Arrest Ming?

MadsL

“Every time I stand up in the Dáil, he says to me that I am a criminal for cutting my turf. Well, if I am a criminal for cutting my turf, let him come out and arrest me and drag me through the courts, because we know your tactic Mr Deenihan, your tactic is to pick on the weak. Well, you're wrong, none of us are weak.”

source

Perhaps Ming believes he has friends in the Gardai?
I admit I have no idea if his bog is a SAC and therefore illegal to cut, but if it is I have no idea why he would not be charged, and if convicted asked to resign.

On the other hand...arresting a figurehead will give the "rebel" turfcutters a martyr to rally around.

What does AH think of Ming's grandstanding?

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

Perhaps Ming believes he has friends in the Gardai?
I admit I have no idea if his bog is a SAC and therefore illegal to cut, but if it is I have no idea why he would not be charged, and if convicted asked to resign.

On the other hand...arresting a figurehead will give the "rebel" turfcutters a martyr to rally around.

What does AH think of Ming's grandstanding?

Don't arrest Ming, he'd love that. Just ignore him and arrest the lower profile criminals.

MadsL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Don't arrest Ming, he'd love that. Just ignore him and arrest the lower profile criminals.

But then you will have to listen to Mong bleating about how he wasn't arrested. Hard choices.

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

But then you will have to listen to Mong bleating about how he wasn't arrested. Hard choices.

True but it's nothing compared to the amount of bleated he'd do if he was arrested.

Lenin Skynard

He has already been arrested more than once and it did neither him nor his career any harm. Probably played a part in getting him to where he is.

MadsL

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

He has already been arrested more than once and it did neither him nor his career any harm. Probably played a part in getting him to where he is.

He's been convicted several times. Including nine days inside for not paying a litter fine. So the expression 'criminal' is already correct.

None of those whilst a serving TD though.

4zn76tysfajdxp

He'll probably get off because he was cutting turf while on Dail business.

Almaviva

MadsL wrote: »

What does AH think of Ming's grandstanding?

Opportunist gob****ery of the highest order.

washman3

MadsL wrote: »

Perhaps Ming believes he has friends in the Gardai?
I admit I have no idea if his bog is a SAC and therefore illegal to cut, but if it is I have no idea why he would not be charged, and if convicted asked to resign.

On the other hand...arresting a figurehead will give the "rebel" turfcutters a martyr to rally around.

What does AH think of Ming's grandstanding?

What do you want him arrested for.?
For supporting 'dissident turfcutters'.?
For dressing inappropriately in the Dail.?
What exactly.?
My opinion : if we want to arrest people we should start with Fitzgerald and Bowe from Anglo Irish Bank and order Drumm to return from the USA.

P.S. are you still banned from the last thread you started aka 'dissident Turfcutters' :P

Royal Irish

Ming for Tea Shock!!

vagabond2013

Why pick on one person making him a scapegoat instead of focusing on the issue at hand and dealing with that instead... ??

MadsL

washman3 wrote: »

What do you want him arrested for.?
For supporting 'dissident turfcutters'.?
For dressing inappropriately in the Dail.?
What exactly.?

As I said earlier, if his bog is an SAC then it is illegal to cut turf on it. I believe he has cut turf on Cloonchambers Bog SAC, an offence under section 35 (1)(B) and section 67 (2) of the European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats) Regulations 2011.

]My opinion : if we want to arrest people we should start with Fitzgerald and Bowe from Anglo Irish Bank and order Drumm to return from the USA.

No argument there, but one law is not repealed because another is not enforced on an individual. Besides the DPP is investigating bankers.

MadsL

vagabond2013 wrote: »

Why pick on one person making him a scapegoat instead of focusing on the issue at hand and dealing with that instead... ??

Because he is taunting that he is above the law.

Which seems to be a bit rich given all his previous comments on the Gardai and fines.

mikehammer67

if they nabbed him smokin a joint while he was cuttin the turf

they could throw the book at him wah..........

Sunnyisland

Arrest Ming?


Let him get in the Q, there are many others more deservedly so.

MadsL

mikehammer67 wrote: »

if they nabbed him smokin a joint while he was cuttin the turf

they could throw the book at him wah..........

He [edit: says he] no longer smokes cannabis in Ireland.

mikehammer67

MadsL wrote: »

He no longer smokes cannabis in Ireland.

you sure.....

MadsL

mikehammer67 wrote: »

you sure.....

edited.

crazy cabbage

For standing up for what he believes is right? Arresting him for doing that is a very bad idea.

