Prolife Campaign on Protection of Life in Pregnancy Bill Superthread

krudler

hotmail.com wrote: »

They should spend their campaign money on sick children.

No no no, ya see, babies inside the womb are everyone's business, including the celibate priests, the oap rosary rattlers who are beyond their child bearing years and those not even in puberty yet. babies outside the womb? Well they're the states and their parents problem.

that's Iona logic.

endacl

A demoncery? Ruled by demons?!?

wretcheddomain

As I like to argue - how would they feel if there was a law which made it compulsory to provide an organ or some other bodily part for the need to save an existing child's life? They recoil horribly and say they would be against such a proposition, to which I reply that they're not willing to use their own bodies to save existing children, but expect a woman to use her body for an entity which cannot possibly be considered alive in the same way. Both cases require the use of the body to save a 'child' (pending definitions), but when the child is alive they simply do not care but when the entity is not even born, they want to force women to use their own bodies. And while the use of a bodily organ/part is not a child per se, it would be used to save an existing child. The point of the analogy is that they wouldn't use their own bodies to save an existing child via some legal statute, but expect others to use their bodies for an entity not existent in the same meaningful way.

Pegmatite

**Vai** wrote: »

I Those ridiculous posters for a start.

I've been taking them down where ever I see them. Are the posters actually legal, I thought only posters like that could only go up for elections and referendums and had to be taken down once it was over.

**Vai**

Jester252 wrote: »

Ireland is a demoncery.

Someone needs to alert the archbishop immediately!

Laneyh

I really resent this notion that if abortion is permissable in certain sets of circumstances there will suddenly be bands of feral women lining up to become impregnated just so they can have an abortion.

If there are women who opt for abortion as retrospective contraception I would say they are in an extreme minority.

I highly doubt that any woman or couple makes this decision lightly

Jester252

endacl wrote: »

A demoncery? Ruled by demons?!?

Do you have anything to add because nobody like a grammer nazi.

krudler

Jester252 wrote: »

Do you have anything to add because nobody like a grammer nazi.

Not sure if serious...

Reekwind

Jester252 wrote: »

Ireland is a democracy. People can campaign the goverment for what they think is right. While I don't agree with what they stand for I have no isdues with them campaign to the general public

And who here is suggesting that the campaigners in question don't have the right to campaign or produce a petition? That's a strawman. All the OP is doing is expressing unease at the low tactics being used by the anti-abortion campaigners

Eramen

shruikan2553 wrote: »

China does it to itself with their one child policy. Was contraception available in Russia?
Abortion isnt meant to replace contraception, it is to protect the health or when the contraception fails.
If someone is using it as contraception they probably shouldnt be having children anyway.

The situation is more serious than you may think, even in the West.

The abortion rate per 1,000 women in Russia is 53. This equates to 13 abortions for every 10 live births.

In the USA it's 20, UK 18, Australia 19.. Do the math! In fact the math is already done for you elsewhere, it's a simple internet search..

We are presently suffering a population hemorrhage by killing off our potential youth off en masse. There's no argument about it. It's leading us to a demographic catastrophe which is already very well recognised in the West. There is absolutely no basis for saying that abortion on demand does not significantly harm the population when in fact it does - to a very large degree.

This comes at a time when we won't even be able to afford our own healthcare, infrastructure, retirements, and to keep to wheels turning in the economy. We will become stagnant culturally and as a economic entity.

I'm not hear to listen to excuse after excuse when the information is in plain sight. The pro-choice mentality is disastrous for the continuance of progress and is an obstacle to the advancement of the state and people as a whole, especially in Europe. It's inevitable that abortion as we know it, freely available and commoditised in many parts of the world, will slowly evaporate as an option out of the need to secure our state's well-being and the national interest.

endacl

Jester252 wrote: »

Do you have anything to add because nobody like a grammer nazi.

There was no grammAr comment implied.

There was humorous opportunity in the typo though!

B0jangles

So women should literally just have unwanted child after unwanted child to prevent the imminent collapse of Western Civilization?

lazygal

Eramen wrote: »

The situation is more serious than you may think, even in the West.

