Empty marriage

LegacyUser

My wife of 15 years doesn't give a flying you know what about me, never has tbh. I realised several years ago that all she wanted was:
- to get married (didn't matter who)
- wanted lots of kids
- wanted to be supported financially

She got all of the above, and a hell of a lot more but what did I get? I was just the one to accompany her to social functions where she would then feck off and leave me standing for the evening while she flirted. However if she saw me talking to another woman, she'd freak. She wanted kids but that was the only time she wanted me physically, in other words, I was a walking sperm bank and when she got pregnant, if was feck off me until next time she felt broody. No exaggeration, but we've only had sex about 20 times in the whole marriage. As for money, I also double up as her own private ATM. She works, gets the children's allowance and it all goes into her account for her. I pay the mortgage, the bills etc and am flat broke while she goes away for the weekend once a month and on holiday a couple of times a year with her sisters.

"Leave her" I'm sure you'll say but I adore my kids and can't imagine life without them. They are the only source of love in my life and I look after them, play with them and talk to them far, far more than the selfish, self centred cow they have for a mother. However I'm so bloody lonely and desperate for some human affection. I spend my nights thinking about old girlfriends and the times we had. Jeez, why did I marry this cold fish? Come to think of it, I knew I was making a mistake and wanted to call the wedding off but she broke down and begged me to marry her saying she'd change. Gob****e me believed this but the sex tap was turned firmly off after our wedding until she decided she wanted a baby. Unfortunately for me, I tended to get her pregnant pretty much straight away so there was no long period of trying for a baby.

Part of me screams leave her but I'm afraid of starting over at my age, mid 40's tbh. I can't stand her, the sight of her, the sound of her voice and I'm not attracted to her physically either anymore but and this is stupid I know, I'd hate to leave and then she'd move another man into the house I bought and have paid the mortgage on, while he acts as another "daddy" to my kids. She's the type who needs a man around for the bills, odd jobs, security etc.

I know this is a meandering rant but I've put up with her for years with no love, affection or sex and its driving me mad at this stage. I've only got one life and I've wasted so much of it hoping she'd change, which I now know she won't.

And for the record, I've never abused her, hit her or been unfaithful. In fact I don't know what the hell I've done to deserve this.

Virgil°

What is with the amount of these threads recently?

You've got two options OP.
1 Extricate yourself from this awful wagon and give yourself a fighting chance at some happiness.
2 Spend the rest of your life miserable.

I know which I would chose. You should still be able to see your children. They won't thank you in later life for playing the martyr and sacrificing your happiness to stay in a loveless marriage. In addition to this they could potentially learn that a normal marriage entails the torture youve allowed yourself be put through. Not a good life lesson.
Youre in your forties OP not 70's you've a lot of life ahead of you yet and the dating scene for 30's and 40's men is actually pretty great. Or so says my uncle anyway. He got remarried at 48 and couldn't be happier apparently.

fupduck

I would agree with Virgil, bringing up kids in a loveless marriage can do them no favours. Separated, happier parents are far more healthy for them to be around. You may even find that you and her get on better if you separate.
And don't assume that your wife is feeling any different to the way you are, because I cant see how EITHER of you can be happy in this situation, maybe she sees's her trips as 'escaping' rather than living the life of Reilly?
A good friend of mine is always off out and about, seems like she is having a ball, but the truth is, she would be anywhere rather than in her own home, with a partner that doesn't care for her.

LegacyUser

>> What's up with all these threads lately.

I am in OP in a similar veined discusssion/thread.
What is going on here is that men (or women) trapped in loveless marriages see the bravery of one or a small number of people to air something which is otherwise taboo on these forums. It opens a minor floodgate.

There is bound to be a small amount of exaggeration or even understating of the issues but I thoroughly believe these relationships exist and I know first hand that spouses of one gender or another can be very controlling and selfish and not honour the spirit of their marital agreement.

OP - This sounds very selfish of your wife if all is as you describe.
I've been there but my own wife is the breadwinner and very career oriented which marks it out as different to your situation.
So, in my case I could leave but I would create a childcare crisis and more of a logistical than serious financial burden by leaving.
Also - I would find it hard to leave my children.

There seems to be no love in your situation.
If - by magic your wife suddenly conceded that she had made things difficult for you and she wanted to take the steps to reintroduce some passion into the marriage would you give it a go.
If the answer to this is no then it maybe time to face hard facts and bring everything to a close within this relationship.
However, it is really your choice.

Emme

OP, you sound miserable and your children probably pick this up. I'm sure they don't like seeing their dad unhappy. If they saw less of you and you were happier it might be better.

At the moment your choices are as follows:

1) Stay in the miserable marriage and get more miserable
2) Stay in the miserable marriage, have affairs and make yourself and your lovers miserable
3) Leave your wife and give yourself another chance at happiness

If you decide to leave you should get legal advice about staying in the family home for the duration of the separation etc. From what you say as it is you're practically living separate lives anyway.

As regards your wife finding another man, I wouldn't be so sure she'd find it all that easy. She certainly wouldn't want you to leave but if what you say is true she has been incredibly selfish during your marriage. If she were single again she would get a rude awakening. Men who are happy to flirt with a woman who's in a relationship will often avoid a single or separated woman like the plague. Perhaps your wife knows this and has decided to stay married because she knows it's a far better deal for her.

Believe me, if the two of you separate you would fare far better than her in the dating scene. Your attitude now would do you no favours, but your bitterness probably stems from feeling trapped. If you felt more free and more positive you would have no problem finding someone else if that's what you wanted. However, many separated and divorced men of your age prefer to enjoy the dating scene because they don't want to get tied down in a negative situation again.

You only have one life, and your children deserve to see you happy.

Podgers

My parents marriage was very similar, and a loveless marriage, it is something picked up, but not directly My Father stayed with my mother mainly because of us. to us it was normal because i didn't know any different.

When i started dating i ended up in a long, unhealthy relationship very similar to my parents and yours. A very idealistic view on live .ie Must get married by the time im X must have kids before im X etc. being a partner you're just there for support and to make live easy. My father could see it and when my relationship ended, it was tough but got better. My father opened up and told me of what he put up with just because he didn't want to leave us. I found this very upsetting and felt sorry for him.

Theres a book i would recommend you to read, its called "No more mr Nice Guy" it doesn't mean you're going to become evil or nasty but it helps you to get control of your life within the relationship. it will either break it or make it, either or whatever is to be is to be. Your wife does seem like an awful wagon but if you don't do something about it you will always get what you always got, things will not change.

If you do decide to end the relationship your kids will understand the situation when they are older, you come across as a very good father they will support you. if you stay you will build up a lot more resentment towards your wife and this is unhealthy for you.

Life is short and you only get one go of it, but many times to change it. as Emme has pointed it your options are to continue and live your life being miserable or change it to make something out of it that makes you happy.

The Corinthian

Need a life wrote: »

Part of me screams leave her but I'm afraid of starting over at my age, mid 40's tbh. I can't stand her, the sight of her, the sound of her voice and I'm not attracted to her physically either anymore but and this is stupid I know, I'd hate to leave and then she'd move another man into the house I bought and have paid the mortgage on, while he acts as another "daddy" to my kids. She's the type who needs a man around for the bills, odd jobs, security etc.

Oh don't worry about the bills, you'll still be paying them, regardless of if she brings another man in the house or not.

