Protein

barrymac20

Hi all. I started running a few weeks back. Training for Dublin marathon.
Any opinions on protein supplements. Some saying i should start taking whey protein to help with muscle recovery. Others saying id be better with the high 5 4to1 (carbs to protein).

my muscles have been quite sore so Im thinking it would be no harm taking something but i want to start with the right stuff.

What's the general consensus?

RayCun

Chocolate milk. Protein, fat, and simple carbs - recovery drink of the gods

Ososlo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056857983

thread on this a few months back with suggestions on foods you can take to help increase your intake.
I struggle to get my requirements from my food as I'm vegetarian so supplement my intake with soya protein shake if I feel I need it.

opus

Ososlo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056857983

thread on this a few months back with suggestions on foods you can take to help increase your intake.
I struggle to get my requirements from my food as I'm vegetarian so supplement my intake with soya protein if I feel I need it.

Veggie as well here, I have a protein shake with b'fast a few times a week just in case I'm not getting enough from food. Can't really say if it makes much difference but I've been reasonably injury free for ages so if it isn't broke....

ronnie085

barrymac20 wrote: »

Hi all. I started running a few weeks back. Training for Dublin marathon.
Any opinions on protein supplements. Some saying i should start taking whey protein to help with muscle recovery. Others saying id be better with the high 5 4to1 (carbs to protein).

my muscles have been quite sore so Im thinking it would be no harm taking something but i want to start with the right stuff.

What's the general consensus?

My pet hate, you could waste your money on protein supplements, the marketing men did a great job, eat a half decent diet, as raycun says a drop of choc milk or just ordinary milk to treat yourself every now and again and you'll be grand, otherwise you'll have v expensive pee

barrymac20

Thanks for comments so far.

Id be interested to hear peoples thoughts regarding the difference between high 5 4to1 and normal straight whey protein. And, assuming Im going to take a supplement, which one is the best for long distance running recovery.

ASIMON0V

barrymac20 wrote: »

Thanks for comments so far.

Id be interested to hear peoples thoughts regarding the difference between high 5 4to1 and normal straight whey protein. And, assuming Im going to take a supplement, which one is the best for long distance running recovery.

in that instance you would favour the carb + protein mix of a recovery product over straight protein - but check the labelling as they can have aspartame etc. in them. There might be cleaner ways to get your carbs.

barrymac20

ASIMON0V wrote: »

in that instance you would favour the carb + protein mix of a recovery product over straight protein - but check the labelling as they can have aspartame etc. in them. There might be cleaner ways to get your carbs.

Thanks. What would be the reasoning behind choosing that one over the straight protein?

Krusty_Clown

If you started running a few weeks back and are planning to run DCM, then the pain in your legs has nothing to do with a lack of protein. It is more likely caused by the steep increase in effort and the excessive levels of stress you are putting on your legs. Protein won't fix that. There aren't any miracle cures. Just eat a balanced diet and stay injury free.

ASIMON0V

barrymac20 wrote: »

Thanks. What would be the reasoning behind choosing that one over the straight protein?

Because you need to refuel on glycogen from carbohydrate as well as take protein on board. I'd imagine the sports nutrition companies source the cheapest form of carbohydrate possible - hence looking for cleaner sources from real food. Krusty has it right through - unless you are piling on session after session and struggling to consume enough protein from your regular diet - spending money on this stuff is not the answer!

woodchopper

RayCun wrote: »

Chocolate milk. Protein, fat, and simple carbs - recovery drink of the gods

Since when does drinking sugar aid recovery?

RayCun

1985

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4YTB5FZeHQ

(sugar is a simple carbohydrate so a quick way to restore depleted glycogen, useful immediately after a hard session)

woodchopper

RayCun wrote: »

1985

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4YTB5FZeHQ

(sugar is a simple carbohydrate so a quick way to restore depleted glycogen, useful immediately after a hard session)

Ah sure why not have a big bowl of frosties or coco pops with full fat milk. A perfect mixture carbs, protein and fat!

Or a big pizza filled with Italian ham. Again a perfect mixture of carbs, protein and fat.

