Phoenix Park - Chesterfield Avenue

Hub D15

There was a public consultation on keeping this road open, the results of which were not released and now the park staff seem to have reverted to closing the road at weekends.

This is a public road being denied to most of the public who are paying for it on the whim of unelected park staff.

I can understand it being closed for marathons etc but it is being closed for nothing whatsoever. Ironically enough the only people who can continue to drive on it is the very park staff who are closing it to everyone else.

Has anyone heard anything about results of the public consultation?

Aard

Is weekend traffic so bad that the Navan Road isn't an option? It's a park after all, not a rat-run.

Hub D15

What if you are going to Heuston/Quays or the Zoo?

Closing the main road makes it more difficult to access the park, not easier.

Aard

It might make it more difficult to access by car, but makes it far more pleasant for those using the park. The zoo is accessible from North Circular, and the quays are accessible by going through Stoneybatter or down Infirmary Road.

The most frustrating things about the Phoenix Park are trying to cross Chesterfield Avenue and using the entrance at Parkgate St, both because of cars. Perhaps if Chesterfield was designed to be more sympathetic to cyclists and peds, or if it was routed away from the main spine it'd be better for everyone.

Cilar

It's a park, not a motorway

monument

Hub D15 wrote: »

This is a public road being denied to most of the public who are paying for it on the whim of unelected park staff.

Not a single person is being denied access. Your car is -- but that's not you.

The closure is in line with the park's management plan with is endorsed by the minister in charge of the OPW.

Hub D15 wrote: »

I can understand it being closed for marathons etc but it is being closed for nothing whatsoever. Ironically enough the only people who can continue to drive on it is the very park staff who are closing it to everyone else.

Where are you going to that going around this small bit of road would make much difference?

January

There are other roads in the park besides Chesterfield Ave and they are all open.

LXFlyer

A simple trip to the Phoenix Park website enables one to find this document, in the public domain, which does deal with the public consultation.

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/media/Chesterfield%20Av%20closure%20report.pdf

As other posters have said, you still have several alternative routes to/from the city:
Navan Road, Blackhorse Avenue, the perimeter roads of the Phoenix Park, or via Knockmaroon Hill and Chapelizod.

How much longer will any of those take you? 10 minutes maximum. For goodness sakes it's only for summer weekends - it is hardly the end of the world as we know it.

As for the staff being "unelected" - they are professional staff employed to manage the Park and are doing precisely that - I don't think they deserve to be insulted for doing their jobs.

Sacksian

Would love to see the entire centre of the Park closed to traffic (and not turned into parking) think it would improve it hugely as an amenity and also open up lots more possibilities (or just turned into a greenway).

JuliusCaesar

I regularly walk in the park and the speed at which cars drive through the park is unbelievable. I'd be very happy if the speed was much reduced, to the point that only people who want to use the park itself will drive in it*, and that those who use it as a rat-run will find another route.




*I'm aware that a lot of elderly people and disabled and people ferrying kids need to use a car to get to a particular location in the park.

amtc

When Chesterfield Avenue was closed for Bloom, a taxi from Heuston to my house was €40 instead of €20...

...when you're commuting in the morning, Blackhorse Avenue can't cope with the extratraffic, andnow that the gates are not two way on the side roads, it adds a lot on

jack presley

Sacksian wrote: »

Would love to see the entire centre of the Park closed to traffic (and not turned into parking) think it would improve it hugely as an amenity and also open up lots more possibilities (or just turned into a greenway).

People using the park still need places to park* and apart from the car park beside the zoo, visitor's centre, papal cross and the couple of small ones over by the football grounds, there really isn't anywhere suitable apart from along Chesterfield Avenue. So if Chesterfield Avenue is closed to traffic, people, especially on busy days in the Summer are going to have to resort to parking on the grass verges along the narrow roads that loop around the park which would probably be dangerous for cyclists and would destroy the grass.

* it is not practical or realistic to suggest everyone take public transport or cycle to the park from wherever in the country they are coming from.

