Are neighbours taking advantage?

shipsey

Hi there,
could do with some advice outside opinions etc.
situation is as follows
recently we bought a house with garden which was not overlooked. at the back of house there is a narrow stripe of council land which is the behind the rest of the houses on the row also. council will never take it back and it appears that the other few houses have taken the bit behind their house as part of their own garden.

anyway between when we viewed the house and when we moved in the neighbours beside us have taken over the stripe behind our house. the pervious owners probably gave them permission as they were apparently good friends and it wouldn't bother him as he was moving on.

they have planted shrubs etc.
we feel this is unfair and very opportunistic of neighbours. we haven't said anything to them as they seem nice and its horrible falling out with neighbours

would value opinions of what to do, do we have right to be annoyed etc.

thanks

Bigcheeze

did they just plant it or fence it off as part of their garden ? If it's the former why would you care about planting?

I take it you mean the strip is at the back of the garden not the house.

shipsey

thanks for reply.

yes stripe is at back of our garden.

they have put green house on it and lots of small trees and shrubs

they are there a lot and we can plainly see them which affects our privacy. I also think that we should have the opportunity to use the stripe as they are using their own part and ours.(I know it doesn't belong to any of us.). Also
we bought a house that was not suppose to be overlooked at the back and this is not the case.

I also worry that if we want to sell the house in future it could be off putting to potential buyers.

what do people think?

Rhys Essien

Two words,cheeky ba$tards.I would ask the auctioneer for an explanation from the seller as to why they have taken control of this ground from the time you viewed the house.

Some fcukers can never get enough.

TheDriver

are they using the bit behind their garden also? If so, then I would think you could nicely state that you would like to use the ground behind YOUR house for some gardening yourself, its not an allotment. Alternatively contact council and ask why are people using land beind your house that they own and littering......
But I prefer the ask the auctioneer line for starters, especially if its all been done since viewing

djimi

Other than the fact that they are overlooking your garden, Im not really sure what you are expecting to get from this? Its not your land; you dont have any claim over it and you dont really have any right to tell the neighbours that they cannot use it because you want to. Perhaps put up a fence or something to sort out the privacy issue, but other than that I dont really see the issue or how it will be resolved.

Scortho

You could possibly inform the council. Its not your land, or your neighbours, and you have no rights to it (except through adverse possession).
Id be having a chat with the council to inform them that someone has adversely taken possession of their land.

Citycap

Scortho wrote: »

You could possibly inform the council. Its not your land, or your neighbours, and you have no rights to it (except through adverse possession).
Id be having a chat with the council to inform them that someone has adversely taken possession of their land.

Correct. It's not yours and it's not the neighbour. Let the council decide on the matter. The fact that yopu bough a house not overlooked is of no consequence if any developement behind you is within the planning regulations. Of course if the council did leave the piece of land idle it could become an attraction to anti social elements

khards

Stand naked out in you garden, so that when they go to the land they can see you.
That will give them a shock and they will me mindful of your privacy after that.

murphaph

Regardless of the legalities of who owns what...this is a VERY cheeky move by your so-called "nice" neighbours. I would ask them to remove their stuff as you intend using the bit yourself (they have no more right to be on it than you do). If they react any way negatively, ask them would they mind if you used the bit behind their garden and when they say "yes" then they are proving your point for you!

Forest Demon

In fairness if they had a word with the previous owner of your house and the PO said "no bother you use it, I won't use it at all" and then they put some work into it and a greenhouse etc. then how were they to know that the previous owner would sell up. Just offering an alternative scenario.

That said if you wanted to use it yourself like a lot of other people have done then you should mention it to them as the more effort/work that they put into it the worse it will be when you tell them to take a hike.

If they just took it then that was cheeky and you should tell them to F*** off as it will affect the value of your house going forward with the reduction of privacy.

Its a bit awkward for you either way.

djimi

Forest Demon wrote: »

In fairness if they had a word with the previous owner of your house and the PO said "no bother you use it, I won't use it at all" and then they put some work into it and a greenhouse etc. then how were they to know that the previous owner would sell up. Just offering an alternative scenario.

That said if you wanted to use it yourself like a lot of other people have done then you should mention it to them as the more effort/work that they put into it the worse it will be when you tell them to take a hike.

If they just took it then that was cheeky and you should tell them to F*** off as it will affect the value of your house going forward with the reduction of privacy.

Its a bit awkward for you either way.

The OP really has no right to tell them to take a hike or anything of the sort. Its not their land, and if privacy from council land is a concern then its up to them to put up a fence or something.

