There is no reason why we can't putt as good as a pro

realgolfgeek

Adding this poll, as I'm very curious how many people actually think this.

I'm starting with a big fat disagree.

peepee

If it was our full time job then Yes there is no reason why we couldn't putt as good as the average pro. But for a 9-5 working joe with a family then NO WAY

Domo86

this is nonsense and a good example of some of the horsesh8t posts that are starting to clutter up an otherwise decent forum

realgolfgeek

peepee wrote: »

If it was our full time job then Yes

we'd be a pro then

realgolfgeek

Domo86 wrote: »

this is nonsense and a good example of some of the horsesh8t posts that are starting to clutter up an otherwise decent forum

nonsense as in you obviously disagree ?

or just plain nonsense ?

PARlance

Putt with the same stats as a pro is it?
Or have the same putting ability?

Because, with a massive amount of both talent and effort I think a good amatuer could get close in terms of putting stats.

But in terms of skill and ability they still wouldn't be near a Pro.
There aint too many greens over here that come anywhere near the difficultly (a combination of contours etc, but most importantly stimpmeter levels) that a tour pro faces on a weekly basis...

bustercherry

Which pro? If it's Lee Westwood, you should add an additional option "There is no reason why we can't putt better than a pro"

mag

theres no reason you cant putt like a pro if you practice a few hours a day, map greens diligently, employ a caddy that can read greens well, play on courses that have pretty much uniformly great greens, hire a putting coach & spend half the year in florida. no reason apart from those reasons....

GreeBo

Disagree

poll needs more options and clarification, it's too open at the moment.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

poll needs more options and clarification, it's too open at the moment.

Why make things complicated, it's not a difficult question.

By putting as good as a pro, I don't mean PPR.

I mean can we be as good as the tour players in putting from 5, 10, 15, 20, 40, 80 feet.

according to some folk, there is no reason we can't.

Rikand

Disagree

There's no reason why I can't putt as good as a pro

realgolfgeek

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

There's no reason why I can't putt as good as a pro

so why don't you ?

Rikand

Disagree

realgolfgeek wrote: »

so why don't you ?

I just don't

But there's no reason why I shouldnt be able to

realgolfgeek

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

I just don't

But there's no reason why I shouldnt be able to

I can't believe you actually typed that.

gorfield

I do Putt as good as a pro, I'm just **** at the rest of it! This is a pointless thread. Pros putt on perfect greens we rarely do

For Paws

There's no other way, apart from PPR, that you could compare the average golfer with a professional golfer.

The advantage, if any would lie with the AG in that he / she would be playing mostly the same course, and have only to contend on greens with lower stimp meter readings (allowing them to putt more agressively in general).

The difficulties of putting on fast / grainy / multi-grassed greens would face the PG, and counter balance his / her advantages (practice / coaching / caddie advice).

The only ingredient worth mentioning that might make a consistent difference
is PRESSURE. In that respect the PG would have the advantage.

realgolfgeek

For Paws wrote: »

There's no other way, apart from PPR, that you could compare the average golfer with a professional golfer.

I'm not talking about average golfer in general vs professional golfer in general.
I'm merely talking about putting and nothing else.
PPR doesn't give an indication of the true difference between a pga tour pro in terms of putting and an amateur as the amateurs hit f*ck all GIR.

I'm talking about just putting as I said, from 5 to 80 feet.

Rikand

Disagree

gorfield wrote: »

Pros putt on perfect greens we rarely do

this

I go to tullamore though and I hole everything!

John Divney

I think there is no reason to not learn to read greens to a good standard, and get the line of putts right.

However, getting pace of putts anywhere near the level of pros is the difference, this is a skill that it takes full time golfers to master.

Almaviva

Zero chance is overstating the odds I think.

What is it about golf that has people ask such questions ?

As with all sports, people have varying degrees of skill - probably with a normal distribution curve. Even within the touring pro ranks there is a clear range of putting ability. Let in the rest of the population and it widens hugely. Why they even consider that they could all be as good as the best beats me.

For Paws

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I'm not talking about average golfer in general vs professional golfer in general.
I'm merely talking about putting and nothing else.
PPR doesn't give an indication of the true difference between a pga tour pro in terms of putting and an amateur as the amateurs hit f*ck all GIR.

