1st gundog to get?

Glenbulldog

Hi,looking for advice on 1st gundog to get I will be hunting mainly pheasant and duck torn between pointer ,springer maybe cocker any advice would be great thanks .

Chiparus

Labrador?

Cavan duck buster

Labradores are great dogs, love retriving every time :)Springer is a good bet also

Lancer89

Get a springer... They'll go into the heaviest cover, swim, and you'll be tired before them. Get them as a pup and train them young and you'll have a dog that will make you smile and your mates green with envy.

great temperments, great energy and a will to work for you
On the other side of the scale, they need walks everyday and can shed a bit if you're going to have them in the house

EPointer=Birdss

Lancer89 wrote: »

great temperments, great energy and a will to work for you
On the other side of the scale, they need walks everyday and can shed a bit if you're going to have them in the house

Vast majority of gun dogs will fall into that category.

OP
If shooting on your own I'd get a pointing dog. Can work a good mix of ground & give you as good a chance as any to get a shot away.
If with another lad then 2 springers is hard to beat with one either side of a ditch.
Also depends on your ground

LIFFY FISHING

I got my first gun dog in Janurary, a Springer & he is brilliant, he was 2, glad I didnt get a pup. dont think it would have been fair on him or easy on me to train him as he is my first dog.

snipe02

Springer ya can use them for rabbits anytime will do nearly all of what the others will do in one package easy train if ya dont rush things after that id like a lab never owned one but seen them work steadier than springers and more versatile at finding game

stoeger2000

If its your first dog, I'd get one that's already working. Plenty of working dogs for sale with lads immigrating. It depends on the ground your shooting on, but you won't go wrong with a pointer or a springer. I'd avoid a pup as your first dog, get one that is doing the basics and not gun shy, and you can put the finishing touches to him yourself.

TriggerPL

stoeger2000 wrote: »

If its your first dog, I'd get one that's already working. Plenty of working dogs for sale with lads immigrating. It depends on the ground your shooting on, but you won't go wrong with a pointer or a springer. I'd avoid a pup as your first dog, get one that is doing the basics and not gun shy, and you can put the finishing touches to him yourself.

Labrador , I wouldn't recommend a springer as a first time dog

deeksofdoom

It all depends on what type of ground and what your hunting.

Thick ditches and glens and duck - a springer.

Open ground, mountain, beet fields - a pointer

Standing at a peg or beside a river -a labrador

Pointers aren't the greatest retrievers or swimmers in the world, however some will do it.

Labs are natural retrievers.

But in my opinion you will not go wrong with a good springers, if its your first dog go for an adult rather than a pup.

TriggerPL

deeksofdoom wrote: »

It all depends on what type of ground and what your hunting.

Thick ditches and glens and duck - a springer.

Open ground, mountain, beet fields - a pointer

Standing at a peg or beside a river -a labrador

Pointers aren't the greatest retrievers or swimmers in the world, however some will do it.

Labs are natural retrievers.

But in my opinion you will not go wrong with a good springers, if its your first dog go for an adult rather than a pup.

I don't tend to agree with that at all , a lab will do everything a springer will do , granted probably not as fast as a springer , but will hunt the ground every bit as gud

garyc007

well iv found springers much easier to train than pointers so id reccomend a springer as a first dog, a good lab is a bit harder found.you can always get a pointer at a later stage if nobody you hunt with has one

deeksofdoom

TriggerPL wrote: »

I don't tend to agree with that at all , a lab will do everything a springer will do , granted probably not as fast as a springer , but will hunt the ground every bit as gud

.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH no they wont!

charlie10

TriggerPL wrote: »

I don't tend to agree with that at all , a lab will do everything a springer will do , granted probably not as fast as a springer , but will hunt the ground every bit as gud

jesus trigger that wouldnt be like to u :D:D i agree with a lab being as good as a springer friend of mine has two black bitchs and they would hunt cover and run the back of ditchs all day but very slowly like trigger said , but for a first dog i think a pointer ,there is some special moments u will have with a pointer and have great respect for a working dog when u see them pointing . i have to say a gwp myself, got a lad off alchemist granted he was mad he could hunt and retrieve off water better than a lab and that is not an exaggeration he could swim the athlantic and a good dog in cover . for me my vote goes to the gwp!!

deeksofdoom

I have a GWP to and she's pretty **** hot, however I prefer the springer to shoot over, but thats just personnal preference.

The GWP took a long time to come right as in being gun nervous, highly strung - you can't raise your voice to them and there's just a different approach to training the GWP compared to a springer, you have to go easier, training takes longer and they love to bark.