Mrs OBumble

Build a fence.

khards

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Build a fence.

- which is about 10ft high and blocks out all the light to the grounds.

Adn whilst you are there, drench it in weed killer.:D

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

The OP really has no right to tell them to take a hike or anything of the sort. Its not their land, and if privacy from council land is a concern then its up to them to put up a fence or something.

The OP has as much right to use it as they do legally and morally more right. I'm assuming the neighbours have moved in here recently mind, between the viewing and the contract signing.

I would not just let this lie if this is indeed what's happened.

If they've always been there and it was clear at viewing time then I'd say tough on the OP.

michael999999

It isn't a mid morning national radio show host living beside you is it OP?

WIZE

OP there is a simple solution. Get yourself some deckchairs and table and a BBQ and go out to the strip of land every day and chill out.

IF your neighbours ask wtf you are doing tell them the land does not belong to them. you can also start digging holes everywhere saying you plan in the future to do something . keep repeating until the get the message

Frank Black

In answer to the question in your title - yes, they're certainly taking advantage.
You could inform the council, but it's likely that they won't take action unless the need the land for something specific. In some cases the council are happy for lands to cede to others through adverse possession as it removes any maintenance responsibilities from them.

I would discuss the issue with your neighbours - I mean even they must know they are being cheeky about this, and as you say they are effectively using 'their own' strip and 'yours'.
You are right to be concerned about the potential impacts on selling your property in the future. It's best to deal with this soon rather than let it drag on.

C.K Dexter Haven

OP. I don't understand where you say "other neighbours have taken it as part of their garden"- do you mean that they have extended their boundary wall/fence to include this land as their garden, or do they jump over the wall/fence at the end of their garden and "potter about " on this land?

What do the deeds of your house say about this land? Is your end of garden clearly marked/defined?

It seems from your post that something has changed since you viewed/purchased the house- as a result, the estate agent may shrug their shoulders.

I think the first step is going back to the estate agent and possibly your solicitor to establish who exactly owns the land and what rights, if any you have to either use it, or have it left untouched.
Depending on the answer, progress with your neighbour. If they feel you will progress the matter with the council, they may think twice around establishing any claim to "your" part, but really, everyone should be staying away from that land if it's not theirs to begin with as it could create insurance complications if anything happened.

riclad

it s council land ,
Build a fence to get privacy,
it,ll probably have no effect on your house value ,unless theres a large building on it.
POLITELY tell them how you feel about, they may think you do,nt care .

When you buy a house you have a right to a land inside the boundary.

You cannot presume to own anything more than that.

Sometimes there,s spaces between buildings which people take over ,
on an informal basis,
if someone wants, total privacy buy a detached house or cottage .
SINCE most land in ireland is empty,or agricultural land ,
people usually get away with it.
Unless someone makes an formal complaint.

djimi

murphaph wrote: »

The OP has as much right to use it as they do legally and morally more right. I'm assuming the neighbours have moved in here recently mind, between the viewing and the contract signing.

I would not just let this lie if this is indeed what's happened.

If they've always been there and it was clear at viewing time then I'd say tough on the OP.

The OP has zero right to use it, legally or morally. The OP can kick up a fuss with their neighbour if they wish, but the bottom line is they have no right to demand use of, or dictate who can use, a plot of land that neither party owns.

shipsey

thanks for all your replies, you have all given me food for thought both the very practical suggestions and the more creative ones.

to answer some of the queries you raised in your replies,
yes the other houses seem to have fenced off the council land behind their house as part of their garden. the next door neighbours has built a large shed on their bit.

I think I will talk to auctioneer tomorrow and see what he says.

I feel we do need to let them know how we feel about it. I am dreading it though as they are the type who came in to introduce themselves the first day and welcome us. they also put the bin in our drive when we haven't been home.

we are here two months and haven't said anything not wanting to rock the boat so they probably think we aren't going to/don't mind - and in the two months they have been doing a lot of work on it although a part of it they do use for old broken bits and pieces and rubble.

really hate these type of situations and is the first time finding ourselves at odds with neighbours
thanks again- any other words of wisdom - keep them coming they are much appreciated - even the ones that don't agree with our view point:)

The Spider

Ha that's a classic strategy, be really nice and you're unlikely to say anything, they know they're taking the piss, and as soon as you say something, I guarantee you'll see another side to them.

But so what, do what you have to do, I couldn't have that, nope time to stop caring what they think, because they don't care what you think.