Sacksian

jack presley wrote: »

People using the park still need places to park* and apart from the car park beside the zoo, visitor's centre, papal cross and the couple of small ones over by the football grounds, there really isn't anywhere suitable apart from along Chesterfield Avenue. So if Chesterfield Avenue is closed to traffic, people, especially on busy days in the Summer are going to have to resort to parking on the grass verges along the narrow roads that loop around the park which would probably be dangerous for cyclists and would destroy the grass.

* it is not practical or realistic to suggest everyone take public transport or cycle to the park from wherever in the country they are coming from.

To be fair, it's actually pretty well serviced by public transport, isn't it?

Within the park, maybe they could reintroduce the Phoenix Park shuttle bus (at least, I think it's gone)?

And I think you could create parking spaces at the top of the North Road/Chapelizod Gate if you had to, to keep the centre free.

Wasn't there supposed to be loads of new parking at the Chapelizod gate?

I'd much rather people were encouraged to use public transport and I really don't think it should be a thoroughfare. Just putting forward some ideas on how that could be achieved without restricting access!

jack presley

Sacksian wrote: »

But if say a family decide on a whim to go to the park on a lovely sunny day, are they really going to get a bus into town with the buggy, picnic basket and roller blades or whatever, then hop on another bus to get to the park?

As for the shuttle bus, in theory it would work but it would have to a lot more frequent to the one that was there in the past. And where's the money going to come from to buy these buses, build the new car parks etc? Public transport budgets are getting slashed these days.

dickwod1

Pain in the arse when you dont know about it ... I was driving home from town around 9.30 Saturday morning said I'll go through the park got to the other side of the Phoenix monument roundabout and could have crashed through the little white poles across the road ... had to detour across loads of speed bumps to the gate at the halfway house ... For what? ... Stupid decision IMHO

Sacksian

jack presley wrote: »

But if say a family decide on a whim to go to the park on a lovely sunny day, are they really going to get a bus into town with the buggy, picnic basket and roller blades or whatever, then hop on another bus to get to the park?

As for the shuttle bus, in theory it would work but it would have to a lot more frequent to the one that was there in the past. And where's the money going to come from to buy these buses, build the new car parks etc? Public transport budgets are getting slashed these days.

I accept I'm probably in a minority on this but all I'm suggesting is that there are options, including adding parking areas (which I've suggested above) to the existing ones, to divert traffic/parking from Chesterfield Avenue.

So, you could still drive and park there but not on Chesterfield Avenue - that's reasonable enough!

If we're agreed that the shuttle bus could work in theory, then I'm happy enough with that.

I think the question about funding for public projects is probably for a different discussion, as that could get pretty broad: principles of taxation, government priorities in social policy, health policy, transport policy, role of local government, etc!!

the world wonders

jack presley wrote: »

* it is not practical or realistic to suggest everyone take public transport or cycle to the park from wherever in the country they are coming from.

Park in one of the many car parks in the city centre, take a fifteen-minute journey on the red line luas which lets you off at Heuston a few hundred meters from the main gate. Seems quite practical and realistic to me...

jack presley

the world wonders wrote: »

Park in one of the many car parks in the city centre, take a fifteen-minute journey on the red line luas which lets you off at Heuston a few hundred meters from the main gate. Seems quite practical and realistic to me...

I take it you don't have kids with bikes etc?

I know it can be done. Anything can be done. But is it practical?

the world wonders

jack presley wrote: »

I know it can be done. Anything can be done. But is it practical?

So you'd rather turn the finest public park in Dublin into a free parking lot, than put your kids through the mild inconvenience of taking their bikes onto the Luas? The world does not revolve around you and your family you know.

jack presley

the world wonders wrote: »

So you'd rather turn the finest public park in Dublin into a free parking lot, than put your kids through the mild inconvenience of taking their bikes onto the Luas?

No I wouldn't turn it into a free parking lot, I'd leave it as it is with the ample, safe parking within the yellow lines on Chesterfield Avenue.

jack presley

the world wonders wrote: »

The world does not revolve around you and your family you know.

