Does Ireland really have a richer culture and history than America?

Speisekarte

I'm not so sure, I think it's a lot closer than many people would think.

snubbleste

No.

Ush1

Depends what you mean by "richer history"? They've had plenty of wars and sh*t.

corktina

the bottom of my fridge has a richer culture than the USA

mike65

Define history.

BGozIE

Define USA.

JohnDee

mike65 wrote: »

Define history.

It's one damn thing after another

thecatspjs

How can any country have a richer culture/history than another one?

gobnaitolunacy

So the native American cultures are somehow not up to scratch?

Find the assumption that America is somehow culture-less as it was a 'recent discovery' by white fellas to be insulting.

snubbleste

What is the 'native american' tribes like the Cherokee view on the issue?

Rhys Essien

Do they celebrate their native American Indian culture much?

Speisekarte

mike65 wrote: »

Define history.

A written record of past events.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Why do you ask? Did somebody say it did? Does anyone really care?

listermint

I think we've had enough of people pissing on 'cultures' this week tbh.

This thread is making me tired.

Speisekarte

CJC999 wrote: »

Why do you ask? Did somebody say it did? Does anyone really care?

Just trying to make Tuesday morning a bit more interesting.

Reekwind

Why are the two related? America is unquestionably a cultural hotspot of the world (as witnessed by the quality of its endless TV, music and film output) but it wasn't churning out gilded Bibles 1,500 years ago. Snobbishness aside, there's only the most tenuous of links between history and culture

And yes, comparing the "richness" of two country's cultures is rarely a productive task

corktina

oh ****, is it tuesday already?

Speisekarte

Reekwind wrote: »

Why are the two related? America is unquestionably a cultural hotspot of the world (as witnessed by the quality of its endless TV, music and film output) but it wasn't churning out gilded Bibles 1,500 years ago. Snobbishness aside, there's only the most tenuous of links between history and culture

And yes, comparing the "richness" of two country's cultures is rarely a productive task

Neither are most discussions on boards, yet here we are.

gobnaitolunacy

OSI wrote: »

America's current native population is barely 250 years old. Ireland's is thousands. Take a guess.

So who was living there when Columbus blundered into it?
Fairies and pixies?

Speisekarte

OSI wrote: »

America's current native population is barely 250 years old. Ireland's is thousands. Take a guess.

But how much of ancient Ireland is still alive in modern alive in modern Itish culture or even known about.

gobnaitolunacy

OSI wrote: »

CURRENT native population. The Indians have been displaced as the native population.

The Native Americans haven't gone away you know.

The white man didn't liquidate them all.

I Heart Internet

The prevalent culture in the United States of America is essentially a European one transplanted to North America. While the USA pays lip-service to the culture of native american peoples, it is just that - lip-service.

So, effectively, the culture is no more than 400 years old (max) rather than the 1,000s of years of native american culture.

While the USA's culture has been globalised (it is an attractive brand which is easy to sell) and is very popular around the world, Ireland has a deeper pool of culture from which to draw, I guess.

gobnaitolunacy

OSI wrote: »

No, but they are no longer the dominant native population.

Meaning?
Just because you don't hold the reins of power your culture counts for nothing?

How would that statement sound if you were talking about, say, 18th or 19th cent. Ireland?

Geomy

OSI wrote: »

No, but they are no longer the dominant native population.

They are the natives,so that makes them the dominant native population.

Did you ever hear the Iron Maiden song "Run to the hills"

Do a search for on youtube. ..

gramar

Ireland was first populated around 10000 years ago and has been through the stone age, bronze age, iron age, we've had St. Patrick, Vikings, The Normans the English occupation, The Famine, 1916 and a whole lot more. We have physical legacies in the shape of Dolmens, Newgrange etc that pre-date even Egyptian pyramids. We have had Kings and Queens, castles, towers, churches going back over a thousand years. Rich mythology and folklore.

Modern American history is very brief by comparison and I'd say compared to the native Indians we probably have more to offer.

SEPT 23 1989

Ireland has a much richer History

gobnaitolunacy

gramar wrote: »

Ireland was first populated around 10000 years ago and has been through the stone age, bronze age, iron age, we've had St. Patrick, Vikings, The Normans the English occupation, The Famine, 1916 and a whole lot more. We have physical legacies in the shape of Dolmens, Newgrange etc that pre-date even Egyptian pyramids. We have had Kings and Queens, castles, towers, churches going back over a thousand years. Rich mythology and folklore.

