Irish cyclists and left turns

buffalo

So last night's league race went the "other" way around Corkagh Park - clockwise instead of the usual anti-clockwise. And it just felt wrong.

Obviously, we're used to racing a particular way at Corkagh Park, and better know the corners and the line to take from that direction, but I think there's also just an inherent dislike of right turns in the average racing cyclist.

Is this because we drive on the left, and therefore are used to taking left corners more sharply, and quicker? Do continental cyclists prefer right turns, do their courses normally run clockwise?

Columbia

I'd say there's an instinct to turning right that makes you want to check your surroundings, particularly over your right shoulder. Diving into a right turn without checking every direction feels unnatural and lethally dangerous, and I imagine a continental cyclist (at least an inexperienced one) would feel similarly about left turns.

Beasty

Well the courses run anti-clockwise on Irish roads because that avoids cutting across the oncoming traffic. Track racing is also universally anti-clockwise (as is the case for athletics).

I would have thought they would go the other way on roads where they drive on the other side mind

Lumen

On an Irish road you can take left hand corners faster because the camber is with you.

This obviously only applies if you are taking the non-racing line. If you use the whole of the road it makes no difference, apart from to your life expectancy.

DirkVoodoo

All the expensive stuff is on the right side of my bike, if I'm going to fall, I want to fall left.

Beasty

It's the same with clipping in for me - it feels very unnatural to try and engage the right foot when already pedalling - I naturally unclip the left one when stopped as that's where I will typically find a kerb to rest my foot on. It results in lots of tears in the toe end of my left overshoes while I have loads of right ones in pristine condition (maybe I should think about donating some to the paralympics squad!)

Dowee

I wasn't a fan of the strong wind on that right turn course either. We need to go back to the default direction

doozerie

I agree with Beasty, I think a lot of the sense of right turns being awkward is to do with which leg we are most comfortable with unclipping and putting on the ground. And because we cycle on the left hand side of the road we typically put our left leg down while stopped since it is further away from traffic.

I know that I lean more into left turns than right turns at least partly because I'm more confident in my ability to get my left foot down to the ground quickly, should I need to, than my right foot, based entirely on habit.

Hmmzis

This way round we had a good tailwind for the best bit of the track - the corners. Going the usual way round the first left after the South staight might have caused some unnecessary breaking and the last corners would have been slow due to the headwind. Tbh the surface there is so good that it doesn't matter how fast you're going and what lines are taken. Will be looking into some shorter cranks maybe, the 175mm do scrape a good bit.

seamus

I have to disagree with Beasty and doozerie. My clip/unclip foot is my right one. Having the left clipped out and starting off on the right feels weird. I basically never stop with my left foot on the kerb, always on the road with my right foot on the ground.

And taking those right turns hard last night definitely felt less comfortable than the left. Agreed on the surface, I think you could nearly have your knee on the ground and the bike would stay put.

Darkglasses

I also unclip with the right foot. I feel less comfortable turning right because that's where I expect other cyclists and cars to be.

Don't spiral staircases only go anti-clockwise too?

buffalo

Hmmzis wrote: »

This way round we had a good tailwind for the best bit of the track - the corners. Going the usual way round the first left after the South staight might have caused some unnecessary breaking and the last corners would have been slow due to the headwind. Tbh the surface there is so good that it doesn't matter how fast you're going and what lines are taken. Will be looking into some shorter cranks maybe, the 175mm do scrape a good bit.

I uploaded my ride to Strava last night, expecting to see a PB for the reverse loop. Nothing. Apparently I did it faster during a training session last year. Amazing the difference the wind makes!

ROK ON

The change in race circuit last night made for a thoroughly unenjoyable race and I blame Vlad for that ;-)

Once I heard the announcement I think I was mentally defeated at that stage. Worst race thus far, into the wind and wobbly in the corners.

I prefer the other way even though the corners are tighter and more technical it still feels as if you can take them narrower and faster.

I hope it's not repeated

ROK ON

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

All the expensive stuff is on the right side of my bike, if I'm going to fall, I want to fall left.

Plus there are a load of things that I do that I need my right hand for.

Dermot Illogical

Beasty wrote: »

It's the same with clipping in for me - it feels very unnatural to try and engage the right foot when already pedalling - I naturally unclip the left one when stopped as that's where I will typically find a kerb to rest my foot on.

I always unclip the right. Do you find it unusual to be pushing off with your left on the track? Or do you push off with the right like you were told not to when you were learning?

doozerie

People put their right foot down when stopped? *gasp* That's the preserve of foreigners. And Satan. Where are my rosary beads, I'm not staying in this heathen thread a moment longer!

(…it's actually a good thing to be comfortable putting either leg down, but despite making efforts to practice using my right leg for this it is still doesn't come naturally to me and I still can't bring myself to track stand with my left leg forward. Perhaps a few more decades of the rosary will clinch it though…)

buffalo

I unclip on the right, when I'm not being awesome and track-standing of course.

I'd very rarely be close enough to the kerb to put my foot on it Beasty, you must be pretty much in the gutter to do that?

studiorat

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

All the expensive stuff is on the right side of my bike, if I'm going to fall, I want to fall left.

Judging by the amount of people looking for RH shifters and brake levers in the adverts I'd say the right is the dodgy side. :pac:

Oddly enough I unclip the left even though my right is the stronger or dominant leg. I suppose it's because I push off with that one.