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

The OP has zero right to use it, legally or morally. The OP can kick up a fuss with their neighbour if they wish, but the bottom line is they have no right to demand use of, or dictate who can use, a plot of land that neither party owns.

It's not just a single plot. It's one "plot" in a row that have more or less all been taken over by the adjacent respective landowners. One of those landowners has grabbed 2 plots for himself though. If it were me I would occupy the plot myself until such a time as the council took it back in charge.

I wouldn't just let this slide myself, you might be ok with your neighbour doing what his has done but I wouldn't be. I'd start making use of the plot myself and if Mr. Neighbour keeps using it then I'd start using the plot behind his property to see how he feels.

The Spider

murphaph wrote: »

It's not just a single plot. It's one "plot" in a row that have more or less all been taken over by the adjacent respective landowners. One of those landowners has grabbed 2 plots for himself though. If it were me I would occupy the plot myself until such a time as the council took it back in charge.

I wouldn't just let this slide myself, you might be ok with your neighbour doing what his has done but I wouldn't be. I'd start making use of the plot myself and if Mr. Neighbour keeps using it then I'd start using the plot behind his property to see how he feels.

Just fence it off as others have done, let him know what you're doing, but tell him you're doing it, as in don't ask if it's ok, just say this is what I'm doing so you'll have to remove your stuff.

djimi

murphaph wrote: »

It's not just a single plot. It's one "plot" in a row that have more or less all been taken over by the adjacent respective landowners. One of those landowners has grabbed 2 plots for himself though. If it were me I would occupy the plot myself until such a time as the council took it back in charge.

I wouldn't just let this slide myself, you might be ok with your neighbour doing what his has done but I wouldn't be. I'd start making use of the plot myself and if Mr. Neighbour keeps using it then I'd start using the plot behind his property to see how he feels.

But do you not get my point that it doesnt really matter what people have been doing with the plot as it doesnt belong to the OP or to any of their neighbours? Yes its annoying what has happened, and the OP is of course free to kick off if they want to upset their new neighbours and cause a ruckus a few weeks after moving into the place, but the bottom line is that it would cause a row over a plot of land that neither party has any rightful claim over. Its not really any different to someone body starting something over who can use the green in the middle of the estate; the only difference being that this plot of land lies adjacent to their garden.

The only issue is the one of privacy, which can be easily sorted by erecting a fence at the end of the garden.

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

But do you not get my point that it doesnt really matter what people have been doing with the plot as it doesnt belong to the OP or to any of their neighbours? Yes its annoying what has happened, and the OP is of course free to kick off if they want to upset their new neighbours and cause a ruckus a few weeks after moving into the place, but the bottom line is that it would cause a row over a plot of land that neither party has any rightful claim over. Its not really any different to someone body starting something over who can use the green in the middle of the estate; the only difference being that this plot of land lies adjacent to their garden.

The only issue is the one of privacy, which can be easily sorted by erecting a fence at the end of the garden.

Legally neither party have a right to use the plot. Agreed 100%.

This is not that black and white though. The neighbour's have taken the p!ss here getting stuck in just as the house was being sold. They saw their opportunity and pounced. The OP should pounce back and start using the plot themselves.

The OP's neighbour's don't care what the OP thinks/feels. OP needs to tell them that they'll be wanting to use the plot behind their garden just like every other house on the row INCLUDING the neighbour in question.

djimi

murphaph wrote: »

Legally neither party have a right to use the plot. Agreed 100%.

This is not that black and white though. The neighbour's have taken the p!ss here getting stuck in just as the house was being sold. They saw their opportunity and pounced. The OP should pounce back and start using the plot themselves.

The OP's neighbour's don't care what the OP thinks/feels. OP needs to tell them that they'll be wanting to use the plot behind their garden just like every other house on the row INCLUDING the neighbour in question.

I would be inclined to say have a talk to the neighbours, but no more than that. I just dont see it being worth starting a war with your new neighbours the first few weeks you move in over a plot of land that neither party owns. What happens if at some point in the near future the council turn around and take it back, and you are then left with no land and neighbours that you dont get on with?

Corkbah

quiet word with the neighbour should sort it out.

simple question to them ..... do they want to use it or do they want you to report the matter to the council - which will result in them having to remove whatever they put up and other neighbours will loose their strip of land because they got too greedy....I'm sure the other neighbours wont want to loose their "free" strip of land, so might put pressure on your neighbours to hand it back.

gramar

It's probably a good idea to have a chat with the auctioneer before doing anything else and make sure you're fully informed. Remember that you could be living beside these people for a long time so if you do speak to your neighbours about it then use a bit of tact. Being on bad terms regardless of who is to blame is never pleasant so bear that in mind before approaching them.