Also not everyone has a GWP and I hate shooting with a GWP on one side of the ditch and a springer on the other, the reason being the springer will just start to follow the GWP and rush in while the GWP is pointing and could make the dog unsteady, its painfull to watch.

charlie10

well i was presuming he was shooting alone,some springers break down too when u raise ur voice and i had a pointer no matter what u say or do it wouldnt bother him so i suppose its down to the individual dog and not the breed as such. i just think every kennel should have a pointing or setting dog even though i dont own one at min but have an urge to hunt over one again

kermitpwee

TriggerPL wrote: »

I don't tend to agree with that at all , a lab will do everything a springer will do , granted probably not as fast as a springer , but will hunt the ground every bit as gud

Jasus I thought you were a springer man. I don't think I have ever seen anybody hunting woodcock with a lab. I have a very good springer and any lab I have seen wouldn't be a patch on him for hunting rough ground with little scent. Any dog can go through cover when there is scent but for me a good springer will hunt cover all day even if there is nothing there. I'm not so sure a lab will do this but I am open to correction.

Birdnuts

I'd recommend a nice black Lab from a reputable breeder as a starter gun dog - just my experience but I always found them easier to work with which is a big consideration if he/she is going to be your first gun-dog. Once you feel confident working dogs in the field, you can always add springers, pointers etc. to your kennel.

TriggerPL

kermitpwee wrote: »

Jasus I thought you were a springer man. I don't think I have ever seen anybody hunting woodcock with a lab. I have a very good springer and any lab I have seen wouldn't be a patch on him for hunting rough ground with little scent. Any dog can go through cover when there is scent but for me a good springer will hunt cover all day even if there is nothing there. I'm not so sure a lab will do this but I am open to correction.

I've a lab and a springer bud and like I said the lab will go anywhere the springer will and hunt ground with little or no scent on command , but wouldn't be as fast at the springer , but go all day all the same , the full sister of my bitch is a demon in cover and used as a woodcock dog more than anything !

Breed to a dog of Paul toal this year to which he decided to buy two pups , so you might see them on the lab trailing circuit in the near future

EPointer=Birdss

OP we really need more retail about what you plan on doing.
I.e
type of ground
How often will you shoot & for how long
Will you be alone or with others
What dog do they shoot with

I would guess better advice will be given then. For now your only really getting personal preferences. If you come back & say you shoot ditches mostly with a buddy who has a springer then a springer might be best but if you hunt 8hrs every Sat & you think a springer will hunt all day effectively then you should consider somethin leggier built to run & have stamina for it. Saying that I rarely work any dog for more than one 3-4 hr session a day to look after em so the detail is needed

deeksofdoom

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

OP we really need more retail about what you plan on doing.
I.e
type of ground
How often will you shoot & for how long
Will you be alone or with others
What dog do they shoot with

I would guess better advice will be given then. For now your only really getting personal preferences. If you come back & say you shoot ditches mostly with a buddy who has a springer then a springer might be best but if you hunt 8hrs every Sat & you think a springer will hunt all day effectively then you should consider somethin leggier built to run & have stamina for it. Saying that I rarely work any dog for more than one 3-4 hr session a day to look after em so the detail is needed

All of these threads turn into a my dog is better than your dog, pure ****e thread.:rolleyes:

Glenbulldog

Sorry for not giving more info ,I will be hunting by myself a lot of my area will be open fields small ditches and marshy ground ,will probably spend most of the day out (6-8 hours)

TriggerPL

Glenbulldog wrote: »

Sorry for not giving more info ,I will be hunting by myself a lot of my area will be open fields small ditches and marshy ground ,will probably spend most of the day out (6-8 hours)

Pointing dog ! Short hair German pointer if ya want an all rounder ! Or wired haired pointer ( IMO ugly dogs) or English pointer , my preference is the English pointer for that type of ground there fantastic dogs to watch and very trainable , the German counterparts tend to be bit more difficult to train but nothing unmanageable !

Best of luck in ur purchase

EPointer=Birdss

TriggerPL wrote: »

Pointing dog ! Short hair German pointer if ya want an all rounder ! Or wired haired pointer ( IMO ugly dogs) or English pointer , my preference is the English pointer for that type of ground there fantastic dogs to watch and very trainable , the German counterparts tend to be bit more difficult to train but nothing unmanageable !

Best of luck in ur purchase

+1

You see OP everyone has opinions without asking the right questions but the detail you provided sets the scene here - fact is your ground suits a pointing dog & I agree with Triggers post above.
The real consideration here now is can you afford the time to train it. With enough effort & reserach there should be no reason you can't train any dog & don't be turned off trying, as people would have you believe it's impossible & as it's your first dog you are beat before you start which is pure Irish nonsense! You might not get a champion but you have to learn some time & the best way to learn is research the theory & then try it. You get better each time you try & at the end of the day the dog will have it or not - just try & hang on & enjoy the fruits of your labour when it starts coming together!

