, "clarifiction". You have to change the file name ending from .dat to .doc before you can open it.
It seems the chap was only trying to tap the govt. or the EU for a few quid, and everybody misunderstood his intentions.

OpenYourEyes

Trying to tap the government for a few quid, and threatening that Hen Harriers will be shot down if he doesn't get his way! I can understand the frustrations of landowners whose land have been designated as SAC's/SPA's, but councillors should be helping them explore their options and do this in conjunction with various research and conservation bodies if necessary.

His threats are lazy and pig-ignorant, and are likely to be read and taken seriously by similarly lazy and ignorant people unfortunately. And it only takes a small number of misguided individuals to do a lot of damage to species with such low population numbers and densities as the Hen Harrier.

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Trying to tap the government for a few quid, and threatening that Hen Harriers will be shot down if he doesn't get his way! I can understand the frustrations of landowners whose land have been designated as SAC's/SPA's, but councillors should be helping them explore their options and do this in conjunction with various research and conservation bodies if necessary.

His threats are lazy and pig-ignorant, and are likely to be read and taken seriously by similarly lazy and ignorant people unfortunately. And it only takes a small number of misguided individuals to do a lot of damage to species with such low population numbers and densities as the Hen Harrier.

His comments about compensation are inaccurate too since landowners with SAC and SPA designations are at the top of the queue when it comes to entry and funding from schemes like AEOS, REPS etc.

magicbastarder

that really just reads like someone who's trying to dig upwards.

Maudi

recedite wrote: »

It comes as a file called, strangely enough, "clarifiction". You have to change the file name ending from .dat to .doc before you can open it.
It seems the chap was only trying to tap the govt. or the EU for a few quid, and everybody misunderstood his intentions.

Sorry recidite i aint buyin the "tryin to tap the gov crap"this p.o.s said what he said.and it pretty much advocated wiping out a raptor species by (insinuated )shooting..

Maudi

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Trying to tap the government for a few quid, and threatening that Hen Harriers will be shot down if he doesn't get his way! I can understand the frustrations of landowners whose land have been designated as SAC's/SPA's, but councillors should be helping them explore their options and do this in conjunction with various research and conservation bodies if necessary.

His threats are lazy and pig-ignorant, and are likely to be read and taken seriously by similarly lazy and ignorant people unfortunately. And it only takes a small number of misguided individuals to do a lot of damage to species with such low population numbers and densities as the Hen Harrier.

His threats are "lazy and pig ignorant"and are likely to be taken seriously by lazy and pig ignorant people??are you serious?? Because we take offence to his suggested annilation of a bird species you are saying we are similiar to him frankly..i find your post almost as disgusting as his Suggested policy of "dealing"with these "in the way"birds

OpenYourEyes

Maudi wrote: »

His threats are "lazy and pig ignorant"and are likely to be taken seriously by lazy and pig ignorant people??are you serious?? Because we take offence to his suggested annilation of a bird species you are saying we are similiar to him frankly..i find your post almost as disgusting as his Suggested policy of "dealing"with these "in the way"birds

You have obviously mistaken what I've said - I could have chosen my wording better perhaps, but a brief and simple look at my other posts on this thread and similar topics could have solved this for you either!

I was implying that similarly ignorant and lazy people would act on his statements and kill Hen Harriers because, in light of his words, they'd feel justified in doing so. This would be ignorant, and the lazy option rather than searching for a way to live with these fantastic birds.

Whilst we should obviously take his ignorant statements seriously, we obviously wouldn't be taking the suggestion to kill raptors seriously as a way of solving anything.

Maudi

I apoligise..praps i read you post a tad quick and got my wires crossed i accept that you in no way endorse this mans monsterous suggestions.and am sorry if my post suggested otherwise.

OpenYourEyes

I responded to his email clarifying for him exactly what he said, and what it was obvious he meant from it. I also highlighted his complete misunderstanding of evolution, that his he should be helping landowners by proactively seeking out their available alternatives rather than threaten protected species, and stated he was not suitable to represent Ireland on matters of Environment, Energy, Natural Resources etc - and cc'd in the relevant ministers and Conn Murray of Limerick County Council.

I don't normally email people like this, but his words were so blatantly ignorant and have the potential to do so much damage that I really feel its worth spreading the word and making sure its known that this kind of crap isn't acceptable from public representatives or anyone else!

Ape Owners

hard working people out there,look at this.took years to get our native raptors back.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/all-grown-up-irishbred-eagle-chicks-fly-the-nest-29447245.html

Capercaille

Ape Owners wrote: »

hard working people out there,look at this.took years to get our native raptors back.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/all-grown-up-irishbred-eagle-chicks-fly-the-nest-29447245.html

It said that the chick in Kerry is dead. The nest collapsed so Paudie is dead:(

solomien

While John Sheehans comments may have been inappropriate, they are indicitative of what happens when people are faced with bad laws. In other words when legal and political remedies do not work people are compelled to use other routes.

