Father won't talk to me

anonandhurt

I'd really like some outsider perspective on this. Family are no help. Sorry for long post.

I've lived abroad for a few years. Last year I made a trip home and had a falling out with my father. I have not heard from him since.

He was mad at my brother and I stuck up for my brother. He accused me of always taking other peoples side and said I was against him.

It upset me hugely as he didn't talk to me for the rest of my vacation and when I was leaving and tried to say goodbye to him, he literally sat there, stared at the tv and said nothing. To say it hurt was an understatement.

When I got home, I gave it a month and sent him a message asking why he wouldn't talk to me; I got a reply which said when I was ready to apologise to him, he would be ready to listen. I have not heard from him since.
Nothing at Christmas, nothing on my birthday, I was in hospital recently and not a peep. Its been almost a year now.

What hurts the most is that none of my family will help me even though I have begged them to. They literally ignore it. They have no problem talking to me or keeping in contact with me but won't help on this thing.

They all get on great with my dad, I see pictures of them all having a great old time on Facebook and it KILLS me because when I ask them to talk to him, they just go quiet and change the subject. Any problems with my brother are long forgotten.

I love my mum and miss her terribly but I honestly don't want to talk to her anymore because I feel so let down and betrayed by her and the rest of my family.

It was fathers day recently and I was so angry and hurt that I almost posted a nasty message on Facebook about him. My family would be mortified if anyone knew. I have no doubt that he tells everyone I'm doing great and relaying any stories I tell my mother to other people.

What should I do? He literally has made no effort to keep in touch with me. None.

Just to clarify; we would have spoken maybe once a week before my holiday home last year so its not a case of drifting apart. This is a conscious thing on his part.

username123

anonandhurt wrote: »

What should I do? He literally has made no effort to keep in touch with me. None.

Well what can you do? You have made an attempts to allow the dust to settle and resolve things and he has refused to engage with you.

You are suffering and he knows this. He is delighted to see you suffer because you hurt him. People like him know that absolute silence is the worst hurt of all. He will by now have twisted your relatively minor upset that began all of this into some huge awful hurt that you perpetrated on him and poor him. Victim complex to the max. Selfish and twisted thinking. You are better off without someone like this in your life - hard though this is for you to hear. And as for the rest of the family - well people choose their battles and by the sounds of things, its easier to treat you like this than him - because they are afraid of being ignored too. Your father uses this behaviour to control his family. So yes, they will betray you, because they are afraid to betray him.

I was estranged from my own parents and when they died I hadnt had any contact with them for a number of years. I have never regretted it. They were toxic individuals who really did nothing but bring harm and dysfunction into my life. I remain estranged from my only sibling and am perfectly happy to remain so - I would not want such a toxic presence in my life.

Sometimes you have to let go of these toxic individuals. Its not easy. But living as you are, eaten up by the hurt, is no way to live.

I would strongly suggest that you try to accept that this relationship is gone. I say this because even at this stage if your father agreed to "be your friend again" - the damage is done. You are not going to forget being ignored for a year. Someone who can do that to you is not someone who cares about you or who you can trust. If he "made friends" with you - you would forever be on tenterhooks watching how you behaved towards him or what you said to him - in fear of another incident of being sent to Coventry and ignored again. Its not worth it man, not at all. Try to rise above it and surround yourself by people who love you and are positive influences in your life. Sometimes family are just a negative presence.

Merkin

anonandhurt wrote: »

He was mad at my brother and I stuck up for my brother. He accused me of always taking other peoples side and said I was against him.

And how is his relationship with your brother now? There must be more to this story, he can't simply have cut you out for taking your brother's side. What was the argument about?

anonandhurt

Merkin wrote: »

And how is his relationship with your brother now? There must be more to this story, he can't simply have cut you out for taking your brother's side. What was the argument about?

I know it sounds like there must be but if there is, I'm not aware of it. He accused my brother of stealing money from him. I said that he should hang on and ask my brother before jumping to conclusions, that anything could have happened to it.

The kicker is that, from what I can tell from Facebook, they are best buds again.

omahaid

You could apologise. I'm not saying you're wrong but if an apology is all it takes and you really want the relationship re-established then it's surely an option?

anonandhurt

username123 wrote: »

Sometimes family are just a negative presence.

Thanks username. I will consider all you just said. The thing is, I do think I could cut my father out now. He has hurt me too much.

But my mother calls me every day. She leaves me messages asking why I don't want to talk to her. That she misses me. That she loves me. That she is sorry.

When I tell her how much I am hurting she will leave me alone for a few days but then turns around and acts like nothing has happened and starts again.