The abortion rate per 1,000 women in Russia is 53. This equates to 13 abortions for every 10 live births.

In the USA it's 20, UK 18, Australia 19.. Do the math! In fact the math is already done for you elsewhere, it's a simple internet search..

We are presently suffering a population hemorrhage by killing off our potential youth off en masse. There's no argument about it. It's leading us to a demographic catastrophe which is already very well recognised in the West.

There is absolutely no basis for saying that abortion on demand does not significantly harm the population when in fact it does - to a very large degree.

This comes at a time when we won't even be able to afford our own healthcare, infrastructure, retirements, and to keep to wheels turning in the economy. We will become stagnant culturally and as a economic entity.

I'm not hear to listen to excuse after excuse when the information is in plain sight. The pro-choice mentality is disastrous for the continuance of progress and is an obstacle to the advancement of the state and people as a whole, especially in Europe.

How many children have you had to help avoid population decline?

Jester252

Reekwind wrote: »

And who here is suggesting that the campaigners in question don't have the right to campaign or produce a petition? That's a strawman. All the OP is doing is expressing unease at the low tactics being used by the anti-abortion campaigners

How is it low? Are teenagers not allowed a voice?

Laneyh

Lola18 wrote: »

"I don't understand how you think anyone can unsee an enormous billboard ad though - that's a bit daft."

Would love to know when I said this? I said they can choose to ignore what it says

Indeed, I apologise for misinterpreting your words.

Unfortunately, saying that people should read it and choose to think about it or ignore it is equally daft.

bnt

Jester252 wrote: »

Do you have anything to add because nobody like a grammer nazi.

Why are you complaining? You may have just invented a new word. Register the domain name before the cybersquatters jump on it. :cool:

I saw one of those posters today that said something like "the law will allow abortion until birth". Which is, as far as I know, a blatant lie. So it appears that the target audience for the ads is the Ignorant, and it's only a matter of time before Godwin's Law comes up.

Amirani

Jester252 wrote: »

How is it low? Are teenagers not allowed a voice?

They don't have a vote for exactly this reason. They're in general more easily influenced by various interest groups. In terms of a prospective referendum, they don't have a voice.

Bannasidhe

lazygal wrote: »

How many children have you had to help avoid population decline?

and why is the global population increasing?

In England and Wales now has a population of 56.1 million people, an increase of 3.7 million since 2001.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18854073

England and Wales have abortion - yet their population is increasing.... hmmmmm....

Laneyh

What is amazing to me is that these posters etc. go completely unchallenged - apart from the disgust expressed by people online or in letters to newspapers etc.

This exhibition http://www.worldirish.com/story/505-murder-of-our-souls-street-art-extallation-temple-bar- in Temple Bar has been removed a number of times.

Last year all of it was removed and painted over just before the Notre Dame vs Navy game so it looked to me like someone official removed it as opposed to an individual who objected to the content.

This ad is mobile so not on Govt property but what about all of the posters on lamp posts in town. Do the council own those lamp posts ? Is it legal for YD to have their posters on there when it is not linked to a referendum or election ?

Eramen

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and why is the global population increasing?

In England and Wales now has a population of 56.1 million people, an increase of 3.7 million since 2001.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18854073

England and Wales have abortion - yet their population is increasing.... hmmmmm....

Nice decoy. Yet it's only in Britain, Ireland and France I believe. The rest of Europe is in terminal decline.

Muslim people and Asian immigrants are quite content to have large families. Nearly half of all births in France are to people of North African or Mid-Eastern origin.

Europeans seem to have no hope for the future and just make pathetic excuses for why their civilisation is dysfunctional.

Reekwind

Jester252 wrote: »

How is it low? Are teenagers not allowed a voice?

In terms of a referendum, no. They are not allowed voice at the ballot box. And padding out a petition with the names of those who cannot vote and who are not expected to vote is poor form

Unless of course you'd expect a twelve year old to have independently formulated a coherent and reasoned opinion on abortion?

