What do you do?

Xander_82

So. You study for the Leaving Cert to get the points for Psychology. You go to one of the top universities in Ireland. You get your BA in Psychology. You go to the UK and do a Masters in whatever discipline in Psychology.

You come home, and there are no jobs. No paid experience you can do. No career pathway at all.

Medicine has a pathway. Med students don't have to do voluntary experience until they're 30. Physiotherapists or vets or radiographers or architects aren't expected to study for 5 or 6 years to become a volunteer.

What do you do??

Valmont

I hate to say this but your undergraduate degree and masters aren't really that useful to anybody. You need to stop complaining about not 'having a path' to follow and get to work making your knowledge useful to somebody somehow.

endacl

Welcome to reality!

If there aren't any jobs advertised, why not private practise? There's certainly a need for services. Make yourself available and known.

Xander_82

Valmont wrote: »

I hate to say this but your undergraduate degree and masters aren't really that useful to anybody. You need to stop complaining about not 'having a path' to follow and get to work making your knowledge useful to somebody somehow.

That's really constructive. Thanks for that. You must be a committee member of the PSI with an attitude like that.

endacl

Xander_82 wrote: »

That's really constructive. Thanks for that. You must be a committee member of the PSI with an attitude like that.

It's harsh, but it's true. There are plenty of clinical/educational/forensic/research/counselling etc. MA's coming out of universities every year. There are very few professions that have a clearly defined post-academic path. What you're asking is 'where are the jobs?' when you might be better off asking 'how do I make myself attractive to the work that is out there?'.

Valmont

Xander_82 wrote: »

That's really constructive. Thanks for that. You must be a committee member of the PSI with an attitude like that.

Considering I was a sub-committee member of the PSI during my undergraduate days I feel your future career in psychology will be greatly enhanced by your ability to read minds. I'm sorry you don't like my attitude but I was not being flippant; you have a set of degrees that in themselves are not practical or useful to anyone. Now when you share this with thousands and thousands of other students you surely understand that you must have something extra to distinguish yourself.

(1) Start a blog and make connections
(2) Get involved with the PSI or some such body and make connections
(3) Volunteer with a relevant organisation and make connections
(4) Contact some researchers whose work you are interested in and make connections
(5) Forget that your degree or masters entitles you to a nice and easy and straightforward career path.

Xander_82

Valmont wrote: »

Considering I was a sub-committee member of the PSI during my undergraduate days I feel your future career in psychology will be greatly enhanced by your ability to read minds. I'm sorry you don't like my attitude but I was not being flippant; you have a set of degrees that in themselves are not practical or useful to anyone. Now when you share this with thousands and thousands of other students you surely understand that you must have something extra to distinguish yourself.

(1) Start a blog and make connections
(2) Get involved with the PSI or some such body and make connections
(3) Volunteer with a relevant organisation and make connections
(4) Contact some researchers whose work you are interested in and make connections
(5) Forget that your degree or masters entitles you to a nice and easy and straightforward career path.

In how many other professions are 5 years of quite high level education essentially worthless?

Are you proud to be part of an organisation and profession where WHO you know is more important than WHAT you know?

Should portions of undergraduate psychology be scrapped in favour of training in Networking?

Why are so many people admitted to Psychology degrees and Masters when the demand for these professions in the workplace is so small? Medicine and Veterinary, for example, have limited admittance to match the demand for graduates.

Valmont

Xander_82 wrote: »

Are you proud to be part of an organisation and profession where WHO you know is more important than WHAT you know? Should portions of undergraduate psychology be scrapped in favour of training in Networking?

Dedicated and hard-working students find time to network around their gruelling 'high-level' studies. You can stomp your feet all you like but you need connections. What is the point in knowing about psychology if nobody likes you or even knows that you exist? Your transcript is not going to get you a job.

Xander_82 wrote: »

Why are so many people admitted to Psychology degrees and Masters when the demand for these professions in the workplace is so small?