Never said it did. I don't have kids by the way but I do use the park a few times a week throughout the whole year for jogging. I come from north of the park so would your solution for me to drive by the park (I presume I'm not allowed drive through it) into town. Then hop on the Luas to go back the way I just came from, do my jog. Hop back on the Luas into town and then home? Yeah, that's realistic.

ProudDUB

Sacksian wrote: »

To be fair, it's actually pretty well serviced by public transport, isn't it?

I'd much rather people were encouraged to use public transport and I really don't think it should be a thoroughfare. Just putting forward some ideas on how that could be achieved without restricting access!

The park isn't serviced by public transport at all. The buses and trains go around it, not through it. The park is just too big to make everyone use public transport if they want to use it imo. It's fine if there is one specific thing on in one specific part of it (such as a concert) where you can encourage people to get a bus to the gate that is nearest to the event. But its not workable for the hoards of people, who are just going to random parts of it.

Not everyone who uses the Phoenix Park lives on the Luas line, or on a bus line that passes the park by. What are you supposed to do with your car once you get to the Luas stop or bus stop? Pay a fortune in parking fees at Heuston Station, or park on the street and risk getting a ticket or being clamped? If you do decide to leave the car at home & you are getting buses and Darts to the Luas, and then getting the Luas to Heuston, how much will that set you back if you are a family of 4/5 people? Is it fair or practical or financially viable to expect people to do all that?

Sacksian

ProudDUB wrote: »

The park isn't serviced by public transport at all. The buses and trains go around it, not through it. The park is just too big to make everyone use public transport if they want to use it imo. It's fine if there is one specific thing on in one specific part of it (such as a concert) where you can encourage people to get a bus to the gate that is nearest to the event. But its not workable for the hoards of people, who are just going to random parts of it.

Not everyone who uses the Phoenix Park lives on the Luas line, or on a bus line that passes the park by. What are you supposed to do with your car once you get to the Luas stop or bus stop? Pay a fortune in parking fees at Heuston Station, or park on the street and risk getting a ticket or being clamped? If you do decide to leave the car at home & you are getting buses and Darts to the Luas, and then getting the Luas to Heuston, how much will that set you back if you are a family of 4/5 people? Is it fair or practical or financially viable to expect people to do all that?

Hi - I think the amount of traffic in the park impacts on everyone's ability to enjoy it, so I think ways of looking to reduce that should be explored. I just don't think it should be a thoroughfare.

If we agree on the desirability of reducing traffic in the park, then let's look at what can be done.

I suggested above that there were areas of the park other than Chesterfield Avenue that could be used to create parking, if you had to.

I'd put the sustainability of the park as an amenity as a priority in any decisions so that would be my starting point and I don't think the current amount of traffic is sustainable.

LXFlyer

amtc wrote: »

When Chesterfield Avenue was closed for Bloom, a taxi from Heuston to my house was €40 instead of €20...

...when you're commuting in the morning, Blackhorse Avenue can't cope with the extratraffic, andnow that the gates are not two way on the side roads, it adds a lot on

But under this measure, this section of road is only being closed on Saturdays and Sundays.

That does not significantly impact on anyone's commute.

monument

jack presley wrote: »

I take it you don't have kids with bikes etc?

I know it can be done. Anything can be done. But is it practical?

For large amounts of people, safe cycle routes to the park would be a solution for children with bicycles but many of the same people who give out about changes to the park would give about changes to the quays etc.

But nobody is realistically taking about banning parking in the park, so driving to the park isn't an issue. Anybody who talks about this issue as if a large chunk of parking is being taken away is being unrealistic.

dickwod1 wrote: »

Pain in the arse when you dont know about it ... I was driving home from town around 9.30 Saturday morning said I'll go through the park got to the other side of the Phoenix monument roundabout and could have crashed through the little white poles across the road ... had to detour across loads of speed bumps to the gate at the halfway house ... For what? ... Stupid decision IMHO

Sorry, but you're exactly the target of the park's management plan -- they want you to stop using the park as a driving route.