I'm talking about just putting as I said, from 5 to 80 feet.

On what green ?. Random green in Tour event or random green at AG's home course. At what stimp reading ?. Would the PG have to use a Pinnacle ball ?
PG plays for money, AG can't, thus pressure off PG in a 'friendly' competition.

No real comparison achievable in your scenario. Back to season PPR.

realgolfgeek

For Paws wrote: »

On what green ?. Random green in Tour event or random green at AG's home course. At what stimp reading ?. Would the PG have to use a Pinnacle ball ?
PG plays for money, AG can't, thus pressure off PG in a 'friendly' competition.

No real comparison achievable in your scenario. Back to season PPR.

god, do I honestly have to spell it out for you.
It really isn't that difficult to understand.

I'm not talking about PPR, do you actually understand that.
Do you realise a mid to high handicap can actually have a very low PPR. His driving and irons may be absolute muck, but he may be a seve around the greens.

I'm talking about PUTTING, P-U-T-T-I-N-G, mother of god.

Domo86

I putt the ball 300+ yards on a regular basis

GreeBo

Disagree

gorfield wrote: »

I do Putt as good as a pro, I'm just **** at the rest of it! This is a pointless thread. Pros putt on perfect greens we rarely do

but yet voted disagree?
confused.com

putting skill is green independent, your performance might be better on better greens, but you don't lose skill levels.
Look at United playing in a crap pitch, they are the same skillful players, but went get the same results on a poor surface.

eagle eye

Disagree

I believe that anybody can be as good as a top pro on the greens. From my own experience and I was a terrible putter. I even tried putting left handed at one stage and got my putting down to 30 putts per round average playing that way. I then found the right putter for me(right handed) and worked very hard on it.

Some of the things that I fixed by watching youtube videos and working on it were keeping the head down through the putting stroke, opening my stance so I can see the line, changing my grip because I used to break my wrist ever so slightly, the pendulum swing and more.

I was out of the game for five years due to illness and when I came back everybody was saying my putting was awesome but I wasn't happy with it even though it was better than most players in my club. I worked hard on it again and in my last four rounds have averaged 28 putts per round. I expect to continue putting to that level now and I don't think there are too many who can do better than that.

I'm not a very low handicap golfer but hopefully with a few lessons and hard work I can fix that soon.

For Paws

realgolfgeek wrote: »

god, do I honestly have to spell it out for you.
It really isn't that difficult to understand.

I'm not talking about PPR, do you actually understand that.
Do you realise a mid to high handicap can actually have a very low PPR. His driving and irons may be absolute muck, but he may be a seve around the greens.

I'm talking about PUTTING, P-U-T-T-I-N-G, mother of god.

Fine then. Take an average amateur golfer (AG) & and average professional golfer (PG) and get them to have a putting competition.

Now since it's seems to be the best way to make a point, I'm now going to use only uppercase letters.

WHICH GREEN WILL THEY COMPETE ON ?
ONE WHICH THE PG PLAYS 4 ROUNDS A YEAR ON OR ONE THAT THE AG PLAYS 40 ROUNDS A YEAR ON ? ETC, ETC, ETC

ARE WE THERE YET ?, ARE WE THERE YET ?

eagle eye

Disagree

For Paws wrote: »

Fine then. Take an average amateur golfer (AG) & and average professional golfer (PG) and get them to have a putting competition.

Now since it's seems to be the best way to make a point, I'm now going to use only uppercase letters.

WHICH GREEN WILL THEY COMPETE ON ?
ONE WHICH THE PG PLAYS 4 ROUNDS A YEAR ON OR ONE THAT THE AG PLAYS 40 ROUNDS A YEAR ON ? ETC, ETC, ETC

ARE WE THERE YET ?, ARE WE THERE YET ?

'There is no reason why we can't putt as good as a pro'

Did you read what the poll asks? This is not about an average player doing his usual. This is about whether a person can be as good as a pro.

Seve OB

Disagree

In the space of a week, a tour pro will probably spend more time on putting greens practicing, than most of us do on a golf course, so it makes sense that us mere mortals should be not be able to putt as good as them.