CramCycle

wrote: »

I have to disagree with Beasty and doozerie and Seamus.

I track stand, all of the time, never unclip, sometimes I just sleep in the bike shed. Thisis of course a lie, I have to unclip my right so I can hep shift my stuck deraileur to the correct position,

buffalo wrote: »

you must be pretty much in the gutter to do that?

Pretty harsh, what happened to not attacking the poster :pac:

Bunnyhopper

I unclip on the right, too. If I'm going to fall over I'd rather fall away from the traffic.

Ever the optimist… :rolleyes:

Beasty

buffalo wrote: »

I'd very rarely be close enough to the kerb to put my foot on it Beasty, you must be pretty much in the gutter to do that?

We don't have gutters round where I am...

On my commute the only times I usually need to pull up are at lights so I'm slowing down anyway and likely to be inside traffic

Of course if people want to practice right turns they could just spend an hour or two on a roundabout ...

bazermc

Darkglasses wrote: »

Don't spiral staircases only go anti-clockwise too?

Depends, going up or down? The spiral staircase in my house goes clockwise upwards.

Micilin Muc

I noticed this recently since I took up MTBing - I hated right-hand turns, but don't mind them now that I make sure my right foot is at the 12 o'clock position on the cranks.

Darkglasses

bazermc wrote: »

Depends, going up or down? The spiral staircase in my house goes clockwise upwards.

Derp.

bazermc

Darkglasses wrote: »

Derp.

No need to insult me, I answered your question didn't I?

Darkglasses

bazermc wrote: »

No need to insult me, I answered your question didn't I?

I was referring to myself!

bazermc

Darkglasses wrote: »

I was referring to myself!

Fair enough, apologies.

MediaMan

studiorat wrote: »

Oddly enough I unclip the left even though my right is the stronger or dominant leg. I suppose it's because I push off with that one.

I think this is the main reason for choice of 'unclipping' leg. All other thinks being equal, it will feel more natural to unclip the weaker leg and use the stronger leg to push off with. On club cycles, I notice that most people unclip their left foot, which would correlate with most people having a stronger right leg.

Of course all other things are never equal, and it may be that people start by unclipping with one leg for a variety of reasons and then stick with that as they become better at it and it feels more natural.

I think there's a lot to the point that people can corner better with their unclipping leg on the inside and therefore towards the ground. That's certainly the case for me, and I do feel it is because I feel I can put my foot down more easily if I need to. But I also feel that way on my MTB, which has flat pedals, so it must be more about which leg I normally put down when I stop rather than being clipped in per se.

enas

Regarding the choice of unclipping foot, this is definitely linked to the dominant leg (precisely, cyclists unclip with the non-dominant leg). I've never seen a cyclist who doesn't use the same side always. I've seen most cyclists unclip with the left foot and use it to rest, whether in Ireland or France (so regardless of which side of road they ride). Indeed, most people have a dominant right leg. Personally, my dominant leg is the left one, which is the exception (although still more common than left-handed people -- I'm right-handed). When I try to think about it and try to rest with the left foot and start pedalling with the right foot, I feel I'm going to lose balance and fall. I'm definitely very wobbly doing that, I wouldn't do it in traffic for real.

Idleater

enas wrote: »

I've never seen a cyclist who doesn't use the same side always

I do either. I like to rest on my right foot at some junctions, left at others. Camber has some influence, as does sun direction, but mostly it's whatever way I coast up.

Regarding cornering preference, from motorcycling, including track days, I definitely have to put more effort into right turns (despite most race tracks running clockwise) and always got closer to knee down on left hand bends.

IM0

I think it might have something to do with being right handed too, afterall its the right arm [like the foot] that does all the guiding and strength work through the corner, the left is just there for added subtle stability. so when we turn right [if youre right handed only] then your brain goes wtf, and this is probably enough to knock the confidence enough for it to actually affect us as nervousness when we corner to the right

I have been wondering about this for years too, it just feels wrong to turn right and lean the bike over, and like has been said already it must be to do with the possibility of traffic doing something stupid. its like an inbuilt unconscious reaction. also anytime the front wheel has gone from under me has been when Im turning right. add these together and you have the answer I think

Also Im left legged and right handed, clip out on the right when stopping and am more comfortable pushing off on the left leg so some of what others have said before? mythbusted!

so to to left handed people, does this fit? are you more comfortable turning right?

enas

Idleater wrote: »

I do either.

All right! It's honestly the first example I hear about. You might be the rare exception who's ambidextrous with your legs (which is maybe more common that being ambidextrous with your hands).

Regarding cornering, I too feel more confident cornering left, and again, I don't think this is related at all with driving on the left or right (as the fear of following traffic theory suggests).

This asymmetry could very well be correlated with right-handedness, but without necessarily being a consequence of right-handedness. Both right-handedness and better ability to corner left could be subtle effects of brain lateralisation.

Incidentally, speaking of the effects of brain lateralisation, I vaguely remember having read that there are more accidents involving old drivers in drive-on-the-left countries than drive-on-the-right ones. The suggested explanation was that we also tend to have a dominant eye, and the imbalance becomes greater as we get older. Therefore, in countries such as Ireland, old drivers would, in average, have a poorer vision of the centre of the road/side of the road (whichever of the two it is), thus resulting in more accidents. And seeing as I don't remember much detail, that could just be one of those myths.