I've noticed there's a frightening number of threads, with mainly men, in your situation here nowadays. As others have said, you're faced with a Hob's son's choice - stay or leave - and neither is attractive.

I too would tend twoards the 'leave' option if I were you, although you'll almost certainly face years of social, financial and legal abuse from your spouse before being able to return to some semblance of a normal life. However, at least you will have a semblance of a normal life then; if you stay, you never will.

A third, semi option is to stand your ground with her. You're not happy in the marriage and so you stand your ground where it comes to any bullying from her and let her know that the sex situation is not acceptable - if she's so fixed on a 'traditional' marriage where she's a kept woman, remind here that 'traditional' marriages aren't one way - there's a price to her being 'kept'.

If this attempt to assert yourself fails, leave.

Nonetheless I have to ask; why didn't you see this coming before you married? From your description she's always been like this, so it's not as if the signs wouldn't have been there.

It's always fascinated me how some men, and women, might be in sexless marriages, for example, and fully admit that before marriage their spouse to be was already 'not that much into sex', yet somehow it didn't occur to them that sex tends to decrease in long-term relationships, not increase.

Did you not see warning signs to your wife's character prior to making such a commitment? And if so, why did you ignore them?

mid40s wrote: »

I've been there but my own wife is the breadwinner and very career oriented which marks it out as different to your situation.
So, in my case I could leave but I would create a childcare crisis and more of a logistical than serious financial burden by leaving.
Also - I would find it hard to leave my children.

Are you the primary child-carer?

If so, it really does underline how fùcked-up Irish family law is, that even as primary child-carer, you would expect not to be awarded custody on the basis of your gender.

Babooshka

Need a life wrote: »

Come to think of it, I knew I was making a mistake and wanted to call the wedding off but she broke down and begged me to marry her saying she'd change. Gob****e me believed this but the sex tap was turned firmly off after our wedding until she decided she wanted a baby. Unfortunately for me, I tended to get her pregnant pretty much straight away so there was no long period of trying for a baby.

Part of me screams leave her but I'm afraid of starting over at my age, mid 40's tbh. I can't stand her, the sight of her, the sound of her voice and I'm not attracted to her physically either anymore but and this is stupid I know, I'd hate to leave and then she'd move another man into the house I bought and have paid the mortgage on, while he acts as another "daddy" to my kids. She's the type who needs a man around for the bills, odd jobs, security etc.

QUOTE]

I feel sorry for both of you but mostly her in this scenario. You sound like you weren't able to stand up for your feelings from the get go and now you're bitter and angry with yourself for not doing what your instincts told you from the start. For all the things your wife may be, you lied to yourself from very early on in your relationship, as in, just before your wedding. You need to take responsibility for that and focus on how you can now make a better life for you and the children you've sired.

Counselling may do you some good before you leave, if that's what you decide. It's never too late, mid forties is not old. You need to remember that you do have some power over making this better for all involved including yur children. They won't thank you for them having a twisted and bitter, bad tempered father in the future, because you will become that if you haven't already done so, and it will get only worse if you don't do something now, not just rant on the internet about it, act for a better future. If she does move another man in, it will be her business to do that, you've made it quite clear you don't want her. You can't have it every way. You have a chance of feeling like a better person if you do what's right for you, and make it known to your children that you're splitting up not because of them and that you are still there for them. It happens every day and they will survive. It will be hard yes, but in the long term it will work out for the best. Staying there to recieve affection from your children is the wrong option, you need to act for the long term not just to have some short term comfort from those you should be acting to protect for the future. I'm sure it's very hard to do it because you're scared but for God's sake, think ahead and multiply how you feel now by about a million, that's how bad it will be in ten years time and you'll be mid 50's....act now.

December2012

Would you go to speak to a relationship counsellor?

StillWaters

You mentioned she wanted 'lots of kids' and she got them. So you carried on creating children when you knew the marriage was not a good one. You voice a lot of vitriol towards your wife, but really, her behaviour hasn't changed in all the years you have been married.

And being pragmatic and realistic, separating will be a huge financial burden to you. If you think you are broke now, wait til you have to pay all those bills and pay for your own place out of it. With 'lots of kids', I think you need to try everything to save this marriage, for everyones sake.

Little Acorn

Why does it always seem to be the case that in a divorce the man has to leave, and the woman gets to keep the house, majority custody of kids, and the man keeps paying mortgage for a house he is not allowed live in?

I know it is probably something to do with law, or that they just want their kids to stay in the house.
I dunno, it just seems to be the same story though 99.9% of the time and just seems incredibly unfair to me in SOME scenarios, for example the one the op described .

Is there such a thing as 50/50 custody?
Is there any way that you could stay in the house with the children, and that she would have to be the one to fcuk of to some flat and pay mortgage payments to you for once?

If these options are at all viable I would definitely advise you to leave.
It will obviously be a lot harder if these options are not possible, but at least you might still be happier eventually once you don't have to live with her anymore.
Best of Luck.

LegacyUser

Guys, I appreciate all the comments and opinions. For the record, I gave my wife everything she ever wanted, big house, bought her cars, sent her on holidays with her sisters, and of course, gave her the babies she desperately wanted. Not that I wanted eternal gratitude, but I just wanted to make her happy. Thing is, nothing I did was ever good enough, appreciated or reciprocated even in the smallest way.

Yes I'm scared of having my life turned upside down and starting over now keeps me awake at night. I had it all in my 20's, house, car and good job and losing it all now, cause that's what will happen under Ireland's male unfriendly separation culture, will drive me into despair. If she just left, I'd gladly raise my kids on my own, pay the mortgage, bills etc. I'd have no social life but my kids are and always will be my primary focus. She won't leave though as she's materialisticly minded and she won't walk away from what we've got (house etc).

I've tried talking to her but she won't even look at me. She walks away each time and starts singing to drown out my voice. Sometimes I wonder if she is psychologically unbalanced as she just won't engage on an adult level. I've asked her to go to mediation but she refuses saying she will engage a solicitor. So it looks like she wants to hammer me in a courtroom.

Finally we did go to counselling years ago but it was all one sided, ie her viewpoint. Even the counsellor sided with her saying that she doesn't have sex with her husband and they sleep in separate rooms. This was music to my wife's ears.

Finally, finally, I am a good guy. Everyone who knows me likes me as I'm decent, honourable, reliable and have a great sense of humour. My kids love me and rugby tackle me at the door when I come home from work. I can't go anywhere without them wanting to come with me. If I was a bad person, wouldn't someone have picked up on this by now?? As for my wife, she has no friends apart from her sisters. She is ultra secretive and tells no one nothing about herself.

Sorry for the ramble but I've tried to move this train wreck along and all I get from her are silences or veiled threats.

Merkin

Have you spoken to a solicitor about this?

The Corinthian

Need a life wrote: »

Guys, I appreciate all the comments and opinions. For the record, I gave my wife everything she ever wanted, big house, bought her cars, sent her on holidays with her sisters, and of course, gave her the babies she desperately wanted. Not that I wanted eternal gratitude, but I just wanted to make her happy. Thing is, nothing I did was ever good enough, appreciated or reciprocated even in the smallest way.

I appreciate your situation, but at this stage you're really just venting; which is fine, as long as that's all you want to do, but if not venting isn't going to help.