However, on the courses and greens we play on (which are not in the same league as those on tour) for any half decent golfer, we should all really be able to come away with no more that a 2 putt, lets say 9 times out of 10.

Now if we are going to compare stats like PPR, I think stats for any amateur up to about 10 handicap should easily compare with those of an average tour pro. But I actually think it's more complicated than that. Tour Pros are hot when it comes to sticking it to the PIN from within 150 yards or so. So in theory, for an amateur who's stats compare favourably with those of a tour pro, it could be said that the amateur is most likely a better putter because he is not so accurate with his approach shots and therefore has made more putting distance than the Pro in a similar amount of strokes!

I myself have found that over the last few years my putting has become so much better and thats without any practice, just playing the games I play, and generally 15 minutes on the putting green beforehand. I play off 12 now and up till a few years ago, was playing off 19. The improvement in my putting is the easily 90% of the reason my handicap has reduced. I have gone from a regular 3 putter and plenty of 4's, to being confident that anything up to about 15 ft is well within my range. Anything sunk over that length is probably 50% skill and 50% luck. I probably average around 30 putts per round. I'd say I probably sink 80% of putts up to 10 ft in length, and maybe 50% of putts up to about 15ft.

I would say that for Pro's anything up to about 20-25ft is probably within their range and anything drained over that length has an element of luck in in. Oh......and we can safely say that anything up to about 30ft for Tiger isn't much more than a tap-in!

realgolfgeek

For Paws wrote: »

Fine then. Take an average amateur golfer (AG) & and average professional golfer (PG) and get them to have a putting competition.

Now since it's seems to be the best way to make a point, I'm now going to use only uppercase letters.

WHICH GREEN WILL THEY COMPETE ON ?
ONE WHICH THE PG PLAYS 4 ROUNDS A YEAR ON OR ONE THAT THE AG PLAYS 40 ROUNDS A YEAR ON ? ETC, ETC, ETC

ARE WE THERE YET ?, ARE WE THERE YET ?

lol

you STILL don't get it, unbelievable.
I'll play along though with your little competition.

Let's say the green is a beautiful green, nice contours etc, which neither the AG or the PG has ever played before. They can both have a nice warm up.
You tell me what the outcome, the majority of the time would be ?

realgolfgeek

I'm actually shocked that many people agreed.

Yet, amazingly, none (oh, maybe one), can putt as good as a pro.

But why ? According to a few people, there is no reason why they can't !!!
That, to me, is just plain stupid. Why, if you can putt like a pro, why don't you do it and reduce your handicaps by 4,5,6 shots.

Oh wait, cause you're practicing your ball striking.

Honestly never heard such trash.

For Paws

realgolfgeek wrote: »

lol

you STILL don't get it, unbelievable.
I'll play along though with your little competition.

Let's say the green is a beautiful green, nice contours etc, which neither the AG or the PG has ever played before. They can both have a nice warm up.
You tell me what the outcome, the majority of the time would be ?

Stimp reading comparable to what the PG IS used to, or the AG is used to ?

realgolfgeek

For Paws wrote: »

Stimp reading comparable to what the PG IS used to, or the AG is used to ?

oh, I'll let you choose.

For Paws

realgolfgeek wrote: »

oh, I'll let you choose.

Stimp reading of 16 so.

How are we to rate a 'successful' putt ?
Only those holed from 50 feet to begin with ?

DuckSlice

Disagree

Some people will be able to some people won't, it's down to individual ability and commitment.

GreeBo

Disagree

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I'm actually shocked that many people agreed.

Yet, amazingly, none (oh, maybe one), can putt as good as a pro.

But why ? According to a few people, there is no reason why they can't !!!
That, to me, is just plain stupid. Why, if you can putt like a pro, why don't you do it and reduce your handicaps by 4,5,6 shots.

Oh wait, cause you're practicing your ball striking.

Honestly never heard such trash.

For me to put in the same effort as a pro does in their putting I wouldnt be able to work on my long game at all, and my overall scores would suffer. No putting can save you if you arent getting on in GIR+1.

I have the physical capabilities to be as good as any pro, however I dont have the ability to put in the same amount of practice as they do.
Of all the facets of golf, putting is the easiest.
It would take me far longer and far more effort to drive like a pro; hence I believe that putting like a Pro putts is inherently possible for everyone.