Frank Black

This thread is full of useless high-horsery comments and internet hereos.

The first step is to discuss the matter with your neighbours in a non-confrontational or accusatory manner. You will likely be living beside these people for years and it's best to keep things civil.
e.g you can say that you've noticed that many of the neighbours have taken the plots behind their property into their possession and that you are considering doing the same with the plot behind your house. No need to accuse them of 'grabbing your piece. You could initiate the discussion on the basis of asking them the history of the plots, how long some of the neighbours have had possession of them, if the Council have ever entered into any communication wet them - stuff like that.

If they point black refuse to 'move out' of the plot behind your house, that's a different matter, but I wouldn't worry about this initially. They will be just as keen as yourself to maintain good neighbourly relations I'd imagine.

redzer_irl

Call over to your neighbour and to let them know that you ordered a fence for the area (much like your other neighbours) as soon as you signed the contract for the house and that it is being delivered next week.
See what the reaction is then.

Marcusm

gramar wrote: »

It's probably a good idea to have a chat with the auctioneer before doing anything else and make sure you're fully informed. Remember that you could be living beside these people for a long time so if you do speak to your neighbours about it then use a bit of tact. Being on bad terms regardless of who is to blame is never pleasant so bear that in mind before approaching them.

You must deal with a unique auctioneer/estate agent; most of the ones I've dealt with can generally inform me only of things they've made up in their head and have little true knowledge about most of the properties they're selling - certainly nothing about the boundaries, title or potential land disputes.

riclad

ask the neighbours 3 or 4 houses down ,is it council land etc
MAYBE wait a month see what your neighbours are like,
before you ask about the land .

every estate is different ,
SOME people never talk to there neighbours unless theres an emergency .
Don,t get off to a bad start ,you could be living there for 10 years .

DID you not notice the glasshouse before you bought the house.
Above all be polite and non agressive.
DO NOT accuse anyone of doing anything,
remember no one has ANY Right to use or take over council land.
YOU CAN get advice from free legal advice centre flac .
i think its wrong to build a shed behind your house ,
instead of behind theres,
or is it crossing over both boundarys .
You,ll have to a least say to your neighbour ,
i know its council land,
i do not wish ANY more building to go on behind my house ,
unless its done by order of the council .
the house boundarys should be described on your house deeds .
does the estate have a residents association.?

I,M not a lawyer ,you could probably go to the council and they, would remove any sheds
built on council land without planning permission.

az2wp0sye65487

Corkbah wrote: »

quiet word with the neighbour should sort it out.

Frank Black wrote: »

This thread is full of useless high-horsery comments and internet hereos.

The first step is to discuss the matter with your neighbours in a non-confrontational or accusatory manner. You will likely be living beside these people for years and it's best to keep things civil.
e.g you can say that you've noticed that many of the neighbours have taken the plots behind their property into their possession and that you are considering doing the same with the plot behind your house. No need to accuse them of 'grabbing your piece. You could initiate the discussion on the basis of asking them the history of the plots, how long some of the neighbours have had possession of them, if the Council have ever entered into any communication wet them - stuff like that.

If they point black refuse to 'move out' of the plot behind your house, that's a different matter, but I wouldn't worry about this initially. They will be just as keen as yourself to maintain good neighbourly relations I'd imagine.

Some sense being spoken at last!

I think most people here are jumping the gun with some of the presumptions and suggestions being made.

OP, why not just speak to your neighbours as a starting point. It may well be all sorted out over a cup of tea.

No point in considering other avenues yet. Wait to see how they react/respond to a conversation first. If they aren't agreeable to moving off the land, then you can look at other options.

runawaybishop

I'm not fully behind the suggestions that the OP shouldn't upset the neighbours as they have to live with them. The neighbours have already upset the OP who have an equal right to live in happiness.

Richard Dower

Put an alligator in the plot...that'll sort ém!

Frank Black

runawaybishop wrote: »

I'm not fully behind the suggestions that the OP shouldn't upset the neighbours as they have to live with them. The neighbours have already upset the OP who have an equal right to live in happiness.

You may wish to live your life constantly engaged in a series of escalating confrontations with your neighbours.

Most people just want to enjoy their home and maintain good neighbourly relations.

runawaybishop

Frank Black wrote: »

You may wish to live your life constantly engaged in a series of escalating confrontations with your neighbours.

Most people just want to enjoy their home and maintain good neighbourly relations.

The OPs neighbours have already initiated a conflict though and brought about bad relations.

