weeds in arable silage

grazeaway

was walking the arable silage yesterday (grass seed under sown with spring barly) and noticed there is a lot of chick weed in places. due to teh slow spring this stuff got a bit of a foothold espically round the headland. most years we have had it the barly will grow and stiffle it but not this year. was planing on cutting and baling it proably end of the moneth or next month but am a bit worried about the weeds in the silage.

would i be better off strip grazing it, or will it be ok in the silage?

Muckit

grazeaway wrote: »

was walking the arable silage yesterday (grass seed under sown with spring barly) and noticed there is a lot of chick weed in places. due to teh slow spring this stuff got a bit of a foothold espically round the headland. most years we have had it the barly will grow and stiffle it but not this year. was planing on cutting and baling it proably end of the moneth or next month but am a bit worried about the weeds in the silage.

would i be better off strip grazing it, or will it be ok in the silage?

Don't be mad, continue with plan A. I wouldn't worry about the weeds. You will get poor utilisation by trying to strip graze now I think and also if you do there will be a butt left after them that you will still have to try and top, which won't be easy with it walked into the ground.

Most farmers that didn't spray this spring have alot of weeds in their grass silage (ie buttercups). I am so glad I sprayed this spring. Because I was spraying with a 4WD (ppor lock) and short booms had a few missed bits at the headland. You can see it now in aftergrass. I'm glad in a way that I did miss bits, as it has allowed me to compare and contrast...this is what the whole field would look like if I hadn't sprayed! (I should have done another swipe of headland to counteract, you live and learn)

The mower will cut it cleanly and you will be surprised how it will help new growth and thicken it up. Any weeds left can then be sprayed in the aftergrass. This is just what I would do

Farmer Pudsey

It must be fairly strong now no point in trying to spray or anything else. Cut as planned you can cut at 13 week at the cottage cheese stage. Cattle will eat the weeds as well they are not fussy. If you think the weeds are getting too strong cut a bit earlier and wilt for two days as it will dry out the barley seed I normally wilt for 24 hours anyway as the arable silage holds better at feeding

grazeaway

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It must be fairly strong now no point in trying to spray or anything else. Cut as planned you can cut at 13 week at the cottage cheese stage. Cattle will eat the weeds as well they are not fussy. If you think the weeds are getting too strong cut a bit earlier and wilt for two days as it will dry out the barley seed I normally wilt for 24 hours anyway as the arable silage holds better at feeding

yeah plan was to cut at about 3 months but it was set in april so was very much behind untill this week due to the weather. not strong enough yet to bale. was planning on getting a disc mower to cut and not use any conditior and wilt for a day or 2. if the weather holds and we get a few nice wet days then more heat it'll be ready by the end of the month. was more worried about the weeds in the silage

blue5000

When you cut the chickweed it is gone, it won't grow again, it has to grow from seed. It will put a bit of a taint on the silage though. What stage is the barley at?

grazeaway

walked it again last night, the grass is ok but there are still a nice collection of weeds growing up through the barly. the barly hasnt got too strong yet so the stems are not too straw like.

not going to chance making bales with weeds in them so going to let them in this evening. with the dry wether i'm going to let them in for a few hours a day

Farmer Pudsey

grazeaway wrote: »

walked it again last night, the grass is ok but there are still a nice collection of weeds growing up through the barly. the barly hasnt got too strong yet so the stems are not too straw like.

not going to chance making bales with weeds in them so going to let them in this evening. with the dry wether i'm going to let them in for a few hours a day

I would consider spraying it if you are thatworried about weeds. It will take ages to eat it out. Also cattle/sheep may not eat it if they have access to other grass(ie you are planninmg to let them in and out of it). They will also trample it down. If you are that worried cut and bale. However I would let ir for 4 weeks and cut away. I have got weeds in arable silage before with peas and barley as you cannot spray it.

