Ryanair buys 175 jets in plan for €10 transatlantic flights

N64

Ryanair marked its first ever attendance at an airshow by signing a deal to buy 175 Boeing 737-800 jets and hinting it may buy another 200 Boeing planes by the end of the year.

Ryanair chief executive Micheal O’Leary said that if the airline wanted to offer transatlantic flights for €10 it would need a fleet of at least 30 planes.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/ryanair-buys-175-jets-in-plan-for-10-transatlantic-flights-234553.html

Wonder if we will indeed finally see transatlantic flights from Ryanair? It would be a welcomed surprise

DOCARCH

Very misleading article...or at least headline!

FWVT

It's the usual bullcrap from O'Leary. Say anything to get free publicity. €10 to the States? Maybe 1seat per flight. They will never have a transatlantic service, at any fare.

Tabnabs

Hopefully RA do a better job than the PR disaster Norwegian have found themselves in with their entry into longhaul.

http://www.enca.com/world/turbulent-start-norwegians-budget-long-haul-flights

Technoprisoner

i heard a rumor that he was looking at airbus too for his long haul plans

woops...just read the article and it mentions he is looking into airbus so there must be some credibility to it

rainbowdash

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i heard a rumor that he was looking at airbus too for his long haul plans

woops...just read the article and it mentions he is looking into airbus so there must be some credibility to it

You would imagine they would stick with Boeing, if they buy 200 smaller jets they would surely get some twin aisle planes at the right price, unless he goes for the airbus double decker planes and packs the punters in on the short routes like london and Dublin to new York and Boston.

zone 1

im sure whoever gives him the best deal will win the order, but from what he says this could be 10 years down the line and MOL might not be even there at that stage. i for one would love to fly to the states for 10, 20 even 50 euro..

Mikehaw

zone 1 wrote: »

im sure whoever gives him the best deal will win the order, but from what he says this could be 10 years down the line and MOL might not be even there at that stage. i for one would love to fly to the states for 10, 20 even 50 euro..

You can barely fly to London anymore for €50, do you really think it will be possible to fly to the states for €50 where costs will be multiples and multipes per passenger hour when you take in more fuel, more staff, more planes, higher landing fees etc

Grandpa Hassan

Whatever MoL says and does is fine by me. Not necessarily because I'd be rushing to use ryanair for anything with a flight time over a couple of hours, but because it shakes up the market. I dont see why anyone would not want MoL to disrupt the status quo as much as he can

kumate_champ07

it would be great if it brings down prices of other airlines ,but Ill never fly with Ryanair again anyway.

Tenger

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

it would be great if it brings down prices of other airlines ,but Ill never fly with Ryanair again anyway.

And even from this point of view an viable LCC longhaul operation is a good thing for the customer. However operating costs (ie fuel) are a lot more on longhaul than shorthaul. Any airline currently offering you 200 Euro 1 way across the Atlantic is doing it pretty much just above cost

IngazZagni

Tenger wrote: »

And even from this point of view an viable LCC longhaul operation is a good thing for the customer. However operating costs (ie fuel) are a lot more on longhaul than shorthaul. Any airline currently offering you 200 Euro 1 way across the Atlantic is doing it pretty much just above cost

Ryanair will be starting new routes this winter between Scandinavia and the Canaries. Some of those will be 6 hours one way. That's not much different than Dublin to New York I think. Now obviously transatlantic brings its own set of issues so its not that simple.

Ryanair buy in bulk so they will only do a deal if they can order 20 maybe 30 plus bigger planes for a delivery in a short time frame and that doesn't look likely at the moment. For now they will concentrate and what they do best. Shorthaul. Its looking more likely that they will order 200 plus 737 Max's this year on top of the recent NG deal.

zone 1

when does Ryanair new order of 737 8 starting coming online, i wonder would he look at the 787 for longhaul or 777 ??