TBH, I think you need to accept responsibility for the situation you're in. You knew what she was like before you married. You gave her what she wanted for years without doing anything to deal with your marital issues; effectively every child you 'gave' her dug the hole you're in a little deeper and you clearly have admitted that you realized this along the way.

You're unhappy and this relationship is killing you by inches - probably has been from the start. Of course, this might be your thing; I've known men and women who would be miserable if they couldn't define themselves by the unhappy relationships they're 'trapped' in.

Leaving her is going to be a nightmare, but so will staying with her and there's no guarantee that she won't leave you down the road. At this stage, you've made it clear that she's not interested in compromise and there is little or no hope of things getting better. So frankly, it's probably time you bite the bullet - see a solicitor, begin to make plans to leave and get all your legal and financial ducks in a row. And then do so.

Or you can wallow in self pity. Up to you.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but sometimes a bucket of cold water is better than the alternative.

Finally we did go to counselling years ago but it was all one sided, ie her viewpoint. Even the counsellor sided with her saying that she doesn't have sex with her husband and they sleep in separate rooms. This was music to my wife's ears.

And that's the point where I would have gotten up from my seat, complained to the counselling service and asked for a different councillor who actually understands what a normal relationship is, rather than some nut case who's clearly unqualified and believes that one party in that relationship remaining miserable is acceptable.

daisybelle2008

Need a life wrote: »

If I was a bad person, wouldn't someone have picked up on this by now?? As for my wife, she has no friends apart from her sisters. She is ultra secretive and tells no one nothing about herself.

Sorry for the ramble but I've tried to move this train wreck along and all I get from her are silences or veiled threats.

OP, the reason your separation would be so difficult because you actively dislike and resent your wife so much. In every single post you are drawing battle lines and trying to paint her as the enemy and yourself as the martyred victim.
People separate amicably all the time, even with kids. However the level of disdain, resentment and victim mentality you have is going to ensure it will get nasty. From what I can see you are every bit as materialistic as she is. Neither will give an inch. You committed too, had kids and got as deeply into it as is humanly possible, with someone the dogs in the street could see you are incompatible with. Of course it won't be a smooth easy separation. But that's not the courts/family laws fault, they will have the dirty job of cleaning up the mess you got yourself into.
You really need to stop seeing yourself as a victim and your wife as the ememy BEFORE you separate. You are only dragging the adversary and dysfunction into that.

The Corinthian

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

You really need to stop seeing yourself as a victim and your wife as the ememy BEFORE you separate. You are only dragging the adversary and dysfunction into that.

He certainly is seeing himself as a martyred victim and is undoubtedly responsible for having gotten himself and remained in this dysfunctional relationship, but I wouldn't be so quick to give his wife the benefit of the doubt either.

If even half of how he's described her is true, then it's a pretty safe bet that even if he does not treat her as an enemy, she will treat him as such and going in with the hope of an amicable separation will end up a disaster for him.

That's not to say he should 'declare war', but he should be ready for war to be declared upon him the moment his intentions are announced.

burgermasters

Give yourself a fighting chance at being happy, your children will be happier once you are happy ye know? You seem like a really nice guy and to be honest and happy daddy is the perfect daddy.

Best of luck with it though, I feel for you.

Lawliet

Need a life wrote: »

Finally we did go to counselling years ago but it was all one sided, ie her viewpoint. Even the counsellor sided with her saying that she doesn't have sex with her husband and they sleep in separate rooms. This was music to my wife's ears.

That's the one point I would agree with the counsellor on, marriage is not a license to have sex with a women when she doesn't want to. Her not wanting to have sex doesn't make her a horrible person, the reasons behind her not wanting to sleep with you are the problem.

Ignoring all other aspects of the relationship here, I find it really disturbing how some people have this attitude that marriage entitles a man to use his wife for sex when she isn't into it. Coercing someone into having sex with you -as one person implied- is rape, and making a women a villain because she doesn't put out whenever is rape culture.

The lack of sex is just a symptom of the major problems here. She married for lifestyle she could have and probably was never attracted to you to begin with. There's no point in trying to force her to be the ideal women, even if she played the role you'd still be in an empty marriage.

daisybelle2008

The Corinthian wrote: »

He certainly is seeing himself as a martyred victim and is undoubtedly responsible for having gotten himself and remained in this dysfunctional relationship, but I wouldn't be so quick to give his wife the benefit of the doubt either.

If even half of how he's described her is true, then it's a pretty safe bet that even if he does not treat her as an enemy, she will treat him as such and going in with the hope of an amicable separation will end up a disaster for him.

That's not to say he should 'declare war', but he should be ready for war to be declared upon him the moment his intentions are announced.

Im giving neither the benefit of the doubt, rather keeping an open mind, we are getting one side of the story, and that from a very embittered person. I have no doubt we would get an equally messy story from the wife. I am not deciding who is more wrong or right based on that. It looks like a horrible relationship for both of them! neither seem to like or respect each other. they dragged kids into it, so for their benefit getting an amicable flow going rather than 'preparing' for some kind of nasty tit-for-tat battle would serve things better.
The OP is more afraid of who will look good or bad and who'll get what, than actually wanting to resolve a dysfunctional scenario as best as possible. I think if he put as much effort into smoothing relations over (I'm not saying that is easy) as he does throwing his hands in the air and cutting the woman to pieces and feeling sorry for himself, it might improve the possibility of an amicable split.

The Corinthian

Lawliet wrote: »

That's the one point I would agree with the counsellor on, marriage is not a license to have sex with a women when she doesn't want to.

You might want to show us where anyone, including the OP, has suggested that here. Pretty much everyone has suggested them working it out and dealing with this issue, or that he should leave if he cannot. No one has said that he should in any way coerce or force her to have sex.

And if what he wrote in his first post, that she is jealous of him even talking to other women, is true, then she is effectively forcing him to be celibate when he doesn't want to - and that would make her a horrible person. It's also unfair to suggest that the reason that she doesn't want to have sex is somehow his fault, as you have.

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

they dragged kids into it, so for their benefit getting an amicable flow going rather than 'preparing' for some kind of nasty tit-for-tat battle would serve things better.

Absolutely, but it's not entirely up to him if it becomes some kind of nasty tit-for-tat battle, so he's as well off to prepare for one, just in case. My gut feeling is that this story is not going to have a happy ending, I'm afraid.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

daisybelle2008

The Corinthian wrote: »

Absolutely, but it's not entirely up to him if it becomes some kind of nasty tit-for-tat battle, so he's as well off to prepare for one, just in case. My gut feeling is that this story is not going to have a happy ending,

.

Yeah, that's true....what fairy tales starts off.. I married a 'selfish cow I can't stand' on the basis she would change...15 years later she hasn't changed :rolleyes:
It is a cautionary tale for a lot of RI issues which seem to stem from staying long past the sell by date with people on the basis they will 'change'. I never really understand that. I mean if you love them, why do you need them to change into someone different? Why not find the someone different that you don't have to 'change' I think it is sometimes an excuse to overlook incompatibility for not having the balls to be alone . OP said in his opening post he is 'afraid of starting over'.

The Corinthian

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Yeah, that's true....what fairy tales starts off.. I married a 'selfish cow I can't stand' on the basis she would change...15 years later she hasn't changed :rolleyes:
It is a cautionary tale for a lot of RI issues which seem to stem from staying long past the sell by date with people on the basis they will 'change'. I never really understand that. I mean if you love them, why do you need them to change into someone different? Why not find the someone different that you don't have to 'change' I think it is sometimes an excuse to overlook incompatibility for not having the balls to be alone . OP said in his opening post he is 'afraid of starting over'.