My view is very simply and I believe reasonable. If society wishes to protect the hen harrier (as I believe it should) then society should compensate people who lose out fianancialy.

It is absolutely frustrating for many land owners that their land usage options are severly curtailed without any right to compensation. This is particulary so when all the evidence would suggest that afforestation, the most common alternative land use in SPAs if properly managed is actually beneficial to this bird. yet the planting of forests is completely banned in these areas.

No wonder people and their representatives are frustrated and call for drastic action

OpenYourEyes

solomien wrote: »

While John Sheehans comments may have been inappropriate, they are indicitative of what happens when people are faced with bad laws. In other words when legal and political remedies do not work people are compelled to use other routes.

My view is very simply and I believe reasonable. If society wishes to protect the hen harrier (as I believe it should) then society should compensate people who lose out fianancialy.

It is absolutely frustrating for many land owners that their land usage options are severly curtailed without any right to compensation. This is particulary so when all the evidence would suggest that afforestation, the most common alternative land use in SPAs if properly managed is actually beneficial to this bird. yet the planting of forests is completely banned in these areas.

No wonder people and their representatives are frustrated and call for drastic action

As I mentioned above, the job of a public representative should be to help landowners explore their available options to their fullest potential, and to help landowners be compensated too. Birdwatch Ireland even said in their statement that they are always trying to get farmers compensated for managing their lands in a productive but environmentally friendly way - public goods for public services. The enemy in getting landowners compensated isn't the environmental organisations - its the idiot politicians!

But Cllr.Sheahan went about this in an adversarial, lazy, selfish and completely ignorant way. There is absolutely no excuse for that. His comments help absolutely nobody. He is a text-book definition of a Gombeen politician.




Regarding forestry being beneficial to this bird - the key part of your sentence is "if managed properly" - this is not always (I dare say rarely) done. Another example of where available funds could be diverted to encourage Wildlife-friendly management, in which case the landowner, the wildife, and everyone else would benefit. But there isn't the political will to move from purely output/profit based production to a more holistic approach that would still see relatively high output but would have numerous other benefits.

Again, these are things that environmental organisations campaign for, and that landowners/farmers etc. would not be left out of pocket from, but the larger-scale foresters and farmers couldn't be arsed with changing because they're happy getting the money the way they're doing things now and don't want to change. Its hard for Birdwatch Ireland etc. to get things done in the face of lobbying from the bigwigs in the IFA - despite the fact that I'm sure plenty of IFA members (particularly the smaller ones) would benefit and would be very happy to change practices if they could afford it.

Birdnuts

solomien wrote: »

While John Sheehans comments may have been inappropriate, they are indicitative of what happens when people are faced with bad laws. In other words when legal and political remedies do not work people are compelled to use other routes.

My view is very simply and I believe reasonable. If society wishes to protect the hen harrier (as I believe it should) then society should compensate people who lose out fianancialy.

It is absolutely frustrating for many land owners that their land usage options are severly curtailed without any right to compensation. This is particulary so when all the evidence would suggest that afforestation, the most common alternative land use in SPAs if properly managed is actually beneficial to this bird. yet the planting of forests is completely banned in these areas.

No wonder people and their representatives are frustrated and call for drastic action

There is already a large "greening" element to farmers SFP's under CAP. Plus farmers with land in SPA's get top-ups in the form of AEOS schemes etc.. Now one could argue that more money should go in this direction under the CAP(which is something I would strongly support) but to say there's nothing on offer is inaccurate. Plus large areas of Hen Harrier SPA's are already under forestry, particulary in the SW of the country which includes Limerick.

As for getting frustrated - Some of my land in North Mayo is included in the Broadhaven SPA which in theory restricts some of my options in terms of planning. But to suggest I would be justified in engaging in some form of environmental vandelism is way off the mark, unless your suggesting we simply bin the whole planning system in this country and allow a free for all. This country is famous enough for bad planning without going down this destructive, futile route.

magicbastarder

solomien wrote: »

If society wishes to protect the hen harrier (as I believe it should) then society should compensate people who lose out fianancialy.

this is a point which probably would require a separate thread to tease out, but i think the point made is not generally applicable. an example off the top of my head - if we introduce a new law related to animal welfare, should farmers be compensated for not being able to do something which society now considers to be cruel?

Capercaille

solomien wrote: »

While John Sheehans comments may have been inappropriate, they are indicitative of what happens when people are faced with bad laws. In other words when legal and political remedies do not work people are compelled to use other routes.

