moorepark

PMU

which exit do I take for moorepark off the Dublin-cork motorway?

Sam Kade

Mitchelstown, then go towards Fermoy.

PMU

thanx

jomoloney

well how did it go ?

C0N0R

I thought it was good, interesting day out. Auld man ain't to impressed that the things I've been harping on about since I came home is what was mentioned strongly today!!

slippy wicket

C0N0R wrote: »

I thought it was good, interesting day out. Auld man ain't to impressed that the things I've been harping on about since I came home is what was mentioned strongly today!!

Sure thats the nature of the beast.
You're not doing too bad if you can get the auld feckers to acknowledge that they can be wrong.

Plenty of feckers out there that even when they are wrong they are still right :mad:

delaval

Thought it was an excellent day. A lot of old hat but the crowd was big and young which was really encouraging.
The messag on expansion was go forward slowly being sure your core business is in rude health first.

Hats off to Teagasc we are really lucky to have Moorepark, we are the envy of Europe and especially the Uk whose industry is being led by the 'cake reps'.

Conor wishing you bon voyage. I know you'll be busy but keep us posted. You're old man can relax now you are gone and go back to his own ways!!!!!

delaval

I think this board told it all!!

darragh_haven

delaval wrote: »

I think this board told it all!!

I read through all that board. The supprising figure was profit/cow in the average herd. €0?

Timmaay

darragh_haven wrote: »

I read through all that board. The supprising figure was profit/cow in the average herd. €0?

Excluding full labour. So basically the average dairyfarmer just about pays himself, and has no money to build the business etc. However most of us know that the average farmer does not in anyway pay himself close on what he should for the hours he works, so that's where the money for growing the business etc comes from! SFP often not included either.

I'm probably sitting just under the average figure at the minute! Plenty of room to improve!

kowtow

I was really, really impressed by Moore Park - both as a facility and by the way they got their message across.

Whether or not you agree wholly with the business model upon which they are so keen - and I don't - you've got to take your hat off to any organisation which can take a few thousand people of varying abilities from "no plan at all" to a solid framework for a business plan in the space of a five acre paddock with refreshment tents at both ends.

I was quite surprised at the number of people standing around for whom planning a business - and indeed grass measuring - appeared to be a novel concept. The guy talking on the first stand summed it up pretty well - "Most of you look like you are already expanding, how many of you have a plan?"

The looks on the faces said it all.

My first thought was that heifers could be very cheap in 2016 or 2017.

bob charles

Did they just present their way of thinking or were other options explored? Was it sunny in moorepark? Figures always look better in the sun

kowtow

bob charles wrote: »

Did they just present their way of thinking or were other options explored? Was it sunny in moorepark? Figures always look better in the sun

I think it was all pretty much grass, grass, grass - but carefully measured grass, not just any old stuff. Breeding, Health, and Fertility all played important supporting roles.

There was a winter milk stand tucked away where a number of furtive conversations seemed to be taking place, some of which may have involved fodder other than grass, but I think he might have been closed down when the rest found out.

And at the end of the parade - inexplicably - if having explored all the options you had decided that milk from grass wasn't for you, there was a board explaining your alternative option.

Which was pigs.

C0N0R

delaval wrote: »

I think this board told it all!!

Cheers delaval, I'm terrible about talking about meself but if you see me about here question all you want!

That board made the day for me, startling figures, and that top line is only the average, god help the bottom 50%!

What I took from it is you don't have to expand, efficiency is key be it with grass and fertility etc. and they are correct in my eyes, make the best of what you have before you go looking for me. I've seen plenty of examples of things the other way and possibly losing money and facing a super levy!

C0N0R

kowtow wrote: »

I think it was all pretty much grass, grass, grass - but carefully measured grass, not just any old stuff. Breeding, Health, and Fertility all played important supporting roles.

There was a winter milk stand tucked away where a number of furtive conversations seemed to be taking place, some of which may have involved fodder other than grass, but I think he might have been closed down when the rest found out.

And at the end of the parade - inexplicably - if having explored all the options you had decided that milk from grass wasn't for you, there was a board explaining your alternative option.

Which was pigs.

Yeah was at the winter milk one for a while, Joe Patton was getting it tough from a few lads at times! One guy was fixated on whether he should go maize of whole crop, hope it wasn't any of ye lads! But what he was saying is correct, very nice guy.

Saw the pig board, stayed well away from that!!

stanflt

C0N0R wrote: »

Yeah was at the winter milk one for a while, Joe Patton was getting it tough from a few lads at times! One guy was fixated on whether he should go maize of whole crop, hope it wasn't any of ye lads! But what he was saying is correct, very nice guy.