I think everyone would ideally want to 'change' things about the person they're with simply because in the real World, the person they're with isn't going to be perfect - some day my other half may stop my snoring. Or lose her hearing.

Having said this, and as I asked the OP in my first response, this was a major issue that was evident from the start of the relationship, even before they married. I've seen people like this marry and it's beyond me how they can't see it; it's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Zen65

Originally Posted by Lawliet
That's the one point I would agree with the counsellor on, marriage is not a license to have sex with a women when she doesn't want to.

The Corinthian wrote: »

You might want to show us where anyone, including the OP, has suggested that here.

I think the poster was responding to the ambiguity in this post:

The Corinthian wrote: »

You're not happy in the marriage and so you stand your ground where it comes to any bullying from her and let her know that the sex situation is not acceptable - if she's so fixed on a 'traditional' marriage where she's a kept woman, remind here that 'traditional' marriages aren't one way - there's a price to her being 'kept'.

I think the OP is looking for a solution to the problem where he feels trapped in a loveless but monogamous relationship, without affecting his relationship with his children. It's clear from all the posts here (and even the post above, while potentially ambiguous) that there is a need for reconciliation if the marriage is to work, at least in the traditional sense.

That opens up another potential option, albeit a strange one, to be non-tradional. Since OP's wife clearly does not want him, and he no longer wants her, but dissolving the marriage seems to be disagreeable to them both (based on OP's description of her jealousy when he talks to other women) I wonder if they could agree to come to an arrangement whereby he no longer remains monogamous. OP's wife has chosen to abandon the relationship in every normal meaning of it, including the need to openly discuss the relationship, but she continues to draw down certain benefits. Could she not be persuaded to continue to draw down those benefits while OP himself was given permission to enter into other relationships, outside of the marriage? Obviously that poses huge risks to his relationship with his kids, but at least the risk is something he could manage himself.

I know this is not a nice option. No sane couple would agree to it if there was any hope of salvaging their own relationship. OP thinks this is already the case.

While I agree whole-heartedly with Lawliet's comment that any kind of coercion to have sex within a marriage is wrong, I also hold the view that coercion to be monogamous to a partner who has lost interest, for whatever reason, is also wrong.

Be at peace,

Z

daisybelle2008

The Corinthian wrote: »

You're unhappy and this relationship is killing you by inches - probably has been from the start. Of course, this might be your thing; I've known men and women who would be miserable if they couldn't define themselves by the unhappy relationships they're 'trapped'

.

I think this could be the crux of the matter. The OP kind of blames the wife for both being in the situation (she 'trapped' him) and being unable to leave (she'll screw him over)....maybe he doesn't actually want to leave as long as he can blame someone else. They say there are no victims only volunteers, in this case I think there is some truth. To be fair children in the mix makes it harder take action. But again that is probably less accidental than incidental to tying themselves together.

The other posters recommendation to discuss an open relationship might throw open another option. At least it might get a dialogue going, would have to be handled tactfully. But maybe she would welcome the idea who knows.

Zen65

Need a life wrote: »

For the record, I gave my wife everything she ever wanted, big house, bought her cars, sent her on holidays with her sisters, and of course, gave her the babies she desperately wanted. Not that I wanted eternal gratitude, but I just wanted to make her happy.

I just wanted to highlight this OP, for the purpose of getting you to stop painting yourself as the innocent victim in your own head. You didn't do all those things just to make her happy, you did them because you saw them as things you could do in exchange for affection. While I do empathise with your position, you really have painted yourself to be very materialistic in your own posts, and occasionally it seems to me that you are looking at the relationship as a barter, rather than as a space where two people share themselves.

I did not find anything in your posts that showed an exchange of love from you, but that may simply be because at this stage you don't feel that anymore.

Need a life wrote: »

If I was a bad person, wouldn't someone have picked up on this by now??

Hell no, that's a facile argument. Joseph Fritzel* was highly regarded by all his family, except that one daughter. In your marriage relationship, only the participants can judge whether you've been decent, certainly we cannot, and I venture that it would be hard for anyone that did not live through those years with you to come to any conclusion in that regard.

Z


*Sincere apologies if this comparison offends you or any other reader - my intention was not to get a cheap laugh but rather to highlight the absurdity of thinking that you must be a good husband because nobody else has called you on it!

The Corinthian

Zen65 wrote: »

I think the poster was responding to the ambiguity in this post:

That was more to do with those who use 'tradition' to justify themselves, but forget that there's a down side to 'tradition' too. I certainly wasn't agreeing with such a system.

I wonder if they could agree to come to an arrangement whereby he no longer remains monogamous.

If what he says about his wife's jealousy in his first post is true, I don't think it's a runner - it would point to more of a 'dog in the manger' scenario.

While I agree whole-heartedly with Lawliet's comment that any kind of coercion to have sex within a marriage is wrong, I also hold the view that coercion to be monogamous to a partner who has lost interest, for whatever reason, is also wrong.

Very true.

Lawliet

The Corinthian wrote: »

You might want to show us where anyone, including the OP, has suggested that here. Pretty much everyone has suggested them working it out and dealing with this issue, or that he should leave if he cannot. No one has said that he should in any way coerce or force her to have sex.

You yourself said "A third, semi option is to stand your ground with her. You're not happy in the marriage and so you stand your ground where it comes to any bullying from her and let her know that the sex situation is not acceptable - if she's so fixed on a 'traditional' marriage where she's a kept woman, remind here that 'traditional' marriages aren't one way - there's a price to her being 'kept'."
That looks like you're encouraging him to threaten her with the removal of her current lifestyle so she'll sleep him, i.e. coercing her into having sex. Honestly I am genuinely a bit disturbed by that advice.

ShaShaBear

Lawliet wrote: »

You yourself said "A third, semi option is to stand your ground with her. You're not happy in the marriage and so you stand your ground where it comes to any bullying from her and let her know that the sex situation is not acceptable - if she's so fixed on a 'traditional' marriage where she's a kept woman, remind here that 'traditional' marriages aren't one way - there's a price to her being 'kept'."
That looks like you're encouraging him to threaten her with the removal of her current lifestyle so she'll sleep him, i.e. coercing her into having sex. Honestly I am genuinely a bit disturbed by that advice.

It sounds more to me like they are suggesting that the OP have a retort if she insists on a "traditional" marriage of being a kept housewife while OP makes money and pays the bills, that there are a lot more aspects to a "traditional" marriage that she is conveniently forgetting to apply.

Sort of like vegetarians that eat only steak.
Or devout Catholics that have children out of wedlock.

You can't just pick and choose the rules you like and ignore the rest!

However, I don't think a traditional marriage is what the OPs wife is after. Actually, I don't think she's after anything. Without knowing her side of the story, I can only assume she is complacent getting everything she wants, and knows if OP leaves she will continue to get it. But if she stands her ground and remains in the marriage, and he initiates proceedings for separation, she can't be painted in a bad light for leaving such a providing husband and loving father.

clairefontaine

Need a life wrote: »

Guys, I appreciate all the comments and opinions. For the record, I gave my wife everything she ever wanted, big house, bought her cars, sent her on holidays with her sisters, and of course, gave her the babies she desperately wanted. Not that I wanted eternal gratitude, but I just wanted to make her happy. Thing is, nothing I did was ever good enough, appreciated or reciprocated even in the smallest way.