For what? For park users to use and enjoy the park as a park and not for those who want to use it as a ratrun.

I looked yesterday and noted that they had "road closed" and "road closed ahead signs" on the approches to the roundabout. But to be honest I would also put something more visable at the bollards too.

jack presley wrote: »

Never said it did. I don't have kids by the way but I do use the park a few times a week throughout the whole year for jogging. I come from north of the park so would your solution for me to drive by the park (I presume I'm not allowed drive through it) into town. Then hop on the Luas to go back the way I just came from, do my jog. Hop back on the Luas into town and then home? Yeah, that's realistic.

No, I think he was giving a generalised way some people could use public transport.

There's loads of other public transport and other options.

amtc wrote: »

When Chesterfield Avenue was closed for Bloom, a taxi from Heuston to my house was €40 instead of €20...

...when you're commuting in the morning, Blackhorse Avenue can't cope with the extratraffic, andnow that the gates are not two way on the side roads, it adds a lot on

Bloom traffic conditions which caused your taxi to cost so much has little or nothing to do with the tiny detour needed at weekends.

This is weekend only and I really don't think Blackhorse Avenue is that busy on Saturday or Sundays.

John Mason

I use the park a lot, i have no problem with Chesterfield avenue being closed.

there is loads of parking in the park, in fact in all the years i have been using the park, i can only remember 1 day, when i parked on Chesterfield Avenue.

People need to realise this is park, not a rat run.

The Park Wardens do a fanastic job, it is an amazing amenity and should be treated with respect and care, but not as a right

LXFlyer

the world wonders wrote: »

Park in one of the many car parks in the city centre, take a fifteen-minute journey on the red line luas which lets you off at Heuston a few hundred meters from the main gate. Seems quite practical and realistic to me...

I think we have to be realistic about this.

People will still need to drive to and from the park. I think expecting everyone to use public transport is not realistic. For one thing, the park is frankly far too big to access from the main gate.

This small measure is about making the park more pleasant for those that use it at weekends, while maintaining full access to all the other areas.

dickwod1

monument wrote: »

Quote: Originally Posted by dickwod1
Pain in the arse when you dont know about it ... I was driving home from town around 9.30 Saturday morning said I'll go through the park got to the other side of the Phoenix monument roundabout and could have crashed through the little white poles across the road ... had to detour across loads of speed bumps to the gate at the halfway house ... For what? ... Stupid decision IMHO

Sorry, but you're exactly the target of the park's management plan -- they want you to stop using the park as a driving route.

For what? For park users to use and enjoy the park as a park and not for those who want to use it as a ratrun.

I looked yesterday and noted that they had "road closed" and "road closed ahead signs" on the approches to the roundabout. But to be honest I would also put something more visable at the bollards too.

I decided to drive through the park as I wasn't in a hurry, the sun was shining at 9.30 Saturday morning barely a cloud in the sky and I hadn't been in the park in a while, a bit of nice open space maybe see the deers if im lucky (but apparently that's me doing a rat run?),
I was driving from the Grafton Street area so I had deliberately decided to go down the quays to the Phoenix park for a nice leisurely drive through it, but ended up bouncing over very harsh speed ramps on my detour to the Halfway House gates,
If this decision is to prevent so called rat run's why is it closed on the weekend when there is not much traffic about and open on weekdays when there is lots of traffic and its ALL rat runs through the park... Still makes no sense IMHO

humberklog

On a slightly side note - I thought taxis weren't allowed to use the Phoenix Park. I know taxis do use the park- for pickup, drop off and drive through but I thought it was just put up with by the OPW.

There's signage on entrances saying "no commercial vehicles" and I thought taxis would fall under this.

dickwod1

humberklog wrote: »

On a slightly side note - I thought taxis weren't allowed to use the Phoenix Park. I know taxis do use the park- for pickup, drop off and drive through but I thought it was just put up with by the OPW.

There's signage on entrances saying "no commercial vehicles" and I thought taxis would fall under this.