Saw the pig board, stayed well away from that!!

the doc is well able to handle himself- has helped turn my farm inside out
im a winter milking herd


think profit of 750 is very low per cow as a target

didnt get to moorepark but have a discussion group meeting at 7 so joe will fill me in

C0N0R

stanflt wrote: »

the doc is well able to handle himself- has helped turn my farm inside out
im a winter milking herd


think profit of 750 is very low per cow as a target

didnt get to moorepark but have a discussion group meeting at 7 so joe will fill me in

Would have liked to hear more of what he had to say but didn't have the time, defiantly is someone I'd like to chat to more if I was to come home.

delaval

stanflt wrote: »

the doc is well able to handle himself- has helped turn my farm inside out
im a winter milking herd


think profit of 750 is very low per cow as a target

didnt get to moorepark but have a discussion group meeting at 7 so joe will fill me in

Stan
That was my thought exactly. They were talking of 15-20 tonnes dm grass a high target by any measure but 750 seemed low. That board had no SFP included.
Will you quiz DOC and get back?

PMU

I have never seen as much information at an open day anywhere. plenty of books and brochures to take away and study.All the staff on the stands were very informative as well. I didn't hear the lads in the forum , how did that go?
ps I got sunburnt, first time in about 3 years

delaval

PMU wrote: »

I have never seen as much information at an open day anywhere. plenty of books and brochures to take away and study.All the staff on the stands were very informative as well. I didn't hear the lads in the forum , how did that go?
ps I got sunburnt, first time in about 3 years

Forum was excellent, what I heard. Guys who had started at cows recently and guys who went from 60-100 cows. I was really practical stuff.

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Did they just present their way of thinking or were other options explored? Was it sunny in moorepark? Figures always look better in the sun

What do you mean by other options?

The figures used were all from farmers and not research farms

It was sunny and all wre in great form. I was talking to a co-op board man who said it was a picnic, good weather and price. I'd say he was far away this time last year;)

delaval

kowtow wrote: »

I think it was all pretty much grass, grass, grass - but carefully measured grass, not just any old stuff. Breeding, Health, and Fertility all played important supporting roles.

There was a winter milk stand tucked away where a number of furtive conversations seemed to be taking place, some of which may have involved fodder other than grass, but I think he might have been closed down when the rest found out.

And at the end of the parade - inexplicably - if having explored all the options you had decided that milk from grass wasn't for you, there was a board explaining your alternative option.

Which was pigs.

I wouldn't have considered tucked away and it would have been bypassed had it been anywhere else. The constitiuency for winter milk is small. Unless one has a liquid contract or a Baileys contract what possible reason could you have for visiting the stand?

Joe Patton is as knowledgable a person as you could meet on the whole subject and I fee it was well covered.

delaval

delaval wrote: »

I wouldn't have considered tucked away and it would have been bypassed had it been anywhere else. The constitiuency for winter milk is small. Unless one has a liquid contract or a Baileys contract what possible reason could you have for visiting the stand?

Joe Patton is as knowledgable a person as you could meet on the whole subject and I fee it was well covered.

Here is winter milk board

stop thelights

stanflt wrote: »

the doc is well able to handle himself- has helped turn my farm inside out
im a winter milking herd


think profit of 750 is very low per cow as a target

didnt get to moorepark but have a discussion group meeting at 7 so joe will fill me in

Only had the chance to listen to the doc at a meeting bout 12months ago and found it very informative!

Missed him on the day saw the stand but think he was finished his talks

He had a talk lately about how to increase milk solids for the winter period? Anyone have information bout that??

Timmaay

stop thelights wrote: »

He had a talk lately about how to increase milk solids for the winter period? Anyone have information bout that??

Hmm that could be extremely useful for me, given that our protein dives under 3% most winters!

just do it

delaval wrote: »

I think this board told it all!!

Worth displaying:

stop thelights

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmm that could be extremely useful for me, given that our protein dives under 3% most winters!

Ya we're getting paid on solids for the first time this winter so it would be interesting to know what would influence protein and butterfat levels.

I've heard people talking bout feeding wheat to increase protein and wheaten straw through diet feeder to bring up butterfat levels..........

then again I'm prob way off but it's something we have to get on top of for this winter!

just do it

Some simple messages on that board for all!
1. Efficiency is more important than expansion - the top 10% of farmers can earn the average wage with 50 cows, top 33% require 85, and the average farmer requires 135!
2. Doubling the amount of concentrate fed only allows an increase of stocking rate of between 6-11% depending on amount of grass grown.
3. Increasing the amount of grass you grow allows a much greater increase in SR e.g. 60% in grass grown allows an increase in optimal SR by 66%.
And a simple message at the top that we can all at times be too busy to remember:
"Enjoy family lifestyle"

kowtow

C0N0R wrote: »

Would have liked to hear more of what he had to say but didn't have the time, defiantly is someone I'd like to chat to more if I was to come home.