Sam Kade

grazeaway wrote: »

walked it again last night, the grass is ok but there are still a nice collection of weeds growing up through the barly. the barly hasnt got too strong yet so the stems are not too straw like.

not going to chance making bales with weeds in them so going to let them in this evening. with the dry wether i'm going to let them in for a few hours a day

What growth stage is the barley at?

grazeaway

Sam Kade wrote: »

What growth stage is the barley at?

still very green, some of the ears are still opening so the seed is still small and soft. i'd say it would be another month or so before it would be fit to cut. going to only leave them in for a few hours at a time to graze it off, less likely to trample it into the ground. If i can bring this field back into rotation quicker i can stop one of the grass fields for a cut of silage that i know will have better grass, i'll still be able to get a few more rotations of of it this year.

Farmer Pudsey

grazeaway wrote: »

still very green, some of the ears are still opening so the seed is still small and soft. i'd say it would be another month or so before it would be fit to cut. going to only leave them in for a few hours at a time to graze it off, less likely to trample it into the ground. If i can bring this field back into rotation quicker i can stop one of the grass fields for a cut of silage that i know will have better grass, i'll still be able to get a few more rotations of of it this year.

How high is it 10''----12''

---

14''. Just because barley is green is no reason not to bale it. The reason that we let it go to seed in an arable silage context is to maximise quanity. If you cut now would you get 6 0r 7 bales per acre. The other reason we wait for the cheesy stage is that the water in the grain will run out however if there is no grain head the feeding is in the straw. I would cut now if you are that worried about the weeds before I would graze it. TBH I think you are panicking

yellow50HX

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

How high is it 10''----12''

---

14''. Just because barley is green is no reason not to bale it. The reason that we let it go to seed in an arable silage context is to maximise quanity. If you cut now would you get 6 0r 7 bales per acre. The other reason we wait for the cheesy stage is that the water in the grain will run out however if there is no grain head the feeding is in the straw. I would cut now if you are that worried about the weeds before I would graze it. TBH I think you are panicking

with the cost of making silage last thing you need is bales of sh*te. another thing is if the cover from the weeds and barly is too strong you could actually kill the grass by cutting. how long is the grass under neath will any of it make it into the bales if cut? if you cut it and the bales are mostly barly, straw and weeds then its a waste of money. strip graze it and get an extra rotaion of 2 of the field and spend the money for baling on fertilzer to drive on another field to make extra grass silage

grazeaway

let the cows into it to strip graze it last week, i was hoping they would clean it down like they normally do however they only ended up pulling up the straw and trampling it. the grains were nice and milky so took a chance and mowed the rest over the weekend and let it down to toast in the sun for a few days to wirther off the weeds as best i could. bales looked a lot better then i was expecting got about 7bales/ac. the real proof will be in a few months hopefully i havent made expensive bales of sh**e.

left the cows in to clean it off so hopefully with the bit of rain the grass will get a good spurt of growth.

Farmer Pudsey

grazeaway wrote: »

let the cows into it to strip graze it last week, i was hoping they would clean it down like they normally do however they only ended up pulling up the straw and trampling it. the grains were nice and milky so took a chance and mowed the rest over the weekend and let it down to toast in the sun for a few days to wirther off the weeds as best i could. bales looked a lot better then i was expecting got about 7bales/ac. the real proof will be in a few months hopefully i havent made expensive bales of sh**e.

left the cows in to clean it off so hopefully with the bit of rain the grass will get a good spurt of growth.

Again I would not have left it no longer than 24 hours I would not have worried about the weeds as long as it will not get mouldy it will have fair quality you will be amazed how much feeding is in green straw. Also if you could have used an additive on it, this would have helped to prevent mould and preserve better.

There was no way cows would eat it with the awn's on the seed these need to wither off or soften in silage. This is why they pulled the straw out of the ground. Was the grain cheesy at baling.

freedominacup

We picked up our arable this day last week. 4 stone barley put on with the 10-10-20 before the one-pass. I just checked the dockets we hit it with "foundation" 5 weeks after sowing along with a bit of aphicide we had left over after the barley and a bit of "Amazinc". It got 4k gals pig slurry, slightly less than 100kgs 10-10-20 and around the same of CAN per acre. I wasn't opening another 500kg bag of CAN/10-10-20 which is how I ended up at slightly less tha the 2 bags/acre.