It kills me because I miss her too but I am so ANGRY at her. I feel like I am projecting the anger I feel towards my father onto her and I don't want to but she is just being so passive :mad:

anonandhurt

omahaid wrote: »

You could apologise. I'm not saying you're wrong but if an apology is all it takes and you really want the relationship re-established then it's surely an option?

I think about it every day Omahaid. I really do. I just can't bring myself to do it. I don't know why. That's why I'm on here. I'm wondering if I'm being absurd and maybe I should just apologise?

Hoping boardsies can give an objective opinion.

username123

anonandhurt wrote: »

Thanks username. I will consider all you just said. The thing is, I do think I could cut my father out now. He has hurt me too much.

But my mother calls me every day. She leaves me messages asking why I don't want to talk to her. That she misses me. That she loves me. That she is sorry.

When I tell her how much I am hurting she will leave me alone for a few days but then turns around and acts like nothing has happened and starts again.

It kills me because I miss her too but I am so ANGRY at her. I feel like I am projecting the anger I feel towards my father onto her and I don't want to but she is just being so passive :mad:

Yeah, my mother was very similar. It was really my father who was the problem (he was an aggressive alcoholic who dealt with conflict by cutting people out until they apologised to him regardless of who was wrong). I had a lot of problems with conflict resolution myself because growing up all conflict was dealt with by being shouted at then the silent treatment until I apologised. It got to be that I couldnt accept apologies off people because I thought they meant nothing - I had made so many meaningless apologies myself. Then there was the acting like nothing had happened. A massive upset, lots of shouting and roaring, silent treatment, apology and 5 minutes later he would act like we were best friends. I would be so upset inside that I would be physically shaking. Today I have great difficulty in letting go of an upset because the distress stays with me and takes me back to how I used to be treated. Its not healthy. Its not a healthy way to maintain a relationship. Its basically bullying behaviour.

My mother stood by and actually behaved a lot like yours is. She would try to guilt me into talking to her or act like nothing was wrong. She was his puppet, dancing to his tune. Ultimately she suffered years of being bullied by him too - but she chose to stay in that position.

You have to look after yourself. Let go of the anger. Talk to your mother if you want to, not if you dont want to.

Nothing anyone can say here is going to heal the hurt, your father has already hammered the nail into the coffin of your relationship by his own actions. But you can look after yourself and try to accept things as they are and look at how you behave in conflict and try to become a better person yourself.

ABajaninCork

I can't offer much advice OP, except to express my sympathy and best wishes...

I understand where you're coming from as I have a similar situation with my mother. At one point I didn't speak to her for 8 years. Then things got back on track, after a fashion. Now I'm not speaking to her again. This time, I think this is it. Sad, but true. She's gone too far this time. I understand it's difficult detaching from a parent, but like username123 says, you MUST for the sake of your health and sanity. Let your father come to you. From what you've said, there's NOTHING to apologise for, except for your father's pig-headedness and stubborness.

Maybe some counselling might help?

anonandhurt

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I

Maybe some counselling might help?

Thanks ABajanin. If you don't mind me asking, did you go to counselling?

I know your not originally from Ireland so I'm assuming your mother is abroad? Was counselling any good when you couldn't meet her and resolve anything or get anything close to closure?

ABajaninCork

No anonandhurt, I'm not Irish. I'm English and my family are all in London. I've had counselling which has helped to some degree, but you can't talk to a wall! People might think you're mad...

Closure's a funny word. How do you define it? In your case, you'll never get closure. Even when your father passes, I daresay there'll still be some hurt, anger and guilt. All you can do is to find the most suitable tools to deal with it.

username123

Just on closure. I gave myself closure. I didnt need my parents permission to have closure on a situation that I was upset about.

I had a wonderful epiphany one day when I realised that I could get a take away and watch tv eating it and NOT feel bad about this. It was just the personal choice to enjoy my take away and the telly. It was also a personal choice to feel bad about things. So I stopped feeling bad about things.

I had group therapy because of the alcoholism - it helped enormously.

Oryx

You and your father are caught in a battle of wills. Neither of you wants to give in and lose this one, so you wont apologise and he wont talk to you. It is over something petty on both sides, when you look at it from here. Yeah, I know he started it, and you feel you have right on your side, and yeah, he is the one really, who got it to this stage, but BOTH of you are causing it to continue, not just him.

You have to ask yourself how much you want things back to normal, and whether you can be 'normal' after all this anyway. If you don't think you can forgive him for this, then you have to find a way of relating to the rest of your family without this interfering. Don't blame them for having developed their own methods for getting along with him. Even if you disagree with their behaviour, these are their coping strategies with someone who is obviously a difficult and stubborn man. Don't become another person in their lives who does this to them.