Richard Dower

Frank Black wrote: »

You may wish to live your life constantly engaged in a series of escalating confrontations with your neighbours.

Most people just want to enjoy their home and maintain good neighbourly relations.

+1....its not good when yer neighbors hate the sight of you, if you went up in flames...who would save you?

laoisman11

Frank Black wrote: »

This thread is full of useless high-horsery comments and internet hereos.

The first step is to discuss the matter with your neighbours in a non-confrontational or accusatory manner. You will likely be living beside these people for years and it's best to keep things civil.
e.g you can say that you've noticed that many of the neighbours have taken the plots behind their property into their possession and that you are considering doing the same with the plot behind your house. No need to accuse them of 'grabbing your piece. You could initiate the discussion on the basis of asking them the history of the plots, how long some of the neighbours have had possession of them, if the Council have ever entered into any communication wet them - stuff like that.

If they point black refuse to 'move out' of the plot behind your house, that's a different matter, but I wouldn't worry about this initially. They will be just as keen as yourself to maintain good neighbourly relations I'd imagine.

Well said.

OP, you will have these people as neighbours for many years to come and if you followed most of the advice given here, the relationship with your neighbours will finish somewhere between mistrust and all-out war.

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

The OPs neighbours have already initiated a conflict though and brought about bad relations.

No they havent; they have seemingly acted with permission of the former owner of the property. From what we have been told, the OP has not broached the subject yet with the neighbour.

Starting a conflict with your next door neighbour is just about the last thing you would ever want to do, and especially over something as ridiculous as a dispute over a plot of land that neither party has any proper claim over and could lose in the morning if the council decide that they want it back.

runawaybishop

djimi wrote: »

No they havent;

Does the OP sound happy with the situation to you?

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

Does the OP sound happy with the situation to you?

How can you have a conflict when one party doesnt even know its happening?!! Until the OP speaks to the neighbours this entire "conflict" exists entirely inside their head.

runawaybishop

djimi wrote: »

How can you have a conflict when one party doesnt even know its happening?!! Until the OP speaks to the neighbours this entire "conflict" exists entirely inside their head.

I'm not against being civil, I just said they initiated it, not the op.

Balmed Out

Have you asked the council would they consider selling it?

djimi

runawaybishop wrote: »

I'm not against being civil, I just said they initiated it, not the op.

My point is that they didnt initiate anything with the OP; by the sounds of it an arrangement was come to with the previous owner. Its not a conflict (at the moemnt anyway).

Ray Palmer

I would just talk to them. Explain that if all the owners do it they are more likely to claim ownership from the council but if the boundaries are not equal it would be more difficult. From the description the neighbours garden shape must look very odd now.

Best to appeal to the person self interest and point out another threat rather than be the threat.

Wabbit Ears

The only conflict here exists in the OP's head.

The neighbours are not doing anything wrong, do not realise that they are in anyway, shape or form upsetting the OP nor are they doing anything thats beyond the norm in the area they are living in.

Playing devils advocate and looking form the neighbours side you are talking about someone who has just moved in and is already talking about how he disagrees about how they are doing things thats been the norm for years?

Thoie

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The neighbours are not doing anything wrong, do not realise that they are in anyway, shape or form upsetting the OP nor are they doing anything thats beyond the norm in the area they are living in.

The norm seems to be claim the bit directly behind your own house, not a double parcel. They don't know that it's upsetting the OP, but they know they're not doing the norm.

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Playing devils advocate and looking form the neighbours side you are talking about someone who has just moved in and is already talking about how he disagrees about how they are doing things thats been the norm for years?

It hasn't been the norm for years - they dashed in between the time the OP viewed the house, and the time he got the keys - a couple of months. There's an element of sneakiness there to dash in during a limited period, and construct a shed deliberately on the side that's behind the new people. Why not build the shed on the piece that was behind their own garden?

Scotty #

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The only conflict here exists in the OP's head.

The neighbours are not doing anything wrong, do not realise that they are in anyway, shape or form upsetting the OP nor are they doing anything thats beyond the norm in the area they are living in.

Playing devils advocate and looking form the neighbours side you are talking about someone who has just moved in and is already talking about how he disagrees about how they are doing things thats been the norm for years?

For years? the op said it was council (i.e. Communal) land when they looked at buying the house. It only became part of their neighbours property AFTER the OP purchased.

Not doing anything wrong? They've taken communal land owned by the taxpayer for themselves!


OP (I think) legal title will eventually pass (8 years??) to your neighbours if you ignore this.