He impressed me as well - had a brief chat to him, would certainly welcome an opportunity to hear more.

kowtow

delaval wrote: »

Unless one has a liquid contract or a Baileys contract what possible reason could you have for visiting the stand?

I had left my lighter in the car, and he looked as though he might have one.

just do it

delaval wrote: »

Here is winter milk board

I don't know about that fella Patton, he reckons there's two Septembers in the year!

Sam Kade

just do it wrote: »

Worth displaying:

That's a big difference to the last time I there 5 years ago. Back then they were promoting getting enough land to milk 500 cows when quotas go. Build a low cost milking parlour and have a stand off pad Spend two years working at a loss before making profit in the third year. If you lost the lease of the land you could dismantle the milking parlour and move to another location. You would have some fun trying to get 500 acres in one block in Ireland.

keep going

didnt make it to it but was look at todays farm preview and the empises seems to have changed from it being a cow numbers thing to performance and efficencey.just wondering has anybody figured out what stocking rate they going to run and how are they going to maximise their available assets be it land ,cows,buildings,labour or money.

just do it

At the end of the day Teagasc is a research organisation and I've grown to appreciate them for their honesty. Their greenfield diary farm has informed them that going from zero to large overnight is a bad idea and their Derrypatrick beef herd has thought them AI in beef (amongst other things) isn't that easy. But the point is they've been open and transparent about the poor results rather than trying to put a positive spin on them.

Their research is market driven and given the nature of farming it can't be done 5 years in advance of where the market is going.

As with any advice, it's only one element in the decision making process. New is good but equally listening to auld lads is also not to be sneezed at

bob charles

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's a big difference to the last time I there 5 years ago. Back then they were promoting getting enough land to milk 500 cows when quotas go. Build a low cost milking parlour and have a stand off pad Spend two years working at a loss before making profit in the third year. If you lost the lease of the land you could dismantle the milking parlour and move to another location. You would have some fun trying to get 500 acres in one block in Ireland.

so they will go whatever way the wind blows.

just do it wrote: »

But the point is they've been open and transparent about the poor results rather than trying to put a positive spin on them.

Things must have changed majorly so in the last few years.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

so they will go whatever way the wind blows.



Things must have changed majorly so in the last few years.

As with all agri research with the exception of chem/drugs/seed they are a good 5-10 years behind the best farmers.


But things have changed in terms of honesty/obfuscation with the exception of labour costs, always a big fudge on labour cost. I'd love to see a farm management plan with labour costs where the terms of employment were in line with a standard Teagasc employment contract. They had a figure where they were targeting one man per 150 cows, no matter how labour extensive that system was he's a fair man, the one in question who can run 150 cows on his own.

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

Things must have changed majorly so in the last few years.

Everyone's thinking on winter forage reserves has changed dramatically in just one year

just do it

freedominacup wrote: »

They had a figure where they were targeting one man per 150 cows, no matter how labour extensive that system was he's a fair man, the one in question who can run 150 cows on his own.

One man and his dog, .... And his robot

darragh_haven

freedominacup wrote: »

As with all agri research with the exception of chem/drugs/seed they are a good 5-10 years behind the best farmers.


But things have changed in terms of honesty/obfuscation with the exception of labour costs, always a big fudge on labour cost. I'd love to see a farm management plan with labour costs where the terms of employment were in line with a standard Teagasc employment contract. They had a figure where they were targeting one man per 150 cows, no matter how labour extensive that system was he's a fair man, the one in question who can run 150 cows on his own.

There are 2 local lads that I've been talking to recently and both are operating herds of 123 and 129. Both have said they are at their limits as a one man operation. Both said the competition for land in the local area and the 50 or so cows extra they would need to justify an extra labour unit are their limiting factors. They said concentrating on efficiency for the foreseeable future is the priority.

kowtow

just do it wrote: »

One man and his dog, ....

Dog = Ration.

That's a big no-no. Unless he's a winter milk dog.

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

As with all agri research with the exception of chem/drugs/seed they are a good 5-10 years behind the best farmers.


But things have changed in terms of honesty/obfuscation with the exception of labour costs, always a big fudge on labour cost. I'd love to see a farm management plan with labour costs where the terms of employment were in line with a standard Teagasc employment contract. They had a figure where they were targeting one man per 150 cows, no matter how labour extensive that system was he's a fair man, the one in question who can run 150 cows on his own.