Good luck

TriggerPL

Epointer does a few YouTube clips for training a young pointer that he would link to you if you go down that road of a pointer

Hunterjohnb

Hello Glenbulldog, Get the breed that most appeals to you. A springer is a very exciting dog to shoot over. As you get to know your dog you will begin to recognise the behaviour pattern on live quarry. They are generally easier to train and a great family dog.If you want a signpost to your game get a pointer:D

EPointer=Birdss

Hunterjohnb wrote: »

Hello Glenbulldog, Get the breed that most appeals to you. A springer is a very exciting dog to shoot over. As you get to know your dog you will begin to recognise the behaviour pattern on live quarry. They are generally easier to train and a great family dog.If you want a signpost to your game get a pointer:D

Poor advice. Your not considering the guys circumstances just giving your opinion based on breed preference
Your description of a springer is correct but all gundogs are great family pets.

As for the signpost well if it was really that easy

Hunterjohnb

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Poor advice. Your not considering the guys circumstances just giving your opinion based on breed preference
Your description of a springer is correct but all gundogs are great family pets.

As for the signpost well if it was really that easy

You,as I, are entitled to your opinion.The question was the I st dog. Having shot over and trained, springers and setters for many decades and now shooting over GWP, I am giving my opinion based on MY shooting experiences.

ferrete

To be perfectly honest with my experience I found pointing dogs to suit open ground but if your going after woodcock etc and hunting a lot of thick cover eg furze bushed etc a point is not a great idea as you cannot c if its pointing and if it does where is it pointing at. So for cover heavy cover I mean you would be better off with a cocker or springer and if hunting a lot of duck on the coast etc a lab would be better as its more capable a springer etc can do this also as I use mine for it but with tides and currents its sore on them so I always take a lab also. A lab can and will hunt woodcock also as we use a 2 springers and 2 labs mainly and the labs are good hunters also the ones I no are really good but one was recently sold and was only used for woodcock the other is actually better than most springers but we have between use a fantasic springer that will go threw anything and is more enjoyable to shoot over(in my humble opinion the springer is better for cover). But to be honest a springer is the easiest to train with little effort the lab a bit more time is needed to get it hunting. But the pointer especially the germans would be more head strong. And I personally find a bitch easier to train and that little bit more loyal and willing to please

EPointer=Birdss

Hunterjohnb wrote: »

You,as I, are entitled to your opinion.The question was the I st dog. Having shot over and trained, springers and setters for many decades and now shooting over GWP, I am giving my opinion based on MY shooting experiences.

Of course you are & glad to have another name around here.
My point is he said he's shooting open ground, light ditches & marshy ground which usually means rushes a plenty. I have a lot of that as well as thicker stuff & I have both types of dogs. It's horses for courses & to use the springers on the open land is ineffective, not as enjoyable & the wrong tool for the job. That's my angle on it - pure context. You have had may dogs so in his situation are saying you would use a springer?

TriggerPL

Hunterjohnb wrote: »

You,as I, are entitled to your opinion.The question was the I st dog. Having shot over and trained, springers and setters for many decades and now shooting over GWP, I am giving my opinion based on MY shooting experiences.

Surely a man with your vast expeirence would know that for the ground he's working a pointing dog is the way to go ! As for signpost you have a gwp ! So what ya on about

Glenbulldog

Ok lads bit the bullet,going to look at a English pointer today owner emigrating owner had been hunting over him says he's a bit wild to start but he points flushes and retrieves will let everyone know how things work out thanks for all the replies

natdog

The old emigrating story(don't bother coming back im not here) bit wild to start(pure mad but covers up the way he is when you look at him) be careful a lot of pure ****e out there.

deeksofdoom

natdog wrote: »

The old emigrating story(don't bother coming back im not here) bit wild to start(pure mad but covers up the way he is when you look at him) be careful a lot of pure ****e out there.

Sur if he's no good he'll know soon enough and he can give the same line to someone else.

At any rate best of luck to you, hopefully he'll make an excellent shooting companion. You have taken all the good advice on board and have choosen a dog that will suit your needs, not something that you like the look of.;)

EPointer=Birdss

Glenbulldog wrote: »

Ok lads bit the bullet,going to look at a English pointer today owner emigrating owner had been hunting over him says he's a bit wild to start but he points flushes and retrieves will let everyone know how things work out thanks for all the replies

Just be cautious of that. Get a decent trial & see how he goes. A bad dog could turn you off the breed. Gonna be hard to see does be even point this time of year. Also Get him to fire a shot over him.

charlie10

best of luck to u lad hope he works out for u , no doubt he will and at the end of the day once you shoot a few birds over him the rest dont matter ,once he is not gun shy and some bit steady . just be careful and dont spend to much on him if u see flaws

Hunterjohnb

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Of course you are & glad to have another name around here.
My point is he said he's shooting open ground, light ditches & marshy ground which usually means rushes a plenty. I have a lot of that as well as thicker stuff & I have both types of dogs. It's horses for courses & to use the springers on the open land is ineffective, not as enjoyable & the wrong tool for the job. That's my angle on it - pure context. You have had may dogs so in his situation are saying you would use a springer?