I dont know what the rule is of taxi's being in the park is but a taxi is a PSV (public service vehicle) and not a commercial vehicle.

humberklog

dickwod1 wrote: »

I dont know what the rule is of taxi's being in the park is but a taxi is a PSV (public service vehicle) and not a commercial vehicle.

Ah righto, mind you it doesn't stop commercial vehicles either. It is used a lot as a rat run for delivery vans etc.

Was just curious about taxis in this regard.

donaghs

Aard wrote: »

Is weekend traffic so bad that the Navan Road isn't an option? It's a park after all, not a rat-run.

Navan Road between ashtown gate roundabout and Phibsboro is rarely a good option. Late at night its grand.

I understand its a park and OPW run it, but I'd prefer the road open. I'm saying this as a driver, cyclist, jogger and someone who brings my kids to the park.

Blackhorse and Chapelizod are alternatives, but they are not as direct a route, and have ramps - terrible ones on Blackhorse ave.

And as a cyclist, it only adds the problem of hordes of slaw jawed gawkers huddling together on the cycle path staring into space or shuffling along blocking the entire route!

ProudDUB

Sacksian wrote: »

Hi - I think the amount of traffic in the park impacts on everyone's ability to enjoy it, so I think ways of looking to reduce that should be explored. I just don't think it should be a thoroughfare.

If we agree on the desirability of reducing traffic in the park, then let's look at what can be done.

I suggested above that there were areas of the park other than Chesterfield Avenue that could be used to create parking, if you had to.

I'd put the sustainability of the park as an amenity as a priority in any decisions so that would be my starting point and I don't think the current amount of traffic is sustainable.

I agree that building other places for cars to park (other than Chesterfield Ave) is very good idea. I also agree with routing commuters on the west side of the city (sorry peeps in Blanch & Castleknock) away from it, so that the entire city can enjoy it more.

But in a previous post you advocated closing the entire centre of the park to cars. That is not workable imo, given the size of the park, and the fact that public transport just skirts the periphery of the park. If you close it all off to cars, how are people supposed to actually get to the centre of the park? What if you have young kids, or babies in a stroller, or you want to go for a picnic? It is not fair to limit the usage of the park to those who are capable or willing of jogging a couple of miles to get there, with all of their picnic gear on their back.

the world wonders wrote: »

So you'd rather turn the finest public park in Dublin into a free parking lot, than put your kids through the mild inconvenience of taking their bikes onto the Luas?

Do you have kids? Lugging kids, a baby in a stroller, toys, nappy changing bags, food, drinks, blankets, a bike or two etc etc onto a bus, and then onto the Luas, and then all the way back again after you are done with your day out, is A LOT more than a minor inconvenience imo. If you are lucky enough to live beside the red Luas line, or beside on a Dublin Bus route that stops outside one of the Park gates, it may be easy enough. Not everyone does though.

Originally Posted by the world wonders
Park in one of the many car parks in the city centre, take a fifteen-minute journey on the red line luas which lets you off at Heuston a few hundred meters from the main gate. Seems quite practical and realistic to me...

You seriously expect people who just want a nice day out in the Park, to pay for parking in town, and then pay for the Luas trip to the Park, and then pay for more Luas trips back to their car? Seriously?

Isn't one of the reasons that people go to a public park in the first place that it is supposed to be a low cost and/or free way to enjoy some fresh air & get some exercise. Parking in town is very expensive. City centre car parks charge anywhere from 2-3 euros an hour to park. Add in Luas fares, and you wouldn't have much change left from 20 quid if you are a family of four. Same with the people that use the sports grounds up there on a regular basis. Telling people that they have to cough up that kind of money every time they want to visit the Park is madness imo.

Sacksian

ProudDUB wrote: »

But in a previous post you advocated closing the entire centre of the park to cars. That is not workable imo, given the size of the park, and the fact that public transport just skirts the periphery of the park. If you close it all off to cars, how are people supposed to actually get to the centre of the park? What if you have young kids, or babies in a stroller, or you want to go for a picnic? It is not fair to limit the usage of the park to those who are capable or willing of jogging a couple of miles to get there, with all of their picnic gear on their back.

