Do tenants pay rates and water charges?

Richard Dower

Here is another section to this RAS contract, this is news to me


The tenant agrees with the landlord:

To pay all rates and water charges (if any) and refuse charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement.



^ hold on! - i thought it was the LL responsibility to pay the household charge and the upcoming water rates? , since i am not the homeowner and jut renting how is it my responsibility to pay these charges?

miller50841

Water charges are on you but the LL will find a way to add the property tax to your rent if not already a premium on your rent as is,

djimi

Why would you think the landlord is responsible for paying for your water usage?

bren2002

Richard Dower wrote: »

Here is another section to this RAS contract, this is news to me


The tenant agrees with the landlord:

To pay all rates and water charges (if any) and refuse charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement.



^ hold on! - i thought it was the LL responsibility to pay the household charge and the upcoming water rates? , since i am not the homeowner and jut renting how is it my responsibility to pay these charges?

I would imagine because you are using the water. Seems fair enough to me.

Property tax is a different issue, and completely the landlords responsibility. This is written into the legislation.

The_Chap

djimi wrote: »

Why would you think the landlord is responsible for paying for your water usage?

+1

Maybe they should pay for electric and gas too?

Richard Dower

Well where i am for 10 years i never had to pay for water........

The_Chap

Richard Dower wrote: »

Well where i am for 10 years i never had to pay for water........

Water charges are only just being introduced in Ireland, meters are going to installed in every household

Richard Dower

The_Chap wrote: »

Water charges are only just being introduced in Ireland, meters are going to installed in every household

My point is, since i am not the homeowner he should be paying not me, gas and electricity are different....unless water is now considered a utility like gas and electricity.

I thought water came under the same designation as the household charge.

djimi

Richard Dower wrote: »

Well where i am for 10 years i never had to pay for water........

Nobody has being paying for water up until now. It will be metered and you will of course pay for what you use.

Other charges may not be directly billable to you (at least with a normal tenancy they are not) but you will end up paying them through rent increases one way or another.

djimi

Richard Dower wrote: »

My point is, since i am not the homeowner he should be paying not me, gas and electricity are different....unless water is now considered a utility like gas and electricity.

I thought water came under the same designation as the household charge.

Water will be considered a utility. You will pay for what you use.

Gatling

Richard Dower wrote: »

My point is, since i am not the homeowner he should be paying not me, gas and electricity are different....unless water is now considered a utility like gas and electricity.

I thought water came under the same designation as the household charge.

No its soon to be a metered utility its been news for the last few years ,
All houses are getting ,meters unless you live in an apartment where you will pay differently

The_Chap

djimi wrote: »

Water will be considered a utility. You will pay for what you use.

Is the correct answer, this had been the case in UK for years, fresh water supply, waste water and surface water all charged as a utility

Richard Dower

The_Chap wrote: »

Is the correct answer, this had been the case in UK for years, fresh water supply, waste water and surface water all charged as a utility

feks sake!....no hour long showers, i love me showers.......:(

djimi

Think of the electricity that you will be saving also!

Richard Dower

is the LL then responsible for installing these new toilets which use much less water?

Gatling

Richard Dower wrote: »

feks sake!....no hour long showers, i love me showers.......:(

You can still have your long showers just expect your wallet to be a little lighter

djimi

Richard Dower wrote: »

is the LL then responsible for installing these new toilets which use much less water?

No more than they are responsible for installing energy saving lightbulbs...

As far as I know there will be a certain allowance each month before you start getting charged, presumable to cover the basics such as showers and toilets (with reasonable usage).

Richard Dower

djimi wrote: »

No more than they are responsible for installing energy saving lightbulbs...

As far as I know there will be a certain allowance each month before you start getting charged, presumable to cover the basics such as showers and toilets (with reasonable usage).

I thought the low evergy bulbs were apart of the BER rating

[i feel like i'm in school......]

