peregrine falcon

earache

got this shot on my walk

OpenYourEyes

Gorgeous bird, very lucky to get that good a view of it - probably only fledged in the last week!


For the love of god, please don't tell people where you saw it though! They're persecuted a lot in Ireland, and I saw an example today of someone giving away a very specific location where one of these guys was that made my blood boil!

Kersh

Wow, thats a super pic.

earache

Thanks, don't worry the location is not known by many.

Birdnuts

Ironically I was in Dublin City centre today and on the way out saw a big female flying over the Liffey right next to Heuston station.

Tiercel Dave

Hi, nice photo. I'd say a female with a touch of down still on her head! Dave

cuddlycavies

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ironically I was in Dublin City centre today and on the way out saw a big female flying over the Liffey right next to Heuston station.

yes, There are a good few pairs in city and suburbs.

dodderangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ironically I was in Dublin City centre today and on the way out saw a big female flying over the Liffey right next to Heuston station.

I always see herself out in town. She's been there a while and what better place to be than around all them pigeons
She also has the ducks in Stephens green if she wanted. I know ..well I've a rough idea of where she nests. Of course I won't tell but she is a fantastic bird and she also has a male that does hang around her aswell.

Vizzy

Some of you will/might remember that I put up pics here about 2 weeks ago of two different pairs of peregrines I had been watching.
Unfortunately one bird from each pair has been shot dead.Gardai and Wildlife warden are "following a definite line of enquiry" and from what I can gather it was just pure vandalism and nothing else(i.e. not pigeon fanciers etc).
I know that in one nest that there were no eggs but I'm not sure about the other.It is highly unlikely that chicks would have survived anyway.
To say that I'm gutted doesn't even start to come close.:eek:

Birdnuts

Vizzy wrote: »

Some of you will/might remember that I put up pics here about 2 weeks ago of two different pairs of peregrines I had been watching.
Unfortunately one bird from each pair has been shot dead.Gardai and Wildlife warden are "following a definite line of enquiry" and from what I can gather it was just pure vandalism and nothing else(i.e. not pigeon fanciers etc).
I know that in one nest that there were no eggs but I'm not sure about the other.It is highly unlikely that chicks would have survived anyway.
To say that I'm gutted doesn't even start to come close.:eek:

I really hope the scumbag responsible for that crime is dealt with and is banned from owning a firearm for life. I monitor a pair of Peregrines myself that are currently raising 3 chicks and the thought of something like that happening fills me with horror. Things like this are always more painfull when the birds in question are part of ones own wildlife experience:(.

Vizzy

Unfortunately Birdnuts it is two crimes as the nests were 10 miles apart.

cuddlycavies

Vizzy wrote: »

Some of you will/might remember that I put up pics here about 2 weeks ago of two different pairs of peregrines I had been watching.
Unfortunately one bird from each pair has been shot dead.Gardai and Wildlife warden are "following a definite line of enquiry" and from what I can gather it was just pure vandalism and nothing else(i.e. not pigeon fanciers etc).
I know that in one nest that there were no eggs but I'm not sure about the other.It is highly unlikely that chicks would have survived anyway.
To say that I'm gutted doesn't even start to come close.:eek:

Unbelievable

OpenYourEyes

From the Animal Magic Wildlife Rescue facebook page

We were recently called out to rescue a Bird who couldn't fly, sitting in someone's back garden near Cashel. When we arrived it was a mature male Peregrine Falcon, his wing had dropped.
Denis caught him up and on closer inspection it appeared that he had been shot.
He was in breeding condition and we were worried he may have young to feed and contacted the local Wildlife Ranger who told us that a female had been shot dead a few miles from where we were.
We were obviously worried about the possibility of youngsters out there, waiting to be fed, but were delighted, once the nest site was pinpointed, that this female was still alive and was hunting and feeding the young.
Both of these incidents are being investigated, but what a disgrace that a protected species like this is still being targeted! Who ever you are you ought to be ashamed, birds and animals out there in the wild have enough to cope with, without being persecuted

Capercaille

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

From the Animal Magic Wildlife Rescue facebook page

Tip of the iceberg. How many are shot and not recovered:(

machiavellianme

Whats the point in shooting these?
From a farming background, I've no problem with shooting crows (and wouldn't care if someone were to take a few magpies) as these birds are pests, destroy crops, cackling etc.
But falcons are beautiful animals that actually prey on most of the things farmers dislike.
Is it a trophy to someone to shoot them or something?
I just don't get it.
Very sad to see something hunted to near extinction.

trebor28

Vizzy wrote: »

Unfortunately Birdnuts it is two crimes as the nests were 10 miles apart.