Yes I'm scared of having my life turned upside down and starting over now keeps me awake at night. I had it all in my 20's, house, car and good job and losing it all now, cause that's what will happen under Ireland's male unfriendly separation culture, will drive me into despair. If she just left, I'd gladly raise my kids on my own, pay the mortgage, bills etc. I'd have no social life but my kids are and always will be my primary focus. She won't leave though as she's materialisticly minded and she won't walk away from what we've got (house etc).

I've tried talking to her but she won't even look at me. She walks away each time and starts singing to drown out my voice. Sometimes I wonder if she is psychologically unbalanced as she just won't engage on an adult level. I've asked her to go to mediation but she refuses saying she will engage a solicitor. So it looks like she wants to hammer me in a courtroom.

Finally we did go to counselling years ago but it was all one sided, ie her viewpoint. Even the counsellor sided with her saying that she doesn't have sex with her husband and they sleep in separate rooms. This was music to my wife's ears.

Finally, finally, I am a good guy. Everyone who knows me likes me as I'm decent, honourable, reliable and have a great sense of humour. My kids love me and rugby tackle me at the door when I come home from work. I can't go anywhere without them wanting to come with me. If I was a bad person, wouldn't someone have picked up on this by now?? As for my wife, she has no friends apart from her sisters. She is ultra secretive and tells no one nothing about herself.

Sorry for the ramble but I've tried to move this train wreck along and all I get from her are silences or veiled threats.

I remember a line from a song. "I gave you everything you ever wanted. But it wasn't what you wanted."

It's not really about being a bad or good person. You might be a good provider, but sparks fade, love fades too.

Of course you are scared about an upheaval with a divorce. It's a huge change and you should be scared. It's the most stressful thing someone can go through, followed by bereavement and moving house.

It is a terrible idea to threaten to withold provisions until you get sex. Terrible and will backfire like a cannon made by drunk monkeys.

Think about an open marriage or move on as it seems all other options have been closed to you.

Taltos

Let's keep the discussions out of this please. If anyone has an issue with a post please report it, don't drag the thread off topic by arguing or discussing different topics.

If anyone is unsure what this forum is for please take a few minutes to read our charter. We are a strictly moderated forum due to the nature of the issues here so before posting please ensure your post is inline with our rules.

Thanks
Taltos

Emme

Need a life wrote: »

Guys, I appreciate all the comments and opinions. For the record, I gave my wife everything she ever wanted, big house, bought her cars, sent her on holidays with her sisters, and of course, gave her the babies she desperately wanted. Not that I wanted eternal gratitude, but I just wanted to make her happy. Thing is, nothing I did was ever good enough, appreciated or reciprocated even in the smallest way.

If you leave her she will get a very rude awakening when she goes back to the singles scene. It's no exaggeration that she would be hard pressed to find a man willing to buy her a drink without expecting sex in return.

Need a life wrote: »

Yes I'm scared of having my life turned upside down and starting over now keeps me awake at night. I had it all in my 20's, house, car and good job and losing it all now, cause that's what will happen under Ireland's male unfriendly separation culture, will drive me into despair. If she just left, I'd gladly raise my kids on my own, pay the mortgage, bills etc. I'd have no social life but my kids are and always will be my primary focus. She won't leave though as she's materialisticly minded and she won't walk away from what we've got (house etc).

So why don't you leave? You're going to be paying the bills whether you stay or whether you go. How old are the children?

Need a life wrote: »

I've tried talking to her but she won't even look at me. She walks away each time and starts singing to drown out my voice. Sometimes I wonder if she is psychologically unbalanced as she just won't engage on an adult level. I've asked her to go to mediation but she refuses saying she will engage a solicitor. So it looks like she wants to hammer me in a courtroom.

Finally we did go to counselling years ago but it was all one sided, ie her viewpoint. Even the counsellor sided with her saying that she doesn't have sex with her husband and they sleep in separate rooms. This was music to my wife's ears.

She refuses to engage with you in an adult discussion. You went to marriage counselling and the counsellor told her it was ok not to sleep with her husband. I think the counsellor was talking through his or her hat but effectively it gave your wife carte blanche not to sleep with you.

This isn't an ideal or a typical solution but why don't you say to your wife that if she is happy not to sleep with you then she shouldn't have a problem with opening your marriage so you can sleep with other women. Despite everything don't seem to want to leave so perhaps an open marriage would be a solution for you until all your children are over 18. You would have to be honest with the women you sleep with and of course tell your wife you're going to seek sex outside of the marriage.

I have a feeling she would prefer this arrangement to a separation. She gets to keep the lifestyle with all the material trappings and doesn't lose the status of being a wife. It might not be so good for you but it wouldn't be as bad as now because you would be getting some physical fulfilment.

Your wife would hate a separation because she would lose some of the material trappings and worst of all for her, lose the status of being a wife. She would have to face the dating scene which would be very bleak for her. Not so for you. Good divorced and separated men are in demand and your chances of finding happiness again would be very favourable.

What I'm saying is that a clean break would be the best option for you.

Need a life wrote: »

Finally, finally, I am a good guy. Everyone who knows me likes me as I'm decent, honourable, reliable and have a great sense of humour. My kids love me and rugby tackle me at the door when I come home from work. I can't go anywhere without them wanting to come with me. If I was a bad person, wouldn't someone have picked up on this by now?? As for my wife, she has no friends apart from her sisters. She is ultra secretive and tells no one nothing about herself.

Sorry for the ramble but I've tried to move this train wreck along and all I get from her are silences or veiled threats.

I get the impression you are afraid of your wife and she is walking all over you. If you are as good a man as you say you are and have the courage to leave the current situation you WILL find happiness.

LegacyUser

I've been doing a lot of reflecting on the replies, wondering if I am too inward looking, if I am a "martyr", if I am a coward etc etc.

The one I would agree with is yes, I am a coward, or at best I'm afraid. I'm afraid of not seeing my kids, I'm afraid of my wife, I'm afraid of ending up in dingy rented accommodation after working so hard to provide for my family and myself. Am I the bad one in the relationship? Well my kids never want to be with their mother whereas they practically follow me to the loo. My eldest girl has no respect for her mother and all my kids constantly ask me "why mammy is so mean to you?" Do I encourage this? No, in fact I tell them that she is their mother, and not to bad mouth her.

As for the sex, no I do not, never have, and never will demand sex from her. Sex in my opinion should be mutual, with each partner wanting each other, not only physically but emotionally too. In our case, it was always about pleasing her and once she was satisfied, it was a case of hurry up and get it over with. I can never remember her wanting to please me, engage in "spontaneous" sex, ie not all sex should be in the dark, lights off, under the covers with her putting her pyjamas back on as soon as the act was done. Hell she was never comfortable being naked around me and she got dressed and undressed behind a locked door. As for me having an affair, while I'm not a strict Catholic or anything (atheist if anything), I'm not into casual sex with practical strangers. I'd prefer to get to know a woman , be friends, have something in common long before I'd have sex with her. Don't get me wrong, I think the female form is a thing of beauty but I don't see women as just "things to have sex with".

