Safety issues with hatchbacks??

ash2008

Hi,

Im learning to drive and looking to buy my first car. I really want a hatchback (easy to maneuver, easy to park, cheap on gas) and having test driven a Yaris, had my heart set on one of those.

Problem is a couple of friends and also a car dealer have all told me that getting a Yaris (or pretty much any hatchback) is not a good idea for a first time driver. They say that these type of cars dont take hits well and if i got in an accident, i'd likely get hurt pretty bad....which kind of freaks me out!!
They say I should get a sedan.

I have no clue on cars myself, so thats why im looking for some other opinions. What may be a factor in this, is that Im in Canada, so there is a lot more traffic over here. There also seems to be a lot of bad drivers, but maybe Im only noticing it now that im learning myself.

ThunderZtorm

I've been driving a Peugeot 306 hatchback ever since I started to learn to drive, and I've never had any problems.

I enjoy the easy parking and the feeling that it's relatively easy to "overview" as it's not too big, and it still has lots of cargo space if needed.

Note that I've never been in any type of accident though.

_Kaiser_

I wouldn't worry too much about the type of car as a indicator as how "safe" it is - there's a lot of SUV type cars for example that do worse in crash tests than saloons. Equally there's saloons that do pretty badly too.

I started off in a hatchback myself and never had any issues.

The Yaris seems to do ok though... have a look here but I wouldn't get too freaked out about it either.

Out of curiosity, what was the dealer suggesting you buy?

corkgsxr

I could understand one of those mpv's where the back row is almost wedged against the back glass but never thought it about the small cars.

Your tips/crashes are more likely to be small knocks. If you have a big one a bigger car will generally come out better but smaller cars aren't that bad

maceocc2

I hate this argument against smaller cars, as mentioned above there are SUV's with far worse safety ratings than a yaris. The old Nissan Navara had pretty much a zero rating due to a litany of failures (many of which where resolved now):
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_navara/317.aspx

The land rover free lander in the past only got 3 stars:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/land_rover_freelander_2002/142.aspx

Where in the exact same test a Yaris sales through with 5 stars:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota_yaris_2005/246.aspx

Some cars are safer than others, but generally speaking the size doesn't matter. Crappy cars come in all sizes

corktina

Take no notice , get what you feel suits you best. All modern cars are built to high safety standards, ignore people's prejudices.

bazz26

OP, the friends that are advising you are talking through their cakeholes.

justsomebloke

OP I would be more worried by the amount of people who think you are going to have an accident.

corkgsxr

bazz26 wrote: »

OP, the friends that are advising you are talking through their cakeholes.

But but everyone should drive a big saloon with a tiny diesel engine.

Electric mirrors sur what would ya use them for.

It doesnt get hot enough for AC here.

Electric windows sur they only break.

Only the driver needs a airbag.

BrianD3

maceocc2 wrote: »

I hate this argument against smaller cars, as mentioned above there are SUV's with far worse safety ratings than a yaris. The old Nissan Navara had pretty much a zero rating due to a litany of failures (many of which where resolved now):
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_navara/317.aspx

The land rover free lander in the past only got 3 stars:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/land_rover_freelander_2002/142.aspx

Where in the exact same test a Yaris sales through with 5 stars:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota_yaris_2005/246.aspx

Some cars are safer than others, but generally speaking the size doesn't matter. Crappy cars come in all sizes

Cars in different weight classes cant really be compared. A 1 star Navara or 3 star Freelander could well be safer than a 5 star Yaris in most crashes. Here's what EuroNCAP themselves say about this

EuroNCAP wrote:

Are large cars safer than small cars?

In frontal impacts between cars, the occupants of the heavier car or the one with higher structures tend to fare better than those travelling in lighter, lower cars. As it is not possible to simulate the influence of mass in a test against a fixed barrier, Euro NCAP recommends comparison only between cars which are of a similar mass (+/- 150kg) and in the same category. Such comparisons allow the relative safety performance of cars to be judged accurately.

Can results be compared between groups?

Accurate comparisons can only be made between cars in the same group. The frontal test mirrors a crash between two cars of similar size. A heavier car or one with a higher structure will tend to have an advantage if it impacts a smaller car. The Euro NCAP results cannot be used to predict the outcome of such crashes.

