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Grizzly 45

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm not sure but it's probably enough to wage an extended military operation. If they're not facing an actual army with a proper air force how many planes would they really need to send up? I do know that they constantly have planes in the air circling the ship at all times, so they must have a fair amount of fuel on board.

It would probably be in some sort of a fleet as well.

A few Carrier Battle Group facts.
A carrier battle group in itself is over 10 to 12 ships.Something like half or re supply,re provision,tankers etc. One Nuke class carrier has two atomic reactors,which are capable of powering both the carrier and literally a city the size of Dublin when both are switched on.The catering on a carrier can feed four thousand people three times a day with three different meals of choice.
On average there is a detachment of over 800 US Marines on the carrier alone in charge of policing,ship security,and raiding and ship boarding parties.You can double that number when they tool up the "squid bait"[Navy]
On board in the fleet amphibious vechicles for US Marine usage on onshore ops.Four dedicated MEDVAC/SAR helicopters as well.
Four sick bays of 100 hunderd beds with operating theaters designed to handle mass casaulties of all kinds .
A CBG can stay out on extended mission of 2.5 years if need be and roughing it.
Wont even go into the firepower it can put up in the air if need be,and the entire intregrated fleet defence run off the Aegis class cruisers.But short to say it is the most potent weapon in the US arsenal for either humanitarian missions or war if need be.Cost to run one CBG for a year over 10 billion USD.
They have six of them..!!!;)
In short I doubt very much that there will be much of a threat on the seas if a US CBG is still around.;).Nor will there be total collapse if a couple of these pull into Norflock and San Diego and plug back into the local US national grid.

Back to us lot here..when it does fall apart either by Z's or not.Ireland is pretty much going to revert to tribalism and clans.We dont do unity very well here in Ireland on any issues in peace time or on a national level for our benefits.What will it be like post WWZ??Historically Ireland was conqured this way by better disiplined and more aggressive troops and governance.So it would be possible for a disiplined force using the tactics of divide and conquer and kill them all and let God sort them out could retake this Island pretty easily.

Grizzly 45

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The last thing you need to oppress people is civilization. What you need is to keep the people downtrodden, uneducated and living in a constant state of fear, all under the illusion of civilization.

Err are we forgetting the last thousand years or so of the dominiation of the Church of the political landscape post the fall of Rome to almost the present day???The church was the keeper of the surviving knowledge of the vast Roman libaries,which Rome had plunderd from other civilisations. Being able to scare the bejaysus out of your pouplation with promises of eternal damnation and the reward of paradise helps as well.Add that to the military might of your local ruler and you have a very potent force.

Initially you offer them a safe haven and they are so grateful they feel like they owe you loyalty which makes them easy to manipulate.

But you have to continously grauntee that as well to the sheep ,before you can fleece them of their useable skills.

You have a band of merry mercenaries who are there to "protect" the people from the enemy and by the time they realise that the mercenaries are there to also control them, it's too late.

I think you are under the mis apprenhension of what Mercenaries are .They are trained professionals who will work for anyone paying their wages.They can just as easily turn and fight against the local warlord too if the opposition offers better wages or whatever.or they just decide the little kingdom is quite nice,so get rid of the slob running it and they take over themselves.
They are the most untrustworthy of men and were generally used historically in a specialist role or cannon fodder and dispensed with as quickly as possible post battle.About the only successful country to use Mercs and survive is the Vatican with its Swiss gaurd.:)

They have become stuck in a rut with no power and no means of escape. It's either play by your rules or get killed.

Unless you are going to build inward facing machine gun nests mine fields and fences ala the East German state,you are going to find it very difficult to keep your pouplation.Cant see how this could be done post WWZ.

TBH my take would be.There will be enough technology from the early 20th century and late 19th century available if it is studied to springboard back into the 21st century without all the social and pouplation problems of the late 20th and early 21st century.Ok,if we are using oil lamps rather than electric light for awhile or a horse drawn buggy,while we figure out how to get a stream train to run again,or a steam car or motorbike.And NO they wont and dont look like something out of the 19th century either.Think of a society where genuine equality of the sexes could exist.Man and woman will need to cooperate build and survive together without any artifical constraints of "gender or racial inequality." No massive EU directives massively micro managing our lives,or any banks trying to erke the last cent out of us either.
Its going to be rough on the Welfare class without the states tit to suck off.
No one will tolerate those kind of people.You will do something useful or die,simple as that.But you will have a plethora of useful jobs you could do anyway so there will be no constraints or reason not to do something useful with your life.

Grizzly 45

ScumLord wrote: »

It may be too high, I used that number because it was the stable human population pre industrialisation. I think it'll be very difficult for the virus to find every human population on the planet. In Europe it can spread through the major cities like wildfire but once it get's out into the countryside it will slow somewhat and it may never make it to some more remote parts of the world.

Er sorry to bust your bubble on that one.In the great flu pandemic of 1918,the Spanish flu,even with a world war happening was found in some of the remotest Eskimo tribes and primitive tribes in Africa!! This was at the time flying was a novelty still and the motor car was just starting out as well..
How quick could a modern pandemic spread with our global means of travel and interlinks these days??!918 it was months ,2013 it is a matter of days or hours.

We contributed to a mass extinction event in the US after the last ice age using just stone tools.

Curious...what was that???



If we look down throughout history human society defaults to having a strong leader, especially in small groups. As the group gets bigger though there's a lot of pressure on the leader to take care of absolutely everything. When things go bad the leader is immediately at risk and the entire population has someone to turn on.

The thing is we are civilized people, we don't really know how to be barbaric. Our automatic response isn't violence it's discussion.

Ahem...You have heard the expression civilisation is five meals away from Anarchy??You dont have to look far to see this in action..The LA riots,Hurricane Katrina,London two years ago,Syria,Libya,the Yougoslav conflict.

We've had plenty of natural disasters and wars lately, if society broke down for those reasons we'd still be throwing stones at each other

.

It doesnt even need societal breakdown either.

The problem is our historical record speaks volumes about wars but ignores the majority of the population that didn't fight and just wanted to be able to raise families in peace. That is the default state of humanity, peaceful coexistence is what the majority of people have done throughout history

.

Put it better ...We ASPIRE to peaceful co existance.
Unfortuneatly our leaders and rulers need to involve us to hate our enemies for whatever reasons,otherwise they wouldnt have us providing their armies,their foodstuffs and raw materials to feed and equip their armies.

How do you manage large groups of people without civilization? You need to be able to keep records, organise armies on vast scales and have the ability to resupply them. If you're not a progressive civilization you also run the risk of one coming along and destroying you.

The Romans who were sacked by the "barbaric" Goths and Vandals might disagree on that point.:)
It depends on what kind of civilisation you have.Is it a bright vibrant disiplined productive innovative society as Rome was in its peak.Or is it Rome where debauchery,corruption,cronyism,battles for scarce resources months away from Rome are happening and your pouplation is kept in check with bread and circuses but are stripping the treasury and resources at home...BUT the aqeducts still work,the Senate still sits,the day to day life of the progressive civilisation still goes on..But it is still doomed because of internal and external pressures of keeping that progressive civilisation going.