EU votes to ban e-cigs! Tobacco to stay legal!

Pique

What. The. Fukk ??
Heres the depressing news.

liger

Must be costing the exchequer too much money

Ionised

Is anyone really suprised?

When it comes to profit, bribery and corruption I imagine the EU is no different to any 'normal' government.

Perhaps a campaign to reclassify cigarettes as a 'medicine'...no less daft than what is proposed.

Pique

Anyone else considering stocking up on a shed load of liquid and flavours to make your own before this comes into effect?

The hardware can't really be banned (nothing illegal about a bong for example) so that's ok.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have." - Adolf Hitler

grindle

Black market'll be fine for me. Keeping 18 litres of nic base around the gaff for future consumption wouldn't go down too well.

naughtysmurf

Don't really know much about how the EU works voting wise but did our Irish MEP's vote on this and do we know how they voted?

rui1000

I never got any parcel stopped in customs from China

Pique

grindle wrote: »

Black market'll be fine for me. Keeping 18 litres of nic base around the gaff for future consumption wouldn't go down too well.

18L (of 36mg liquid) = 36L of 18mg juice.
I go through 2-3 ml per day, max.
36L/3ml = 12000 days...or 30 years!!

Planning in advance much? lol

Sam Kade

Pique wrote: »

What. The. Fukk ??
Heres the depressing news.

Why not go over their heads and give up the damn things Better still why don't they ban cigarettes altogether? Oh wait cigarettes are the most traded product the world over it will never happen :mad:

grindle

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Don't really know much about how the EU works voting wise but did our Irish MEP's vote on this and do we know how they voted?

We know how this scrotal vomit voted.

Pique wrote: »

18L (of 36mg liquid) = 36L of 18mg juice.
I go through 2-3 ml per day, max.
36L/3ml = 12000 days...or 30 years!!

Planning in advance much? lol

Yeah, that'd be a lifetime supply for me, but I'd be buying 18 litres of 75mg base to make 25mg juice = 54L @ ~3ml a day = a shade over 49 years.

redkid

Don't worry about it

redkid

grindle wrote: »

We know how this scrotal vomit voted.

My reply to nessas wonderful publicity on the journal

The unfortunate thing for her here is that as the co chair for meps against cancer she should have made herself aware that nicotine doesn't cause cancer that it's the inhalation of smoke from burned tobacco and also that the proposed regulation put forward for e cigs is in fact restrictive and this restriction will prevent many many people's transition from tobacco smoker to e cig smoker thus increasing all these people's chances of contracting cancer, the very thing she is trying to prevent.

For the good of that group and the good that they wish to and should be doing, lets hope she never makes chair person!

Shame on them.

rock whore

"The products covered by EU legislation will be extended and clarified; for example electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will only be allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals"

so it would depend on the strength of your juice.

This is not a "ban" or anywhere near it. DON'T PANIC.
e-cigs are not being targeted here in isolation. they are seen a products that are smoking-related, which is what they are.

Read the synopsis of the bill and it should put your mind at rest some.

as said already, the hardware will not be banned. some juices, probably the tastier ones, will be. but not all. and what is left on the market after regulation comes into force will be better labelled, probably ISO9000 standard and we will know better what we are inhaling.

unless this is handled in the very worst possible way, it should have little impact on your vaping

deeperblue11

tobacco companies have too much wealth which gives too much power.
they should all be shot.:mad:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the threshold they wre throwing around is (iirc) 4mg

that will have very large impacts on vaping

deco nate

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

the threshold they wre throwing around is (iirc) 4mg

that will have very large impacts on vaping

i thought they backed down on the nic content
and were hittin a ban on flavors??
feckin hell i really hate asholes that have
the power,yet no brain power!!
muppets with brown evlopes.

grindle

rock whore wrote: »

"The products covered by EU legislation will be extended and clarified; for example electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will only be allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals"

so it would depend on the strength of your juice.

This is not a "ban" or anywhere near it. DON'T PANIC.
e-cigs are not being targeted here in isolation. they are seen a products that are smoking-related, which is what they are.