That's not how it works. There are so many people on psychology degrees because there are so many people who want to study psychology. The demand for these graduates has nothing to do with it really.

You've obviously graduated and know plenty of information about psychology. Now you need to admit to yourself that 'Abnormal Psych 101' doesn't qualify or entitle you to anything. Get yourself out there!

Xander_82

Valmont, I am not disagreeing with you really. You are stating how things are. I agree with you. It is a case of who you know, not what you know. The best salesman will be employed, not the best psychologist. I understand how it all works.

The point of this thread is I wonder do any of us think that this is right. Is it just. Yes, there are loads of people who want to study psychology. We call ourselves a science and try to be scientific and measurable in all our endeavours. Yet then Psychology departments treat themselves as a subject like English or Mathematics by allowing hundreds of graduates every year. Medics and veterinarians, actuaries, engineers, architects, none of them allow the huge numbers of students to take their classes and graduate with hard earned degrees only to turn around and inform them that those degrees are more or less worthless and they are not employable at anything.

The cynic in me believes that those at the top of the PSI allow this scenerio because the lecturing pays well and the more students they have, the more research funding needed and lecturers employed. Not once in my 5 years of education did any lecturer lay out the facts- make friends with me and my lecturer buddies and don't worry about getting a 1st.

Psychology in Ireland, to me, is nothing more than a clique. A bunch of people who have power over the PSI, who care little for the hundreds of disenfranchised and demoralised graduates out there. (The PSI of course being the body who claims to represent these disillusioned graduates). The only way to make money and become powerful yourself is to play up to these powerful figures- go to their book launches, buy them coffee, buy them a drink, and basically brown nose til you drop.

I understand you Valmont, but is this the way things should really be?

Valmont

Xander_82 wrote: »

Valmont, I am not disagreeing with you really. You are stating how things are. I agree with you. It is a case of who you know, not what you know. The best salesman will be employed, not the best psychologist. I understand how it all works.

No, this is not what I am saying. I am saying that the best psychologists are where they are because of their ability to get out there and find work. Being able to sell themselves got them they jobs that helped mould them into the best psychologists.

You are trying to tell us that the best psychologists are somehow precluded from being the best 'salesmen', as if these are two mutually exclusive skill sets. It seems far more plausible to me that the best psychologists start off confident that they will succeed, demonstrate promise when they wrangle an opportunity, and eventually get placed somewhere brilliant where they can grow into the 'best psychologist'. You are also suggesting that those who employ psychologists are morons who will be taken in by any fool with a swagger, ignoring the next Carl Rogers sitting outside.

Xander_82 wrote: »

The point of this thread is I wonder do any of us think that this is right. Is it just. Yes, there are loads of people who want to study psychology. We call ourselves a science and try to be scientific and measurable in all our endeavours. Yet then Psychology departments treat themselves as a subject like English or Mathematics by allowing hundreds of graduates every year. Medics and veterinarians, actuaries, engineers, architects, none of them allow the huge numbers of students to take their classes and graduate with hard earned degrees only to turn around and inform them that those degrees are more or less worthless and they are not employable at anything.

I don't know where you have gotten the idea that university placements are calculated on the basis of the size of the job market; it doesn't work that way. It is a product of demand. Mathematics, medicine, and engineering are not only not as popular as psychology but much more difficult. Understandably there are less graduates.

Xander wrote:

Psychology in Ireland, to me, is nothing more than a clique. A bunch of people who have power over the PSI, who care little for the hundreds of disenfranchised and demoralised graduates out there. (The PSI of course being the body who claims to represent these disillusioned graduates). The only way to make money and become powerful yourself is to play up to these powerful figures- go to their book launches, buy them coffee, buy them a drink, and basically brown nose til you drop.

You could start to practice yourself; I don't think statutory regulation has started to exert its stranglehold of the industry just yet -- or maybe it has I haven't been following the psych news in Ireland lately.

endacl

Valmont wrote: »

You could start to practice yourself; I don't think statutory regulation has started to exert its stranglehold of the industry just yet -- or maybe it has I haven't been following the psych news in Ireland lately.