Lorna123

From what you have said OP I see nothing wrong with what you said to your father when he accused your brother. In fact it was the right thing to say in the circumstances. Your father was mad because he knew you were right so he ostracized you because you came across more levelheaded than he was. The older generation find it very hard to apologize, especially the men. I don't see any reason for you to apologize.

However, I would not distance your mother because of this. She could be the very person who will mend fences for you and make things a lot easier. She can't persuade your father to ease up but don't penalize her for trying because you can bet your boots she has tried. Please don't pierce her heart any further. She loves you dearly and this is causing her great pain, believe me.

You know what you could do OP, you could take the higher road, and write him a letter with a careful choice of words that will melt his heart, e.g.

Dear Dad,

It has grieved me a lot the way things have deteriorated between us. I never meant to undermine your views in any way as I have always looked up to you. I am sorry that things have turned out like this as life is too short for stuff like this to come between us.

I miss you and I would like us to be on speaking terms again as I always enjoyed our chats.
____

This letter is not an apology. All you are doing is expressing your sorrow that things have deteriorated so much. If he cannot meet you half way at this stage he is a very foolish man. You sound like a wonderful caring daughter and I really hope this is resolved pretty soon.

CaraMay

You are treating your mother how your father is treating you....

The rest of your family are like piggy in the middle between you and your father yet you expect everyone to take your side despite your treatment of your mother.

Leave her out of your battle. It's very selfish on your part to be doing this to her.

You can't make your father talk to you but you can start to treat your mother and family well. If you don't you might have no one talking to you pretty soon.

December2012

Your mother misses you.

Why is she missing you?

As in, why did your relationship break down with her?

You fell out with your Dad, not her.

Are you distant from your brother? You say you found out that he is great pals with your Dad via Facebook - don't you talk to each other?

irishgrover

What is more important to you personally; validating that you are right and that your father was and still is at fault OR rebuilding your relationship with your father, and if the latter what cost are you willing to pay to reinstate the relationship?

Best of luck with whatever happens

jimmycrackcorm

Op, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face, so to speak. Why can't you be the bigger person and apologise whether you are in the right or not?

If you need an excuse then simply balance out how much he has done for you when you were growing up vs what you have done for him.

Life's too short when you are simply refusing to take an opportunity to move past this when in no time this spat would be forgotten.

feargale

anonandhurt wrote: »

I know it sounds like there must be but if there is, I'm not aware of it. He accused my brother of stealing money from him. I said that he should hang on and ask my brother before jumping to conclusions, that anything could have happened to it.
The kicker is that, from what I can tell from Facebook, they are best buds again.

Does your brother know that you stuck up for him? If he does it seems very strange that he will do nothing to help.

JustAThought

feargale wrote: »

Does your brother know that you stuck up for him? If he does it seems very strange that he will do nothing to help.

& what happened about the missing money? If your dad was mistaken about this perhaps he could see that you were OK to stick up for your brother.

If not -dosn't his argument have some validity?

Perhaps the real issue is that you are both very similar I ways -both have very tender/sensitive outlooks, would like loyalty and respect, and want people close to them to stand up for them & be their allies .

Perhaps wanting the solid support of someone -a child - he loves & nurtured, in a time of crisis & turmoil isn't such a horrific thing to want. he was already hurt by one child's perceived wrong, perhaps for a long missed daughter to not stand by him & support him in this really tumultuous time was too much. He must have really missed you and been looking forward to your return.


Was he right? Did your brother take the money?

IrishEyes19

your probably not going to like this, but how about reaching a compromise. In my experience, arguments like this happen because people with-hold grudges that they have with people and they come out then at the worst times. your father obviously felt before this, that you always sided against him. Now fair enough maybe you didnt, but regardless of this, he believes it. the issue with your brother must have been serious enough to your dad in order for him to sideline you.

if you deep down would like to engage with your dad again, because life is short OP, once people are gone, they are gone and your post reeks of someone who I think would be haunted if it came to that time when you could never speak to him again. you need to sit down together and have it out. arrive at the house unexpectidly, dont give him the option to refuse to be there. dont attack him straight off either. Listen to what he says and then reply with how you feel. I really think family blood unless they have done unspeakable things is thicker than water and issues can be resolved. Sometimes people just dont take into account the hurt other people feel. your dad feels hurt because you didnt take his side and you feel hurt for being ignored by your dad and the way your family doesnt seem to care.

you can resolve this, but it's going to take a bit of humility and a bit of tossing out the problems together. Best of luck.

anonandhurt

Thanks for all the replies. Some really great advice.