Read the synopsis of the bill and it should put your mind at rest some.

as said already, the hardware will not be banned. some juices, probably the tastier ones, will be. but not all. and what is left on the market after regulation comes into force will be better labelled, probably ISO9000 standard and we will know better what we are inhaling.

unless this is handled in the very worst possible way, it should have little impact on your vaping

Read the bill yourself!

Anything over 4mg in strength or any single tank//device that contains over 2mg of nicotine (that would be 0.5ml of 4mg juice) would have to get a medicinal license. The licenses cost ~€100,000 per juice (per strength of that juice, per flavour of juice).

3.7. Nicotine containing products (NCP)
NCP fall outside the scope of Directive 2001/37/EC and Member States have so far
taken different regulatory approaches to address these products, including regulating
them as medicinal products, applying certain provisions that are used for tobacco
products or having no specific legislation.
The proposal stipulates that NCP that either have a nicotine level exceeding 2 mg, a
nicotine concentration exceeding 4 mg per ml or whose intended use results in a
mean maximum peak plasma concentration exceeding 4 ng per ml may be placed on
the market only if they have been authorised as medicinal products on the basis of
their quality, safety and efficacy, and with a positive risk/benefit balance24

Unless they're planning a greatly revised licensing scheme (they'd tell us about that just to shut us the fuck up & BAT's Intellicig wouldn't be wasting so much cash getting licensed up the wazoo) then this is a de facto ban on ejuice as we know it.

Did you think that thousands of people haven't been poring over these documents for months? This isn't random assortments of vapers reading their version of the Daily Mail, this is every vaper and vendor dissecting whatever the EU decides to throw us in the way of info and getting extremely worried.

worded

Why no just give up smoking and this shi1t. Are you men or mice ?

Some will power is all that's needed.

deco nate

so when does this ban come in??

grindle

worded wrote: »

Why no just give up smoking and this shi1t. Are you men or mice ?

Some will power is all that's needed.

Some of us want to give up, a lot of us don't.
I loved smoking, but it kills. I love vaping, and it doesn't. Ergo, I vape.

deco nate

worded wrote: »

Why no just give up smoking and this shi1t. Are you men or mice ?

Some will power is all that's needed.

feck off will ya!:)we enjoy it
if you dont fair play.
but dont tell us what to do,
we can make our own minds up,
and we chose to vape.
no harm to anyone else.
do you know what you are
talkin about?i dont think so...

grindle

deco nate wrote: »

so when does this ban come in??

There's a final vote in November I think (?) but I'd say there'll be many legal appeals if it goes against us.

Tentatively being enacted towards the end of 2015/start of 2016.

deco nate wrote: »

do you know what you are
talkin about?i dont think so...

Never mind him, he only saw this pop up on the front page. Thought he had a "cure" and had to tell us.

deco nate

moves up plans to make my own..
will ask tomorrow were everyone buys
their kit.

meoklmrk91

This vote was all about protecting the profits of big tobacco and not about the people of the EU who the MEP's seem to be making out are bumbling idiots who cannot make a decision for themselves. As a fairly new vaper this is worrying stuff, I am all for regulation to making vaping safer, health and safety protocols etc. but this goes way too far.

What is this gonna do to esmoke Ireland and all the other mom and pop sellers who keep us up and vaping, this is an industry that is actually growing and rapidly at that, and now the EU have actually stifled it.

P_1

The fact that the directive actually breaks EU law would hopefully ensure that any potential ban will take its sweet time to come in

drunkmonkey

It makes it harder for people to break their addiction, I can't see it being allowed in pharmacies, giving up smoking is about losing your addiction to nicotine, vape makes the addiction worse.

grindle

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

This vote was all about protecting the profits of big tobacco and not about the people of the EU who members of MEP seem to be making out are bumbling idiots who cannot make a decision for themselves. As a fairly new vaper this is worrying stuff, I am all for regulation to making vaping safer, health and safety protocols etc.