On the other hand a lot of other politicians have done much worse stuff behind our backs that they knew was wrong.

If we are going to arrest politicians lets start with them, yea?

MadsL

crazy cabbage wrote: »

For standing up for what he believes is right? Arresting him for doing that is a very bad idea.

On the other hand a lot of other politicians have done much worse stuff behind our backs that they knew was wrong.

If we are going to arrest politicians lets start with them, yea?

So, he should be treated differently because he is a politician? My irony meter just melted.

Jericho.

I may be in the minority here but I admire Ming. You might not agree with his methods but he pushes the issues that he was elected on. He seems like he cares. A Dáil full of Mings would be easily better than what we have now.

mikehammer67

is there votes in this for him?

i don't have a problem if he's genuine

MadsL

Jericho. wrote: »

A Dáil full of Mings would be easily better than what we have now.

A Dáil full of people who believe EU and Irish law is optional.

Let me know how that turns out.

crazy cabbage

MadsL wrote: »

So, he should be treated differently because he is a politician? My irony meter just melted.

No. Arrest him if you want but there is loads more of them.

But if you arrest him, like someone else has said, you are giveing people someone to rally behind.

Jericho.

MadsL wrote: »

A Dáil full of people who believe EU and Irish law is optional.

Let me know how that turns out.

We're clearly better off with a Dáil full of people whose primary interest is in lining their own and their mates pockets.

MadsL

crazy cabbage wrote: »

No. Arrest him if you want but there is loads more of them.

But if you arrest him, like someone else has said, you are giveing people someone to rally behind.

Loads?

Some 2,668 people have applied for the compensation scheme to date with 1,888 opting for the financial compensation deal of €1,500 a year for 15 years as well as a once off sign-up payment of €500.

http://www.thejournal.ie/turf-cutters-compensation-3-926600-May2013/

Unless you mean people who have accepted payments and continue to cut under the rabble rousing of people like Ming.

MadsL

Jericho. wrote: »

We're clearly better off with a Dáil full of people whose primary interest is in lining their own and their mates pockets.

Rather vague allegations there, who specifically do you mean?

I assume you voted for at least a couple of them. If not, do enlighten me.

Headshot

arrest him for trying to kill Flash Ah, ah

MadsL

Headshot wrote: »

arrest him for trying to kill Flash Ah, ah

{OT} Holy sh1t, 42k posts and I have never seen your username before :eek:

Headshot

MadsL wrote: »

{OT} Holy sh1t, 42k posts and I have never seen your username before :eek:

damn newbie

Banjo String

is ming Gay by any chance?

He told me he was up to his balls in Pete in the bog yesterday.

MadsL

SamHall wrote: »

is ming Gay by any chance?

He told me he was up to his balls in Pete in the bog yesterday.

http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot

Well, it's so much easier for the politicians to be bogged down in the turfcutting issue than it is to sort out the financial mess we're in due to them being hoodwinked into bailing out the banksters.

TeddyTedson

That whole ban on turf cutting is absolute horse sh1t.

MadsL

TeddyTedson wrote: »

That whole ban on turf cutting is absolute horse sh1t.

How so? Could you actually set out an argument for it, rather than "horse****"

Irish bogs are very rare part of European habitat, over over 80% of their former extent has been lost.

They are also effective carbon sinks;

Peatlands are carbon sinks holding the bulk of Ireland's carbon store as peat. It has been estimated that peatlands contain in the order of
5000 tonnes of carbon per hectare and in its undisturbed state, peat ccumulates carbon from the air at a rate of up to 0.7 tonnes per hectare per year. Over the long-term, Peatlands are considered to be the most effective carbon sinks only surpassed by our Oceans.

Sounds like an argument for banning the practice of cutting them up and burning them to me.

washman3

MadsL wrote: »

Loads?

Some 2,668 people have applied for the compensation scheme to date with 1,888 opting for the financial compensation deal of €1,500 a year for 15 years as well as a once off sign-up payment of €500.

http://www.thejournal.ie/turf-cutters-compensation-3-926600-May2013/

Unless you mean people who have accepted payments and continue to cut under the rabble rousing of people like Ming.

Have you concrete evidence that people accepted compensation payments and still continue to turf.?
If you have, I agree that this is wrong and these people should be dealt with accordingly.
That said, its about the only thing we agree on.!

Jericho.

MadsL wrote: »

Rather vague allegations there, who specifically do you mean?