Two things:
1 - I'm a girl
2 - This is the second time my father and I have gone a year without speaking. First occasion was because he was violent towards my mother and I intervened

I know I'm hurting my family when I don't talk to them but I just feel so mad that they are doing nothing. I don't wan't to hurt them but I don't know how to not feel hurt when I do. It's almost like me vs them. Either they hurt or I do.

I don't know what happened the money but I do know that my brother and dad get on great now and when I try and talk to my brother about it he shuts down, changes the subject and then doesn't contact me until I call him again.

I think the only real way to solve this is counselling but I guess what I want is for people to tell me if I am justified in seeking it or if I'm just being a selfish little so and so and should just pull my head out of my arse?

CaraMay

"Either they hurt or I do"

This is your justification for treating your mother like this. Yep you need to take your head out and stop trying to bully people into falling in line. You and your dad sound quite similar. You have a gripe with him and take it out on your poor ( already bullied) mother. He has a gripe with your brother and takes it out on you.

Yep counselling needed.

feargale

CaraMay wrote: »

"Either they hurt or I do"

This is your justification for treating your mother like this. Yep you need to take your head out and stop trying to bully people into falling in line. You and your dad sound quite similar. You have a gripe with him and take it out on your poor ( already bullied) mother. He has a gripe with your brother and takes it out on you.

Yep counselling needed.

And what do you think of the behaviour of OP's father?

anonandhurt

CaraMay wrote: »

stop trying to bully people into falling in line

Hang on a sec. I never said I bully them. I said I can't help feeling the emotions I feel. So by feeling hurt and betrayed when I make the effort to contact them, I'm a bully?

If I could cut myself out of their life and not hurt them, I probably would have done that already.

Let's get one thing straight CaraMay, hurting does not make me a bad person. Just because you apparently can turn your emotions on and off, doesn't mean the rest of the world can. So maybe consider how other people feel before you call them names behind your internet veil.

liquoriceall

anonandhurt wrote: »

Hang on a sec. I never said I bully them. I said I can't help feeling the emotions I feel. So by feeling hurt and betrayed when I make the effort to contact them, I'm a bully?

If I could cut myself out of their life and not hurt them, I probably would have done that already.

Let's get one thing straight CaraMay, hurting does not make me a bad person. Just because you apparently can turn your emotions on and off, doesn't mean the rest of the world can. So maybe consider how other people feel before you call them names behind your internet veil.

I really feel for you this is a terrible position you are in & its such a Irish way of behaving on your mum & siblings parts-ignore it
Has your dad always been difficult? You spoke about a domestic violence incident, has he always used bullying to get his own way?
I feel that he is not used to being challenged & frankly deals with it through emotional blackmail. To me its a nasty behaviour & I can understand your annoyance & hurt at the perseeved endorsement of his behaviour by your mum, however its likely he does this to her too but she relents for an easy life & she possibly can not understand why you wont!!
I have no real advice other than to say I detest emotional blackmail & consider it to be abusive so I say go to see a consellor & learn to detach if possible
Good luck

CaraMay

feargale wrote: »

And what do you think of the behaviour of OP's father?

It's ridiculous but no different to the op's own behaviour towards her mother.

Op don't deem yourself capable if understanding what emotions I mat or may not have. My point is tour father sounds like a bully and you are doing what he does - go figure.

anonandhurt

CaraMay wrote: »

Op don't deem yourself capable if understanding what emotions I mat or may not have. My point is tour father sounds like a bully and you are doing what he does - go figure.

So you're allowed to decide that I'm a bully because I don't want to get hurt but I'm not allowed to cast judgement on you? Very sorry CaraMay, didn't realise.

Anyway, back on track.

Yes my father is a typical Irish father. Angry. Would give you a whallop every now and again. Yes he would be violent towards my mother and siblings growing up and while I know people will be outraged at that. I've just learnt to accept that is how he was and from talking to other people, this was a typical Irish father.

Thing is I know I'm nothing like him. When I'm having problems with someone I try and address them head on (shown by trying to say goodbye to him when I was leaving despite him not talking to me for a week and messaging him a month later trying to resolve it). Generally, I'll apologise when I'm wrong.

I just don't understand why my family are happy for him to treat me like this? Especially my brother who I was sticking up for. Hurts to think you mean so little to people.

Merkin

anonandhurt wrote: »

Yes my father is a typical Irish father. Angry. Would give you a whallop every now and again. Yes he would be violent towards my mother and siblings growing up and while I know people will be outraged at that. I've just learnt to accept that is how he was and from talking to other people, this was a typical Irish father.