Having said that I think that if a learner driver is being advised to buy a big car for its safety "in case there's a crash" that's a bad start to their driving career. And a Yaris is still decent enough for safety particularly compared to older designs such as 205s and Starlets that people used to learn in a few years ago.

dr.fuzzenstein

corkgsxr wrote: »

But but everyone should drive a big saloon with a tiny diesel engine.

Electric mirrors sur what would ya use them for.

It doesnt get hot enough for AC here.

Electric windows sur they only break.

Only the driver needs a airbag.

Well it does, once every 10 years or so.
People only want AC so they can say "My car has AC, you know!"
In southern climes you genuinely need AC, because of over 30 degree heat.
Whatever perceived "benefits" it has here, to me it's like Brown Sauce in tea. You have it, you don't know what to do with it and you're going to use it any which way you can. (puts on flame suit to await firestorm from AC zealots)
Here you need it about as much as a sunroof in outer space.

corkgsxr

Its also very fast at clearing foggy windows when theres no heat yet to do it

kirving

corktina wrote: »

Take no notice , get what you feel suits you best. All modern cars are built to high safety standards, ignore people's prejudices.

How modern is modern though? For the OP, and many young drivers, a 98-99 model car could be a common starting point. Taking a few cars from that time, the Hyundai Accent, Nissan Almera and the Ford Focus, it's obvious that all cars are not built to anything like the same safety standards.

I'm choosing my examples here, but looking at newer cars, it's clear that the Chevrolet Aveo isn't a patch on an Opel Astra of two years previous.

These test of course are only an indicator of how a car will perform in a crash, against a similarly sized vehicle but you don't want to be driving around in something that is clearly very badly designed. It's also a reasonable indicator of how the rest of the car has been designed and put together.


Have a look at this list OP, to give yourself a better idea of what to be looking at. I wouldn't get anything with less than four stars.
http://www.euroncap.com/supermini.aspx

Also, if your friends are discounting the Yaris purely because of it's size, ask them what they think of the Chevrolet Aveo, Ford Escort and Fiat Brava.

Victor Meldrew

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well it does, once every 10 years or so.
People only want AC so they can say "My car has AC, you know!"
In southern climes you genuinely need AC, because of over 30 degree heat.
Whatever perceived "benefits" it has here, to me it's like Brown Sauce in tea. You have it, you don't know what to do with it and you're going to use it any which way you can. (puts on flame suit to await firestorm from AC zealots)
Here you need it about as much as a sunroof in outer space.

Air Conditioning makes the car far more pleasant in summer, and is great at clearing foggy windows in Winter. The ability to drive in summer with the windows up also helps allergies. Running the A/C vs drag from windows being open tips in favour of A/C once at highway speeds as far as fuel consumption goes.

Not all A/C is equal. but any half decent system is well worth while.

I will counter this with an observation that ubiquitous A/C seems to have "allowed" manufacturers to reduce the effectiveness of ventilation systems. Much older cars were far better than modern ones at pumping through fresh air.

Anan1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well it does, once every 10 years or so.
People only want AC so they can say "My car has AC, you know!"
In southern climes you genuinely need AC, because of over 30 degree heat.
Whatever perceived "benefits" it has here, to me it's like Brown Sauce in tea. You have it, you don't know what to do with it and you're going to use it any which way you can. (puts on flame suit to await firestorm from AC zealots)
Here you need it about as much as a sunroof in outer space.

Whose needs are you describing here? Yours? Mine? Everyone else's?

Victor Meldrew

Kevin Irving wrote: »

How modern is modern though? For the OP, and many young drivers, a 98-99 model car could be a common starting point. .......it's obvious that all cars are not built to anything like the same safety standards.

Also, as a learner driver, ABS is probably more important, better again if you can stump up the dough for a car with ESP. Standard from 2007 onwards I think ?

Passive safety is the crash rating, Active safety is the ability to avoid a crash.

Anyone who claims that there is merit in learning how to cadence brake is nuts. You have enough to learn,

HandsomeDan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well it does, once every 10 years or so.
People only want AC so they can say "My car has AC, you know!"
In southern climes you genuinely need AC, because of over 30 degree heat.
Whatever perceived "benefits" it has here, to me it's like Brown Sauce in tea. You have it, you don't know what to do with it and you're going to use it any which way you can. (puts on flame suit to await firestorm from AC zealots)
Here you need it about as much as a sunroof in outer space.