It's much more about keeping the status quo going between tobacco and pharmaceuticals.
Pharma have the most to win, BAT is the only tobacco company to get a license but the pharmaceuticals will have no bother tossing out ecigs by the lorryload at the drop of a hat, for Great New Prices!!!

Vaping already has stringent Food Safety Standards to reach, they just need to be enforced.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It makes it harder for people to break their addiction, I can't see it being allowed in pharmacies, giving up smoking is about losing your addiction to nicotine, vape makes the addiction worse.

Oh, you... Go on: How?

And you can't see them in pharmacies? Why do you think their medicinalising them?

deco nate

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It makes it harder for people to break their addiction, I can't see it being allowed in pharmacies, giving up smoking is about losing your addiction to nicotine, vape makes the addiction worse.

yet nicotine is no worse than coffee.
the harm comes from all the other ****e
in cigs.vapin does not harm anyone thats
around a vaper,cigs do.
i like my nicotine,and i harm no one excpet
the cig makers profits.
so leave us alone

ardle1

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Don't really know much about how the EU works voting wise but did our Irish MEP's vote on this and do we know how they voted?

Good point, I'd love to know. And if they voted for a ban on e-cigs and the continuation of the selling of tobacco,they are a total disgrace to thir families and the people they're meant to represent.

ardle1

worded wrote: »

Why no just give up smoking and this shi1t. Are you men or mice ?

Some will power is all that's needed.

I wasn't even gonna acknowledge your comment but I will,because hard as it is to believe,some people (like your kind self)still in 2013 don't seem to understand the addiction of tobacco, put it like this.. Would You make a similiar comment to a heroin user who had just entered into a methadone clinic? WELL WOULD YOU! Because that's how hard it is to "give up" for some smokers no actually MOST smokers.

redkid

rock whore wrote: »

"The products covered by EU legislation will be extended and clarified; for example electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will only be allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals"

so it would depend on the strength of your juice.

This is not a "ban" or anywhere near it. DON'T PANIC.
e-cigs are not being targeted here in isolation. they are seen a products that are smoking-related, which is what they are.

Read the synopsis of the bill and it should put your mind at rest some.

as said already, the hardware will not be banned. some juices, probably the tastier ones, will be. but not all. and what is left on the market after regulation comes into force will be better labelled, probably ISO9000 standard and we will know better what we are inhaling.

unless this is handled in the very worst possible way, it should have little impact on your vaping

You are correct it is not a outright ban, but for the likes of us who are vaping for quite some time before the regulation comes in, it is in essence an ban on how we vape, with the restrictions juice sizes and nic content and especially flavors it will massively effect the e juice supply chain

worded

I see this vape sh1t as concreting a nicotine addiction. People on these have it almost permanently hanging out of their mouths.

Said it before and will say it again, man up an give it up.

tommy2bad

rock whore wrote: »

"The products covered by EU legislation will be extended and clarified; for example electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will only be allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals"

so it would depend on the strength of your juice.

This is not a "ban" or anywhere near it. DON'T PANIC.
e-cigs are not being targeted here in isolation. they are seen a products that are smoking-related, which is what they are.

Read the synopsis of the bill and it should put your mind at rest some.

as said already, the hardware will not be banned. some juices, probably the tastier ones, will be. but not all. and what is left on the market after regulation comes into force will be better labelled, probably ISO9000 standard and we will know better what we are inhaling.

unless this is handled in the very worst possible way, it should have little impact on your vaping

Have to be suspicious of this response! ^

Firstly the TPD as passed yesterday has been amended to cover all ecig regardless of nic content. It dose not depend on the strength of the juice.

This is a BAN, ecigs are not being seen as tobacco related, they are being clasified as medicine. The MHRA have stated that no existing product will get a licence so everything we now use will be removed from sale.

How about you read the full text of the bill, I have oh and do read the important amendments.

Hardware will most likely be included in this as it will become a drug delivery device and as such will also require medical licencing.