I realise that personally I've been blessed with the best Dad ever (he is so kind and loving) but saying all Irish fathers are like the above is a sad and misguided generalization. They are not all like that and passing his disgusting behaviour off as being typical or to be expected is wrong. As well as setting the bar pretty low for yourself.

You seem perplexed that your mother and siblings have not intervened but from what you have just told us, this is because more than likely they are afraid of him. If he has used violence and bullying in the past then of course they are going to be wary of confronting him over anything. They are probably afraid to rock the boat in any way and consequently it appears they are being disloyal.

I'm not really sure what to advise unfortunately as it seems unlikely that your father will back down (he sounds vile - no offense) so then really it is your call as to whether you want to issue a perfunctory and disingenuous half-apology in order to keep the peace and restore equilibrium. I'm not sure I'd be able to but from a purely selfish point of view it would make your trips home a hell of a lot easier. TLDR: he's not going to change or apologise so the ball is in your court.

username123

Op I think you need to learn to love yourself and stop worrying about other people so much.

Its very very difficult for someone who has not had a dysfunctional family to understand that its not just a simple matter of apologising and things getting back on track. To do so is actually enabling the dysfunctional behaviour of the toxic individual and putting you back into the role where you loathe yourself (and them) for giving in again. I get it.

Given what you have subsequently posted, it is clear that your father is a bully both physically and emotionally. I knew when I first posted here that the silent treatment was not one event out of the blue - this type of behaviour has a pattern and a history with an individual.

Basically your father uses both physical abuse and emotional abuse to get everyone to toe the line. Given what you said about pictures on FB of your brother having a great time with him etc I can just imagine he is the greatest craic - when he wants to be and when he chooses to treat someone well, he overloads it. Thats all part of the manipulation process. I doubt he is even aware of it. It keeps everyone in line to be Mr Fun when it suits - so there is a reward for being his friend. And then the punishment for not being his friend is physical violence - or emotional cut off - which in fact is worse. He is willing to escalate to the max to get his family to grovel to him.

Its shocking but not a bit surprising that there was another period of a year where he didnt speak to you.

Let me tell you - my father related to people and the world like that as well. By the time he died he had driven everyone in his life (except my mother) away. He had had many different periods of not speaking to various siblings of his.

My brother behaves in the same way. He didnt speak to me for possibly 8 years through my late teens and mid 20s. Then he appeared one day and wanted to be my friends. A few years and a lot of dysfunction later I had enough. Now we have been estranged for a number of years but this is not a punishment in my view - I actually do not want this person in my life, at all. I have not detached with hatred though. Thats the difference between using emotional blackmail on someone and simply refusing to allow dysfunction in your life.

Your father will ignore you for a year, but if you grovel to him, he will be your best pal. If my brother came to grovel to me I would tell him to grow up and move on and still not want to be in contact with him.

The only way for you to move past this is to accept that your father is a bully and deal with it on your terms not on his. For you that might mean just not bothering with him again - no big drama, simply live your life and forget this person. You are struggling with the rest of the family. This is another manipulation through your father and he knows it. He knows its hard for you that they dont give you support. What you are not seeing is that its not about you (for them). Its about him. They dont want to end up like you, being ignored and not supported by everyone else. Its a very very clever manipulation device.

Definitely get counselling. Another thing you should do is read up on dysfunctional families. There is loads of literature out there with great wisdom and insight into families and dysfunction. An old one that I found good is this.

You are nothing like your father. Only someone very naive who has no experience of family dysfunction would think that. You are actually breaking the cycle right now because of the struggle you are having.

Its important to realise that the advice people give you is based on their own experiences and while well meaning, its a load of rubbish if they cannot relate to where you are coming from. To give an analogy, if I had a penny for every person who told me that I should just hide the booze from my alcoholic father - Id be rich. Seriously, the answer to a complex addiction is not - hide the booze! But people dont know what they are talking about because not everyone has been unlucky enough to experience a horrifically bullying parent who has exerted control since your birth. There are complex dynamics at work. You are one of the lucky ones to realise that this is not right. Plenty of people just fall into line.