I think you could close Chesterfield Ave to traffic (that's what I mean by the entire centre of the park).

If you closed Chesterfield Avenue to traffic, there's no part of the park more than 800m at most from parking, even if you didn't create new parking.

Actually, 800m is a bit generous, maybe 600m - was up there this morning, there really is a lot of parking there already. Can't think of anywhere that isn't near a large parking area.

People park on the main stretch of Chesterfield Avenue because they can but I don't think that there's a great inconvenience if that option was removed.

Most people who park on Chesterfield Avenue during the working week are not users of the park. I don't think that should be facilitated.

kylith

ProudDUB wrote: »

Do you have kids? Lugging kids, a baby in a stroller, toys, nappy changing bags, food, drinks, blankets, a bike or two etc etc onto a bus, and then onto the Luas, and then all the way back again after you are done with your day out, is A LOT more than a minor inconvenience imo. If you are lucky enough to live beside the red Luas line, or beside on a Dublin Bus route that stops outside one of the Park gates, it may be easy enough. Not everyone does though.

Jesus Christ, how did my mother ever get five or six of us to Phoenix Park and the zoo for the day from Waterford public transport? How is she still doing it with her grandchildren? How do people who can't afford cars manage to get around the place? With a bit of streamlining and forward planning.

Do you really need a nappy changing bag? Can't you just stick a couple of nappies and a pack of wipes in your handbag? If you're going to a playground do you really need to bring toys? Are the bikes really so essential to your trip? Would the kids not be able to just run around instead? There are shops all over the place where you could buy some sandwiches and drinks. Or, better still, get a good backpack and you can fit your nappies, food, drinks, frisbee, whatever, in there.

Any time I've gone to Phoenix Park (and it was usually on foot as you couldn't bring dogs on the Luas until recently and I don't have a car) it's difficult to cross that road as the traffic is so bad. And I manage to bring dogs, water, food, bowls, a change of shoes, and a rain mac; not a gaggle of kids, I know, but I'd be willing to have a go, and I'll probably have to in a couple of years.

Is it just that we've gotten too used to convenience?

ProudDUB

Ok, I've just stopped laughing hysterically at the idea of telling the mother of a newborn baby & a toddler to shove a couple of nappies into her handbag & leave it at that. What if she has a toddler with her too? The walk up from Heuston would be too long for a 2 year old. What do they sit on when they get there, the wet grass? Taking your dogs for a walk in the park is not the same thing as taking kids. And even if there were shops "all over the place" (which there are not, not the parts I go to anyway) to buy food and drink at, the cost of doing that sends the costs of a trip to the park up to about 40 quid if you are a family, which is something that you still have not addressed.

Your granny sounds like a saint, but I am sure if someone offered her & her gang of kids a lift up to the Park, she would have bitten their arm off at the offer.

But anyway, let's all get rid of our cars and go every where on the bus, or we'll all burn in hell for committing the unforgivable sin of wanting a bit of convenience. Happy now?

jack presley

monument wrote: »

For large amounts of people, safe cycle routes to the park would be a solution for children with bicycles but many of the same people who give out about changes to the park would give about changes to the quays etc.

Can you expand on what you mean by safe cycle routes? The road around Dublin are narrow enough as it is and it's even a struggle to have normal cycle lanes so I don't think it is feasible to have safe cycle lanes that would be wide enough and protected enough from city traffic. I wouldn't put a kid on a bike with stabilisers anywhere near our city streets

Even if they were possible, they wouldn't be practical for families who live even a half a mile from the park. It'd be like a Tour de France stage for a kid on his first bike cycling a half mile before he even gets to the park, all while trying to avoid getting knocked over by cyclists going at speed on their commute or whatever.

kylith

Did you miss the part where I said you could fit a lot in a good backpack? And have you never heard of a double buggy? I've been seeing lots of those around recently with a baby in the front part and an older child in the back. I really can't understand how anyone needs such a massive bag for a few nappies and some wipes that it'd be impossible to get it on a bus.

