Right of way

Richard tea

Forgive the crude drawing. Just looking for who has the right of way in this situation. Its in a housing estate with no stop sign.

born2bwild

Red arrows.

CiniO

Car following red arrows.

Richard tea

born2bwild wrote: »

Red arrows.

Good stuff. I was 90% sure of that.

Avns1s

On roads of equal importance like in the drawing, traffic coming from the right has right of way.

dubscottie

Red arrows.. Green has to yeild to traffic coming from the right.

Mycroft H

Red arrows. Yield to traffic from the right.

CiniO

Avns1s wrote: »

On roads of equal importance like in the drawing, traffic coming from the right has right of way.

It's true what you say that on junctions of roads of equal importance you have to give way to traffic coming from the right, but on the picture it's different kind of junction.

It's a T-junction and different rules apply for those.
In short - vehicles going straight have right of way. Vehicles coming from the bottom of T letter have to give way.

It doesn't change really anything in relation to OP question, but if car was coming opposite directing than red arrows, then according to what you said, he would have to give way to car going within green arrows, as that car would be coming from his right. That's not true, because if car was coming opposite direction than red arrows, he would still have right of way before green car, just because it's a T-junction.

Guy:Incognito

I know you say there are no stop signs but are there any road markings at all? Ive seen a few where the road coming out of the cul de sac has a solid white line across the laane and thd other roads broken white line continues out across making it a bend and giving it right of way.

K.Flyer

+1 on red arrows.
Another way of looking at it is... You must give way to any vehicle whos path you intend to cross.

CiniO

K.Flyer wrote: »

+1 on red arrows.
Another way of looking at it is... You must give way to any vehicle whos path you intend to cross.

That's mad statement.

There are certain rules who do you have to give right of way and who you don't.

It has nothing to do with crossing any path.

Chris_Heilong

usual cars going straight have right of way over cars turning.

NickDunne

Although the roads might be of equal importance, the red arrows is still the main thoroughfare in that situation.

CiniO

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

usual cars going straight have right of way over cars turning.

Usual, but not always.
So this is not a good point to base on.

K.Flyer

CiniO wrote: »

That's mad statement.

There are certain rules who do you have to give right of way and who you don't.

It has nothing to do with crossing any path.

Using the example given by the OP what exceptions are given that allows you to cross the path of a vehicle approaching from the right on an equal junction with no markings. In this example we take that the red car is travelling in a straight line.

CiniO

K.Flyer wrote: »

Using the example given by the OP what exceptions are given that allows you to cross the path of a vehicle approaching from the right on an equal junction with no markings. In this example we take that the red car is travelling in a straight line.

In this example none.

But in example below - who is crossing whose patch?
Who is turning and not going straight?

Both answer should be - red vehicle.

But red has to give way to blue vehicle.

Richard tea

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I know you say there are no stop signs but are there any road markings at all? Ive seen a few where the road coming out of the cul de sac has a solid white line across the laane and thd other roads broken white line continues out across making it a bend and giving it right of way.

No road markings. Its in a housing estate. Its just a pain the traffic ( green arrow ) never stops. Im used to slowing down to expect it now.

K.Flyer

If it is an Equal Junction with no roadmarkings or signage you are supposed to yield to the vehicles approaching from right in the same way as if there was a yield sign on each road (in the same manner of a roundabout).

Richard tea

This is the road which might show some more clarity.

CiniO

K.Flyer wrote: »

If it is an Equal Junction with no roadmarkings or signage you are supposed to yield to the vehicles approaching from right in the same way as if there was a yield sign on each road (in the same manner of a roundabout).

If there were yield signs on each road, then you would have to give way to vehicles coming from both left and right.
If there isn't yield signs and junction is of equal importance, then we give way only to traffic coming from the right - not from left.

It's completely different than roundabout, as on roundabout traffic can be only coming from the right.

chris445

CiniO wrote: »

In this example none.

But in example below - who is crossing whose patch?
Who is turning and not going straight?

Both answer should be - red vehicle.

But red has to give way to blue vehicle.

Have you got the colours backwards in this??? Surely its the blue car that has to give way???

CiniO

chris445 wrote: »

Have you got the colours backwards in this??? Surely its the blue car that has to give way???

Why?

chris445

You asked who is turning and not going straight. Then said the answer should be red. By the drawing red is not turning and is going straight. Also if I'm in the blue car and coming to a crossroads which i intend to cross over traffic to turn I would always give way to the traffic already on the road in both directions.

LookBehindYou

Joe,
Its the road you live on that you are asking about. I know that road and understand the dangers you have to watch out for.
YOU have the right of way (red arrows) because its a continous road. The green arrows go left off that road on the way in, and the green should yield to the red on the way out.