Talking bollocks.

Cars without AC are clammy and uncomfortable.

I would never buy a car again without AC.

Chimaera

It's worth pointing out that OP is in Canada where large SUVs and pickups are much more common than they are here. And there's a general distrust of small cars in North America anyway.

@OP I'd suggest something Golf-sized for over there. Avoid VW unless you like doing a lot of your own maintenance - the NA VW dealers have a horrific reputation for incompetence. Though there's a good enthusiast community. For reliable motoring over there, stick with Japanese stuff if you can.

dr.fuzzenstein

I think we need a separate AC thread.
On a pleasant day in the early to mid 20-s there's no need on earth for AC.
In the winter you're just having the AC fight it out with the heater. Who will win?
If anyone's car is clammy and damp in the winter, you don't have the fan on or not enough heat.
Fridges for Eskimos.
But I agree to disagree for the sake of this thread.

mickdw

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well it does, once every 10 years or so.
People only want AC so they can say "My car has AC, you know!"
In southern climes you genuinely need AC, because of over 30 degree heat.
Whatever perceived "benefits" it has here, to me it's like Brown Sauce in tea. You have it, you don't know what to do with it and you're going to use it any which way you can. (puts on flame suit to await firestorm from AC zealots)
Here you need it about as much as a sunroof in outer space.

What a load of nonsense.
Have you ever experienced Aircon or climate control?
The car is cool and comfortable quickly on a warm day. In our climate, its the way the windows are kept absolutely free from fogging up that is the main advantage.
My last 3 cars have had air con and I will certainly not buy one without it ever again.

pred racer

ash2008 wrote: »

Hi,

Im learning to drive and looking to buy my first car. I really want a hatchback (easy to maneuver, easy to park, cheap on gas) and having test driven a Yaris, had my heart set on one of those.

Problem is a couple of friends and also a car dealer have all told me that getting a Yaris (or pretty much any hatchback) is not a good idea for a first time driver. They say that these type of cars dont take hits well and if i got in an accident, i'd likely get hurt pretty bad....which kind of freaks me out!!
They say I should get a sedan.

I have no clue on cars myself, so thats why im looking for some other opinions. What may be a factor in this, is that Im in Canada, so there is a lot more traffic over here. There also seems to be a lot of bad drivers, but maybe Im only noticing it now that im learning myself.

Hatchbacks are fine, safety wise. Your friends are idiots and the car dealer has a saloon he is trying to sell you

Yakuza

By virtue of its being smaller (and no boot sticking out at the end to have to work out where it is when parking), I'd recommend a hatchback for a learner driver as it's much easier to park. Whoever is dissing hatchbacks on safety grounds has another agenda, for sure.

dgt

Years ago I was a passenger in a car when it went on its roof. I got out and walked away, as did the driver. Car was a Fiat Punto.

So anyone saying hatches are unsafe are talking sh*te

dr.fuzzenstein

mickdw wrote: »

What a load of nonsense.
Have you ever experienced Aircon or climate control?
The car is cool and comfortable quickly on a warm day. In our climate, its the way the windows are kept absolutely free from fogging up that is the main advantage.
My last 3 cars have had air con and I will certainly not buy one without it ever again.

Just got mine refilled. At 32 degrees you need it. Below that you don't.
You don't see an Italian turn on the heater at 30+ degrees only to drown it out with aircon and say "well, it makes the car nice and cosy"
Below 25 degrees see no point for it. When I turn it on in the winter, the car gets cold and clammy and once I turn it off the windows fog up(and that's why you think you need aircon in the winter), once the heat has made everything nice and cosy again, clear view all round.
If your windows are fogged up, I suggest getting a new cabin air filter or using the fan at a higher setting. I'm amazed at how many people drive around with the fan off and complain they can't see.
If I turn my aircon on in the winter and then turn the heater on, it's the same, only I need more fuel and more heat.
As for clearing the windows? Heated Windscreen.
You are right about a warm day, once every 5-6 years AC is very welcome.