I have asked my wife to go to the family mediation service to try to end this mess in as amicable way as possible but she won't engage. I do not want to go down the judicial separation route as that will be drawn out and antagonising to us both, not to mention would cripple us financially for life. However, I will persist with trying to end this relationship as painlessly as possible (and I use that phrase loosely) and try to move on with my life, hopefully with my children playing a large part in it.

As for my wife, all I'm bitter about is that she couldn't, or wouldn't or perhaps is incapable of returning me love. In her family, marriage was about being financially secure, not being happy as far as I could see. Her parents didn't get along, her sisters are separated, her brother has had an affair etc. yes I knew this before we got married, yes I tried to call it off but relented when she broke down. Yes that was a mistake but I've got the best kids in the world now that I wouldn't have had if I never married her. Yes I have my good days and I have my bad days but I think I see myself getting out of this mess at last. I know it's going to be damn painful, I know I'll probably see much less of my kids, I know I'll end up doing the unmanly thing of crying a lot but if I'm honest with myself (and I wasn't for many, many years), it can't be any worse than living like this.

daisybelle2008

Need a life wrote: »

As for my wife, all I'm bitter about is that she couldn't, or wouldn't or perhaps is incapable of returning me love.

OP are you for real? 'Return Love'??? You call your wife a 'self centred cow' who you can't stand the sight of, you tell us you KNEW it was a mistake and you did not want to marry her :eek:. That is not 'love'.
I have no idea how you can be so blind.
Every post is an absolute litany of nastiness about her but you never draw up too short emphasising what a good guy you are :rolleyes:
The tit for tat inventory is crazy and is nothing to do with shared partnership and love.
You tell us you 'gave' her the babies she desperately wanted (against your better judgment I assume like the marriage) and you want to know what did you 'get' in return.
OP, if you cannot see how you are representing yourself as the martyred victim , please try reading your posts a few more times.
The blind hatred you have for your wife may be preventing you.
Now I am not saying one party is right or wrong. We have one side. But you have never taken responsibility for your marriage or life. You seem to be happy at some level to allow the situation and point the blame at her for you being there (she trapped you into marriage and kids) and for not leaving (she'll make it messy). And for what it's worth I don't believe you are accurately representing the financial situation either. Your wife works. You are exaggerating for maximum effect how put upon you will be. This is more victim mentality. You are carrying the EXACT same mindset you had the day you decided to marry someone you did not want to. That is your problem. It is not going to get better until you change your mindset and stop making decisions out of FEAR not instinct.

daisybelle2008

I meant to say on a practical level, start counselling yourself. If by some circumstances you do separate, it might help prevent you being the guy who is constantly bitching about how your ex screwed you over. Other women will find it a turnoff.
You seem to be on auto pilot with the 'poor me that bitch screwed me over and ruined my life' mentality. So much that YOU can't even see it. In the dating world that will be a no no.
Personally it rings huge alarm bells in my head if a guy is particularly nasty about his exes.
To be honest I would see someone who spent 15 years in a bad relationship with someone they disliked so much as not well adjusted or self aware.

daisybelle2008

sunflower27 wrote: »

Personally, I have said some terribly nasty things about exes and I have no qualms about it. I was honest. They were (probably still are) abusing leeches.

Some people are downright toxic. Why not call it what it is?

I think also staying in a bad marriage for the sake of children is not that uncommon. Especially if the father fears for the children's safety. I myself know of one incident where this is happening.

I am not saying it is the right thing to do - in fact I think it is totally the wrong thing to stay in an unhappy marriage - but many people do feel that marriage means commitment at least until the children are grown up.

It would have been easy for the OP to go off and have one-night-stands, up and leave, but he didn't. he hung in there,possibly hoping things would change.

Bottom line is enough time has passed to know that this situation is not going to improve. It is fairly obvious what the OP should do, but I don't think it is fair to slate him for bad-mouthing his wife if he feels justified. As said, some people really are toxic. Any adult that belittles their partner in front of their children is a toxic bully.

Sunflower if you have a problem with my post please report it. My intention is not to 'slate' anyone, rather give advice on the behaviour that I think is causing the problem. Ultimately I think the OP would benefit greatly from counselling one to one and would empower his choices and clear his head going forward.

daisybelle2008

sunflower27 wrote: »

I read that as a slating, personally. Saying the OP is blind, the sarcastic :rolleyes:
But that is just my opinion.

Blind to the situation, I.e blinkered. The eye roll was due to the going around in circles of criticising her and defending himself. I do not understand why it is necessary to be so vitriolic towards her, I don't think that is going to help so I am against indulging it or justifying especially as we don't even know the woman from Adam! Other posters have mentioned this just becomes his 'anti-wife' blog and he does nothing about his situation. I have said many times I'm not taking one side of the story and running with it as fact. I'm trying to get the him to understand he has a choice, if he hates his wife so much. I do get to the point where I want to stop hearing one party shred the other to pieces behind their back. After all as judge judy would say, what do you want me (the court) to do about it? You picked her!!

LegacyUser

Sunflower, thanks for the support. Daisy, while I'm not perfect, I have worked damn hard at trying to make this marriage work. However, my wife just doesn't give a damn about me as a person, e.g., I was in a car crash six years ago and she never even visited me in the hospital as she was "too busy with work and the kids", I had food poisoning last year where my I lost five kilos in body weight in the space of a few days and she wouldn't even get me a glass of water, my father died last year and I cried while giving the eulogy and she thought this was funny. Do you have an idea of what she's like now??

As for counselling, I did go to see a therapist two years ago to see why I was always feeling so damn down and miserable and you know what she said after ten sessions and several psychotherapy questions sheets that i had to write my answers down to various situations and scenarios, in her professional opinion, the only thing psychologically wrong with me was that I was in an unhappy marriage.

Since I posted this morning, I sat down with my wife and spoke to her calmly, even though she refuses to look at me. I asked her if she had any thoughts about going to mediation which she responded y saying she was too busy at the moment but "she'd get round to it". She then said that I was to take my holidays next month to mind the kids and she would then go on part time work in September. I said "hang on a minute. I have been paying the mortgage and all the bills for years which is going to stop now. As you will be paying half of everything from now on, how can you pay half while on half salary?". In addition I said, "as one of us will be moving out, there will be further out goings on renting another place".

None of this seems to occur to her or maybe it does but she wants to work part time, while I continue to pay for everything plus pay for somewhere else to live.

Finally Daisy, yes perhaps I'm feeling sorry for myself, but if you were in my shoes, you'd be asking yourself what had you done so wrong for your wife to hate you? Maybe if I had gone and had an affair, then she could have reason to hate me. She's gone away again for the weekend leaving me with the kids. That's three out of the last four weekends. Oh for a happy family life where we could all go off for a picnic or to the beach. Yeah I'll stop dreaming.

Dinxminx

OP, you sound just like my father.

I'm not sure how helpful this will be but, as children, my brother and I adored my father; he was the fun, affectionate parent who had all the time in the world for us while my mother was not maternal, had no concept of barriers, would badmouth my father if they'd had an argument and would compare us constantly... She had no sense of humour and no friends and didn't work and my father provided for all of us. Anyway. We were alternately frightened of her or angry with her and my father, the relaxed good guy that he is, was the complete opposite. And we loved him for it.

Of course then we grew up and realised that the world isn't black and white. That it was easy for my father to be the good guy, because she was not really fit to cope with us at all and next to her he looked like an angel. And that suited him fine.