/aside
If you are trying to influence people and change their opinions I'd suggest you try a different tactic than "constant ridicule".

I'd give you a fat 1/10 on your debating skills.

Consider me out of your "conversation" at this point.

Miley Byrne

stevieob wrote: »

I probably average around 30 putts per round. I'd say I probably sink 80% of putts up to 10 ft in length, and maybe 50% of putts up to about 15ft.

That doesn't really tell us anything though. Up to 10 feet could include 8 1-footers and 2 10-footers. So you make the 8 1-footers and miss the 2 10-footers. Thats 80%. Luke Donald for example holes 57.14% of 5-10 footers. And 36.92% of 10-15 footers. I'm just saying that saying you hole 80% of putts up to 10 feet is meaningless.

For what it's worth I think the only way to putt like a pro is to dedicate as much time to it as a pro. And thats near impossible for an amateur to do.

Myksyk

I don't know but people are voting that there are no reasons they can't putt like a pro ... and then post all the reasons they can't putt like a pro.

GreeBo

Disagree

Myksyk wrote: »

I don't know but people are voting that there are no reasons they can't putt like a pro ... and then post all the reasons they can't don't putt like a pro.

FYP.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

For me to put in the same effort as a pro does in their putting I wouldnt be able to work on my long game at all, and my overall scores would suffer. No putting can save you if you arent getting on in GIR+1.

ok, so that's one reason is it not ?

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd give you a fat 1/10 on your debating skills.

thanks, I won't comment on your moderation abilities. After all, that would be going off topic.

realgolfgeek

For Paws wrote: »

Stimp reading of 16 so.

How are we to rate a 'successful' putt ?
Only those holed from 50 feet to begin with ?

Sure, let's go with that.

Myksyk

Touché. :pac:

However, on a more serious note, I find the the "I'd be as good as any of them if I only had the time" to be a bogus argument. Time (i.e. practice) is only one factor amongst many that distinguishes people in performance settings. If not all the tour pros would congregate more closely around the various aspects of the game.

The fact is that even within the tiny, very top performance margin which the pros inhabit, there are many factors which account for the individual differences in performance which we observe. These include different types and levels of:
1. Physical intelligence - e.g. gross and fine motor skills, ability to observe, assess and manipulate spatial information received through the senses, speed at which the individual can respond to physical stimuli and change physical responses and processes [i.e. the ability to benefit from practice] etc.
2. Personal Traits - e.g. social/developmental/ psychological factors - resulting in varying levels of concentration, motivation, reaction to stress, drive and commitment, competitiveness, self-confidence, response to failure and success, personality traits, emotional reactions etc etc etc).
3. History - the effect of past experiences on 1. and 2.
4. Practice - How much, what type,


There are many more factors which contribute to the complex area of individual differences and the study of performance in humans. Of the 50,000 or so golf pros in the US only a tiny fraction of a percent make it into the top 100 golfers in the world despite obvious commitment, time, effort, talent etc. Other things are at work which distinguish the top 0.1 per cent of the players of the game. Time and practice alone will not cut it when it comes to trying to make it into that margin.

GreeBo

Disagree

Myksyk wrote: »

Touché. :pac:

However, on a more serious note, I find the the "I'd be as good as any of them if I only had the time" to be a bogus argument. Time (i.e. practice) is only one factor amongst many that distinguishes people in performance settings. If not all the tour pros would congregate more closely around the various aspects of the game.

The fact is that even within the tiny, very top performance margin which the pros inhabit, there are many factors which account for the individual differences in performance which we observe. These include different types and levels of:
1. Physical intelligence - e.g. gross and fine motor skills, ability to observe, assess and manipulate spatial information received through the senses, speed at which the individual can respond to physical stimuli and change physical responses and processes [i.e. the ability to benefit from practice] etc.
2. Personal Traits - e.g. social/developmental/ psychological factors - resulting in varying levels of concentration, motivation, reaction to stress, drive and commitment, competitiveness, self-confidence, response to failure and success, personality traits, emotional reactions etc etc etc).
3. History - the effect of past experiences on 1. and 2.
4. Practice - How much, what type,


There are many more factors which contribute to the complex area of individual differences and the study of performance in humans. Of the 50,000 or so golf pros in the US only a tiny fraction of a percent make it into the top 100 golfers in the world despite obvious commitment, time, effort, talent etc. Other things are at work which distinguish the top 0.1 per cent of the players of the game. Time and practice alone will not cut it when it comes to trying to make it into that margin.