The_Chap

Richard Dower wrote: »

I thought the low evergy bulbs were apart of the BER rating

[i feel like i'm in school......]

If they are installed yes, tell me if a bulb blows do you ring the landlord?

Richard Dower

The_Chap wrote: »

If they are installed yes, tell me if a bulb blows do you ring the landlord?

no...but shirley when you move in they should be preinstalled....

The_Chap

Richard Dower wrote: »

no...but shirley when you move in they should be preinstalled....

If the BER is calculated with them installed yes I agree, but the BER is calculated based on what is installed at the time of the inspection

djimi

Richard Dower wrote: »

no...but shirley when you move in they should be preinstalled....

Im not aware of any legislation saying that a landlord is obliged to provide energy saving lightbulbs at the commencement of a tenancy (I might be wrong about that but its not something I have ever come across).

Victor

Is this a lease issued by the landlord or the council?

Richard Dower wrote: »

To pay all rates ... relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement.

Note that there are no rates on residential property and Local Property Tax is not the same as rates.

Richard Dower

Victor wrote: »

Is this a lease issued by the landlord or the council?
Note that there are no rates on residential property and Local Property Tax is not the same as rates.

the council....just reading through it, bit above my pay grade......:o

jd

Richard Dower wrote: »

is the LL then responsible for installing these new toilets which use much less water?

You mean the ones with a brick in the cistern

miller50841

Water meters have been installed in a lot of parts of Ireland for years.

Have a farm house in Sligo with water charges last 10 years at least.

gaius c

Richard Dower wrote: »

is the LL then responsible for installing these new toilets which use much less water?

That's like asking if landlords are required to upgrade their properties to a BER of A.

No, of course not.

djimi

miller50841 wrote: »

Water meters have been installed in a lot of parts of Ireland for years.

Have a farm house in Sligo with water charges last 10 years at least.

Who issues the water charges?

miller50841

djimi wrote: »

Who issues the water charges?

Veolia same as Luas

djimi

On behalf of a county council or is it some sort of private arrangement?

StillWaters

djimi wrote: »

On behalf of a county council or is it some sort of private arrangement?

A group water scheme I presume.

cmssjone

Richard Dower wrote: »

no...but shirley when you move in they should be preinstalled....

Don't call me Shirley...

ted1

miller50841 wrote: »

Water meters have been installed in a lot of parts of Ireland for years.

Have a farm house in Sligo with water charges last 10 years at least.

Some farms are treated as commercial premises because by their nature farms use a lot of water and are commercial enterprise

Pawwed Rig

Richard Dower wrote: »

old on! - i thought it was the LL responsibility to pay the household charge and the upcoming water rates? , since i am not the homeowner and jut renting how is it my responsibility to pay these charges?

Property tax and NPPR are not considered rates for some reason (although NPPR seem to meet every definition of rates I have ever come across Revenue have decided they are not) so are the liability of the landlord.

Re the water charges you are of course liable to pay for it yourself
Here is a phrase you will hear over the coming years as the water charges are introduced based on usage
If it's yellow let it mellow
If it's brown Flush it down

conorhal

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Property tax and NPPR are not considered rates for some reason (although NPPR seem to meet every definition of rates I have ever come across Revenue have decided they are not) so are the liability of the landlord.

Re the water charges you are of course liable to pay for it yourself
Here is a phrase you will hear over the coming years as the water charges are introduced based on usage
If it's yellow let it mellow
If it's brown Flush it down

Which makes you wonder why a council lease would even mention rates, which have not existed for decades?
*pops on tin-foil hat*

What are those bastards provisionally planning for?

Mrs OBumble

Richard Dower wrote: »

feks sake!....no hour long showers, i love me showers.......:(

And that sort of comment is exactly why water metering is a good idea!

You can have as many long showers as you want.

But you need to balance up the cost of them relative to other things you love, and decide what you want to use your resources on.