Vizzy, may i ask what part of the country this has happened?

just wondering is it close to me?

Vizzy

trebor28,these were in South Tipp as outlined in OpenYourEyes post.
I actually thought that the male which was rescued was dead (so at least there is some bit of good news there) but the female at the other nest is definitely dead.

dodderangler

machiavellianme wrote: »

Whats the point in shooting these?
From a farming background, I've no problem with shooting crows (and wouldn't care if someone were to take a few magpies) as these birds are pests, destroy crops, cackling etc.
But falcons are beautiful animals that actually prey on most of the things farmers dislike.
Is it a trophy to someone to shoot them or something?
I just don't get it.
Very sad to see something hunted to near extinction.

It's not a trophy at all. Coming from a hunting background myself and being a falconer also I cannot understand why anyone would even raise a gun at a peregrine or any bird of prey for that matter. They are among the most beautiful of all bird species not to mention being the fastest animal in the world. So I'd assume the scum who done it shot it whilst it was sitting perched somewhere as it would be very hard to hit while flying.
The only reason I could think of someone shooting one is to protect game birds like pheasants, grouse etc. almost same reason why the buzzards were targeted.
scum. I really hope they are caught and not just a slap on the wrist and a fine. Lock them up.
Really gets to me when this happens and is also making some of us decent genuine hunters look like scum aswell.

cuddlycavies

Revoke license and take guns. Only way. They're never gonna jail folks like this so that would really be a suitable penalty.

OpenYourEyes

Could be people thinking they're protecting gamebirds - could also just be complete mindless idiots doing it for the laugh and showing off! Either way they are scum, should be penalised in every way possible and should never be allowed own a firearm again! Its unfortunate that it only takes a few of these lunatics scattered around the country to cause significant damage to raptor populations, and to give the hunting/farming communities a bad name.

dodderangler

Who's to say the scum who done this even has a firearm licence. Could be illegally owned. Wouldn't suprise me considering they're out shooting peregrines

trebor28

Vizzy wrote: »

trebor28,these were in South Tipp as outlined in OpenYourEyes post.
I actually thought that the male which was rescued was dead (so at least there is some bit of good news there) but the female at the other nest is definitely dead.

I am not that far away, in north tipp.

have been watching a pair here for most of the year.
would hate for anything to happen to them

cd07

These stories make my blood boil. Only yesterday a family member was telling me he was doing a job for a guy who breeds hens and a few rabbits, and this complete tool was telling him that a Red Kite has "got into" his pens and killed a few hens and all his rabbits! He swears now the next Kite or Buzzard he sees he is going to shoot. I mean jesus what kind of clowns are out there? It was quite obvious to me that it was a fox or feral cat that killed his animals. Just because these beautiful birds are in the area these narrow-minded hicks blame them for the death of every hen,duck,pheasent and lamb its just so ridiculous. There doesnt seem to be any educating people like this, I mean they`re always right and Im the dope when I try to explain that theres no way a Kite would actively hunt full grown hens or Pheasents!!

OpenYourEyes

Thats depressing to hear cd07!


Only today I heard of another attack on a Peregrine nest, seperate to the ones above too! Really enfuriating!

cd07

Extremely depressing. I wonder do the Gardai really take cases like this very seriously? I can`t see it myself.

OpenYourEyes

cd07 wrote: »

Extremely depressing. I wonder do the Gardai really take cases like this very seriously? I can`t see it myself.

Tbh I'm sure its a mix of what evidence is available and how much the Ranger in the area pushes it. Some areas are lucky enough to have Gardai with an interest in nature too, which certainly helps.

Unfortunately evidence can be hard to come by, but NPWS and Birdwatch etc. have tightened their protocol in recent years regarding what they do when a raptor is found that died of suspicious circumstances - so hopefully that will reap rewards in terms of increased prosecutions in the future.

Capercaille

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Tbh I'm sure its a mix of what evidence is available and how much the Ranger in the area pushes it. Some areas are lucky enough to have Gardai with an interest in nature too, which certainly helps.