Basically,if anyone hits you, its their fault for not yielding to you BUT remember that you are on a Motorbike and you will end up the worst in a tip. So use caution there.

Richard tea

LookBehindYou wrote: »

Joe,
Its the road you live on that you are asking about. I know that road and understand the dangers you have to watch out for.
YOU have the right of way (red arrows) because its a continous road. The green arrows go left off that road on the way in, and the green should yield to the red on the way out.

Basically,if anyone hits you, its their fault for not yielding to you BUT remember that you are on a Motorbike and you will end up the worst in a tip. So use caution there.

Thats just it. In the car its not really an issue. On the bike it just takes one careless driver to send me on me arse.

K.Flyer

CiniO wrote: »

If there were yield signs on each road, then you would have to give way to vehicles coming from both left and right.
If there isn't yield signs and junction is of equal importance, then we give way only to traffic coming from the right - not from left.

It's completely different than roundabout, as on roundabout traffic can be only coming from the right.

I never said anything about yielding to traffic from the left. or about traffic approaching from the left.
And if there are 4 yield signs and 4 cars then each car will be yielding to the car to its right. And if there are no yield signs you treat the junction as if there were, its an equal junction you drew where each road is of equal importance.
In future, please read my posts carefully before commenting or quoting them.

born2bwild

CiniO wrote: »

Why?

It's dangerous for blue to cut across red's path?

Red has right of way - check the fourth bullet point down on page 121 of the Rules of the Road: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf

If you are turning right at a junction, the traffic coming straight through
the junction from the opposite direction has right of way.

Max Power1

chris445 wrote: »

Have you got the colours backwards in this??? Surely its the blue car that has to give way???

+1

Only moronic drivers (the kind that stop in the middle of roundabouts to let people out :rolleyes: ) would give way there as the red car.

Always give way to trafficc from your right

GreeBo

op, do the road names change at that junction?

you could argue that the "main" road continues around the corner, surely a culdesac can't be a main road...?

rocky

born2bwild wrote: »

It's dangerous for blue to cut across red's path?

Red has right of way - check the fourth bullet point down on page 121 of the Rules of the Road: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf

Did you skip the 2nd bullet point?

If you are at a junction where the roads are of equal importance, the
traffic on your right has right of way. You must let that traffic pass before
moving on.

rocky

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1

Only moronic drivers (the kind that stop in the middle of roundabouts to let people out :rolleyes: ) would give way there as the red car.

Always give way to trafficc from your right

Are you talking about Cinio's drawing? then you're contradicting yourself, blue is coming from red's right.

It's a junction of equal importance roads.

Tallon

I'm guessing someone hit you op? Or nearly did!

Richard tea

Tallon wrote: »

I'm guessing someone hit you op? Or nearly did!

No. Not even a near miss. I just didnt want to pull someone up on it before I was 100% in the right.

Sam Russell

In America, they have what they call a four-way stop. A cross road on a housing estate would have a STOP sign for each leg. All vehicles must stop, and then leave in the order they arrive. In the OP's case, it would be a three-way stop.

A good system.

Scrag

Give way to the right

born2bwild

rocky wrote: »

Did you skip the 2nd bullet point?

Yeah I must have.

Still the drawing is a bit deceptive - it looks as if the arrow going straight is already on the junction - if blue insisted on right of way there'd be a collision.

djimi

Sam Russell wrote: »

In America, they have what they call a four-way stop. A cross road on a housing estate would have a STOP sign for each leg. All vehicles must stop, and then leave in the order they arrive. In the OP's case, it would be a three-way stop.

A good system.

Not for this country its not. We cant even figure out how to use roundabouts ffs; not a hope a system like that work over here.

CiniO

K.Flyer wrote: »

I never said anything about yielding to traffic from the left. or about traffic approaching from the left.
And if there are 4 yield signs and 4 cars then each car will be yielding to the car to its right. And if there are no yield signs you treat the junction as if there were, its an equal junction you drew where each road is of equal importance.
In future, please read my posts carefully before commenting or quoting them.

My point was that yield sign means to give way to vehicle on the main road - whether they are coming from the left, right or opposite side (depending how main road goes).

You hardly can compare a junction of equal importance with junctions with yield signs.
On junction of equal importance, you have to give way to vehicles coming from your right.
On junction with yield sign you have to give way to vehicle from right and left.

CiniO

born2bwild wrote: »

It's dangerous for blue to cut across red's path?

Red has right of way - check the fourth bullet point down on page 121 of the Rules of the Road: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf

I think you completely misunderstood that point.

If you are turning right at a junction, the traffic coming straight through
the junction from the opposite direction has right of way.