^^ This.

If you're a member of the PSI, or any other body, take out professional indemnity insurance, find a suitable premises, and establish yourself. Contact existing private services, and see if they have a use for somebody with your training. Generate referrals and cultivate relationships. There is definitely a shortfall as regards access to services. There is work out there. It's up to you to figure out how to access it and establish yourself. Same as if you were a doctor, a dentist, an accountant, or any number of other professions. If you can't find a job, make a job. Sitting around whining about 'who you know, not what you know' won't get you anywhere. If that's the culture here (and I'm not so sure that it is) and you want to work in the field, maybe you'd better get on board with the culture?

Xander_82

Valmont wrote: »

No, this is not what I am saying. I am saying that the best psychologists are where they are because of their ability to get out there and find work. Being able to sell themselves got them they jobs that helped mould them into the best psychologists.

You are trying to tell us that the best psychologists are somehow precluded from being the best 'salesmen', as if these are two mutually exclusive skill sets. It seems far more plausible to me that the best psychologists start off confident that they will succeed, demonstrate promise when they wrangle an opportunity, and eventually get placed somewhere brilliant where they can grow into the 'best psychologist'. You are also suggesting that those who employ psychologists are morons who will be taken in by any fool with a swagger, ignoring the next Carl Rogers sitting outside.

I don't know where you have gotten the idea that university placements are calculated on the basis of the size of the job market; it doesn't work that way. It is a product of demand. Mathematics, medicine, and engineering are not only not as popular as psychology but much more difficult. Understandably there are less graduates.

You could start to practice yourself; I don't think statutory regulation has started to exert its stranglehold of the industry just yet -- or maybe it has I haven't been following the psych news in Ireland lately.

1. Some people do not have good networking skills. To assume that someone will be good at promoting themselves, networking, negotiating employment contracts just because they were excellent at psychology is incorrect.

2. Mathematics, medicine and engineering are "much more difficult"? Who told you that or where did you read that? Can you post some proof of this ridiculous assertion please.

3. I did not imply that those who employ psychologists are morons. Neither are they experts. The people who employ psychologists are regular people who need help with emotional issues, addiction, work or sports performance, students, and so forth. How many of them know what a good or bad psychologist looks like?

Xander_82

endacl wrote: »

^^ This.

If you're a member of the PSI, or any other body, take out professional indemnity insurance, find a suitable premises, and establish yourself. Contact existing private services, and see if they have a use for somebody with your training. Generate referrals and cultivate relationships. There is definitely a shortfall as regards access to services. There is work out there. It's up to you to figure out how to access it and establish yourself. Same as if you were a doctor, a dentist, an accountant, or any number of other professions. If you can't find a job, make a job. Sitting around whining about 'who you know, not what you know' won't get you anywhere. If that's the culture here (and I'm not so sure that it is) and you want to work in the field, maybe you'd better get on board with the culture?

Do you agree this is the way the culture should be?

endacl

In fairness OP, your opening post asked the question 'what do you do?'

You got some good advice from Valmont. Do you really just want to have a rant about the job that wasn't waiting for you when you were ready for it?

I don't know what training you did, but you might use it to reflect on the tone of your responses here to somebody who offered helpful responses. Less than a page, and you're already becoming confrontational.

endacl

Xander_82 wrote: »

Do you agree this is the way the culture should be?

I really don't have an opinion on PSI. I'm not a member.

Xander_82

endacl wrote: »

In fairness OP, your opening post asked the question 'what do you do?'

You got some good advice from Valmont. Do you really just want to have a rant about the job that wasn't waiting for you when you were ready for it?

I don't know what training you did, but you might use it to reflect on the tone of your responses here to somebody who offered helpful responses. Less than a page, and you're already becoming confrontational.

What did I say that was confrontational?

endacl

This, for example.

Xander_82 wrote: »

2. Mathematics, medicine and engineering are "much more difficult"? Who told you that or where did you read that? Can you post some proof of this ridiculous assertion please.