Its pretty simple just get in well with your local teagasc man, and hey presto you'll get a really cheap labour unit for what are your 3 busiest months of the year.
Its pretty funny reading the journal In the spring and all the poster boy farmers almost without fail have a student on placement for the spring, know of farms locally that without fail have got a student every spring for the last 10 years and two of the farms in particular if I was given 1,000 euro a week I wouldn't work there really nasty people to deal with and work for.

delaval

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its pretty simple just get in well with your local teagasc man, and hey presto you'll get a really cheap labour unit for what are your 3 busiest months of the year.
Its pretty funny reading the journal In the spring and all the poster boy farmers almost without fail have a student on placement for the spring, know of farms locally that without fail have got a student every spring for the last 10 years and two of the farms in particular if I was given 1,000 euro a week I wouldn't work there really nasty people to deal with and work for.

Would love you to define 'poster boy farmers'

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Would love you to define 'poster boy farmers'

You'll probably find it just under the definition of "big farmer" and just before the definition for "small farmer" in websters pocket dictionary of agri words and phrases:D

Tipp Man

There is no doubt about it but 150 is the max that 1 man can manage on his own

Even then he is probably not getting 100% out of what he has

120 is enough cows per man

mf240

Tipp Man wrote: »

There is no doubt about it but 150 is the max that 1 man can manage on his own

Even then he is probably not getting 100% out of what he has

120 is enough cows per man

Jays us I don't know tipp man.

That's a lot of work for one man.
But then is there a father tipping around a son a wife or are you talking one man band.
If it was 120 cows with 200 acres dry land and contractors doing everything I suppose you'd work away grand.
Nothing about this country makes employing someone attractive.

kowtow

Tipp Man wrote: »

There is no doubt about it but 150 is the max that 1 man can manage on his own

Even then he is probably not getting 100% out of what he has

120 is enough cows per man

In fairness, they were putting a big emphasis on contracting out everything that could be contracted out, ditching all other enterprises (loss making sucklers, etc. etc.) from the dairy unit, and on calving 90% within 6 weeks.

Tipp Man

mf240 wrote: »

Jays us I don't know tipp man.

That's a lot of work for one man.
But then is there a father tipping around a son a wife or are you talking one man band.
If it was 120 cows with 200 acres dry land and contractors doing everything I suppose you'd work away grand.
Nothing about this country makes employing someone attractive.

I suppose your right actually

The few lads i know milking at that level has the FRS in a fair bit

The FRS is probably the best bet for a lad by himself - no need to worry about tax, PRSI or any other messing around that comes about with hiring someone

Am involved in another business which hires 5 or 6 staff (silent partner) and you wouldn't believe the hastle that my partner has dealing with them - its unbelievable. My partner is running around like a blue arse fly trying to cover them and keep them happy.

Tipp Man

kowtow wrote: »

In fairness, they were putting a big emphasis on contracting out everything that could be contracted out, ditching all other enterprises (loss making sucklers, etc. etc.) from the dairy unit, and on calving 90% within 6 weeks.

All well and good contracting everything out but that costs money too and you are then dependant on other people doing things on time and correctly - inevitably the more you rely on others the more often you will be let down

I'd rather so 110 myself than 150 and be depending on people

bob charles

did anyone ask what is this average wage that is quoted, and figure? average industrial wage which is 41k or what? I wouldnt like to have the hassle that goes with milking 100cows just for 41k. even the most profitable needed 50cows to get this average wage however much it is.

Timmaay

Contracting out jobs like slurry etc can work out well once you have enough reliable contractors in your area, I'm lucky enough to have one chap who is very good, not the cheapest but very dependable, alongside him there are 3 or 4 other contractors who I can have down in a day or so if needs be. Most certainly moving forward I've zero plans on buying any unnecessary machinery, and will just contract out as much as I can. I'm not using the frs, there are one or 2 local milkers who are fairly dependable, and charge less than the frs, I pay them with a cheque and its put in the books as casual labour. Much better having someone who knows your parlour/cows also, we have had too many problems with the frs.

kowtow

Tipp Man wrote: »

All well and good contracting everything out but that costs money too and you are then dependant on other people doing things on time and correctly - inevitably the more you rely on others the more often you will be let down

Couldn't agree more.

Also, as I understand it, given the sensible emphasis on achieving a drastic increase in grass yield and quality contractor timing becomes even more of an issue than perhaps it has been in the past.

So you'd have to identify contractor availability / quality alongside weather as one of the major risk factors in this model.