It's about vehicle which are coming toward you (face to face).
If you turn right, then you have to give way to them.

It's not about vehicles coming in direction across on the junction.

Cookie_Monster

Sam Russell wrote: »

In America, they have what they call a four-way stop. A cross road on a housing estate would have a STOP sign for each leg. All vehicles must stop, and then leave in the order they arrive. In the OP's case, it would be a three-way stop.

A good system.

They have that in Ireland too you know...

CiniO

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

They have that in Ireland too you know...

STOP signs on all 4 ways onto the junction?

Such setup would be against the law, as STOP sign means that you are approaching a main road from secondary road.
In case of 4 stops from each way, this couldn't be possible.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

CiniO wrote: »

STOP signs on all 4 ways onto the junction?

Such setup would be against the law, as STOP sign means that you are approaching a main road from secondary road.
In case of 4 stops from each way, this couldn't be possible.

it is,

i found such a set up in Co. Meath or wicklow i think, a small 4 way junction all with stop signs.

CiniO

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

it is,

i found such a set up in Co. Meath or wicklow i think, a small 4 way junction all with stop signs.

That must be a fantasy of people who put up the signs.
But it's surely against the law.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

CiniO wrote: »

That must be a fantasy of people who put up the signs.
But it's surely against the law.

yup they were put there for the laugh, there were put there along with stop lines and printed "STOP" on the ground just to take the piss out of everyone..... or maybe they were country roads of equal importance and just for safety they needed people to stop to see where they are going etc.

wonski

CiniO wrote: »

That must be a fantasy of people who put up the signs.
But it's surely against the law.

What?

Nevermind, i see it now.

Hate those "against the law" lines from Motors forum anyway.
Whenever something is not in line with current law, it's against the law.

Quote:
Stop Sign.


6.—(1) The regulatory sign to indicate—


(a) that a road ahead is a major road, the traffic on which has the right of way over traffic approaching from the road on which the sign is provided, and


(b) that traffic so approaching the road ahead must halt before entering it,


shall consist of a red octagon with a white border and showing the word " Stop " in white letters.


(2) The dimensions and design of the sign to which this article applies shall be as set out in Section B of Part III and in Part VII of the First Schedule hereto.
End of quote


So yeah it looks like it is incorrect setup.

CiniO

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

yup they were put there for the laugh, there were put there along with stop lines and printed "STOP" on the ground just to take the piss out of everyone..... or maybe they were country roads of equal importance and just for safety they needed people to stop to see where they are going etc.

Take a look at wonski's quotation above.
When you approach the stop sign, you are informed that you are approaching the main road. If there is 4 stop signs, that can't be the case, so obviously there is something wrong.

Cookie_Monster

CiniO wrote: »

STOP signs on all 4 ways onto the junction?

yes

CiniO wrote: »

In case of 4 stops from each way, this couldn't be possible.

of course it's possible. Just because the meaning in the law says one thing doesn't mean it can't happen. Anyway signs are just signs and not road markings which take precedence.

(3) A stop line on a road shall indicate that a driver approaching the stop line by that road shall halt at the stop line.

So not in fact illegal at all, nothing mentioned about road importance etc

wonski

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yes


of course it's possible. Just because the meaning in the law says one thing doesn't mean it can't happen. Anyway signs are just signs and not road markings which take precedence.

(3) A stop line on a road shall indicate that a driver approaching the stop line by that road shall halt at the stop line.

So not in fact illegal at all, nothing mentioned about road importance etc

Read it again. There is AND before (3).
Kind of makes sense when you think about this.

the_syco

Richard tea wrote: »

Forgive the crude drawing. Just looking for who has the right of way in this situation. Its in a housing estate with no stop sign.

Possibly green. Google map link to said junction?

For example, on this clearly marked bend (it wasn't always so clearly marked!), the green arrow from your journey would be in the right. I have seen such markings in estates as well.

If the green arrows also go from a cul-de-sac, then the red arrows probably have right of way, but if the roads at 9 o'clock and 6 o'clock both lead somewhere (such as my above example), it could be argued that green arrow has right of way.

born2bwild

CiniO wrote: »

I think you completely misunderstood that point.



It's about vehicle which are coming toward you (face to face).
If you turn right, then you have to give way to them.

It's not about vehicles coming in direction across on the junction.

Yes, you're right.

_Kaiser_

CiniO wrote: »

In this example none.

But in example below - who is crossing whose patch?
Who is turning and not going straight?

Both answer should be - red vehicle.

But red has to give way to blue vehicle.

I'd take that situation as the red car having right of way with the blue having to yield as it's trying to join the road red is already on.

But this thread just shows why we have so many accidents when there's people with varying interpretations/opinions of what seems to me a fairly straightforward everyday situation.