Forever Hopeful

Op,

I felt compelled to respond to this thread because I really really feel for you. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. Like Merkin, I am extremely fortunate to have the most wonderful Dad and every year, I adore him more. He is the kindest, most generous man and the thought of not speaking to him would kill me. He, however, had a cruel bully of a father and when he talks to me about him, he does it with such a pragmatic, unemotional way, it astounds me.
My mother on the other hand, although I get on great with her, can be a piece of work and we've had our issues in the past (silent treatment from her - when I was a child I didn't understand). She's apologised as I've gotten older and we get on great. She is highly critical and has no loyalties but as I've gotten older I realise she is a very insecure, hypersensitive person so now that I am aware of and can 'work around' her if you know what I mean.
So on the back of that, I want to say fair play to you for standing up for your mother and your brother. I would have done the very same thing. The problem is that it is unreciprocated. That bit got to me. You have no one on your side (in your family) standing up for you. Of course you are hurt, this is your family, you should be looking out for each other. Your brother should have spoken to your Dad on your behalf, your mother should have also but it sounds like your father is so controlling they are afraid to rock the boat. That is extremely hurtful for you and upsetting. However, you weren't afraid to rock the boat so well done!
I guess the rest boils down to how important it is to you to maintain your relationship with them. No one here can tell you how you feel or what you should do. Your family (I assume) are all together so I suspect your father reckons you'll come crawling back but since you are on your own, its 1000 times worse.
I've been hurt by my siblings, taken advantage of, taken for granted by my mother but in each time my Dad would stand up for me. He sees the reality and never forgets. He knows how to 'manage' my mum and I think I've learned from him to separate what she says/does from reality.

I guess in a roundabout way, I'm trying to say decide what's best for you, how important your family are to you. Your mother and brother are lucky to have someone on their side. I really hope your father and mother grow up and start acting like parents than children themselves.

Bigdeadlydave

I think username123 is projecting a lot of his/her situation into this.

OP I reckon there is a lot more to this you are not telling us, just send your dad a letter saying you are sorry and that you wish it never got this far. You dont have to mean it, and its not as if you see him every day, you live in another country, the most you will have to put up with is the odd phone call.

username123

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

I think username123 is projecting a lot of his/her situation into this.

Obviously I can only speak from my own experiences. It can help people to hear the experiences of others who have suffered similar. Its not projection, its simply sharing to provide a similar perspective.

Personally I think sending a letter you dont mean is only going to cause more damage to the OP long term. At some point a person has to draw a line in the sand and refuse to engage with someone elses dysfunctional behaviour. However, that is only my opinion.

noah45

OP I feel for you and am in sort of a similar situation but with my mother. She is never wrong no matter what, when she hurts me its always my fault. She ticks all the boxes for 'narcistic mother' my father and sister always side with her.

I want them out of my life because all I get is grief, anxiety sadness etc, but I struggle with the fact that its possibly wrong to cut them out.
My life would be way better for me and my children if I cut them out. I do understand where you are coming from. Have no advice but just letting you jnow that you are not alone.

ladysarah

Hi Noah45 a friend of mine cut her parents totally out of her life but it is having a huge efffvt on her. She does not know whst she will do when they die re funneral. My advise limit contact with them to maybe once a month or whatever feels right!

MelanieD

noah45 wrote: »

OP I feel for you and am in sort of a similar situation but with my mother. She is never wrong no matter what, when she hurts me its always my fault. She ticks all the boxes for 'narcistic mother' my father and sister always side with her.

I want them out of my life because all I get is grief, anxiety sadness etc, but I struggle with the fact that its possibly wrong to cut them out.
My life would be way better for me and my children if I cut them out. I do understand where you are coming from. Have no advice but just letting you jnow that you are not alone.

Last year I cut my mother out of my life and my younger sister sided with her. It was hard at first. I felt guilty. But as time moves on, my only regret is not cutting my nasty family off sooner. I have wasted all those years trying to win their respect but all I got in return was their hostility, criticism and put downs. Take one day at a time, focus on the stuff that matters and hopefully you will feel better.

wallycharlo

anonandhurt wrote: »

...I got a reply which said when I was ready to apologise to him, he would be ready to listen...

Make the first move and approach him with an apologetic tone, and take it from there. Hopefully the conversation then goes in the directon you wish, and you can patch things up.

You blinked first? So what.

You will both be long enough in the ground, and the day will come where there is no going back.

username123

wallycharlo wrote: »

You will both be long enough in the ground, and the day will come where there is no going back.

So? Sometimes its better not to go back. I certainly have never had any regrets about doing something positive for myself and cutting the toxicity out of my own life. Your statement assumes there is something good to go back for - unfortunately for some of us, thats not how it is.

LittleBook

anonandhurt wrote: »

First occasion was because he was violent towards my mother and I intervened ... the second time my father and I have gone a year without speaking ... He accused my brother of stealing money from him. I said that he should hang on and ask my brother before jumping to conclusions, that anything could have happened to it.

anonandhurt wrote: »

Yes my father is a typical Irish father. Angry. Would give you a whallop every now and again. Yes he would be violent towards my mother and siblings growing up and while I know people will be outraged at that.