I read Valmont's posts as well-intentioned and helpful. Responses like the above certainly don't display any skill at cultivating professional relationships. You might do well to think about that.

Establishing a career isn't easy. I sincerely do wish you the best of luck. I only suggest you look at the undertone of entitlement that you've displayed thus far in this thread.

Xander_82

Perhaps I found the assertion that something like mathematics is much more difficult than psychology a little insulting.

endacl

Xander_82 wrote: »

Perhaps I found the assertion that something like mathematics is much more difficult than psychology a little insulting.

Perhaps you did. Either way, best of luck. I'm out of this one now.

The Black Oil

Have a look around on Linkedin (taking it with a grain of salt, of course), and you'll see how psych graduates have built up their profiles and skills. You might learn about some avenues into work from looking at what others have been doing.

Valmont

I have bad networking skills. I'm not a salesman. The PSI is a clique. Psychology is just as difficult as mathematics and theoretical physics. I have a high-level education and nobody will employ me. The very people I want to help don't know what's good for them. Why does it have to be this way. The best psychologists don't get jobs. Why is it all so unfair.

You are not special because you have a psychology degree, that is what I'm trying to tell you. You are one of thousands with a very general education in a very diffuse subject. I agree that this is frustrating to realise upon graduation but it is the reality in which you find yourself. You can blame it on everybody else or the system or you can accept you need to develop other skill sets before you will be employable.

bureau2009

Surely if you have a Masters in Psychology (in a particular field of psychology) and are accredited by PSI or the UK equivalent then you are of practitioner level?

If they're aren't salaried positions available surely you can freelance? There is a demand for psychological services be they educational, counselling, clinical or organisational.

Position yourself so that you have the qualifications, experience and personal skills to meet people's needs to a very high standard. I think you'll find you'll be in demand. All this takes time and the more life experience you have yourself the more you have to offer clients.

The Black Oil

I suppose it depends if your MA/MSc is academic or applied/tailored to a specific set of skills and maybe had a placement component. Even with a Masters you'd probably need to work under a senior psych for a period of time to learn the appropriate skills and become accredited. I hope there are not too many 22/23 year olds just straight out of college (with an MA) calling themselves psychologists when they've little or no experience.

bureau2009

The Black Oil wrote: »

I hope there are not too many 22/23 year olds just straight out of college (with an MA) calling themselves psychologists when they've little or no experience.

Me too!

If I needed to consult with a psychologist I would be looking for someone close to my own age [and we won't say what age that is ]

Xander_82

bureau2009 wrote: »

Me too!

If I needed to consult with a psychologist I would be looking for someone close to my own age [and we won't say what age that is ]

Would you see a doctor in hospital who was 23?

bureau2009

Xander_82 wrote: »

Would you see a doctor in hospital who was 23?

Xander - I find the tone of your posts very wanting.

If you are thinking of working in a profession where personal skills and use of self is essential then you need to consider your attitude and suitability.

Xander_82

Is it not a fair question to ask you? You say you wouldn't see a Psychologist who was 23, but I think it's a fair question to ask if you'd see a doctor or nurse or physiotherapist who was 23. Would you?

The Black Oil

I'm not really seeing the comparison. Different skill sets.

Xander_82

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm not really seeing the comparison. Different skill sets.

That explains a lot.

Motopepe

You see a lot, Doctor. But are you strong enough to point that high-powered perception at yourself? What about it? Why don't you—why don't you look at yourself and write down what you see? Maybe you're afraid to.

The Black Oil

A medical doctor at 23, how many are there and would they be let loose on their own, seems unlikely. Nurses, OTs, physios at 23, I don't really see the issue because their degrees are specifically tailored to qualify them to deal with the demands of the job and can involve long placement periods. All of that has to be signed off on, supervised, etc. A BA in psychology qualifies you for, well, a basic grounding in introductory psychology modules and statistical techniques. An academic Masters might give you a lift, but at most you might be called a research assistant, or an assistant psychologist until further training is undertaken. The rigours of the job are reflected in the extended training requirements, I don't really see an issue with that. Unfortunately, a certain amount of box ticking is required to progress within psychology. That's just how competitive things are.