Contractor reckoned it did 12-13 tonne fresh. Couldn't be sure of DM but absolutely no run-off from pit. Foundation did a serious number on weeds but also did a serious number on clover. I got bounced into using a mix with clover so not concerned with that loss. For a cost of just under €8/acre after all the other costs incurred with re-seeding it's small beer to keep the crop clean. Amazinc was less than €4/acre.

I reckon the contractor charges will be close on €100/acre before harvesting when bill arrives, €80/acre for grass see, barley (have to check but at least) €15/acre, fert costs around €80, put a value on my own time of whatever you're having yourself but an hour an acre for slurry spreader, 2 days stone picking 1 day with three men other 1 man and loader, 2 passes with fert spreader. Other bits and pieces of days tidying ditches at headlands, widening a few gaps etc. With no charge for my own work it's around €275/acre, giving my own work a reasonable rate it's closer to €375/acre. This was a stony bit of ground and needed a good bit of work but the extra work didn't come to more than €50/acre above the cost of doing a better section. €20 quid on the tilling end of things and €30 on the stone picking. After laying out all of that I couldn't justify not spraying it TBH especially when it was costing less than €15/acre for spray. If anything I'm underestimating the overall cost of doing the job.

Oh yeah forgot the cost for Roseate and applying to burn-off before anything was done. Add in ye're own cost for whatever glyphosate product ye use and the rate.

grazeaway

freedominacup wrote: »

We picked up our arable this day last week. 4 stone barley put on with the 10-10-20 before the one-pass. I just checked the dockets we hit it with "foundation" 5 weeks after sowing along with a bit of aphicide we had left over after the barley and a bit of "Amazinc". It got 4k gals pig slurry, slightly less than 100kgs 10-10-20 and around the same of CAN per acre. I wasn't opening another 500kg bag of CAN/10-10-20 which is how I ended up at slightly less tha the 2 bags/acre.

Contractor reckoned it did 12-13 tonne fresh. Couldn't be sure of DM but absolutely no run-off from pit. Foundation did a serious number on weeds but also did a serious number on clover. I got bounced into using a mix with clover so not concerned with that loss. For a cost of just under €8/acre after all the other costs incurred with re-seeding it's small beer to keep the crop clean. Amazinc was less than €4/acre.


I reckon the contractor charges will be close on €100/acre before harvesting when bill arrives, €80/acre for grass see, barley (have to check but at least) €15/acre, fert costs around €80, put a value on my own time of whatever you're having yourself but an hour an acre for slurry spreader, 2 days stone picking 1 day with three men other 1 man and loader, 2 passes with fert spreader. Other bits and pieces of days tidying ditches at headlands, widening a few gaps etc. With no charge for my own work it's around €275/acre, giving my own work a reasonable rate it's closer to €375/acre. This was a stony bit of ground and needed a good bit of work but the extra work didn't come to more than €50/acre above the cost of doing a better section. €20 quid on the tilling end of things and €30 on the stone picking. After laying out all of that I couldn't justify not spraying it TBH especially when it was costing less than €15/acre for spray. If anything I'm underestimating the overall cost of doing the job.

Oh yeah forgot the cost for Roseate and applying to burn-off before anything was done. Add in ye're own cost for whatever glyphosate product ye use and the rate.

Normally we don't spray but probably should have this year, hind sight is fantastic. Normally if we graze it the cows will clean it off. Uncle sat his around the same time as ours and he is graing at the mo.

landybeast

I have some barley and grass sowed for the first time this year. Everyone says cottage cheese stage to cut, is this just after the grain is finished filling? Mine is nearly at this stage now but the weather is not great for the near future so will leaving it longer make much difference ? Plenty of weeds mainly redshank in it too so would need a good wilt. Would an additive be needed its going into bales. Thanks

leg wax

if it was me i would not be trying to wait for a few days to let it on the ground in this current weather pattern,if you wait the grain will get to hard if you are unlucky,and if it goes into a bale like that it will come out thru the cow,bale and wrap staight away if weather still not settled.