And people wonder why marathoners runners at the 3 hour level are fat

woodchopper

woodchopper wrote: »

Ah sure why not have a big bowl of frosties or coco pops with full fat milk. A perfect mixture carbs, protein and fat!

Or a big pizza filled with Italian ham. Again a perfect mixture of carbs, protein and fat.

And people wonder why marathoners runners at the 3 hour level are fat

Not sure about the frosties, but spot on with the pizza. Know a couple of ultramarathon guys who swear by it. The fact that it tastes great is a bonus. When I hear of protein and whey, I kinda think I'll leave that stuff to the pumping iron fanatics.

HelenAnne

I don't mean to sound all Luddite and old-school and like some one who doesn't appreciate advances in sports nutrition etc, but I really think at the beginning you're probably not going to be running enough to need supplements / gels etc. I think a normal, healthy (ish) diet should be fine until you really start honing your performance. the best way at the beginning to improve your running is just to run more and increase your distance. I am certainly not setting myself up as an authority (I won't do that until I'm selected for Rio!) but as an average runner who's been running a few years and done a good few half marathons / longish miles in training, even as a vegetarian I haven't seemed to need anything beyond water, the odd jelly sweet and normal meals. Obviously do what suits you, but it might be worth waiting to see if the leg pains settle down once you're more used to it before spending too much? best of luck and enjoy your training!

RayCun

woodchopper wrote: »

Ah sure why not have a big bowl of frosties or coco pops with full fat milk. A perfect mixture carbs, protein and fat!
Or a big pizza filled with Italian ham. Again a perfect mixture of carbs, protein and fat.

Most people would have trouble eating a big pizza straight after a long run.
Chocolate milk as recovery aid

woodchopper wrote: »

And people wonder why marathoners runners at the 3 hour level are fat

Weak
A glass of chocolate milk after a session is not going to be the difference between fat and slim. But immediately after exercise your glycogen is depleted, eating soon afterwards will speed your recovery.

woodchopper

RayCun wrote: »

Most people would have trouble eating a big pizza straight after a long run.
Chocolate milk as recovery aid



Weak
A glass of chocolate milk after a session is not going to be the difference between fat and slim. But immediately after exercise your glycogen is depleted, eating soon afterwards will speed your recovery.

Im sorry you are right

Toblerone1978

RayCun wrote: »

Chocolate milk. Protein, fat, and simple carbs - recovery drink of the gods

I often heard this being mentioned but why chocolate milk? I'm not questioning your advice, just curious but why chocolate milk? Why not strawberry milk, banana milk or even unflavoured milk?

RayCun

Chocolate tastes nicer?

Clearlier

RayCun wrote: »

Most people would have trouble eating a big pizza straight after a long run.
Chocolate milk as recovery aid



Weak
A glass of chocolate milk after a session is not going to be the difference between fat and slim. But immediately after exercise your glycogen is depleted, eating soon afterwards will speed your recovery.

Just read the abstract. It basically said that chocolate milk is a better recovery aid than drinks such as Lucozade sport.

The difference between the two is that lucozade sport has carbohydrate and chocolate milk has fat and protein as well as carbohydrate.

Wonder what would happen if you got rid of the carbohydrate altogether?

HelenAnne

This is not a protein question, but I thought since everyone is talking about carbs & glycogen etc too that someone here might be able to answer it. And it might be helpful to the OP since he's looking into marathon nutrition too.

(Sorry for hijacking OP).

As I said upthread, despite doing sort of long-ish miles sometimes (got up to 19/20/21 last summer/autumn & did 17 last weekend) I am still a gel virgin! I'm sort of afraid to try them as it seems to take very little to upset my stomach equilibrium. I'm usually fine when just running but my stomach is always in bits before races so I've never risked a gel.

However, if I was thinking of doing a marathon I'd probably need to get over that. I was wondering, has anyone tried shot blocks (because it's the consistency of gels I really don't like the look of) and are gels / shot bloks etc much better than just normal jelly sweets? I had an Aldi jelly sweet once in a half marathon & it did give me a boost and didn't make me feel sick, but maybe it's not enough for a full marathon. I know my dad ran marathons in the eighties with just water and a few barley sugars, but that was the past & the past is another country etc etc!