Andy-Pandy

If they think this is ok, i wouldnt put anything else past them.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/06/27/opposite-the-dublin-rape-crisis-centre/?fb_source=pubv1

endacl

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If they think this is ok, i wouldnt put anything else past them.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/06/27/opposite-the-dublin-rape-crisis-centre/?fb_source=pubv1

It demonstrates a shocking lack of actual argument....

jimmy5694

Jester252 wrote: »

How is it low? Are teenagers not allowed a voice?

of course there allowed to voice, but its being abused from the point of view that there being talked to sign something that they dont know the whole truth

December2012

I wish the title if this thread, and their movement, be changed to what it is.

It's not pro-life or anti-life.
It's pro choice or anti choice.

jimmy5694

NiallSparky wrote: »

They don't have a vote for exactly this reason. They're in general more easily influenced by various interest groups. In terms of a prospective referendum, they don't have a voice.

agreed

K-9

Mod:

Threads about the Abortion Bill merged.

lazygal

Eramen wrote: »

Nice decoy. Yet it's only in Britain, Ireland and France I believe. The rest of Europe is in terminal decline.

Muslim people and Asian immigrants are quite content to have large families. Nearly half of all births in France are to people of North African or Mid-Eastern origin.

Europeans seem to have no hope for the future and just make pathetic excuses for why their civilisation is dysfunctional.

You're very concerned about population decline and demographic changes. Maybe you might be able to tell us how many children you've had to play your part in making sure its effects are offset?

LizT

After reading through this page, nothing the youth defence does shocks me now.

Absolutely disgusting organisation. I have no problem with people being pro life, they're entitled to their opinion but the amount of sheer vitriol their supporters spout is disgusting.

Lola18

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well I don't think you believe that to be honest. If you had any respect for human life you would have a major problem with a sign like this being placed outside a centre for victims of rape.

Oh I fully believe it and I have a lot of respect for human life which is why I don't have a problem. People are making a mountain out of a molehill here!

bodice ripper

Eramen wrote: »

At the time of the fall of the Soviet Union 86% of women over the age of fifteen had had at least one abortion.

The average 25-year-old woman had had three abortions and some women had had more than twenty.


China has more than 13 million abortions per year.



Quite substantial. This is having profound effects on the population demographics of our countries, and certainly on-demand abortion conflicts with the state interests considering where we are at demographically today in the West. We are aged and childless, or worse, killing off our future.

It's only a matter of time before people and governments stem the flow of this type of abortion - out of pure necessity for societies common interest & progress.

"'They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women.They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state."

-George Carlin

Jester252

NiallSparky wrote: »

They don't have a vote for exactly this reason. They're in general more easily influenced by various interest groups. In terms of a prospective referendum, they don't have a voice.

So they should not be involved in a ruling that will effect them? Is there any pro life groups that are campaign?

jimmy5694

Eramen wrote: »

The situation is more serious than you may think, even in the West.

The abortion rate per 1,000 women in Russia is 53. This equates to 13 abortions for every 10 live births.

In the USA it's 20, UK 18, Australia 19.. Do the math! In fact the math is already done for you elsewhere, it's a simple internet search..

We are presently suffering a population hemorrhage by killing off our potential youth off en masse. There's no argument about it. It's leading us to a demographic catastrophe which is already very well recognised in the West. There is absolutely no basis for saying that abortion on demand does not significantly harm the population when in fact it does - to a very large degree.

This comes at a time when we won't even be able to afford our own healthcare, infrastructure, retirements, and to keep to wheels turning in the economy. We will become stagnant culturally and as a economic entity.

I'm not hear to listen to excuse after excuse when the information is in plain sight. The pro-choice mentality is disastrous for the continuance of progress and is an obstacle to the advancement of the state and people as a whole, especially in Europe. It's inevitable that abortion as we know it, freely available and commoditised in many parts of the world, will slowly evaporate as an option out of the need to secure our state's well-being and the national interest.

i only agree to abortion on the terms that it is there and used when neccessary and not to be abused eg freely available.