Modern American history is very brief by comparison and I'd say compared to the native Indians we probably have more to offer.

Can't compare like with like, Mayans, Aztecs and Incas put up structures that would make Newgrange look like a bundle of boulders fcuked together.

gramar

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Can't compare like with like, Mayans, Aztecs and Incas put up structures that would make Newgrange look like a bundle of boulders fcuked together.

I was comparing Ireland to North America but I take your point.

fishy fishy

what exactly comes to mind when you think of American culture now? They do have a rich indian and ethnic culture, but sadly it has been over-run by the "new culture" mcdonalds, hollywood, etc. Thats not culture. They tend to not talk about their actual culture and how it got to be the place it is.

So I wouldn't say Ireland or any other country has a deeper culture - I would just say its more open.

(north America - not south who is steeped in culture)

crockholm

Ireland has never had a world encompassing culture,the USA does. As for comparing and contrasting.......I don't see any point,both are distinct and like comparing apples to oranges.

crockholm

gramar wrote: »

I was comparing Ireland to North America but I take your point.

Modern day Mexico is in North America,so that brings the Mayans and Aztecs into it;)

CrabRevolution

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Can't compare like with like, Mayans, Aztecs and Incas put up structures that would make Newgrange look like a bundle of boulders fcuked together.

Thats most likely because those structures were built 2-4'000 years after Newgrange. A lot of people dont seem to understand just how shockingly old Newgrange is.

Suryavarman

OSI wrote: »

America's current native population is barely 250 years old. Ireland's is thousands. Take a guess.

Where on Earth are you getting 250 years old out of? St. Augustine, Florida was founded by Spanish explorers in 1565 (448 years ago) and is considered to be the oldest European established settlement in the USA. So you're out by a good 200 years in your estimate.

Also worth pointing out that America's native population are the Native Americans and not people of European descent.

An Coilean

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Can't compare like with like, Mayans, Aztecs and Incas put up structures that would make Newgrange look like a bundle of boulders fcuked together.

They did, but several thousand years later.

Wacker The Attacker

OSI wrote: »

No, but they are no longer the dominant native population.

All those german ex pats are.

keithclancy

America as a continent has a lot of recorded and interesting history.

The interchangeable "United States of America" has less as they all came from Europe/Africa/Asia anyway.

donegal_road

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Do they celebrate their native American Indian culture much?

they sure do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDh0pZrVLA0

Paramite Pie

OSI wrote: »

America's current native population is barely 250 years old. Ireland's is thousands. Take a guess.

Yeah, because the average Irish person is even aware of much of our history..:rolleyes:

All in all, our druids and folklore are about as relevant to modern Ireland as Navajo or Iroquois rituals are to Wall Street Bankers, ie not at all. Sad but true.:(

Culture isn't measured by who existed first.. our modern culture would be not recognisable to the ancient Irish. Most of you would be bashing Gaeilge in other threads and talking about how **** our country is. Part-time patriots eh?:P

Ireland has much more history, yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean we have more culture. Compare like with like, modern with modern. We're so over exposed to US culture that we don't even notice it half the time. And much of our culture is dead or dying, and modern Irish culture is redefining itself all the time, as are other cultures.

Reekwind

OSI wrote: »

CURRENT native population. The Indians have been displaced as the native population.

Which is a ridiculously disingenuous exercise in semantics

The Native Americans (clue in the name) have not been "displaced as the native population" because that doesn't make sense. 'Native' in the sense that you are using it (X is a native of Y) is applied to the individual. When discussing peoples then 'native' is uniformly understood to mean 'aborigine' or 'indigenous'. It's nonsense to ask whether, say, Irish-Americans are native to the Americas

19543261

You have to be able to measure culture if you are going to compare its worth with another - and how do you do that? If you created some kind of parameters for doing such a thing, what's the use?

I think this thread is more about making ourselves feel good.

Nationalism and identifying with people who no longer live are curious things, imo, considering how powerful they can be.

Reindeer

America's culture is certainly rich and varied. Not only are there still Native Americans like Cherokees(of which I am one), you also have a rich history of all those Europeans that arrived to it's shores as well. These Europeans also shared their enlightenment as they spread and settled, and still do to this day. With 300 million people, millions of which not even born on American shores, it is difficult at best to paint the entire country, let alone the continent, with a wide brush. If you want any real discussion, you'll need to be more specific. Well, either that or move this to another forum.