Do some research, if this comes into force as it stands it will not just have an effect it will end vaping as we know it.

tommy2bad

P_1 wrote: »

The fact that the directive actually breaks EU law would hopefully ensure that any potential ban will take its sweet time to come in

Rebecca Taylor mep has tweeted that she heard a romour that they intend changing the existing legislation on medicines to make this legal before the next vote.
Big guns are out against us.

tommy2bad

Funny how the anti vaping trolls and the pro regs trolls turn up the day after the vote. Lobbying might be the only tool in the pharma box.

grindle

worded wrote: »

I see this vape sh1t as concreting a nicotine addiction. People on these have it almost permanently hanging out of their mouths.

Said it before and will say it again, man up an give it up.

You "see" this without knowing anything about it. The addiction and severity of the cravings is very much lessened. If it's hanging permanently out of somebody's mouth it's a good sign they've gone for too low a dosage from the off. There's also the probable illusion that they're using it more often because they're taking a puff or two every five minutes rather than a cig every half hour.

You're ignoring the fact that most of us like the habit.
You sound like a nanny, should I man up and give up alcohol as well?

Pique

Thinking about it again, 0mg nic flavours will be exempt. The hardware will be OK, so all we need it nic base.

grindle

Exactly. And there'll always be someone willing to send it to us, but it's a major inconvenience to newbies.

Mr. Chrome

Im not too worried about this....yet. As said.. stock up on nic base, and Im sure there will still be ways of getting your hands on the stuff. Where theres a will theres a way!
Cant see how the can ban pg/vg and flavorings, seriously, how can they ban a flavour?!
As for mods and egos, stick a bulb on the end and its a torch. Attys could become electronic incense dispensers ;-)
I know of a head shop that sell crack pipes, not bongs but actual crack pipes, but if you ask what they are you will be told there ornaments!


Im kinda worried about how guards will treat them, as in what happens if your vaping in public. Cops will have to uphold the law wether they agree with it or not.
I know ill be breaking the law but its just one more for the naughty list.
Are cops gonna be raiding houses, busting people for nic base? It would look pretty stupid in front of a judge, but then again...it would be law so who knows.

Im sure if I went to my doc he would give me a prescription for nic which should cover me for vaping in public.

I could be talking out my arse but thats how I see it atm. Besides, if it does happen, its years away and we have time to figure out what to do.
I think the people that really should be worried are the vendors that make most of their money from selling juice.

Its too nice of a day to be worrying about this bull**** ban. :-)
Sorry, started writing this before I saw the top two posts :-)

tommy2bad

Pique wrote: »

Thinking about it again, 0mg nic flavours will be exempt. The hardware will be OK, so all we need it nic base.

Again this is wrong. As things stand their is no mention of nic limits and the possibility of including 0% nic is there as the vendor will have to prove 0%nic.
Also once nic is a medicine then the delivery device becomes a drug delivery system and had to be licensed as such.
The wording of the TPD is such that only sealed units consisting of a disposable battery with an non refillable non removable carto will be the only ones to get a licence. This is the design that is currently undergoing the process.

Obviously a mod that comes without any carto or juice will not be included, nor will PG or VG but getting nic could be classed as smuggling. How much do you think you will need to stock up to last your now longer life?

tommy2bad

Im sure if I went to my doc he would give me a prescription for nic which should cover me for vaping in public.

He'll give you a prescription for a licensed ecig, not nic, he cant prescribe something that isn't legal.
It is too nice a day to be worrying about this, that's why they do it in the summer just before their holidays. Managing this kind of thing is what Linda McAvian is good at.
And too nice to be stuck in front of this PC but needs must, rescission paupers cant be choosers. We can wast time on the bosses dime though.

redkid

Think fully about this and the implications of this so called regulation, it will actually harm people's health not improve it and these are the elected people responsible for our welfare and they are actually clueless and in many cases being influenced by big tobacco industries which is actually who e cigs hurt most, them and the revenue commissioners. Don't be so naive to think theese people give a fcuk about anyone or their health.


It's actually laughable

Who agrees.