Eramen

bodice ripper wrote: »

"'They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women.They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state."

-George Carlin

Quotes from other famous feminists:



“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.”

— Catherine MacKinnon


“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” – Valerie Solanas


“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart


"I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor


“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone


“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French


Comedy Gold.

Amirani

Jester252 wrote: »

So they should not be involved in a ruling that will effect them? Is there any pro life groups that are campaign?

Are you arguing that 12 year olds should be allowed vote? If they're not allowed vote, their signature on a "Don't Kill Babies" list shouldn't be held in any standing.

If teenagers want to actively play a role in the discussion (and I'm sure many do), I'd be completely in support of it. That's not what this is though.

Reekwind

Eramen wrote: »

Nice decoy. Yet it's only in Britain, Ireland and France I believe. The rest of Europe is in terminal decline

Um, no it's not. There are a dozen European countries (out of 50) with decreasing populations. Most of which are Eastern European nations haemorrhaging people due to mass emigration, not declining fertility. Everyone else is stable or growing

The idea that abortion (which has been legal in most of these countries for decades now) has led to us "suffering a population hemorrhage by killing off our potential youth off en masse" is hysterical nonsense

Muslim people and Asian immigrants are quite content to have large families. Nearly half of all births in France are to people of North African or Mid-Eastern origin

What's the problem with that? Don't those babies count towards easing the demographic burden? Or is your problem less the number of babies being born than the colour of said babies?

endacl

Jester252 wrote: »

So they should not be involved in a ruling that will effect them? Is there any pro life groups that are campaign?

Why should a change to law affect them in this regard? There's a simple solution already available for those who strongly disagree with abortion. And that's to not have one. An available procedure is not a compulsory one.

Why not allow 5 year olds to sign? 2 year olds? Same reason we don't let kids vote in local elections. Because to do so would be silly. Even if local issues effect them. Grown up decisions are for grown ups.

Lola18

Laneyh wrote: »

Indeed, I apologise for misinterpreting your words.

Unfortunately, saying that people should read it and choose to think about it or ignore it is equally daft.

How exactly is it daft?

bodice ripper

Eramen wrote: »

Quotes from other famous feminists:



“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.”

— Catherine MacKinnon


“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” – Valerie Solanas


“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart


"I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor


“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone


“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French


Comedy Gold.

Care to address the point and tell me why its ok to hold women to being broodmares for the state?

Obliq

Eramen wrote: »

We are presently suffering a population hemorrhage by killing off our potential youth off en masse. There's no argument about it. It's leading us to a demographic catastrophe which is already very well recognised in the West. There is absolutely no basis for saying that abortion on demand does not significantly harm the population when in fact it does - to a very large degree.

Who says? Show me the research and if it's not bollix, I'll take it seriously.

I'm not hear to listen to excuse after excuse when the information is in plain sight. The pro-choice mentality is disastrous for the continuance of progress and is an obstacle to the advancement of the state and people as a whole, especially in Europe. It's inevitable that abortion as we know it, freely available and commoditised in many parts of the world, will slowly evaporate as an option out of the need to secure our state's well-being and the national interest.

What sort of sh*te is that? I remember you. You showed your hand on a different thread about your distaste for Muslims and their progeny.

Eramen wrote: »

Quotes from other famous feminists:

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.”

— Catherine MacKinnon


“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” – Valerie Solanas


“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart


"I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor


“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone


“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French


Comedy Gold.

You do listen to some rubbish, don't you? I'm an out and out feminist, and I love and respect men. There is not one word of those quotes that I can agree with. Get with the times bro.

B0jangles

Obliq wrote: »

Who says? Show me the research and if it's not bollix, I'll take it seriously.



What sort of sh*te is that? I remember you. You showed your hand on a different thread about your distaste for Muslims and their progeny.



You do listen to some rubbish, don't you? I'm an out and out feminist, and I love and respect men. There is not one word of those quotes that I can agree with. Get with the times bro.