100% agreed.
But I think the point is that there is nothing inherently stopping any of us hackers from becoming as good a putter (lets say top 10% as a random number) as a Pro.
They arent bestowed with some magical ability that we will never be able to attain. Hard work got them there. Hard work that any of us could also put in.

Sure there are some of them with more natural ability than others, in exactly the same was as there is a guy in a paddy field on the other side of the world who has a natural gift for darts, everyone has more or less natural ability than everyone else. I could naturally be the greatest putter the world has ever seen, but without practice no one will know.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

100% agreed.
But I think the point is that there is nothing inherently stopping any of us hackers from becoming as good a putter (lets say top 10% as a random number) as a Pro..

So it's now gone to say 10% (as a random number) of us hackers can be as good as a pro ?.

Big difference there Greebo, BIG difference in what you've been saying.

a) you're giving reasons
b) Any of us, or all of us could be come as good at putting as a pro, has suddenly gone to 10%.

Jimdagym

realgolfgeek wrote: »

So it's now gone to say 10% (as a random number) of us hackers can be as good as a pro ?.

Big difference there Greebo, BIG difference in what you've been saying.

a) you're giving reasons
b) Any of us, or all of us could be come as good at putting as a pro, has suddenly gone to 10%.

Don't think you are taking greebo up right there.

realgolfgeek

Jimdagym wrote: »

Don't think you are taking greebo up right there.

probably not, must be his debating skills that has me confused.

fullstop

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

I just don't

But there's no reason why I shouldnt be able to

Lack of ability and consistency? It's like saying that you hit the odd drive 320 yards so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

DuckSlice

Disagree

fullstop wrote: »

Lack of ability and consistency? It's like saying that you hit the odd drive 320 yards so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to all the time. It just doesn't work like that.

You can't just say that he hasn't got the ability you don't even know him.

fullstop

etxp wrote: »

You can't just say that he hasn't got the ability you don't even know him.

Note the question mark. Seems a likely explanation all the same, does it not?

spacecoyote

stevieob wrote: »

I have gone from a regular 3 putter and plenty of 4's, to being confident that anything up to about 15 ft is well within my range. Anything sunk over that length is probably 50% skill and 50% luck. I probably average around 30 putts per round. I'd say I probably sink 80% of putts up to 10 ft in length, and maybe 50% of putts up to about 15ft.

I think we can safely say that if those are your actual putting stats then you are already a better putter than every pro on tour.

I think the tour average is something like around 60% made from 6ft and around 28% from 10 feet. And the numbers fall off a cliff outside of 10ft

fullstop

spacecoyote wrote: »

I think we can safely say that if those are your actual putting stats then you are already a better putter than every pro on tour.

I think the tour average is something like around 60% made from 6ft and around 28% from 10 feet. And the numbers fall off a cliff outside of 10ft

Exactly. Fantasy stuff for some people, it's like the 'how far do you hit your drives' threads. 80% of putts up to 10 feet?

Almaviva

stevieob wrote: »

I have gone from a regular 3 putter and plenty of 4's, to being confident that anything up to about 15 ft is well within my range. Anything sunk over that length is probably 50% skill and 50% luck. I probably average around 30 putts per round. I'd say I probably sink 80% of putts up to 10 ft in length, and maybe 50% of putts up to about 15ft.

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats utter nonsense I'd say. Start keeping a few notes if you doubt the following and report back to us.

Anything up to 15ft may well be in your range (50 yards is in my range but I'll probably never hole one!), but you are probably not holing more than than one in ten of them (putting green repeats does not count - real world on the course first putts only). Tour pros get about 1 in 5 or 6.

You probably do hole about 80% of putts up to 10 feet - most of them being taps in. Of those actually 10ft long, probably about 1 in 5 at best.