Green Hornet

Right - so does that mean that for example we can still get all of the hardware like blank or filled with 0 nic cartos, clearo's etc and RBA's and mods from the usual vendors (if they still have a market obviously)? I'm sure demand will drop sugnificantly though and supply of consumables will diminish until no longer viable for vendors. Probably a good idea for people who don't have mech mods or RBA's to think about getting them then because even cartos etc will need to be imported if local vendors disappear.

redkid

Green Hornet wrote: »

Right - so does that mean that for example we can still get all of the hardware like blank or filled with 0 nic cartos, clearo's etc and RBA's and mods from the usual vendors (if they still have a market obviously)? I'm sure demand will drop sugnificantly though and supply of consumables will diminish until no longer viable for vendors. Probably a good idea for people who don't have mech mods or RBA's to think about getting them then because even cartos etc will need to be imported if local vendors disappear.

No effectively all these devices will be deemed illegal because as earlier pointed out they will be used for the delivery of drugs so will not be legally available.

Myrddin

worded wrote: »

I see this vape sh1t as concreting a nicotine addiction. People on these have it almost permanently hanging out of their mouths.

So if 'politicians' are so concerned about health, why isn't nicotine being banned? Oh thats right, they generate huge amounts of money from the sale of it, the ecigs are cutting into revenue generation & the Tobacco lobby is up there with Big Oil for being some of the most powerful lobbies on the planet. Silly me.

According to an RTE tv advertisement, one in two smokers will die of a smoking related disease. So essentially, there's a 50% chance smoking will kill you. If you want to ban something, you ban that.

And no I'm not a smoker, nor a vaper...just someone who can see the bigger picture.

Green Hornet

redkid wrote: »

No effectively all these devices will be deemed illegal because as earlier pointed out they will be used for the delivery of drugs so will not be legally available.

In the case of an RBA though, all you need is some wire and cotton wool or wick. They can't ban those. If you have a mech mod you just need batteris and they can't ban those.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if you have a good quality RBA and mech mod you will be fine in terms of PV.

Consumables like cartos, clearo's will become obsolete though.

Pique

redkid wrote: »

No effectively all these devices will be deemed illegal because as earlier pointed out they will be used for the delivery of drugs so will not be legally available.

Rubbish. a vapouriser can have many different things in it. That nebuliser in the hospital? Same thing. If they are gonna get medieval on vapers, then the law could accidentally include those things also.
Bongs are legal as you 'can' use it for legal purposes.
e-cigs are the same. You can use flavoured pg (like half of SoCal seem to be doing apparently) with no nic and it's like a portable hookah.

tommy2bad

Pique wrote: »

Rubbish. a vapouriser can have many different things in it. That nebuliser in the hospital? Same thing. If they are gonna get medieval on vapers, then the law could accidentally include those things also.
Bongs are legal as you 'can' use it for legal purposes.
e-cigs are the same. You can use flavoured pg (like half of SoCal seem to be doing apparently) with no nic and it's like a portable hookah.

The neutralizer is a licensed device, like the asthma inhalers. The law already covers those things. Ever wonder why an asthma inhaler costs so much, it's just a pez dispenser really? In fact it would be better in some cool colors and shapes except that cool colors and shapes are not aloud under licencing law. Like NRT is in boring colors and shapes and limited flavors. It's a condition of licencing.

This is the whole point, regulation is good if it regulates the product for what it is. medicine as medicine and toasters as electrical goods. Ecigs are not medicines and should be regulated as general goods. The reason for medicine regulation is because it's so restrictive it will efectly kill of the ecig market or reduce it's appeal to the level of NRT and probably it's effectiveness.

redkid

Pique wrote: »

Rubbish. a vapouriser can have many different things in it. That nebuliser in the hospital? Same thing. If they are gonna get medieval on vapers, then the law could accidentally include those things also.
Bongs are legal as you 'can' use it for legal purposes.
e-cigs are the same. You can use flavoured pg (like half of SoCal seem to be doing apparently) with no nic and it's like a portable hookah.

It's not rubbish, read the proposal. Nebulisers and inhailers are not being bought and used for things other than their medicinal purpose there is no comparison.