A friend of mine qualified as a psychologist in his 50s. He's about as un-cliquey as you can get.

Compu Global Hyper Meganet

I'm not a psychologist. After spending 4 years at college, I have now joined an accounting firm and am struggling with very tough professional exams while earning significantly less than minimum wage for a 40 hour week. I read somewhere that the average wage in this country for solicitors is around €16K per year. I know a girl who graduated from TCD with one of the best medicine doctorates in the country. She frequently works 16 hour days, and usually sleeps on a couch at the hospital because it's not worth her while going home only to have to come back in again. Again for a pittance of a wage.

What I'm getting at is that times are tough in this country, and everybody across all disciplines must start at the bottom. Do what others in this thread have said: start a blog, contribute to psychology magazines, start up your own mini practice, network. Best solution is to offer your services for next to nothing as an assistant or to shadow a reputable psychologist; even a few months of this will make your CV a lot more impressive.

Good luck with everything.

Lunafizzle

My my - this thread has become quiet lengthy!

I for one have been in the exact same position, so specifically what advice are you looking for Xander_82 and I can outline my path or give advice accordingly.

dar100

Maybe adding to your CV will assist you. Do some CPD courses, start with some volunteering in the area you wish to work. If you cannot secure a placement in your chosen area, pick something closely related and work towards establishing a path into an area you like.

Depending on the area you want to work, tailor your CPD courses to that line of work; i.e child protection, counselling skills, case management ASSIST etc etc.

I know people who have graduated with a BA Psychology and after a short time volunteering have secured full time work in services such as the homeless sector

Valmont

I think the issue is basically that Xander didn't get what he wanted after graduating. Now, rather than look at his education's true worth, he's finding fault with the entire system in that everyone is out collude in keeping him out of clinical psychology unless he bends to their ways.

Sounds like paranoid schizophrenia to me!

Xander_82

I've zero interest in Clinical Psychology. Those guys are totally screwed, way worse off than I am.

Valmont

Xander, what changes would you like to see in the recruitment of psychologists in your particular field? You maintain (correct me if I'm wrong here) that the best psychologists are often passed over in favour of the best salesmen. How could employers better select the candidate you feel is more suited to the task and also what do you know that those making the decision do not know? In short, how are you deciding who the best psychologist is even if they are yet to be given a chance?

kitkat.3b4t

Xander

I do think that there probably are a lot of people in your situation. There are many more psychology graduates than jobs available. Therefore since only a small percentage will be selected to study clinical psychology, there is bound to be a surplus. Some of these will go on to study counselling, education, health psychology etc. However all these courses are very expensive and unlike clinical, do not guarantee a job at the end.

Probably the majority of those who start a psych degree have a fantasy of being a clinical psychologist, but of course only 30 or so get places on training courses every year. Since there are very few career paths for those with only an undergrad degree a lot will continue on to masters level study. However that just moves the bottleneck up the line. The HSE employ clinical psychologist and some counselling psychologists and there are not so many of these so maybe for people who get to that level unemployment might not be such a problem. However there are around 3000 (can’t remember source of info) counsellors, psychotherapists etc, all accredited with their relative bodies. Therefore there is huge competition in private practice and for the few HSE jobs available.

As I said in another post recently, I would be interested in finding out the rate of unemployment among those in the counselling profession. I think that this is an important topic. Also I wonder if any of the regulatory/accrediting bodies eg PSI, ICP, IACP have considered that there might be real despair amongst their members. Sometimes I do wonder if these organizations have any genuine concern for their members or if they are more concerned with position and money. I’m not saying that they are, but I can’t help but wonder!!