Yeah and at least one of them is flat-out made-up:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/mackinnon.asp

Eramen

bodice ripper wrote: »

Care to address the point and tell me why its ok to hold women to being broodmares for the state?

And why are men bled dry in war, and are forced to finance the state? Why should we do it? I'd prefer to pay less taxes yet men pay over 85% the tax bill..

You're argument is obviously with nature/God/some life-force that made the sexes as they are. Deal with it.

lazygal

Eramen wrote: »

And why are men bled dry in war, and are forced finance the state? Why should we do it? I'd prefer to pay less taxes yet men pay over 85% the tax bill..

You're argument is obviously with nature/God/some life-force that made the sexes as they are. Deal with it.

Ah sure we're all going to die anyway. How many children will you leave behind? For someone concerned about population decline, you seem reticent about the part you're playing in it.

Obliq

Eramen wrote: »

And why are men bled dry in war, and are forced to finance the state? Why should we do it? I'd prefer to pay less taxes yet men pay over 85% the tax bill..

You're argument is obviously with nature/God/some life-force that made the sexes as they are. Deal with it.

You're a strange little person, aren't you? I think you'll find we're not fighting some battle of the sexes here. There isn't one as far as I'm concerned, as I've yet to meet the man who doesn't take me seriously. Get back to the topic will ya, and talk about abortion.

bodice ripper

Eramen wrote: »

And why are men are bled dry in war, and are forced finance the state? Why should we do it? I'd prefer to pay less taxes yet men pay over 85% the tax bill..

You're argument is obviously with nature/God/some life-force that made the sexes as they are. Deal with it.

Did you actually just tell me it is my lot in life because god ordained it so?


I am of a good mind to go get a recreational abortion now, out of spite.

Amirani

Eramen wrote: »

And why are men bled dry in war, and are forced to finance the state? Why should we do it? I'd prefer to pay less taxes yet men pay over 85% the tax bill..

You're argument is obviously with nature/God/some life-force that made the sexes as they are. Deal with it.

Oh dear.

B0jangles

Eramen wrote: »

And why are men bled dry in war, and are forced to finance the state? Why should we do it? I'd prefer to pay less taxes yet men pay over 85% the tax bill..

You're argument is obviously with nature/God/some life-force that made the sexes as they are. Deal with it.

99% of men will never experience war first-hand. (BTW I believe this to be a good thing - no-one should have to experience war). Hardly comparable to the chances of of woman becoming unintentionally pregnant.

As to the tax bill, if your number is true, (which I doubt) does that not suggest that men are likely to have significantly higher incomes, or is the Department of Finance staffed entirely by radical man-hating 1960's feminists?

Eramen

Obliq wrote: »

Who says? Show me the research and if it's not bollix, I'll take it seriously.

I did, yet you selectively read through it all it seems.

Obliq wrote: »

What sort of sh*te is that? I remember you. You showed your hand on a different thread about your distaste for Muslims and their progeny.

I'm unsure about that. Most Muslims are healthy, vigorous and have a lust for life, yet they don't refrain from holding onto their time-honored values and the metaphysical dimension of life. The same can't be said of the inane trends we see taking place in Europe.

Obliq wrote: »

You do listen to some rubbish, don't you? I'm an out and out feminist, and I love and respect men. There is not one word of those quotes that I can agree with. Get with the times bro.

DUUURR, it's the year 2013? etc

lazygal

Eramen wrote: »

I did, yet you selectively read through it all it seems.




I'm unsure about that. Most Muslims are healthy, vigorous and have a lust for life, yet they don't refrain from holding onto their time-honored values and the metaphysical dimension of life. The same can't be said of the inane trends we see taking place in Europe.





DUUURR, it's the year 2013? etc

Your posts are getting funnier and funnier. Also, I now have Iggy Pop's Lust for Life in my head.
Also this: metaphysical dimension of life - Is that you, John Waters?

endacl

Eramen wrote: »

I will tell you how many kids I have if you tell me your IQ?

Nice one! That made tea squirt out my nose!

You should be on stage.