Now, both in our twenties, there's been a huge familial shift in relations. Since our teens, our relationship with our father has become extremely fractured, while our relationship with our mother has improved as we've learned her limits and understand her better. My mother has a personality disorder, and a probable eating disorder. She has had these all her life. I found a diary from when my parents were dating - my father wrote about being stood up regularly without warning or apology or explanation. And yet he married her. No alarm bells ever rang loud enough for my father to DO something. Even when he would come home to us in tears in our rooms, and he would be the one to comfort us, he never thought of getting her treated. And when we grew old enough to confront him and ask him why he never had, he was shocked and hurt that we didn't see him as Good Guy Dad anymore. He is now depressingly bitter, probably not much older than you, and feels short-changed for almost the same reasons you have put down, and he gets no sympathy from his children because he put himself and us in this position. He knew what she was like and still he did nothing. And continues to do nothing, although he was definitely having an affair last year.

My mother is the best person she can be, and I love her as much as I can for that. She has MANY flaws, but essentially she does her best and that's all she can do, and she loves my father in her own way, as much as she is capable of. My father on the other hand has the potential to be a wonderful person (and was in the past) but is now a bitter, selfish individual who feels like his children have betrayed him because we are now adults and can understand the situation rather than blindly follow him because he was our hero. He blames my mother for everything, even though they are equally responsible. He could be a great person again, but instead he chooses to stew in how unfair life has been, paying no heed to the fact that he himself was in charge of his destiny, and his cowardice and inaction is what has led him to where he is now.

Don't end up like that, please. DO something.

Speisekarte

OP you need to enforce your personal boundaries.

Don't even allow her to speak to you with a disrespectful voice without calling her on it. Tell her you won't tolerate it her going away every weekend. You are keeping a log of all activities and this will be mentioned in court.

Tell her she needs to contribute her fair share. Until she complies and treats you fairly do nothing for her, if she asks you to get a glass of water, don't do it until she treats you fairly. You need to seriously put your foot down and put her in her place, she should be your equal, not your master.

Emme

Need a life wrote: »

Sunflower, thanks for the support. Daisy, while I'm not perfect, I have worked damn hard at trying to make this marriage work. However, my wife just doesn't give a damn about me as a person, e.g., I was in a car crash six years ago and she never even visited me in the hospital as she was "too busy with work and the kids", I had food poisoning last year where my I lost five kilos in body weight in the space of a few days and she wouldn't even get me a glass of water, my father died last year and I cried while giving the eulogy and she thought this was funny. Do you have an idea of what she's like now??

She doesn't seem to give a toss about you. From what I can deduce, the only reason she is staying with you is for the financial security and status of marriage.

Need a life wrote: »

As for counselling, I did go to see a therapist two years ago to see why I was always feeling so damn down and miserable and you know what she said after ten sessions and several psychotherapy questions sheets that i had to write my answers down to various situations and scenarios, in her professional opinion, the only thing psychologically wrong with me was that I was in an unhappy marriage.

I agree with your therapist.

Need a life wrote: »

Since I posted this morning, I sat down with my wife and spoke to her calmly, even though she refuses to look at me. I asked her if she had any thoughts about going to mediation which she responded y saying she was too busy at the moment but "she'd get round to it". She then said that I was to take my holidays next month to mind the kids and she would then go on part time work in September.

She tells you when you take your holidays so you can mind the children? :eek: A reasonable person would sit down with you and work out a mutually convenient arrangement.

Need a life wrote: »

I said "hang on a minute. I have been paying the mortgage and all the bills for years which is going to stop now. As you will be paying half of everything from now on, how can you pay half while on half salary?". In addition I said, "as one of us will be moving out, there will be further out goings on renting another place".

None of this seems to occur to her or maybe it does but she wants to work part time, while I continue to pay for everything plus pay for somewhere else to live.

I think she knows you're thinking of leaving. Maybe working part time is a ploy on her part. Perhaps she thinks that if she's earning less she will get a better deal if you divorce her. Get legal advice on this.

Need a life wrote: »

Finally Daisy, yes perhaps I'm feeling sorry for myself, but if you were in my shoes, you'd be asking yourself what had you done so wrong for your wife to hate you? Maybe if I had gone and had an affair, then she could have reason to hate me. She's gone away again for the weekend leaving me with the kids. That's three out of the last four weekends. Oh for a happy family life where we could all go off for a picnic or to the beach. Yeah I'll stop dreaming.

Where does your wife go at weekends? Could she be having an affair? I know hiring a private investigator might seem a bit grubby, but the cost could be well worth it if you suspect she's cheating.

Again, I think you should get legal advice, OP. You need to get off your ass and start working towards getting a decent life for yourself. You owe it to your children if not yourself. Being bitter and angry about your wife will only hold you back.

LegacyUser

Well it's come to a head. She's told me we have no future, the marriage is over, there's no point in going to Counselling etc. All this following her return from her weekend away. She's always extremely aggressive and Bolshie once she comes back from these weekends away, whether its because her separated sister is coaching her (she did well out of her separation, getting the house, the car, the kids, most of her ex hubby's salary, can still go on two foreign holidays a year etc while she was the one who had the affair????), or whether my wife has a new man in her life and she sees me as an obstacle to her moving on?

I've been sleeping on the couch for six months now but haven't been able to sleep much lately (wonder why?). So I got up this morning to get a glass of water and I found my wife in the kitchen without her top on, wearing just her bra. She screamed at me to get out and give her privacy (I didn't know she was in the kitchen). I told her I wasn't looking at her but she made such a scene and woke the kids. Later as she was eating her breakfast, I asked her if we could talk about our situation to see what we would do. She said there is no point as the marriage is over. So I said what about my suggestion of one of us moves out but that we have joint custody? She said she wasn't letting the kids go but that I could see them at the weekends.

Ok, I'm now slowly realising that yes my marriage is dead. I'm a sad case for thinking that maybe we could work it out (and yes, I have been clinging to that hope despite everything). What I'm feeling right now is akin to grief, like how I felt when my father died. Everyone thinks of me as a "strong" type of guy, the type of individual who people turn to when they have a problem that needs fixing. However I'm falling apart mentally and emotionally and it's hard to keep up a front for my kids and when I'm in work. I'm feeling tortured at losing my kids as despite what some people might have thought from my ramblings, I am a great Dad. I don't spoil them, I am strict with them when necessary and I'm the one who sends them to their rooms when they are naughty. However they do love me and I adore them and I can't even think about not seeing them every day, without tears welling up.

I spoke to my eldest girl last night when we went out on our bikes about what was going on. I was surprised at how clued in to all this she was. She says that she and her siblings are afraid of the rows and fights which shocked me as I thought we had kept most of the nasty stuff from them. She also said that her mother is constantly slagging me off to her and her siblings when I'm not there saying how they could be happy if I wasn't there. My daughter said she doesn't believe this and that she loves me. I told her she doesn't have to take sides, and that no matter what happens, I will always love her and the rest of my children.

I'm calling a solicitor this morning to try to get things sorted. It's not what I want, I just want my wife to love me but that's never going to happen. This the end of my marriage and a lot of hopes, plans and dreams. How this will affect my children, I don't know. I want them in my life more than anything. Nothing means more to me than them. I've given up on fighting for the house, hell I haven't been happy here for a long time and its got too many bad memories but the one thing I won't give an inch on is joint custody of my children. They are all I care about and have been my only source of love and joy these past few years.