Having said all that, psychology is a fascinating subject and I fully support the fact that there are lots of courses eg part-time which makes it accessible to mature students and those who might not have had the points to study after secondary school. I think this democratises the subject. However limiting access to clinical courses eventually creates an elite. There may be some work for everyone but I doubt that there is enough even to earn the average industrial wage, for all those who don’t get on clinical courses.

sambuka41

dar100 wrote: »

Depending on the area you want to work, tailor your CPD courses to that line of work; i.e child protection, counselling skills, case management ASSIST etc etc.

I know people who have graduated with a BA Psychology and after a short time volunteering have secured full time work in services such as the homeless sector

This is very true, I was one of those people!! (Although lucky enough to get the job without volunteering!!)

Xander if you want to work with people (which I assume that is what you mean, and not research based work) then there is work out there. Initially you probably won't be working in exactly the way you hoped, but there is work in the homeless sector/ drug addiction- as a key worker/ project worker. With your qualifications you would be in with a good shot at these jobs, alongside some volunteering. (and they are decently paid too)

From this you build up contacts and a reputation, it also shows that you are dedicated to this line of work, that working with people is clearly your career path.

Can I ask how much experience you have working with people? In particular working with people in crisis?

Studying will only get you so far, there is no replacement for hands on training and the confidence that comes from working with people in varied settings.

Xander_82

Thanks for the replies kitkat and sambuca.

Humria

I don't think people should be so dismissive of the point Xander has to make because he does have one.

I have a degree and masters in psychology. I've volunteered, done the networking and basically tried to avail of every opportunity and create opportunities when none have been available. While I haven't reached my goal yet, I'm happy with my progress so far. It's been difficult though. It's not the work so much as the uncertainty of any future security. As has been said before, there are a very limited amount of places on clinical psychology (I know there are other career opportunities in psychology, I'm just using this as an example) and hundreds of people who apply. I was informed by one person involved in the selection process that he believes that the majority of those shortlisted would be capable of being good clinical psychologists - there just are not enough places for them.

We have a much more uncertain future than doctors, OTs and engineers. I've seen psychology graduates approaching 30 and having to face the fact that although they have an impressive CV and the potential to be very good clinical psychologists, they probably are unlikely to be selected at this stage. They've spent all there 20s trying to be psychologists and have no title or career path show for it. Tell me of any other field that has to face that possibility? Despite what you say, a title is important it means you have a recognised role and a specific job title which means a lot when you are looking for a job! Jobs are becoming more specialised and if you don’t fit into a specific category, then it’s much more difficult.

I'm not saying this to moan but I think it's only fair to recognise the challenges we face as psychology graduates. We spend years on our education, work for free, build up networks and we face the possibility that it may come to no avail. Mentally that is tough and I believe that is something that few other professions must face. Sure it's tough to get a job as an engineer but you are still an engineer and it seems likely you'll eventually get to work in your field.

I personally do believe more should be done to develop career paths for psychology graduates. I think we should be trying to create more interim positions for psychology graduates. If you have to pay more than 200 euro to join the PSI it's not unreasonable that they should be in your corner and trying to promote and better prospects for their members. In Scotland they have a Clinical Associate in Applied Psychology (CAAP) position, and in the UK they have IAPT and other proposals have been submitted to the BPS for the creation of an Associate Psychologist position.

I have a qualification that basically qualifies me to do nothing expect to do more study in psychology. I think there is something intrinsically wrong when that is the case. We aren't paying all that money and spending all that time in education for the joy of learning. I think the psychology syllabus needs to be reorganised. More practical and applied elements need to be incorporated. Why not teach skills that graduates can actually use when they graduate! Why not do a year long module on CBT or psychotherapy? Why not have placements? Why not develop understanding of the role of Multi Disciplinary Teams, Primary Care/Secondary Care etc.

The system has potential for change but that will only happen when those on top advocate for those struggling to get a hold on the career ladder.