Unfortunately evidence can be hard to come by, but NPWS and Birdwatch etc. have tightened their protocol in recent years regarding what they do when a raptor is found that died of suspicious circumstances - so hopefully that will reap rewards in terms of increased prosecutions in the future.

A mate of mine found a buzzard that was unable to fly. I got the local vet to check it out. He took x-rays and the buzzard had severe damage to wings due to gunshot wounds. The bird had to be euthanised. The vet rang the NPWS to inform them where the bird was found and had DVD of X-ray and the body of the buzzard. They said they would collect the evidence. They never did, even after repeat phone calls from the vet.

OpenYourEyes

Capercaille wrote: »

A mate of mine found a buzzard that was unable to fly. I got the local vet to check it out. He took x-rays and the buzzard had severe damage to wings due to gunshot wounds. The bird had to be euthanised. The vet rang the NPWS to inform them where the bird was found and had DVD of X-ray and the body of the buzzard. They said they would collect the evidence. They never did, even after repeat phone calls from the vet.

Thats similarly depressing to hear, although I think its worth pointing out that not all Rangers are that bad - many of them would be delighted that the vet had done and kept the x-ray and body because they're both important parts of the chain of evidence outlined in the newly extablished protocol. Like in any job, some people are useless and others are really great. Any of the rangers I've met would have dropped whatever they're doing to go collect that.

For everyones information, your local wildlife ranger or otherwise maybe John Lusby from Birdwatch Ireland (Raptor conservation officer) are the people to contact if you find a raptor that died or is sick/injured under possibly suspicious circumstances. If it is dead, don't move the body unless you absolteuly have to - and if you do make sure you put it in a clean bag or box - nothing that would or could have had any kind of chemicals or that held anything that was very dirty.

Vizzy

Just got a bit of good news that it looks like the chicks on the nest where the adult was shot dead have fledged and are now flying.:D
Just on the Ranger issue,the guy in our area has been extremely proactive and has maintained pressure on the Gardai.
Birdwatch Ireland are also in the picture and have been on site also.
I would say that at least one of the culprits is known but proving that they were there and more importantly that they shot a peregrine is another matter.
Lets hope that when he is renewing his firearms licence the Super finds a reason to refuse it.

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Thats similarly depressing to hear, although I think its worth pointing out that not all Rangers are that bad - many of them would be delighted that the vet had done and kept the x-ray and body because they're both important parts of the chain of evidence outlined in the newly extablished protocol. Like in any job, some people are useless and others are really great. Any of the rangers I've met would have dropped whatever they're doing to go collect that.

.

That's very true - I know the female ranger in charge of North Mayo is very on the ball when it comes to investigating wildlife crimes like this.

dodderangler

Capercaille wrote: »

A mate of mine found a buzzard that was unable to fly. I got the local vet to check it out. He took x-rays and the buzzard had severe damage to wings due to gunshot wounds. The bird had to be euthanised. The vet rang the NPWS to inform them where the bird was found and had DVD of X-ray and the body of the buzzard. They said they would collect the evidence. They never did, even after repeat phone calls from the vet.

This it?
http://ien.ie/2012/buzzard-shot-in-county-meath/

Capercaille

dodderangler wrote: »

This it?
http://ien.ie/2012/buzzard-shot-in-county-meath/

It was shot in Kildare.

OpenYourEyes

The Animal Wildlife Magic Rescue facebook page (that I posted from on the last page of this thread) just posted that they were out flying a Saker Falcon that they had, they heard a gun go off, and the bird dropped from the air - shot dead. Some awful scumbags around Tipperary (I think it is)

Capercaille

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

The Animal Wildlife Magic Rescue facebook page (that I posted from on the last page of this thread) just posted that they were out flying a Saker Falcon that they had, they heard a gun go off, and the bird dropped from the air - shot dead. Some awful scumbags around Tipperary (I think it is)

Two things wrong there. That a hunter saw the bird and probably thought it was a peregrine and decided to kill it.
The second thing, I don't really like seeing an endangered bird like a Saker falcon being used in Falconry. Unless the bird is involved in some breeding programme to release birds back into the wild.