OP, this is not a "typical" Irish father ... this is someone who is a violent, ignorant, disgusting bully and who you do not want or need in your life.

anonandhurt wrote: »

I've just learnt to accept that is how he was ...

I know I'm hurting my family when I don't talk to them but I just feel so mad that they are doing nothing. I don't wan't to hurt them but I don't know how to not feel hurt when I do. It's almost like me vs them. Either they hurt or I do ...

I just don't understand why my family are happy for him to treat me like this? Especially my brother who I was sticking up for. Hurts to think you mean so little to people.

You need to start seeing the similarities between you and your family before you can work through your differences with them.

They are doing the same thing that you did for years ... putting up with him for a quiet life and accepting him for how he is ... that's the similarity. I doubt your family are "happy" for him to treat you like this, I suspect there is a lot less happiness in your family than you think or than Facebook implies. But you must see that his behaviour has been tolerated for years and years, this is not new and it is not about you.

The difference is that you no longer tolerate him, possibly because you have had years of physical distance from him. So you're different, you've changed the family dynamic, which is a good thing!

But you need to see your family's behaviour more in the context of themselves than in the context of you ... they are carrying on as normal, as they've been conditioned to behave over the years ... they don't love you any less but they are not ready to do anything differently.

anonandhurt wrote: »

I think the only real way to solve this is counselling but I guess what I want is for people to tell me if I am justified in seeking it or if I'm just being a selfish little so and so and should just pull my head out of my arse?

You are absolutely right, I think counselling will be a huge help to you. The best you can do is get yourself into a frame of mind where you can enjoy the family that you love and leave your father to stew in his own mire.

feargale

Is it ok to ask, OP, if you've got it sorted out?

Emme

anonandhurt wrote: »

Two things:
1 - I'm a girl
2 - This is the second time my father and I have gone a year without speaking. First occasion was because he was violent towards my mother and I intervened

I know I'm hurting my family when I don't talk to them but I just feel so mad that they are doing nothing. I don't wan't to hurt them but I don't know how to not feel hurt when I do. It's almost like me vs them. Either they hurt or I do.

I don't know what happened the money but I do know that my brother and dad get on great now and when I try and talk to my brother about it he shuts down, changes the subject and then doesn't contact me until I call him again.

I think the only real way to solve this is counselling but I guess what I want is for people to tell me if I am justified in seeking it or if I'm just being a selfish little so and so and should just pull my head out of my arse?

OP, you are not being selfish. From what I can see here your family environment has not been good and it has probably affected your self-confidence. Well done in moving abroad and getting away from them.

If your brother is living at home or near your parents then he probably has to suck it up and admit he's wrong regardless of who's guilty. This means taking your parents side and not yours even if they are wrong.

If your father has been violent towards you all and your mother stayed with him then she's not going to be helpful to you in this situation. Perhaps she is being used as a conduit to try and get you to step back in line. Ignore the phone calls. Don't give in to her guilt trips. She might miss you but she has chosen to stay with your father and not defend you and your siblings against his violence. To put it bluntly, she has made her bed and let her lie in it.

As regards the photos on FB, I would advise you to unfriend your family so you don't see any more pictures. They are only pictures on FB, the true story could be completely different and I'm sure you know this well.

My advice is to do the following:

Cut off contact with your family completely for the moment. Unfriend them from your FB as well.

Do not give in to your mother and don't let her make you feel guilty when she says that she misses you. If she misses you that much she can get a plane ticket and come over to see you. I don't think she misses you so much as she wants to put a guilt trip on you.

If you can get some counselling. You are abroad and living away from your family which will make it easier to deal with the situation.

As regards your father being a "typical Irish father" he isn't. Unfortunately there are many other fathers in Ireland like him including my own. Perhaps your mother or somebody else tried to convince you that this behaviour is normal. It isn't. I was told that my father's abusive behaviour was normal (bullying, verbal abuse, physical abuse and financial abuse) but was aware enough to realise that it wasn't. It can be hard to escape the clutches of such families. You managed to go abroad and escape so that is one positive thing. Go one step further and get counseling. Cut off contact with all of them if this is what is necessary. There is nothing wrong with being estranged from your parents if it is essential to your survival.

Good luck.

Big Bag of Chips

feargale, as per The Personal Issues Charter, it is NOT ok to ask the OP for an update.

Do not ask for updates/to be kept updated - this prevents threads turning into blogs or soap operas for others amusement and avoids puting pressure on the original poster to return to the thread.

Starokan

Counselling is very useful when dealing with any situation that is putting you under stress, it does not matter what other people think of the situation if you need help to deal with it then seek help and never be ashamed for it

Your dad is acting like a child, personally I would not give him the apology he is looking for, to put it bluntly he is an ass. Sadly he may never realise the damage he is causing, you often see young siblings not speaking to each other, as they mature they realise how childish the behaviour is and stop, your dad has never matured.