You'd think that before the advent of the car no woman was ever able to go anywhere. The fact is that we've made it a hassle for ourselves because of the attitude that 'sure you can just stick it in the car'. There are women all around the country bringing their (multiple) children around on buses, trams, and trains while they do their shopping because they don't have a car,while to listen to some people you'd think that it was a trek up Everest they were going for, rather than a couple of hours in the park.

jack presley

kylith wrote: »

Did you miss the part where I said you could fit a lot in a good backpack? And have you never heard of a double buggy? I've been seeing lots of those around recently with a baby in the front part and an older child in the back. I really can't understand how anyone needs such a massive bag for a few nappies and some wipes that it'd be impossible to get it on a bus.

You'd think that before the advent of the car no woman was ever able to go anywhere. The fact is that we've made it a hassle for ourselves because of the attitude that 'sure you can just stick it in the car'. There are women all around the country bringing their (multiple) children around on buses, trams, and trains while they do their shopping because they don't have a car,while to listen to some people you'd think that it was a trek up Everest they were going for, rather than a couple of hours in the park.

Before the car, I'd say a trip to the park for families not within walking distance was an event that was planned weeks in advance and not on the spur of the moment because it looks like its going to be a nice day. And I'm sure it's not just women who take their kids on buses or who do the shopping!

Comparing going to the park with doing the weekly shop isn't comparing like with like. Shopping is a necessity whereas going to the park is recreational.

athtrasna

Hub D15 wrote: »

This is a public road being denied to most of the public who are paying for it on the whim of unelected park staff.

It's not a public road, it's a park. It does not come under the remit of the NRA nor is it maintained by them. Traffic is given access to the Park at the discretion of the OPW.

nudger

Was out for a cycle yesterday morning around 11am, out of curiosity to see who or what were using the closed stretch of the park cycled down the main road.
I met a couple of locals out for a walk but that was it, until I got down around the Phoenix monument where a little fecker on a green mini scrambler was practising his wheelies on the main road watched but his huddie mates.
You would think if they are going to close the main road that they would do something with it, party, festival, sports day, something instead of a useless closure.

monument

nudger wrote: »

Was out for a cycle yesterday morning around 11am, out of curiosity to see who or what were using the closed stretch of the park cycled down the main road.
I met a couple of locals out for a walk but that was it, until I got down around the Phoenix monument where a little fecker on a green mini scrambler was practising his wheelies on the main road watched but his huddie mates.
You would think if they are going to close the main road that they would do something with it, party, festival, sports day, something instead of a useless closure.

Err... There was a cargo bike event on it yesterday and even if they were not set up at 11am, the section was busy with event goers and passers by for a good chunk of the day.

amtc

lxflyer wrote: »

But under this measure, this section of road is only being closed on Saturdays and Sundays.



That does not significantly impact on anyone's commute.

Journet was a Thursday and a Friday...

LXFlyer

nudger wrote: »

Was out for a cycle yesterday morning around 11am, out of curiosity to see who or what were using the closed stretch of the park cycled down the main road.
I met a couple of locals out for a walk but that was it, until I got down around the Phoenix monument where a little fecker on a green mini scrambler was practising his wheelies on the main road watched but his huddie mates.
You would think if they are going to close the main road that they would do something with it, party, festival, sports day, something instead of a useless closure.

Lets be honest Sunday mornings tend to be quiet times everywhere.

I very much doubt that it was quiet during the afternoon.

LXFlyer

amtc wrote: »

Journet was a Thursday and a Friday...

I'm referring to the current measure.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

Lets be honest Sunday mornings tend to be quiet times everywhere.

I very much doubt that it was quiet during the afternoon.

You're right, it was not. There was an event on from 12.30pm.

L5

From my experience, the closed section has very few people using it. People are lazy, and like to park close to where they're going to walk etc.