I'm sort of thinking if it ain't broke etc ... but everyone says I probably couldn't do a marathon on just water (& I don't usually even drink much water when running).

Advice welcome!

statss

Hey Helen,

I have bad stomach issues but have had no problem digesting 2/3 of these gels on a run

http://ie.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/ener-gel/10530821.html

clear thinking

Clearlier wrote: »

Just read the abstract. It basically said that chocolate milk is a better recovery aid than drinks such as Lucozade sport.

The difference between the two is that lucozade sport has carbohydrate and chocolate milk has fat and protein as well as carbohydrate.

Wonder what would happen if you got rid of the carbohydrate altogether?

The carbs are needed as they trigger a bit of insulin which will help the protein help you recover, the insulin will act like an anabolic steroid. No carbs means expensive energy wasting and poorer recovery. After exercise this insulin process workes great - its the one time you can horse in skittles without excess sugar being converted to your michelin storage zones (i.e. fat).

Thats why you see those gym guys lash in 60g of protein followed by multiple -ose carbs.

Enduro

HelenAnne, you don't need to use gels for a marathon. Plenty of people fall hook line and sinker for the marketing campaigns and think they do, but you don't. It sounds like in your particular case that there is a strong chance that they will do more harm than good.

As it happens, shot blocks taste pretty good. But then so do jelly beans, and jelly beans are a lot cheaper.

Gels, shotblocks etc are just expensive sugar hits.

clear thinking

HelenAnne wrote: »

This is not a protein question, but I thought since everyone is talking about carbs & glycogen etc too that someone here might be able to answer it. And it might be helpful to the OP since he's looking into marathon nutrition too.

(Sorry for hijacking OP).

As I said upthread, despite doing sort of long-ish miles sometimes (got up to 19/20/21 last summer/autumn & did 17 last weekend) I am still a gel virgin! I'm sort of afraid to try them as it seems to take very little to upset my stomach equilibrium. I'm usually fine when just running but my stomach is always in bits before races so I've never risked a gel.

However, if I was thinking of doing a marathon I'd probably need to get over that. I was wondering, has anyone tried shot blocks (because it's the consistency of gels I really don't like the look of) and are gels / shot bloks etc much better than just normal jelly sweets? I had an Aldi jelly sweet once in a half marathon & it did give me a boost and didn't make me feel sick, but maybe it's not enough for a full marathon. I know my dad ran marathons in the eighties with just water and a few barley sugars, but that was the past & the past is another country etc etc!

I'm sort of thinking if it ain't broke etc ... but everyone says I probably couldn't do a marathon on just water (& I don't usually even drink much water when running).

Advice welcome!

You should practise a few variations on upcoming runs.

You can always stop to eat / take gels - some discomfort is probably from swallowing air, stopping for 10 seconds avoids that.

Remember you are a machine (!) and you can just hurl it back out if it doesnt agree and then eat something else.

HelenAnne

Thanks everyone. I think maybe I will try experimenting. I might try a gel on my next long run, and I will always have the jelly sweet / nothing at all option to fall back on if I don't like it.

It's good to hear what works for others.

is there anything in commercial gels etc that i wouldn't get in a jelly sweet though?

clear thinking

Some have caffiene in them, if you re used to coffee its probably ok.

ThisRegard

HelenAnne wrote: »

I will always have the jelly sweet / nothing at all option to fall back on if I don't like it.

I find the little mini bags of jellies are great, the softer the better. Can't remember what I was doing, I think it was Run the Line, and I found an opened packed of the jelly shots in my waist bag and thought great, yum yum. And while they were indeed yum yum, with a dry mouth it was like chewing an old boot.

elefant

RayCun wrote: »

Chocolate tastes nicer?

Nothing tastes better than beautiful milk

ThisRegard

elefant wrote: »

Nothing tastes better than beautiful milk

Chocolate milk does after a tough run !