I assume you voted for at least a couple of them. If not, do enlighten me.

Equally as vague as your comment about believing Irish and EU law are optional. Would you care to tell me what Ming has been convicted of since he started to serve as a TD?

Look it, the way things are here in this country we all get pushed further and further and nobody does anything. The powers that be will then keep pushing. I don't personally care about the turf but Ming and folk out his neck of the woods clearly do. He's standing beside the people that voted him in like he said he would. It was one of the issues he was elected on.

As I said above above, I don't care about turf cutting but I might care about the next thing and I'd be glad of someone like Ming around that actually listens, raises issues brought to him, takes action and keeps his election promises.

Boombastic

I crossed the road near, but not on the pedestrian crossing earlier. If the boys in blue waste their time with the turf, should I be worried, are they coming for me next?

MadsL

Jericho. wrote: »

Equally as vague as your comment about believing Irish and EU law are optional. Would you care to tell me what Ming has been convicted of since he started to serve as a TD?

Using a mobile phone whilst driving perhaps? He's been convicted twice.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ming-flanagan-on-e9k-signpost-donation-im-keeping-my-election-promise-467425-May2012/

Look it, the way things are here in this country we all get pushed further and further and nobody does anything. The powers that be will then keep pushing. I don't personally care about the turf but Ming and folk out his neck of the woods clearly do. He's standing beside the people that voted him in like he said he would. It was one of the issues he was elected on.

Isn't there a difference between campaigning and speaking in favour of legislation change and actually breaking the law yourself - would you support those who campaign for abortion reform setting up abortion clinics and performing abortions?

As I said above above, I don't care about turf cutting but I might care about the next thing and I'd be glad of someone like Ming around that actually listens, raises issues brought to him, takes action and keeps his election promises.

Keeps his election promises?
http://www.thejournal.ie/ming-flanagan-on-e9k-signpost-donation-im-keeping-my-election-promise-467425-May2012/
Undocumented 'donations'? Not exactly transparent.
Still waiting for his legalisation of cannabis bill

Ming "I can do great things" Flanagan... yeah, whatever.

washman3 wrote: »

Have you concrete evidence that people accepted compensation payments and still continue to turf.?
If you have, I agree that this is wrong and these people should be dealt with accordingly.
That said, its about the only thing we agree on.!

We have 2,668 people applying for compensation and 53 bogs, so unless you think it is only one or two people benefitting from illegal cutting...

Boombastic wrote: »

I crossed the road near, but not on the pedestrian crossing earlier. If the boys in blue waste their time with the turf, should I be worried, are they coming for me next?

Have you some other definition of illegal in mind?

Jericho.

MadsL wrote: »

Using a mobile phone whilst driving perhaps? He's been convicted twice.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ming-flanagan-on-e9k-signpost-donation-im-keeping-my-election-promise-467425-May2012/




Isn't there a difference between campaigning and speaking in favour of legislation change and actually breaking the law yourself - would you support those who campaign for abortion reform setting up abortion clinics and performing abortions?



Keeps his election promises?
http://www.thejournal.ie/ming-flanagan-on-e9k-signpost-donation-im-keeping-my-election-promise-467425-May2012/
Undocumented 'donations'? Not exactly transparent.
Still waiting for his legalisation of cannabis bill

Ming "I can do great things" Flanagan... yeah, whatever.



We have 2,668 people applying for compensation and 53 bogs, so unless you think it is only one or two people benefitting from illegal cutting...




Have you some other definition of illegal in mind?

He was never convicted of the mobile phone stuff.

He's being rather gracious I think by not saying who he's given his money too and not making a big deal out of it. Some of it has come out when people have questioned where the money is coming from, that's always kinda bound to happen but I see no big problem with any of the stuff that he has supported. Would you rather he kept the money in his own pocket? You're trying to imply he hasn't kept his promises but he has. I think what he's doing is great.

His legalisation of cannabis bill is scheduled to be debated in the Dáil in late October. It's hardly his fault the wheels turn slowly and there's likely little appetite to have it debated within the Dáil. I think it's progress to have it discussed at all.

washman3

MadsL wrote: »

We have 2,668 people applying for compensation and 53 bogs, so unless you think it is only one or two people benefitting from illegal cutting...

Well I can virtually guarantee you that if I took compensation and rode off into the sunset, other people would be queueing up to cut my bog. so unless you have concrete evidence that people are receiving compensation and still cutting refrain from commenting. if you have, then report them.
but bandying averages and figures about is little evidence.
how many people have received compo.?
how many are awaiting compo.?
how many have received alternative bogs.?
how many are waiting alternative bogs.?