HandsomeDan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Just got mine refilled. At 32 degrees you need it. Below that you don't.
You don't see an Italian turn on the heater at 30+ degrees only to drown it out with aircon and say "well, it makes the car nice and cosy"
Below 25 degrees see no point for it. When I turn it on in the winter, the car gets cold and clammy and once I turn it off the windows fog up(and that's why you think you need aircon in the winter), once the heat has made everything nice and cosy again, clear view all round.
If your windows are fogged up, I suggest getting a new cabin air filter or using the fan at a higher setting. I'm amazed at how many people drive around with the fan off and complain they can't see.
If I turn my aircon on in the winter and then turn the heater on, it's the same, only I need more fuel and more heat.
As for clearing the windows? Heated Windscreen.
You are right about a warm day, once every 5-6 years AC is very welcome.

Comfortable cab temp is about 21 degrees, so if it's anything above 20 outside... it's gonna get balmy inside.

And would you stop with all this 'turn on the hayter' boglish. Most cars with AC have so form of thermostatic control also.

ed: I agree with you on folk who leave their fan set to off -wtf?!

markpb

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

(puts on flame suit to await firestorm from AC zealots)

It's ironic that you became the zealot of this thread.

Del2005

maceocc2 wrote: »

I hate this argument against smaller cars, as mentioned above there are SUV's with far worse safety ratings than a yaris. The old Nissan Navara had pretty much a zero rating due to a litany of failures (many of which where resolved now):
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_navara/317.aspx

The land rover free lander in the past only got 3 stars:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/land_rover_freelander_2002/142.aspx

Where in the exact same test a Yaris sales through with 5 stars:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota_yaris_2005/246.aspx

Some cars are safer than others, but generally speaking the size doesn't matter. Crappy cars come in all sizes

NCAP ratings can be a bit of a red herring, but they are better than nothing, as they never crash into any but solid blocks. See what happens when two cars with different loads crash into each other. Which may be why the OP is being warned off small cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbKtuRMJrsg

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Just got mine refilled. At 32 degrees you need it. Below that you don't.
You don't see an Italian turn on the heater at 30+ degrees only to drown it out with aircon and say "well, it makes the car nice and cosy"
Below 25 degrees see no point for it. When I turn it on in the winter, the car gets cold and clammy and once I turn it off the windows fog up(and that's why you think you need aircon in the winter), once the heat has made everything nice and cosy again, clear view all round.
If your windows are fogged up, I suggest getting a new cabin air filter or using the fan at a higher setting. I'm amazed at how many people drive around with the fan off and complain they can't see.
If I turn my aircon on in the winter and then turn the heater on, it's the same, only I need more fuel and more heat.
As for clearing the windows? Heated Windscreen.
You are right about a warm day, once every 5-6 years AC is very welcome.

That's why Climate control was invented, you set it at whatever temp you like and don't worry about what the outside is doing:D

Victor Meldrew

dgt wrote: »

Years ago I was a passenger in a car when it went on its roof. I got out and walked away, as did the driver. Car was a Fiat Punto.

So anyone saying hatches are unsafe are talking sh*te

It depends on how you end up on you roof..... Sliding off the road versus barrel roll, versus being rammed off the road.

It's not the fall, it's the sudden stop. As it were.

Still reckon being able to AVOID an accident / ditch is more important for a novice. So something that makes up the skills deficit (ABS or ESP) is more useful than having a boot, which really only matters if you are struck from behind.

getting ABS on a car is a huge safety boon for a novice , as is ESP.

ash2008

thanks for the replies.
Ever since i decided to start learning how to drive, I have received so much 'advice' from people - all they are doing is confusing and worrying me.

A few people actually told me not to bother taking lessons with an instructor as it was a waste of money. I ignored that and took lessons and really happy that I did. So perhaps this is another piece of advice that I should ignore.

ThunderZtorm

ash2008 wrote: »

thanks for the replies.
Ever since i decided to start learning how to drive, I have received so much 'advice' from people - all they are doing is confusing and worrying me.

A few people actually told me not to bother taking lessons with an instructor as it was a waste of money. I ignored that and took lessons and really happy that I did. So perhaps this is another piece of advice that I should ignore.

Indeed it is. I would NEVER suggest learning to drive without an instructor's guidance. A good instructor, mind - a bad instructor can be a nightmare.