Tiercel Dave

Hi Capercaille,the Saker would be 'Captive Bred' from lines probably dating back to the 70's and would have no bearing whatsoever on the wild population. This in no way condones what may have taken place and as you say what bird did the shooter think he was firing at? Regards, Dave

OpenYourEyes

...and presumably the way a Rescue Centre in Ireland has one is that there was a falconer who didn't want it and it'd otherwise be destroyed

Tiercel Dave

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

...and presumably the way a Rescue Centre in Ireland has one is that there was a falconer who didn't want it and it'd otherwise be destroyed

No, I think Animal Magic run commercial 'Falconry' courses so I presume they would have to buy their birds just like anybody else! Dave

dodderangler

Was it a pure saker or a pere/saker?
Either way the person responsible should have their gun licence taken off them

OpenYourEyes

dodderangler wrote: »

Was it a pure saker or a pere/saker?
Either way the person responsible should have their gun licence taken off them

Just says Saker, so presumably its not a cross. They should definitely never have a gun license ever again, and should be hit hard in the pocket in every way possible too

Capercaille

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

Hi Capercaille,the Saker would be 'Captive Bred' from lines probably dating back to the 70's and would have no bearing whatsoever on the wild population. This in no way condones what may have taken place and as you say what bird did the shooter think he was firing at? Regards, Dave

It can be good to use the raptors as educational tools to teach people about raptors. I don't have a problem with falconry in general, if birds that have stable wild populations are used (peregrines, goshawks, broad winged hawks etc). So even if some birds are taken from the wild it would have a minimal effect on the wild population. Most of the birds are captive bred, but are supplemented by wild birds. I understand that wild peregrine chicks are removed from nests in Ireland to supply wild birds for Irish falconers.

However the situation with Saker falcons is different. Huge numbers are been taken from the wild and the wild population is endangered as a result across most of it's range. There is plenty of captive breeding of Sakers, but unfortunately this hasn't stopped the illegal trade of these birds.:(

OpenYourEyes

Capercaille wrote: »

It can be good to use the raptors as educational tools to teach people about raptors. I don't have a problem with falconry in general, if birds that have stable wild populations are used (peregrines, goshawks, broad winged hawks etc). So even if some birds are taken from the wild it would have a minimal effect on the wild population. Most of the birds are captive bred, but are supplemented by wild birds. I understand that wild peregrine chicks are removed from nests in Ireland to supply wild birds for Irish falconers.

However the situation with Saker falcons is different. Huge numbers are been taken from the wild and the wild population is endangered as a result across most of it's range. There is plenty of captive breeding of Sakers, but unfortunately this hasn't stopped the illegal trade of these birds.:(

Not a fan of the Peregrine 'lotto' in Ireland tbh - don't think its done elsewhere. It began to help the captive population in Ireland get started, but that was a good while ago now and theres definitely a big enough captive population to make harvesting wild birds unnecessary.

Not too many birds are taken every year, but it'd still be preferable to have those chicks in the wild and expanding the population in size and range. And disturbance at nests from falconers checking if sites are occupied and if they have eggs etc is another issue.

There is the question then though, if the Peregrine lotto was to stop, would we see an increase in illegal taking of chicks from the wild by the more unscrupulous falconers? Hard to know, but the counter argument would be that if they're going to do something illegal like that then you'll do it anyway, with or without the lotto.

I have no problem at all with falconry either btw, just don't particularly like birds being taken from the wild when its not necessary

Tiercel Dave

The distribution and population of Peregrines is directly related to the number of suitable nest sites available. Peregrines are now, I would think, at saturation point, every traditional and newer 'quarry site' is occupied. So the only way to increase the number of breeding pairs would to provide nest platforms/boxes on tall buildings and the like. This spread is slowly occurring naturally as pairs take up residence in cities substituting church architecture etc. for the normal inaccessible cliff face. But we're never going to have a pair at every crossroads in the country!
5 'Wild Take' licences are issued per year. If it's the number that concerns you let's crunch a few hypothetical figures. There must be at least 10 breeding pairs in each county so that would be 260 for the Republic. Throw in a few extra for the likes of Wicklow, Mayo/Sligo and bring it up to about 300. 3 eyasses is a good average so that gives a potential increase in population of 900 birds. 5 licences are issued, but usually about 4 are successful. That works out at less than half a per cent. So it's not an unsustainable 'harvest'. The natural mortality rate of Peregrines is almost unbelievable. 70% of fledged eyasses will be dead by the end of the following February. That is the price to pay for being a niche predator, it's a steep learning curve and very unforgiving.
A licence/permission, in addition to the 'Take' licence, has to be obtained from NPWS before searching for a nest. The local Ranger may be present on such visits so disturbance is kept to a minimum. There is really no reason to search for eggs as it's far quicker to find a nest with hatched birds.
Unscrupulous falconers. Unscrupulous drivers. It's against the law to drink drive, drive without tax, drive without insurance. Are all drivers shady characters, refueling wherever they can. Some of them even drive around under the cover of darkness. Falconers, if they break the law, are criminals and should be treated as such. It's not an easy task to train a Peregrine to hunt and keep it at it's peak of fitness, true Falconry, and will not be achieved by somebody 'finding' a hawk in a quarry. Advice of all sorts is needed and these unscrupulous people will be shunned by any legitimate falconer or club.
Regards, Dave

