Why not starting? Troubleshooting...

edanto

I've been gifted (yahoo!) a '99 1.4 Astra which has been off the road, lying up, for about 2 years.

Had a first look at it today, and whilst it wouldn't start with the key or on a jump, it did start on a tow.

It doesn't turn over at all, when you turn the key firstly the normal dashboard lights come on and on the next turn (where it should turn over), there's just no sound at all, nothing.

I suspect starter motor or maybe something electrical? I'd like to do as much troubleshooting as possible myself, just not really sure what to do next.

Put in a fresh battery, all fluids & filters are grand, and all fuses are fine.

Once started with a tow, it ran fine...... just can't be planning to park at the top of a hill everywhere I go! How might I go about finding out if it's the starter motor or something like a relay?

---

This is the approach I'll be taking tomorrow.... checking corrosion on cables.... not a clue how to check the starter. I'd like to be sure it's the starter before I go about getting a replacement one. Will most likely get a pro to fit it, just looking to keep costs down as much as possible.

Another thing that can cause your car to not turn over are the cables that connect the battery to the starter. This is the thickest cable in your car’s electrical system, and carries the most current. As such, it is also very susceptible to corrosion. If your starter cable becomes corroded, you can clean it fairly easily by removing each end (one end is attached to the battery and the other is attached to the starter) and cleaning the connections with a wire brush. Unfortunately the same fate can befall your ground cables. A corroded or poorly connected ground cable can mean your car won’t turn over either. Clean ground wires and connections in the same manner.
Finally, your car might not turn over if you have a bad starter. Starters sometimes go bad slowly, a little at a time. It may seem that your engine is starting more slowly in the morning. You may be able to actually hear the starter turning slower when you turn the key. Also, there can be a situation where your car fails to start one day, then starts the next seven days, but on the eighth day it fails again. It can be very frustrating, but this is also a sign that you need a new starter on your engine.

Ded_Zebra

If it was me the first thing I would try is hitting the starter motor with a hammer. It sounds very non technical but what can happen is the bendix gets seised. By hitting it they often free out again and will work. More than lightly though once it has been seised it will frequently seise again which means you'll have to hit it again to get it working.
The reason I would try this first is that it is a lot less work than cleaning corroded terminals:)

congo_90

bit dodgey but try get the car driving and if the ignition allows try turn to start the car it may force the starter to unjam DO AT LOW SPEED
Hammer also works. whack it while someone trys turning over. best to reach underneath

wonski

+1 to above posters, hammer was mandatory on one of my cars.

Mech1

Careful now! The hammer days are now gone, Most starters now have fragile ceramics inside.

Find the starter, dont hit it, check power to the skinny lead when key turned to "start".
If you have power, THEN, hit it as you have nothing to lose. If you dont have power on the skinny lead report back here.

wonski

Mech1 wrote: »

Careful now! The hammer days are now gone, Most starters now have fragile ceramics inside.

Find the starter, dont hit it, check power to the skinny lead when key turned to "start".
If you have power, THEN, hit it as you have nothing to lose. If you dont have power on the skinny lead report back here.

It is 99 regd Astra...

Need to be fixed/replaced anyway, but in the meantime it is good to have short-term solution.
What's the story with the power, and what's the skinny lead?

And to sum it up in my case it was wiring, not the starter/bendix itself. Somehow hammer worked anyway. Hammer always works:D

Mech1

wonski wrote: »

It is 99 regd Astra...

Need to be fixed/replaced anyway, but in the meantime it is good to have short-term solution.
What's the story with the power, and what's the skinny lead?

And to sum it up in my case it was wiring, not the starter/bendix itself. Somehow hammer worked anyway. Hammer always works:D

Starter has 2 leads going to it. One thick,(like some of the posters on this forum):D and one i will call "skinny" as a general public term. Power, as in battery voltage should be on the "thick" lead at all times. Trigger feed from switch makes the "skinny" lead live under key start conditions only.

Bulb and wire can make a test light.

edanto

Thanks all - will check power going to starter later tonight when home, and if powered, will try hammer.

edanto

edanto wrote: »

Thanks all - will check power going to starter later tonight when home, and if powered, will try hammer.

Having a bit of trouble finding the wires that lead to the starter motor! Anyone know of a youtube that might show it?

Took off air filter, can see (what I think is) starter motor clearly but no obvious cables going into it.

May be looking at wrong thing!

edanto

Found the starter motor, here's the results.

With key in ignition (not turned) there are 12.5 V between solenoid and battery. Same without key. Am I checking the right wire?

When key turns, solenoid makes click, voltage drops to 3V.

Back to normal with key returned.

Got under car and gave starter motor a few taps with hammer, not too hard. No change.

Something else I was reading said to turn on headlights, and if they stayed bright then the battery is OK. They stay bright. Then it said to turn the key and the headlights should dim if power is going (correctly) to the starter. In my case the headlights go out completely when the key is turned to ignition, and come back on when key returns. Does that help?

Battery is at 12.5V, and is fresh (but second hand - mate's shed).

jimmyw

You are doing ok so far, there should only be power going to the thick cable/terminal thats going from the solenoid into the starter when the ignition is at the start position.When the headlights are dimming, that means that the starter is drawing current so the solenoid linkage may be sticking inside.Power should only be at the thin wire in the start position also.


There will always be power between the thick cable on the solenoid and the battery whether the key is turned or not.

Mech1

First stop is fit a new battery then test again, use the battery thats in your mates car (if you can fit it) not the one thats in his shed.

edanto

I tried the battery from a much newer 1.4l Astra, and same result. No turning over, just a click.

Are we settled on the starter motor being knackered, so?

Assuming I can get a friend that knows what he's doing to help, would the next step be to take the starter motor out and see if it can be repaired/buy one from breaker?

A separate issue has come up - insurance company said they wouldn't cover it because it has no NCT... but I don't want to bring it on road at all (even to garage/NCT) until it is insured... so how do you solve that riddle?!

Mech1

If your friend knows what he's doing, he will diagnose in 2 min, he will be much better informed than us after 2 min at the car.

Mech1

Its important where the "click" is coming from, try to find out if its the starter, or in the cabin, or somewhere else under the bonnet.

edanto

It's from the solenoid. When I had the arm of the phase tester held against the solenoid to measure the voltage, I could feel the slight click as well as hear that it was coming from it.

Mech1

ok get the starter out of it so.