[EDIT] All that being said, I do agree there is no substitute for experience. The skills I've developed from dealing with various people and situations are invaluable to me and could not be replicated in a classroom. I definitely see the benefit of getting experience before clinical doctorates and I don't want to suggest that should be removed. Given the circumstances as they are, IMO the best thing any graduate can do look for experience in a range of settings. It'll help you decide if you like working in a clinical arena and open you to more opportunities in future. A lot of graduates experience a crisis in confidence at some point and don't be too hard on yourself if you do. It's no harm to have a back-up plan either. If you haven't been succeeded by a certain point, what options do you have? Confidence in your ability to get where you want to is great but don't discount other avenues.
E.G.
-OTs and CBT therapists also work in mental health settings. T
-There seems to be decent amount of work for ABA therapists/consultants in the UK if you wanted to work with autistic children.

Xander_82

We have a much more uncertain future than doctors, OTs and engineers. I've seen psychology graduates approaching 30 and having to face the fact that although they have an impressive CV and the potential to be very good clinical psychologists, they probably are unlikely to be selected at this stage. They've spent all there 20s trying to be psychologists and have no title or career path show for it. Tell me of any other field that has to face that possibility? Despite what you say, a title is important it means you have a recognised role and a specific job title which means a lot when you are looking for a job! Jobs are becoming more specialised and if you don’t fit into a specific category, then it’s much more difficult.

This is exactly my point. I am 30 now, and due to financial circumstances I was unable to throw myself into voluntary work during my 20's. I've now reached my 30's with 5 years of pretty high quality education which cost me a lot, took a lot of time, and from which I have very little I can actually use to carve a career for myself.

I think the psychology syllabus needs to be reorganised. More practical and applied elements need to be incorporated. Why not teach skills that graduates can actually use when they graduate! Why not do a year long module on CBT or psychotherapy? Why not have placements? Why not develop understanding of the role of Multi Disciplinary Teams, Primary Care/Secondary Care etc.

I totally agree. Another area which I think should be built into degrees, or at least as an extra module you can take while studying, are Fetac levels as Special Needs Assistant or even the area of childcare. I myself went for a job as a Special Needs Assistant and my 5 years of Psychology lost out to a lady who had a Leaving Cert and a Fetac level 5 in SNA. Building things like that into the syllabus could certainly be easily achieved I believe.

I personally do believe more should be done to develop career paths for psychology graduates. I think we should be trying to create more interim positions for psychology graduates. If you have to pay more than 200 euro to join the PSI it's not unreasonable that they should be in your corner and trying to promote and better prospects for their members.

I know the PSI would say they run CPD courses and advertise positions, but I really don't think that there is any concerted effort on their behalf to try to help along psychologists in the early stages of their careers. The certainly offer nowhere near the level of protection and assistance that the IMO offers doctors in Ireland, the Veterinary Council of Ireland, and so forth. I have stopped my membership of the PSI because I feel that my €200 is wasted for the most part- apart from running some workshops and upkeeping the website, I am at a bit of a loss to figure out what my money goes towards.

The Black Oil

How about a thread on here with psych jobs/voluntary posts? Some Region forms on here have jobs threads 'cafe needs staff', etc.
Thoughts, mods?

sambuka41

The Black Oil wrote: »

How about a thread on here with psych jobs/voluntary posts? Some Region forms on here have jobs threads 'cafe needs staff', etc.
Thoughts, mods?

I think that's a great idea. It can be hard once you have finished college to keep up with what is happening in the industry, jobs or training, especially if you haven't been able to find work in your area.

WhirlEsme

An excellent idea! Could it be stickied? And perhaps separate thread for research/academic positions and clinically relevant experience/positions?

Jupiter36

Xander_82 wrote: »

We have a much more uncertain future than doctors, OTs and engineers.