Peregrine

zone 1 wrote: »

when does Ryanair new order of 737 8 starting coming online, i wonder would he look at the 787 for longhaul or 777 ??

They'll be in no rush to sell either of those to MOL at a cheap price.

Anyway, it's just O'Leary looking for publicity as usual, it won't happen in this decade and it will never happen with €10 per seat

ozzy jr

What obstacles stand in the way of an Airline should they decide they want to fly on a route?

Take Ryanair for example, if they wanted to fly DUB - JFK, what do they need to do before it can happen?

Obviously, slots at both airports, but is there anything else?

donvito99

So have they bought 175 additional a/c or what? Non-story if this is merely another tame expression of interest in operating transatlantic.

MidlandsM

FWVT wrote: »

It's the usual bullcrap from O'Leary. Say anything to get free publicity. €10 to the States? Maybe 1seat per flight. They will never have a transatlantic service, at any fare.

you may eat your words there yet FWVT. I for one, hope you do.

Peregrine

donvito99 wrote: »

So have they bought 175 additional a/c or what? Non-story if this is merely another tame expression of interest in operating transatlantic.

They just finalised the order we heard about on St. Patrick's Day. 175 Boeing 737-800s, delivery starting from 2014 to 2019. 75 older aircraft will be sold off.

They said again that they have plans for another major order before the end of this year.


The €10 transatlantic is just a load of crap, well you know don.

MidlandsM

ozzy jr wrote: »

What obstacles stand in the way of an Airline should they decide they want to fly on a route?

Take Ryanair for example, if they wanted to fly DUB - JFK, what do they need to do before it can happen?

Obviously, slots at both airports, but is there anything else?

they'd probably not go into JFK, but some airfield nearby with a hayshed on it for a terminal......but who cares.....

...and as for all this "it'll never happen" posts from the MOL and Ryainair haters, you guys will eat your words ...MOL is one of those unique people who make things happen slowly but surely.....

Shamrock231

MidlandsM wrote: »

they'd probably not go into JFK, but some airfield nearby with a hayshed on it for a terminal......but who cares.....

The can't, they can only go to JFK or to Newark, they're the only two airports with customs facilities. Other airports they can't fly to unless they were all pre-cleared at Dublin/Shannon, but one, that'd probably be too expensive for MOL and too, Dublin is already beyond capacity with some flights not even able to preclear. So it's going to be either JFK or Newark, no choice.

Peregrine

MidlandsM wrote: »

...and as for all this "it'll never happen" posts from the MOL and Ryainair haters, you guys will eat your words ...MOL is one of those unique people who make things happen slowly but surely.....

I hate neither O'Leary nor Ryanair. And don't get me wrong, transatlantic could happen maybe in 10 years or something but it won't happen for €10.

MOL is one of those people who will make things happen, yes. But he's also one of those people who will say things to get publicity. He said he wanted to make fat people pay more for tickets, he said he would sell standing tickets, he said he would charge people to use toilets and in an interview when asked about all of those he said "God no!", "No" and "No". You have to learn to differentiate between when he's serious and when he's using the media.

MidlandsM

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

I hate neither O'Leary nor Ryanair. And don't get me wrong, transatlantic could happen maybe in 10 years or something but it won't happen for €10.

MOL is one of those people who will make things happen, yes. But he's also one of those people who will say things to get publicity. He said he wanted to make fat people pay more for tickets, he said he would sell standing tickets, he said he would charge people to use toilets and in an interview when asked about all of those he said "God no!", "No" and "No". You have to learn to differentiate between when he's serious and when he's using the media.

ahhh, rowing back already ehhhhhhhhhh.......:P

LOL ....MOL has you fooled too, shure you posting and talking about him on the internet, job done for him, more free internet publicity......

you'll eat your words yet........