Dont blame your family, if your honest with yourself you want them to side with you, they wont do so either because they think there is a pair of you in it or they simply dont want to create further upset. Are they right, not necessarily but they have a right to make their own decision.

I have a lot of sympathy for your mother, I know how hurt you are but you are causing her the same level of hurt to make your point, its a carbon copy of what your dad is doing to you. Your mother is very probably weakened by your dad at this stage in their lives and she simply cannot change him. I think you will greatly regret it if you cut her out and would advise you instead to open up to her and remain the friends you have always been, try and understand her life. She is living with a man who was violent towards her, who is clearly very manipulative, she may well be trying to get him to contact you, perhaps she is failing, if so what does she do?

Behaviour patterns must change somewhere, dont take on your fathers fault

Good luck with this, its a horrible situation and your own hurt is clearly evident. I hope you go to counselling and that it benefits you

Emme

Starokan wrote: »

I have a lot of sympathy for your mother, I know how hurt you are but you are causing her the same level of hurt to make your point, its a carbon copy of what your dad is doing to you. Your mother is very probably weakened by your dad at this stage in their lives and she simply cannot change him. I think you will greatly regret it if you cut her out and would advise you instead to open up to her and remain the friends you have always been, try and understand her life. She is living with a man who was violent towards her, who is clearly very manipulative, she may well be trying to get him to contact you, perhaps she is failing, if so what does she do?

The OP is between a rock and a hard place here. Her father is manipulative as well as abusive and is probably using her mother in his campaign against her.

The OP's mother may not be as innocent as she appears to be. She has chosen to be a victim instead of standing up to a man who abused herself and her children over the years. Instead of taking responsibility for her part in this situation it is easier for her to let people think "there's a pair of them in it" when it comes to her husband and her daughter.

Remember the OP was in hospital and her father didn't even bother contacting her. I don't know about the rest of her family but her father doesn't seem to care about anybody but himself.

That is why I advised the OP to cut contact with her family for now. I think she should get counselling and then she can reconsider contacting her family.

Idle Passerby

Hi OP,

You said this is the second time your dad has frozen you out over what he say as you interfering. Granted you did the right thing in intervening when he was being violent towards your mother. How did that blow over? Its a far more serious issue than a flippant accusation over money.

It sounds like your dad has a problem with you calling attention to his bad behaviour. With that in mind, and assuming his bad behaviour is not harmful to anyone, I think your best bet is to stay out of it and let the people involved (ie your brother) fight their own battles in future.

I don't think you should hold it against the rest of your family that they havn't helped you to patch things up with your dad. Dont blame them for his actions. I know you probably feel like you would stick up for them and they aren't sticking up for you, but your dad sounds like a very difficult man to live with. As someone said earlier, they have their own ways of dealing with his behaviour.

I would be the bigger person here. Your dad is being very petty and childish, dont follow his lead. Behave as if you are over it. He wants you to grovel but that would only tell him he can behave the same way again. Send him a birthday card, tell your mum on the phone that you hope dad is well, things like that. Let it be known that you want to be on good terms with him again. If he continues to behave like a child thats his business and his loss.

Starokan

Emme wrote: »

The OP is between a rock and a hard place here. Her father is manipulative as well as abusive and is probably using her mother in his campaign against her.

The OP's mother may not be as innocent as she appears to be. She has chosen to be a victim instead of standing up to a man who abused herself and her children over the years. Instead of taking responsibility for her part in this situation it is easier for her to let people think "there's a pair of them in it" when it comes to her husband and her daughter.

Remember the OP was in hospital and her father didn't even bother contacting her. I don't know about the rest of her family but her father doesn't seem to care about anybody but himself.

That is why I advised the OP to cut contact with her family for now. I think she should get counselling and then she can reconsider contacting her family.

I can see your point on this but personally I would not take that course of action with the mother or siblings, situations are never black and white, cutting contact completely with her family may result in contact never being attained again. Her father has chosen his course of action and is totally wrong in my opinion, the family are not siding with anyone they are staying out of it.

Are they right, not necessarily no, but what can they achieve, its very possible the mother has many times tried to set this to rights but simply cannot, there may very well be nothing she can do so why punish her, its unnecessary and will cause the very same hurt the op is feeling.

Big Bag of Chips

I think that since the OP hasn't posted in this thread since 20th June, that for now it is best if we close it. anonandhurt, if you do return to the thread and would like it reopened, please PM any of the PI Mods who will be happy to open it for you.