L5

monument wrote: »

You're right, it was not. There was an event on from 12.30pm.

That is the first event that I have seen on that closed section all summer. Every other weekend the closed section is deserted.

Hub D15

Having now read the public consultation document re this Road Closure (link posted start of this thread by another user) it is to say the least not entirely objective. Quotes from the OPW document...

“The use of Chesterfield Avenue as a busy arterial traffic route has long conflicted with this objective.”

“In effect, the use of Chesterfield Avenue is not consistent with its setting and designation. The Phoenix Park Transportation Study completed in 2006 reflected this long term objective of reducing the environmental impact of traffic travelling through the Phoenix Park.”

“It was noted by Park Management that the consistency of the arrangements on Chesterfield Avenue greatly simplified the process of making the necessary arrangements for closures, thereby reducing the administrative burden on both the OPW and An Garda Siochána.”

“In fact the very fact that closures have continued throughout the year (with 38 closures reported) suggests that traffic impacts have been wholly manageable. On this basis, there is no traffic - related rationale for abandoning the current proposal for weekend closures on Chesterfield Avenue.”

“Table of Contents
1.0
Overview
2.0
2012: A Year in Review
3.0
Review of the Existing Transport Environment
4.0
Traffic Impact Assessment of Closure
5.0
The Case for Weekend Closures”

“The Plan sets out a number of ‘Strategic Objectives’, the following of which are considered to be most relevant:
8. To manage the levels of traffic within the Phoenix Park and reduce through
Traffic”

“the burden on the OPW to prepare and disseminate
information on the details of each closure was reduced, as the
seasonal closure allowed a single bulletin to be in force throughout
the full duration from April to September.”

“the quiet setting of Chesterfield Avenue during the weekend period became
an attraction in itself, and led to an increase in the concentration of
roller - blading, walking and cycling.”

“In relation to negative feedback, it was noted that many of the
issues raised related to the method of implementation as opposed
to the closure itself, and which have been considered as part of the
recommendations set out in Section 4 of this report.”

“This volume of traffic on Chesterfield Avenue is clearly inconsistent with its setting within a Park.”

“Examining the alternative routes within the Park, the maximum diversion for traffic travelling through the Park is approximately 800m, equating to an additional travel time of approximately 2 minutes. This is not deemed to be a significant impact in the context of journeys to and from the City Centre from the north - western fringes of the metropolitan area.”

“there is no traffic - related rationale for abandoning the current
proposal for weekend closures on Chesterfield Avenue.”

“The benefit of a formalised arrangement regarding the closure of Chesterfield Avenue will be the ability to provide a consistent and clear message on seasonal arrangements via the various methods of communication. This will reduce the burden on Park staff to provide constant information feeds for each closure.”

monument

Hub D15 wrote: »

Having now read the public consultation document re this Road Closure (link posted start of this thread by another user) it is to say the least not entirely objective. Quotes from the OPW document...

What part of it do you have a problem with?

There's lots of facts and all the opinion seems to follow OPW policy -- backed by the minister -- as set out in the park's management plan.

donaghs

monument wrote: »

What part of it do you have a problem with?

There's lots of facts and all the opinion seems to follow OPW policy -- backed by the minister -- as set out in the park's management plan.

"backed by the minister"

Oohh! a Minister! Well, then that this issue settled then?
Considering how many previous Irish ministers form a rogues gallery, forgive me for not being impressed by the title.

I don't really get your point here, except that you always back the OPW's position.

The poster was saying was just saying that it doesnt appear objective. It's marshalling its facts to support a particular thesis/aim. And making light of or ignoring the counter-arguements.

“In fact the very fact that closures have continued throughout the year (with 38 closures reported) suggests that traffic impacts have been wholly manageable. On this basis, there is no traffic - related rationale for abandoning the current proposal for weekend closures on Chesterfield Avenue.”
People adapt if they have no choice. Just like the long road works to widen the M50 that resulted in lane closures. Tymon Park in Tallaght would certainly benefit from closing the M50!