Stovepipe

Hi there,
Flying across the Atlantic (or any other long-haul) is much more expensive than short-haul because you have additional costs that don't apply in short-haul, such as needing to meet ETOPs provisions for your aircraft, paying transatlantic navigation charges, keeping money aside to cover the cost of diversions (try a diversion to Iceland, as a benchmark for high costs), maintaining an American base, training up aircrews and engineers, fitting your aircraft with WiFi (practically compulsory for longhaul now) and making provision to carry cargo (as pax fares alone will not pay for the flight) plus the need to hedge fuel very early as filling an aircraft with 60 tonnes per flight will soon hit the budget. Also, even Ryanair pilots, expected to pay for everything themselves will balk at having to pay to operate on the Atlantic and pay US hotel/accom/food costs. Imagine a Ryanair aircraft diverting to Iceland and the crew being told to pay for themselves at Icelandic rates.
I'm quite sure that canny MoL has looked into all of this and knows that the time is not yet right for FR to enter the Atlantic game, until he is sure of pleasing the Board and generating profit from day 1.

regards
Stovepipe

lufties

Stovepipe wrote: »

Hi there,
Flying across the Atlantic (or any other long-haul) is much more expensive than short-haul because you have additional costs that don't apply in short-haul, such as needing to meet ETOPs provisions for your aircraft, paying transatlantic navigation charges, keeping money aside to cover the cost of diversions (try a diversion to Iceland, as a benchmark for high costs), maintaining an American base, training up aircrews and engineers, fitting your aircraft with WiFi (practically compulsory for longhaul now) and making provision to carry cargo (as pax fares alone will not pay for the flight) plus the need to hedge fuel very early as filling an aircraft with 60 tonnes per flight will soon hit the budget. Also, even Ryanair pilots, expected to pay for everything themselves will balk at having to pay to operate on the Atlantic and pay US hotel/accom/food costs. Imagine a Ryanair aircraft diverting to Iceland and the crew being told to pay for themselves at Icelandic rates.
I'm quite sure that canny MoL has looked into all of this and knows that the time is not yet right for FR to enter the Atlantic game, until he is sure of pleasing the Board and generating profit from day 1.

regards
Stovepipe

good post there, its gonna be difficult for fr to establish a long haul arm. it seems to work here though for the likes of jetstar in the asia/pacific region..they are booming at the moment with cheap fares on routes such as syd to bkk and so on. of course the U.S is a different operation altogether but a long haul one all the same.

Tenger

One issue that any RyanAtlantic venture needs is a market surplus of relatively new widebodies at a good price. They would want to start with 5-10 aircraft straight away. THe aircraft market is currently at a high so not the right time to buy. MoL will wait a few years and is the aviation sector gets a 'shock' then we may well see cheap aircraft become available.
B767's are probably not efficient enough...so we are looking at A330's or B777's. The B777 probably suits best as it is larger (more seats always better for LCC's) Scoot use B772's from Singapore. With the popularity of the B773 and the imminent entry of the B777X into the market we could see quite a few relatively young B777's available in 3-5 years.

Going the other way, Norwegian are willing to invest heavily in the B787 in order to avail of its fuel efficiency on longhaul routes. Their CEO is quoted as saying that the A350 and B787 make longhaul low cost viable. (Norwegian also plan to use Asian crews and Ireland as a flag of convenience to keep their fixed costs down)

Jamie2k9

Obviously, slots at both airports, but is there anything else?

Government approval.

ted1

Shamrock231 wrote: »

The can't, they can only go to JFK or to Newark, they're the only two airports with customs facilities. Other airports they can't fly to unless they were all pre-cleared at Dublin/Shannon, but one, that'd probably be too expensive for MOL and too, Dublin is already beyond capacity with some flights not even able to preclear. So it's going to be either JFK or Newark, no choice.

Your only thinking about Ireland, they have many bases they could do transatlantic flights from that would not involve Ireland

Shamrock231

ted1 wrote: »

Your only thinking about Ireland, they have many bases they could do transatlantic flights from that would not involve Ireland

By definition Transatlantic flights into the USA don't originate in the USA. All flights outside the USA must arrive at a federally approved international airport with customs clearence. So it's JFK or Newark, no other option.