As for my wife, it's true that I knew we were not suited from day one, but I did try to make it work. I am bitter about it all, especially when I think back to the time before we married when I told her my misgivings about our relationship and how she begged me to go ahead with the marriage. It's ironic how close I've come to begging her not to end it now, but I won't. Not out of pride but because there's no point as we'll never be happy together.

The one lesson from this, is think long and hard before you commit to a marriage and if you have misgivings, listen to them.

Emme

It might not seem this way but perhaps it is for the best that your wife has asked for the separation - she has inadvertently let you off the hook. Get good legal advice and tell the solicitor that your wife wants to end your marriage. She might ask for custody of the children (it would look better for her) but if you can prove that you have done more than your share of looking after them it might help. At the end of the day she might decide to let you have them if she's been making you do most of the childcare up until now.

I think the children will be relieved and much happier when they're not in a home where both parents are constantly at each other's throats.

You are effectively separated if you've been sleeping on the couch for 6 months.

You should also get counselling to help you through this. Do not let this experience make you bitter - if you play your cards right you will come through this a stronger and happier man. With the right attitude you will attract somebody who is right for you. I have a feeling that you will gain more from this separation than your wife even though it might appear differently now.

Good luck.

Speisekarte

OP why are you the one sleeping on the couch, can you not at least alternate?

Go for full custody, she's probably been having an affair IMO so try and get evidence of it. Discuss this with your solicitor, leave no stone unturned. Don't let this woman bully you.

Don't just roll over and let her take the house, your kids and half your salary.

It's your house too, try to get the house and custody for yourself. If what you say is true, you are the victim of domestic abuse. I'd imagine this would help your case for custody. Log all the abuse she has given you and collect evidence where possible.

Virgil°

I have to agree with Emme here OP. Although you don't see it now I really do think that your wife has inadvertently done you the largest favour you'll ever have done for you.

I could see a trend in your posts on here that although you were dismayed with her behaviour you hadn't realised that your marraige has been dead for some time. And chances are without this event you may never have jumped.

You now have a chance to gain some happiness. Do NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES simply hand over this woman your share of the house. Just don't do it. Also do not take her token gesture of having the kids on the weekends. From what it sounds like you deserve at the very least half of the share if not more. Ask your solicitor about this too.

Your kids will survive this OP. And in time, if not already, they will understand and accept what has happened.
I would also agree with Emme that you have a very high chance of coming out better in the long run here OP. Future suitors won't be as understanding as you have been. Your soon to be ex wife has about two chances of getting a man to date her as a sexually abstinent woman with kids.

Taltos

I have to echo the rest here OP.
If you want to continue to have a strong beneficial relationship with your kids you need to get legal advise asap and stick to your guns.

There is no need to get argumentative or stroppy but once you know your rights just don't allow yourself to be a walkover. Calm, reserved confidence - that is clearly and consistently shown to your kids will earn you alot more in the way of brownie points.

Don't allow them to get used as weapons - that will come and soon. So pronto - make an appointment and learn your rights.
If you can go prepared it might be easier.
List of assets; list of accounts (incl statements); ensure all joint accounts are secure (you don't want her emptying them); proof of earnings for both of you - every little damn thing.

Do it now - pick up the phone (or tomorrow am) and get to see someone sharpish before she escalates this and you capitulate out of either fear or ignorance of your rights.

The Corinthian

Virgil° wrote: »

I have to agree with Emme here OP. Although you don't see it now I really do think that your wife has inadvertently done you the largest favour you'll ever have done for you.

Not intentionally. If anything it is more likely that she's prepared for the upcoming separation/divorce and has done her legal homework. The OP should go to a solicitor without hesitation at this stage.

Future suitors won't be as understanding as you have been. Your soon to be ex wife has about two chances of getting a man to date her as a sexually abstinent woman with kids.

Who says she has to be sexually abstinent while she's in the process of seducing a man? She can give just enough to give hope that things will improve with time and then become sexually abstinent once she's got him tied down. Worked before.

Edit: Oh, and +1 on getting some counselling for yourself, as Emme suggested.

LegacyUser

Guys, I need to speak to someone about all this, a Counsellor that is. As someone who's always been a "coper", I can't deal with this. The thought of my marriage being over, not seeing my kids, my wife being with another man etc is making me a wreck. I've lined up a Solicitor to talk to about the legal side of things but right now, I need someone else to try to unjumble my head. Jeez I do feel sick about this. Any advice who I could talk to in the Kildare area? I'm pretty broke btw so can't afford to pay much

Neyite

Need a life wrote: »

Guys, I need to speak to someone about all this, a Counsellor that is. As someone who's always been a "coper", I can't deal with this. The thought of my marriage being over, not seeing my kids, my wife being with another man etc is making me a wreck. I've lined up a Solicitor to talk to about the legal side of things but right now, I need someone else to try to unjumble my head. Jeez I do feel sick about this. Any advice who I could talk to in the Kildare area? I'm pretty broke btw so can't afford to pay much

OP, I'm afraid we cant give recommendations here. But a lot of counsellors work on a sliding scale depending on your finances. Look into the ones in your area, and see if you can get any personal recommendations from any friends.

Blinder

I think the best thing for your kids is for you are your wife to separate. As someone that grew up with parents that didn't get along, and stayed together for the 'kids', I wish ( and I wished then, and even though they think they are hiding it, kids know!) that they hadn't and that they had being happy separated parents rather than unhappy parents that stayed together.

However, if you need someone to talk to, you can ring the samaritans (http://www.samaritans.org/) they are there for any issue that is troubling you. Also you should visit your doctor and ask them to recommend a therapist for a long term solution

StillWaters

I would ignore, for the time being posters advice to go in all guns blazing. The very best outcome here is for you both to accept the marriage is over, to speak to the children together, and to come to a solution that is fair(ish) to all parties through mediation.
You wont get full custody OP, she is the main carer and a stay at home mother. Going down that route will be costly and damaging.

I sympathise. What you have been through recently, living through a dying marriage is horrible, and the next period, of mourning, of sorting out the practicalities is equally awful.

There is light though. Marriages break up all the time, and if the negotiations are as amicable as they can be, and the welfare of children is placed centre stage, it is possible to move on, build a new life and have a great relationship with your children. And in time, believe it or not, your ex. I have lived through it, and that is the outcome I have now.

There is a lot of bile in your marriage. That has no place now in the negotiations for the best outcome for your children. I do think counselling would be good for you.

The Corinthian

StillWaters wrote: »

I would ignore, for the time being posters advice to go in all guns blazing.

I certainly would not turn belligerent and immediately embark on an aggressive approach (this will look very bad), but he would also be foolish not to prepare for the likelihood of one. And old acquaintance of mine avoided conflict at all costs, while in turn his wife did not, and by the time he realized he had to do something about it, he was paying over 60% of his salary, was kicked out of the house that he still had to pay the full mortgage for and his access arrangements to his children were miserly (and ignored).

According to the OP, his wife has not exactly been collaborative in the past and has the council of her sister who was apparently able to take her own ex-husband to the cleaners; there's just too many red flags there for me to believe that it's going to end amicably.

Still, one lives in hope. It's one of those situations whereby it's much better to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. He should not go in guns blazing, but he certainly should go in discreetly armed to the teeth, in the likely scenario she does.