The original post was 1st dog.That to me suggests the Op can only keep one dog. Pointers are excellent for open ground yes, but not all pointers will retrieve. So my point was for an all round,do it all dog the springer fits the bill perfectly.
Trigger pl.the signpost remark was a little tongue in cheek, pity you didn't recognise that before you put on the size 11s.

snipe02

Why dont you get out with some people you know with each breed and whatch them work dont need a gun see what floats your boat if ya dont know anyone some lads off here might bring ya ill help if I can it might give ya an idea what are the other lads in your area shooting over

jap gt

not a great time of year to trial a dog, be careful what you get, maybe get a friend with a pointer or similar to tag along with you

Glenbulldog

To be fair the previous owner really is emigrating To all the replies fair play thanks ,he didnt cost me anything ,I'm gonna bring him out Sunday afternoon for a run (gonna give him a few days to get used to me and vice versa) if he needs work so be it I'm in this for the long haul I'm hoping next year to pair him up with a springer but for the moment ill concentrate on him again thanks everyone btw epointer great vids on youtube

Glenbulldog

snipe02 wrote: »

Why dont you get out with some people you know with each breed and whatch them work dont need a gun see what floats your boat if ya dont know anyone some lads off here might bring ya ill help if I can it might give ya an idea what are the other lads in your area shooting over

That's half the problem I don't know any other fellas with the same problem

TriggerPL

Hunterjohnb wrote: »

The original post was 1st dog.That to me suggests the Op can only keep one dog. Pointers are excellent for open ground yes, but not all pointers will retrieve. So my point was for an all round,do it all dog the springer fits the bill perfectly.
Trigger pl.the signpost remark was a little tongue in cheek, pity you didn't recognise that before you put on the size 11s.

Sizes 10s !! As for signpost pity ya didn read the whole thread first ! Im not the only one that didn pick up on it , try thinking before typing , stops brain farts !

charlie10

while the girls are bickering there glenbulldog have u any pic of this fine specimen

kermitpwee

Glenbulldog wrote: »

To be fair the previous owner really is emigrating To all the replies fair play thanks ,he didnt cost me anything ,I'm gonna bring him out Sunday afternoon for a run (gonna give him a few days to get used to me and vice versa) if he needs work so be it I'm in this for the long haul I'm hoping next year to pair him up with a springer but for the moment ill concentrate on him again thanks everyone btw epointer great vids on youtube

I have always taken 7 days with a new dog before I brought it out, it has worked well this way. Good luck and well done.

Glenbulldog

charlie10 wrote: »

while the girls are bickering there glenbulldog have u any pic of this fine specimen

Ill stick some up as soon as I can Charlie

snipe02

Good luck with the dog

dodderangler

Best of luck with him
I'm always a bit sceptical on lads selling things and using the whole emigrating story
Hope he works out for you anyway
Is this your first pointer breed?

Glenbulldog

dodderangler wrote: »

Best of luck with him
I'm always a bit sceptical on lads selling things and using the whole emigrating story
Hope he works out for you anyway
Is this your first pointer breed?

Yeah first pointer breed so hopefully it will work out thanks,when I bring him out Sunday for his first run would I be better keeping him on a long thin rope and try him with the whistle to test him?

Kells1

All the best with your new dog.Maybe invest in a book or two on pointers to help yo out.

EPointer=Birdss

Glenbulldog wrote: »

Yeah first pointer breed so hopefully it will work out thanks,when I bring him out Sunday for his first run would I be better keeping him on a long thin rope and try him with the whistle to test him?

The rope might be no harm but if he wasn't trained to it, you might not see the dog working right. If you have bonded with him & he goes wild off the lead put him back on it.
What exactly has the seller told you the dog does/ doesn't do?

Glenbulldog

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

The rope might be no harm but if he wasn't trained to it, you might not see the dog working right. If you have bonded with him & he goes wild off the lead put him back on it.
What exactly has the seller told you the dog does/ doesn't do?

He said he was on the whistle 1 pip to stop,2 pips to return I'd just be worried that he wouldn't come back if I let him off straight away what ya think any advice.?