MidlandsM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

By definition Transatlantic flights into the USA don't originate in the USA. All flights outside the USA must arrive at a federally approved international airport with customs clearence. So it's JFK or Newark, no other option.

boston?

Florida?

Shamrock231

MidlandsM wrote: »

boston?

Florida?

Sure, but they'll still have to fly into the main international airport, doesn't matter what State or City you fly to, that's the way the FAA does it. They're not going to be able to fly to some cattle shed in the middle of no where.

Snowc

would love a few flight to iceland in winter to see the northern lights Micheal if your watching boards

Gael23

I will never again fly with Ryanair but whatever the airline, I wouldn't fancy a transatlantic flight on board a 737.

novarock

Is there an obligation on any flight to provide free food after a certain duration? One aspect that could be a serious saver for them.

Id say they will pull it off, if only to piss off the other airlines.

Shamrock231

Don't think so, Norwegian doesn't, or didn't but they've had to rethink that after a kid on their flight was made go 12 hours without food or water as he didn't have a credit card with him.

donvito99

ryanf1 wrote: »

I will never again fly with Ryanair but whatever the airline, I wouldn't fancy a transatlantic flight on board a 737.

What about the 757 though?

Stovepipe

Anyone who allows a child to fly without food/water for 12 hours, sack the Senior in the cabin crew, sack the Captain and jail the CEO for creating the policy in the first place. If you wouldn't put your child in a creche without rations for 12 hours, then doing so in an aeroplane is grossly unacceptable...............apart from that, 175 a/c over five years is basically enough per annum to replace those he would sell off, so it's no great addition to the normal fleet mass. that is, an a/c accepted in year 1 is sold off in year five, just short of the critical C check, so the huge expense of an overhaul is avoided and it is depreciated fully in the accounts. win-win.

regards
Stovepipe

Rocky Bay

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

it would be great if it brings down prices of other airlines ,but Ill never fly with Ryanair again anyway.

...and neither will I.

Mikehaw

Stovepipe wrote: »

Anyone who allows a child to fly without food/water for 12 hours, sack the Senior in the cabin crew, sack the Captain and jail the CEO for creating the policy in the first place. If you wouldn't put your child in a creche without rations for 12 hours, then doing so in an aeroplane is grossly unacceptable...............apart from that, 175 a/c over five years is basically enough per annum to replace those he would sell off, so it's no great addition to the normal fleet mass. that is, an a/c accepted in year 1 is sold off in year five, just short of the critical C check, so the huge expense of an overhaul is avoided and it is depreciated fully in the accounts. win-win.

regards
Stovepipe

Have you been drinking? That post makes very little sense!

Qualitymark

Tenner a flight? Remember those €1-no-taxes-no-charges flights to Europe a few years ago? Flying to Europe with Ryanair is a little dearer now. The airline might start it as a gimmick, but as soon as they own the market the prices will take off, rising smoothly...

ted1

Shamrock231 wrote: »

By definition Transatlantic flights into the USA don't originate in the USA. All flights outside the USA must arrive at a federally approved international airport with customs clearence. So it's JFK or Newark, no other option.

Your contracdicting yourself you say they can land elsewhere if there pre cleared in Dublin or Shannon.

I'm saying that they could get pre cleared in some other country. Where the flight will originate.

Peregrine

ted1 wrote: »

Your contracdicting yourself you say they can land elsewhere if there pre cleared in Dublin or Shannon.

I'm saying that they could get pre cleared in some other country. Where the flight will originate.

Dublin and Shannon are the only airports outside North America(incl. Canada and the Carribean) with US border pre clearance

Shamrock231

ted1 wrote: »

Your contracdicting yourself you say they can land elsewhere if there pre cleared in Dublin or Shannon.

I'm saying that they could get pre cleared in some other country. Where the flight will originate.