OpenYourEyes

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

The distribution and population of Peregrines is directly related to the number of suitable nest sites available. Peregrines are now, I would think, at saturation point, every traditional and newer 'quarry site' is occupied. So the only way to increase the number of breeding pairs would to provide nest platforms/boxes on tall buildings and the like. This spread is slowly occurring naturally as pairs take up residence in cities substituting church architecture etc. for the normal inaccessible cliff face. But we're never going to have a pair at every crossroads in the country!
5 'Wild Take' licences are issued per year. If it's the number that concerns you let's crunch a few hypothetical figures. There must be at least 10 breeding pairs in each county so that would be 260 for the Republic. Throw in a few extra for the likes of Wicklow, Mayo/Sligo and bring it up to about 300. 3 eyasses is a good average so that gives a potential increase in population of 900 birds. 5 licences are issued, but usually about 4 are successful. That works out at less than half a per cent. So it's not an unsustainable 'harvest'. The natural mortality rate of Peregrines is almost unbelievable. 70% of fledged eyasses will be dead by the end of the following February. That is the price to pay for being a niche predator, it's a steep learning curve and very unforgiving.
A licence/permission, in addition to the 'Take' licence, has to be obtained from NPWS before searching for a nest. The local Ranger may be present on such visits so disturbance is kept to a minimum. There is really no reason to search for eggs as it's far quicker to find a nest with hatched birds.
Unscrupulous falconers. Unscrupulous drivers. It's against the law to drink drive, drive without tax, drive without insurance. Are all drivers shady characters, refueling wherever they can. Some of them even drive around under the cover of darkness. Falconers, if they break the law, are criminals and should be treated as such. It's not an easy task to train a Peregrine to hunt and keep it at it's peak of fitness, true Falconry, and will not be achieved by somebody 'finding' a hawk in a quarry. Advice of all sorts is needed and these unscrupulous people will be shunned by any legitimate falconer or club.
Regards, Dave

Going by recent surveys the ROI peregrine population isn't at saturation point - it may be close to it at certain local areas, but there's variation between years there too. And similarly the NI population isn't at saturation either - largely because of persectuion. Persecution is also holding back the population on the south coast, and probably other places too. And given the amount of unoccupied quarries and sea cliffs, and as you said their ability to nest on buildings, there's still sufficient room for the population to keep expanding in the near future in Ireland. But obviously we're never going to have a pair at every crossroads in the country.

I don't think I said its unsustainable, just that I'm not a fan of it - its not the number that concerns me but that its completely unnecessary. It has the potential to influence local abundance and distribution, at least in the short term, and the problem of disturbance at nest sites is probably a bigger issue than that (though I don't necessarily blame the falconers there, its kinda the way the lotto is done). The local ranger should ideally be present, but often isn't , and plenty of people hire/get their own climbers to check the nest. Disturbance at a nest with hatched birds isn't good either!

I merely raised the point of unscrupulous falconers because its a question that needs to be considered. And I mean it that some falconers do it - while there might be people who want a 'hawk' who do it who aren't true falconers, some falconers do it too. I'll stress again that I have no problem with falconry and I have no intention of tarring all falconers with the same brush re: illegal activity. I can certainly see the attraction of it as a hobby, and its obvious that most falconers have a very high level of respective for both their raptors and those in the wild. Unfortunately just like any group or job there's always a few bad apples.

You never addressed the point that there's a sufficient captive population to make harvesting wild birds unnecessary?