My view is very simply and I believe reasonable. If society wishes to protect the hen harrier (as I believe it should) then society should compensate people who lose out fianancialy.

It is absolutely frustrating for many land owners that their land usage options are severly curtailed without any right to compensation. This is particulary so when all the evidence would suggest that afforestation, the most common alternative land use in SPAs if properly managed is actually beneficial to this bird. yet the planting of forests is completely banned in these areas.

No wonder people and their representatives are frustrated and call for drastic action

The best habitat for Hen Harrier is moorland/grassland mosaic habitat. Other habitats which are used are open areas with extensive scrub or bramble and developing pre-thicket forest (1st and 2nd rotation crops). Concerning forestry plantations once the canopy has closed in and the scrub understorey dies the forest becomes useless to Hen Harrier for foraging.

Capercaille

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/hen-harriers-protection-status-is-hitting-forestry-opportunities-29511650.html
More anti-Harrier rhetoric. The full article is the newspaper is more disturbing. He basically says that if the present forestry restrictions persist the Hen Harrier will end up being a foe.

OpenYourEyes

Capercaille wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/hen-harriers-protection-status-is-hitting-forestry-opportunities-29511650.html
More anti-Harrier rhetoric. The full article is the newspaper is more disturbing. He basically says that if the present forestry restrictions persist the Hen Harrier will end up being a foe.

The bit at the end really gets me - "Afforestation and farming can complement one another and retain the hen harrier as a friend not a foe."

Basically saying " ah sure let us do what we want to do so that we can get money, the Hen Harrier will be grand!" - which obviously isn't true! In certain specific instances forestry can be beneficial for Hen Harriers, but its not the kind of forestry this guy has in mind - when he plants forestry he's worried about his bank balance and nothing else.

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

The bit at the end really gets me - "Afforestation and farming can complement one another and retain the hen harrier as a friend not a foe."

Basically saying " ah sure let us do what we want to do so that we can get money, the Hen Harrier will be grand!" - which obviously isn't true! In certain specific instances forestry can be beneficial for Hen Harriers, but its not the kind of forestry this guy has in mind - when he plants forestry he's worried about his bank balance and nothing else.

Interesting to note too that he is a contractor, not a farmer. Most of it is self serving rubbish. Anyone who has been to this part of the country knows the area is already heavily afforested, including within Hen Harrier SPA's. All farmers and other landowners have to follow conditions related to their SFP's and land designations. He think his business should be made an exception for his own personal benefit. If we're to follow that logic then with might as well abandon all planning, standards and environmental controls in this country.

robp

The state subsides forestry. There is a strong case to made for subsidising forestry but with limitations. I am no economist but I wonder is Ireland at a level where subsidised forestry is a case of diminishing returns.

He claims

We have the fastest growth rates and highest timber quality of any country in Europe.

Which is true but also

and highest timber quality of any country in Europe.

I would argue we have opposite. Irish softwoods are some of the worst. I ran a small boat building project some years again and I learned it was imperative to insist to never purchase Irish softwoods. It was the knottiest coarse grained stuff available. Every economy needs a certain amount of low grade material but some of this is not exportable or only exportable when prices in the UK are right. the exception is these processed products like MDF. Some lodgepole pine plantations in the west produce timber of such low value that thinning is avoided to reduce costs. If we are going to give economic arguments credence we should look at them at a national scale.

Alun

I agree on the above. I've just come back from a walking holiday in Germany (Saarland) where I saw some Sitka spruce logs that had been recently felled (they had the word Sitka sprayed on them, that's how I know). Not only were they a good 50% thicker than most of what I see regularly in Coillte forests here in Wicklow, and as straight as a die, you could probably have fitted 3 or 4 of their growth rings into one of a typical Irish log of the same species. BTW The forests there are a joy to behold and to walk through ... mixed native beech, oak, birch and planted conifers, but planted further apart and selectively felled rather than clear felled.

Also, while we're on the subject of BOP's, we were staying in a hotel one night that was part of a fish farm (trout and other fish) and saw an osprey circling above one of the ponds from the restaurant window. He/she then swooped down and grabbed a trout and flew off into the distance. Apparently the owner has no problem with this at all, and says he even breeds extra fish for both the ospreys and the resident grey herons. They first appeared in 2006 and have been discovered breeding in the nearby forests, and have returned every year since. The owner reckons he gets as many people coming to see the ospreys as he does coming to fish in the ponds!

You can see some pictures of them here http://www.konrad-naturfoto.de/html/hunsruck_trauntal.html There's plenty about them on the net, all in German, but just google "fischadler trauntal" and you'll get plenty of info on them.