Boombastic

MadsL wrote: »

.............
Have you some other definition of illegal in mind?

No..Road Traffic General Bye-Laws (Amendment) Regulations, 1993

Use of zebra crossings
38.—(1) On a roadway on which a zebra crossing has been provided a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 50 feet of the crossing except by the crossing


A crime is a crime. How long of a stretch would I be looking at in the big house, 15 years?

How are bord na mona doing these days? Were any of their bogs 'protected'?

bleg

I actually like Ming. I agree with few of his ideals and comments and find him a bit back dated but he's just representing the community that elected him. If we want a representative democracy then there is a place for him. The Dail and political reporting would be a much duller place without him, like him or loathe him, don't you think?

MadsL

Boombastic wrote: »

No..Road Traffic General Bye-Laws (Amendment) Regulations, 1993

Use of zebra crossings
38.—(1) On a roadway on which a zebra crossing has been provided a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 50 feet of the crossing except by the crossing


A crime is a crime. How long of a stretch would I be looking at in the big house, 15 years?

As you just looked up the act why don't you tell me?

I can tell you that those convicted of illegal turf cutting are looking at a fine of €1500 and/or six months prison.

How are bord na mona doing these days? Were any of their bogs 'protected'?

That particular red herring is still bright crimson. BnM are not cutting any protected bog - do you understand why active raised bog is protected?

Any protected bogs in BnM ownership have been transferred into conservation.

MadsL

washman3 wrote: »

Well I can virtually guarantee you that if I took compensation and rode off into the sunset, other people would be queueing up to cut my bog. ?

Is it a SAC? If not then no compensation is payable If yes, then why are still cutting it?

My understanding is that you either have turbery rights or own the bog. I wasn't aware it was a wild-west stake-a-claim type affair.

Accepting compensation extinguishes turbery rights so therefore no-one can "queue up"

As to those who have taken payments, I'll try and dig out an article on some who have taken payments and gone back to cutting, I remember Ming mentioning it in an interview. Bear with me.

flynnlives

whats with all the ming hate op?
you seem to be very interested in his affairs

do you secretly love ming or something

c'mon, your amongst friends here, tells us, why do you love Ming?

Red Pepper

I like Ming. And I fcuking love turf!!

MadsL

Jericho. wrote: »

He was never convicted of the mobile phone stuff.

And yet the Gardai wiped two sets of penalty points - summary convictions are still convictions.

He's being rather gracious I think by not saying who he's given his money too and not making a big deal out of it. Some of it has come out when people have questioned where the money is coming from, that's always kinda bound to happen but I see no big problem with any of the stuff that he has supported. Would you rather he kept the money in his own pocket? You're trying to imply he hasn't kept his promises but he has. I think what he's doing is great.

It's a terrible idea - effectively he gets to use up to half his Dáil salary as a political slush fund and give funding to those projects he chooses and never names. Secret funding of a political nature is the antithesis of transparency. All the while claiming both that he is "sacrificing his salary" and ignoring the fact he gets a leaders allowance.

His legalisation of cannabis bill is scheduled to be debated in the Dáil in late October. It's hardly his fault the wheels turn slowly and there's likely little appetite to have it debated within the Dáil. I think it's progress to have it discussed at all.

Fair enough, I don't think he has submitted the heads of bill yet though so that remains to be seen.

skimpydoo

Royal Irish wrote: »

Ming for Tea Shock!!

Liveline is over for the week Joe.

Hootanany

MadsL wrote: »

source

Perhaps Ming believes he has friends in the Gardai?
I admit I have no idea if his bog is a SAC and therefore illegal to cut, but if it is I have no idea why he would not be charged, and if convicted asked to resign.

On the other hand...arresting a figurehead will give the "rebel" turfcutters a martyr to rally around.

What does AH think of Ming's grandstanding?

And.

OpenYourEyes

His bog is an SAC so he is breaking the law (every year). As someone breaking the law, he should be arrested. That being said, he would love to be arrested because of all of the attention it would bring him and because it would make him a martyr for the poor, hard-done-by rural folk of Roscommon/South Leitrim and help him get re-elected.


So I don't want to see him get arrested for that reason. The people of his constituency are becoming increasingly fed up with him so he knows he needs another gimmick to try and boost his votes before the next election. I'd rather we didn't give him that gimmick and let him fade off into obscurity after the next election.