Unlike medicine, occupational therapy and engineering, a psychology degree is not a vocational qualification. It is an academic degree which gives you a limited theoretical understanding of a vast subject area. People who qualify with a psychology degree are in a similar position to people who qualify with a general arts degree, a law degree and even some science degrees. Guidance counsellors usually inform students considering these options that there is a long long road ahead. However, psychology, by virtue of its diversity, offers many interesting and exciting possibilities. Clinical psychology is one option; it is very competitive, it is not for everyone and it is not the only career path. If you want to pursue a career in psychology, you need to identify your interests, your skills set and your skills deficits. Then you need to inform yourself and make a medium to long-term plan (plan A, B, C & D) to target how you will fill the gaps in your knowledge, skills and experience. That will probably involve further education, work and voluntary experience. There will be many disappointments along the way. Frustrating, disheartening and confidence shattering as these are, they are good learning experiences. Use them as such. There are many roads to any destination. You will encounter many roadblocks and may need to re-route several times.

I think the psychology syllabus needs to be reorganised. More practical and applied elements need to be incorporated. Why not teach skills that graduates can actually use when they graduate! Why not do a year long module on CBT or psychotherapy? Why not have placements? Why not develop understanding of the role of Multi Disciplinary Teams, Primary Care/Secondary Care etc. [/I]

What you are referring to is a vocational course. The post-graduate courses in the applied areas of psychology cover exactly these areas. There are a few masters course in Applied Psychology which give a good grounding in these areas.

I totally agree. Another area which I think should be built into degrees, or at least as an extra module you can take while studying, are Fetac levels as Special Needs Assistant or even the area of childcare.

Those courses already exist. Why would you incorporate them into a psychology degree? Some very useful skill building courses to consider (most of which can be done in the evenings; not sure how expensive they are) include FETAC courses in Adult Education and Training, Conflict Resolution and Mediation. Such courses will build your skills and complement your academic knowledge in psychology.

I personally do believe more should be done to develop career paths for psychology graduates. I think we should be trying to create more interim positions for psychology graduates. If you have to pay more than 200 euro to join the PSI it's not unreasonable that they should be in your corner and trying to promote and better prospects for their members.

The Psychologists Vocational Group within the Impact union campaigned for many years to strengthen the career structure for psychologists within the health service. A proposal that was vigorously pursued was that of Assistant Psychologist. Just as progress was being made, the recession hit and with it came the recruitment moratorium and dissembling of any career structure. Presently, a lot of people are using the JobBridge scheme to get supervised experience as an Assistant Psychologist within the health and social service arena. This may also be the case within industry (if you are interested in occupational psychology) as a lot of firms offer internships. Voluntary work can be done outside of working hours (a job to pay the bills and voluntary work to acquire experience). Voluntary agencies often offer excellent training to their volunteers. This will go a significant way to building your skill set and thus your confidence at interviews. Some of the voluntary bodies do offer part-time paid work in social care (usually disability services, homeless services and childcare) or research and this is excellent experience.
One of the best ways to affect change is to become involved. PSI is always looking for people to join their working groups. As far as I can make out from the website, they have an active graduate group. There is also a Googles group for assistant psychologists and an online forum for networking. You might be able to get more information from PSI.

I know the PSI would say they run CPD courses and advertise positions, but I really don't think that there is any concerted effort on their behalf to try to help along psychologists in the early stages of their careers. The certainly offer nowhere near the level of protection and assistance that the IMO offers doctors in Ireland, the Veterinary Council of Ireland, and so forth.

I think that the NCHDs might dispute that point!!!

Xander_82

Jupiter36 I understand where you're coming from, and it's hard to argue with some of what you say.

Psychology is an academic degree and is not a vocational degree. In my opinion it should start moving towards incorporating some vocational elements. Or at least offering some vocational options. Why not? Yes, there is a lot to cover, but in one of the years I was studying my psychology degree in university I has as little as 12 hours of lecture time a week. An extra few hours, offered as an option, which would give something concrete to students in terms of potential for employment when they leave would have been very valuable to me. You're saying why incorporate them, I'm saying why not.

NCHD's... well, at least they get to work in the area, are paid, and are on a set working path towards achieving their goal of being fully qualified. If someone offered me a year or two of working 80 or 90 hour weeks with the guarantee I'd be the psychology equivalent of a GP, I know I'd take that, definitely. They are far better off than we are, even with their being exploited.

TheBlackOil A great idea for having a psych jobs thread!