BTW, this Cherokee is of the opinion that the current stock of Americans, barring those that are American Indian of descent, are most certainly not natives.

Seaneh

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

So who was living there when Columbus blundered into it?
Fairies and pixies?

Most of those people were murdered, the rest were rounded up and put into what were effectively massive concentration camps and left to die. The ones who survived have been again moved into areas in the middle of nowhere and in the middle of the last century had the federal government come in and destroy their livestock.

The USA does not celebrate or even give a **** about Native American culture, the fact that they force it into tiny areas in the middle of ****ing nowhere kind of proves that.

Wibbs

crockholm wrote: »

Ireland has never had a world encompassing culture,the USA does.

Well I would say it's more that Europe by proxy in the case of the US has the world encompassing culture. It was Europe that "won" the race to be the dominant world culture. Will it be displaced? Hard to say, I suspect not. For a long while yet anyway.

Reindeer wrote: »

BTW, this Cherokee is of the opinion that the current stock of Americans, barring those that are American Indian of descent, are most certainly not natives.

Yea but how long does it take? I mean on current theories(which I have more than a few doubts about) the place was empty of humans 20,000 years ago. Plus given the deep similarities of (one of the first settlers) Clovis stone culture with northern European stone culture Europeans may have got there before or at a similar time that Asians made it across the Bering. Europeans may have been among the very first "Americans". Pigeons insert cat if that's ever proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Frank Lee Midere

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

The Native Americans haven't gone away you know.

The white man didn't liquidate them all.

The Anglo Saxon man didn't. Nor here.

Clearly given the title he meant the US - and modern US culture. I doubt you would regale us with your Cherkokee knowledge in any case.

Frank Lee Midere

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Can't compare like with like, Mayans, Aztecs and Incas put up structures that would make Newgrange look like a bundle of boulders fcuked together.

In South America and much later. The Aztecs were 14th century AD. Which is 6 thousand years after new grange. The Mayans were closer starting at 2,000 BC. The incas were also effectively modern.

gobnaitolunacy

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The Anglo Saxon man didn't. Nor here.

Clearly given the title he meant the US - and modern US culture. I doubt you would regale us with your Cherkokee knowledge in any case.

There is a Cherokee posting on this thread, you can ask him anything you may want to know.

North American, or if you want to nit pick about specifics, United States of America's culture does not begin and end with Big Macs, cowboys and Ford cars.

Reekwind

Wibbs wrote: »

Well I would say it's more that Europe by proxy in the case of the US has the world encompassing culture. It was Europe that "won" the race to be the dominant world culture. Will it be displaced? Hard to say, I suspect not. For a long while yet anyway

In which case the dominant culture in the world today is arguably Greek/Roman. Which seems slightly silly

Frank Lee Midere

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

There is a Cherokee posting on this thread, you can ask him anything you may want to know.

North American, or if you want to nit pick about specifics, United States of America's culture does not begin and end with Big Macs, cowboys and Ford cars.

Clearly I know far more than someone who thinks the Incas or Aztecs were co-existent with Newgrange.

fishy fishy

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Yeah, because the average Irish person is even aware of much of our history..:rolleyes:

All in all, our druids and folklore are about as relevant to modern Ireland as Navajo or Iroquois rituals are to Wall Street Bankers, ie not at all. Sad but true.:(

Culture isn't measured by who existed first.. our modern culture would be not recognisable to the ancient Irish. Most of you would be bashing Gaeilge in other threads and talking about how **** our country is. Part-time patriots eh?:P

Ireland has much more history, yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean we have more culture. Compare like with like, modern with modern. We're so over exposed to US culture that we don't even notice it half the time. And much of our culture is dead or dying, and modern Irish culture is redefining itself all the time, as are other cultures.

what american culture are we overexposed to, that we don't even notice half the time - can you elaborate on this?

gobnaitolunacy

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Clearly I know far more than someone who thinks the Incas or Aztecs were co-existent with Newgrange.

Did I say they co-existed anywhere?

Self praise is no praise.

April O Neill

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

So the native American cultures are somehow not up to scratch?

Find the assumption that America is somehow culture-less as it was a 'recent discovery' by white fellas to be insulting.

Exactly. I bet there's plenty of Native American history. And we'll probably never know the half of it.