F.D

Hi Grazeaway/ freedom, did you feed out any of your arable silage yet
interested to hear how its feeding, might put in some next year instead of spring barley

Sam Kade

Back in the 80's arable silage was only for bulking a reseed to get a crop off it. Not great feed value unless it has improved since I saw some one on donedeal advertising winter accommodation for cattle with arable silage no need for expensive concentrates said he :rolleyes:

grazeaway

F.D wrote: »

Hi Grazeaway/ freedom, did you feed out any of your arable silage yet
interested to hear how its feeding, might put in some next year instead of spring barley

Yeah started feeding it to cows out in the fields last week. Everything is cleaned down to the ground after a few hours. Bales were made in the good weather when it was roasting during the summer so the weeds were well wilted. Cows a mad for it. The mixture of the straw, grass and barley seems to agree with them.

Took a second cut from it in September but not sure how good that will be as it didn't get the same wilting, but no weeds.

freedominacup

We introduced arable and wholecrop on Monday and got a slight increase in milk immeadiately. The arable analysis is on the silage results thread around post 80. According to the analysis it's almost good enough for weanlings on it's own.

grazeaway

Feed out last of the arable bales today, cows absolutely love it actually turn up thier nose to the 1st cut silage I'm feeding with it. Will have to try and pop up a few pics. Really happy with it didn't get much of a wilt, cut in the morning baled and wrapped in the evening but the cattle really like it was surprised how much grain came in the second coming will defo do it again when reseeding.

epfff

grazeaway wrote: »

Feed out last of the arable bales today, cows absolutely love it actually turn up thier nose to the 1st cut silage I'm feeding with it. Will have to try and pop up a few pics. Really happy with it didn't get much of a wilt, cut in the morning baled and wrapped in the evening but the cattle really like it was surprised how much grain came in the second coming will defo do it again when reseeding.

What date did you sow cut etc approx
Plan on putting in some myself this year
What mix u use

grazeaway

epfff wrote: »

What date did you sow cut etc approx
Plan on putting in some myself this year
What mix u use

Was in may before I was able to get it in as the ground temp was too cold. Was in July when the weather was really warm that I cut the 1st cut ( a few days after I started this thread). Did the 2nd cut in mid September.

Will have to pull out the dockets from the merchants to get the rates. The grass was a silage grazing grass mix, the barley was the same used for spring barley. Ploughed with a reversal plough, then a run of the rotovator, spread the barley with the wagtail, then a run of the zigzag to cover, spread the hayseed with the wagtail again then roll it. Should have sprayed with a pre emergence so will do that next time. Still got two grazings in authunm.

epfff

grazeaway wrote: »

Was in may before I was able to get it in as the ground temp was too cold. Was in July when the weather was really warm that I cut the 1st cut ( a few days after I started this thread). Did the 2nd cut in mid September.

Will have to pull out the dockets from the merchants to get the rates. The grass was a silage grazing grass mix, the barley was the same used for spring barley. Ploughed with a reversal plough, then a run of the rotovator, spread the barley with the wagtail, then a run of the zigzag to cover, spread the hayseed with the wagtail again then roll it. Should have sprayed with a pre emergence so will do that next time. Still got two grazings in authunm.

Last year was exceptional year
But I'm liking the sound of what you have done
what stage was the grain for first cut

grazeaway

epfff wrote: »

Last year was exceptional year
But I'm liking the sound of what you have done
what stage was the grain for first cut

cut it at the milky stage. there was still a nice a head on it at both cuts and that stayed on the stalks and was picked up and baled. cattle cleaned it off and left no grain after them.

found the pics off the phone

epfff

grazeaway wrote: »

cut it at the milky stage. there was still a nice a head on it at both cuts and that stayed on the stalks and was picked up and baled. cattle cleaned it off and left no grain after them.

found the pics off the phone

Tnx for Info
Didn't think it would get to milky stage that quick
Very educational again
Better than a discussion group

grazeaway

epfff wrote: »

Tnx for Info
Didn't think it would get to milky stage that quick
Very educational again
Better than a discussion group

Yeah was surprised I could get 2 cuts but I was a great summer so was able it get 2 cuts.

A lad at work was telling me that cattle broke into his dad's corn over a weekend a few years ago and grazed it down before they realised it had broke in, it grew back stronger and he was able to cut it for silage so it's not unusual.