Tigger

conorhal wrote: »

Which makes you wonder why a council lease would even mention rates, which have not existed for decades?
*pops on tin-foil hat*

What are those bastards provisionally planning for?

rates never went away they were just set to zero
i fear they may come back

murphaph

conorhal wrote: »

Which makes you wonder why a council lease would even mention rates, which have not existed for decades?

It's simply because the council are using a standard lease agreement which always contain this clause (in case rates are ever re-introduced it makes sense for a landlord to leave such clauses in).

Richard Dower

murphaph wrote: »

It's simply because the council are using a standard lease agreement which always contain this clause (in case rates are ever re-introduced it makes sense for a landlord to leave such clauses in).

Was told there was nothing unusual about the contract i signed, same one they've been using for years.

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

On behalf of a county council or is it some sort of private arrangement?

On behalf of the council- its been that way for most of the last decade.
And no- its not a group scheme.
A lot of the local famers and home owners, have sank their own wells and pump their own water to avoid these charges (something I imagine will become a cottage industry in the rest of the country over the next couple of years).

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

It will be metered and you will of course pay for what you use.

Multi unit dwellings- for example, a house that has been subdivided into 3 or 4 separate dwellings or a small apartment complex, will not be metered, but will be charged on a per-dwelling basis. Its considered too difficult to meter these units- particularly as several may be off the one water source.

In cases like this- you could argue that the proposed standing charge for the meter, shouldn't apply (good luck with this one though!)

murphaph

The_Conductor wrote: »

Multi unit dwellings- for example, a house that has been subdivided into 3 or 4 separate dwellings or a small apartment complex, will not be metered, but will be charged on a per-dwelling basis. Its considered too difficult to meter these units- particularly as several may be off the one water source.

In cases like this- you could argue that the proposed standing charge for the meter, shouldn't apply (good luck with this one though!)

My building in Berlin was like this until recently BUT we had one single meter for the whole building and the bill was divided based on floor area of the individual dwellings (like all management charges).

We have since installed (at our own expense of €600 per dwelling) individual meters in each unit. It is really quite amazing how much water you use in such a short time frame. Our meter went in about 3 months ago and we've used 15,000L since then...that's 15 tonnes of water in 3 months! It certainly makes you more water aware.

Del2005

The_Conductor wrote: »

On behalf of the council- its been that way for most of the last decade.
And no- its not a group scheme.

Weren't the charges for farms using water brought in at the same time schools had to start paying?

The_Conductor wrote: »

A lot of the local famers and home owners, have sank their own wells and pump their own water to avoid these charges (something I imagine will become a cottage industry in the rest of the country over the next couple of years).

I can see this being clamped down on soon. People taking water from aquifers or underground rivers are causing big issues in other countries and we won't be too far behind.

testicle

miller50841 wrote: »

Water meters have been installed in a lot of parts of Ireland for years.

Have a farm house in Sligo with water charges last 10 years at least.

Businesses pay water charges, have done for years.

The_Conductor

Del2005 wrote: »

Weren't the charges for farms using water brought in at the same time schools had to start paying?

Yes- however Veolia metered every single property- irrespective of whether was farm or commercial use- on the basis, better be safe than sorry- it was then up to residents to get their property signed off on for a waiver. In many cases, for purely arbitrary reasons- inspectors were dispatched by the council to check up on people's claims, and waivers refused for no good given reason.

Del2005 wrote: »

I can see this being clamped down on soon. People taking water from aquifers or underground rivers are causing big issues in other countries and we won't be too far behind.

Good luck with this. People have had their own wells forever- trying to stop them will be another turf-cutting issue that won't have any winners.

The_Conductor

testicle wrote: »

Businesses pay water charges, have done for years.

In Sligo in particular- the issue has been meters being installed everywhere- without any cognisance of whether it was a commercial enterpries, a farm, a house on a farm without any non-residential water usage, or indeed in some cases that made the media- forests- without any dwellings, animals or non-rainfall water usage whatsoever. Veolia went along the lines of meter everything- and if its not applicable, let them complain.