No, they can't. As Nimrod 7 states, the only airports in Europe they can preclear in is Dublin or Shannon. No other airport in Europe has those facilities. If a flight originates from any other airport they will have to fly into a big international airport in the US, not a cattle shed. Even some flights from Dublin can't be cleared at the minute due to the facility being at it's limit, so Ryanair won't be able to do it from Dublin, leaving only Shannon, which can probably only process 3-4 more flights a day.

MidlandsM

I find it amusing reading all the armchair experts/airline CEO's here......and it'll be egg on the face all round and I'll drag up this thread when MOL and/or Ryanair start doing flights to the US cheaper than everyone else.

The fact is this...MOL is bored now. He's done Europe, and proved it. Basically, he won.

He's now looking to the next big challenge.......and we all know what it is.

Also, I have to laugh at the people you hear or post "Ohhhh, I never fly Ryanair" ........like who gives a toss who you fly with?? ...the answer is nobody care.........nobody.

Grandpa Hassan

Qualitymark wrote: »

Tenner a flight? Remember those €1-no-taxes-no-charges flights to Europe a few years ago? Flying to Europe with Ryanair is a little dearer now. The airline might start it as a gimmick, but as soon as they own the market the prices will take off, rising smoothly...

Not really. It's not a gimmick. OK, not €1 any more, but I regularly fly London Dublin for €19.99 no taxes no charges. You only pay a lot if you don't book early

rainbowdash

MidlandsM wrote: »

I find it amusing reading all the armchair experts/airline CEO's here......and it'll be egg on the face all round and I'll drag up this thread when MOL and/or Ryanair start doing flights to the US cheaper than everyone else.

The fact is this...MOL is bored now. He's done Europe, and proved it. Basically, he won.

He's now looking to the next big challenge.......and we all know what it is.

Also, I have to laugh at the people you hear or post "Ohhhh, I never fly Ryanair" ........like who gives a toss who you fly with?? ...the answer is nobody care.........nobody.

A stopped clock is right twice a day. I am sure eventually Ryanair may enter the transatlantic market at some point, Ryanair first trumpted the "beds and blowjobs" line over 5 years ago.

I don't see how anybody on this thread would have egg on their face or be considered to be proven wrong if it eventually happens.


I agree with you on the "I will never fly Ryanair again" clowns though, nobody cares about their sob story.

Anybody who has to fly regularly will take their chances with Ryanair if they are flying into the most convenient airport when the alternative would be 2 flights with Aer Lingus etc.

NiallJS99

737 on transatlantic flight = Crazy!

urajoke

NiallJS99 wrote: »

737 on transatlantic flight = Crazy!

No where does it say he will fly 737s across the Atlantic, he is buying them for current operations.

NiallJS99

urajoke wrote: »

No where does it say he will fly 737s across the Atlantic, he is buying them for current operations.

OK but the article is a bit misleading.

L1011

NiallJS99 wrote: »

737 on transatlantic flight = Crazy!

Ignoring the major issue that they're not going to use them; it is possible and done. Sun Country have served Gatwick and Stansted.

There's also business class only flights in 737 and A320 family planes, but Sun Country did it with a conventional layout/load.

urajoke

Flying in a 737 would not necessarily be any worse than flying on a 757 or an a330, it all depends on how tight they want to cram you in, more passengers equals more bags equals less range.

That is beside the fact they won't fly a 737 across the Atlantic. I have to say I didn't find the article misleading in the slightest.

kub

urajoke wrote: »

Flying in a 737 would not necessarily be any worse than flying on a 757 or an a330, it all depends on how tight they want to cram you in, more passengers equals more bags equals less range.

That is beside the fact they won't fly a 737 across the Atlantic. I have to say I didn't find the article misleading in the slightest.

MOL did mention that they would need twin aisle planes for t/a routes. 737's are single aisle, i am obviously stating the obvious so hopefully that is the end of that thought.