Are we trying to "Dumb down" society?

hoodwinked

think about it, Teenagers drink, they smoke, they watch shows like The valley's and Jersey shore, they complain education is 'too hard'...


not all obviously but most will do at least one of the above.


why do we encourage our toddlers to go outside and learn, give them shows like Team Umizoomi and Doc Mc Stuffins which teach them math, and that they can be doctors or anything they want to be? and then subject our teenagers to Jersey Shore/The Valleys and other teenage nonsense on MTV which teaches them flashing your boobs will get you laid and getting hammered drunk is the goal of a saturday night?

there is now talk of dumbing down the Junior Cert because it is too hard, we have project maths in the Leaving Cert because they were failing the old course (which we got through just fine), Lecturers in science based university courses are despairing at the quality of maths in first years in university this year.

why do we create this 'Dumbed down' environment for our future adults?

and why is society moving this way rather than educating them towards better?

RayM

hoodwinked wrote: »

why do we create this 'Dumbed down' environment for our future adults?

Umm i dunno lol

NothingMan

We need to build a center for kids who can't read good and wanna learn to do other stuff good too.

Links234

When I was a teenager, I drank, and I'm pretty sure my parents thought Beavis & Butthead were the epitome of stupid garbage TV for braindead morons. I'm sure every generation thinks the next are idiots and dumbed down, but teenage years are seemingly designed for the sole purpose of doing stupid crap anyway

Augmerson

Are we? Of course we are. You are told what to think and believe in the papers, society tells you what is acceptable behaviour, "entertainment" media gives you acceptable ideas of what you want to achieve with your life.

NothingMan

Older generations use to run around pushing a hoop with a stick... That seems pretty dumb to me.

kneemos

Dunno what the difference is with the poor maths but if we want to compete with our far eastern friends we will have to lenghten the school year by four months and school days by six hours.

stimpson

hoodwinked wrote: »

think about it, Teenagers drink, they smoke, they watch shows like The valley's and Jersey shore, they complain education is 'too hard'...


not all obviously but most will do at least one of the above.


why do we encourage our toddlers to go outside and learn, give them shows like Team Umizoomi and Doc Mc Stuffins which teach them math, and that they can be doctors or anything they want to be? and then subject our teenagers to Jersey Shore/The Valleys and other teenage nonsense on MTV which teaches them flashing your boobs will get you laid and getting hammered drunk is the goal of a saturday night?

there is now talk of dumbing down the Junior Cert because it is too hard, we have project maths in the Leaving Cert because they were failing the old course (which we got through just fine), Lecturers in science based university courses are despairing at the quality of maths in first years in university this year.

why do we create this 'Dumbed down' environment for our future adults?

and why is society moving this way rather than educating them towards better?

Punctuation is for squares, man.

GLaDOS

Who's we?

And I'm sure teenagers have been doing stupid things for centuries.

hoodwinked

Links234 wrote: »

When I was a teenager, I drank, and I'm pretty sure my parents thought Beavis & Butthead were the epitome of stupid garbage TV for braindead morons. I'm sure every generation thinks the next are idiots and dumbed down, but teenage years are seemingly designed for the sole purpose of doing stupid crap anyway

but seriously take a look at the shows teenagers today watch, they are nothing like Beavis and Butthead, The Valley's came to my attention lately and i really couldn't believe teenagers (or people in general) could live like that but they do.

NothingMan wrote: »

Older generations use to run around pushing a hoop with a stick... That seems pretty dumb to me.

would you not think it was the best entertainment they had back then?


now there is no excuse, with all the entertainment we have at our disposal why watch shows like that? they have to have some kind of audience otherwise MTV wouldn't be making them.


why does society teach our children to learn and grow, yet push our teenagers into a world of drink/drugs and laziness?

biko

We're merely separating the wheat from the chaff

The Backwards Man

hoodwinked wrote: »

but seriously take a look at the shows teenagers today watch, they are nothing like Beavis and Butthead, The Valley's came to my attention lately and i really couldn't believe teenagers (or people in general) could live like that but they do.




would you not think it was the best entertainment they had back then?


now there is no excuse, with all the entertainment we have at our disposal why watch shows like that? they have to have some kind of audience otherwise MTV wouldn't be making them.


why does society teach our children to learn and grow, yet push our teenagers into a world of drink/drugs and laziness?

I never thought I'd see the day where Beavis and Butthead were held up as a good example of TV programming for kids.:pac::pac:

krudler

Big time, tv is getting stupider and stupider, for every great show that rewards its viewers like Breaking Bad or The Wire or something there's some reality guff about beauty pageants or hillbillies looking for gold. Look at channels like History or Discovery, they used to show actual decent programs about history or space travel or stuff worth knowing, now its all crap like Pawn Stars and Storage Wars, or aliens being responsible for everything in human history.

Mr Benevolent

hoodwinked wrote: »

but seriously take a look at the shows teenagers today watch, they are nothing like Beavis and Butthead, The Valley's came to my attention lately and i really couldn't believe teenagers (or people in general) could live like that but they do.




would you not think it was the best entertainment they had back then?


now there is no excuse, with all the entertainment we have at our disposal why watch shows like that? they have to have some kind of audience otherwise MTV wouldn't be making them.


why does society teach our children to learn and grow, yet push our teenagers into a world of drink/drugs and laziness?

You're repeating a sentiment that has been echoed ad nauseum for 4000 years. At least try to think logically before spewing out that crap.

NothingMan

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

You're repeating a sentiment that has been echoed ad nauseum for 4000 years. At least try to think logically before spewing out that crap.

Well if we're not getting dumber, we may at least be getting ruder.

Yes and no, the media is feeding teenagers (as well as everyone else ) a recycled regurgitated hyper real culture that can be hard to reject, clothes as lifestyle buy this buy that etc, however the the INTERNET has also helped to free people from social constraints which is a good thing.

Anyway one night coming home late I saw teenagers coming from a well know teenager out door drinking area and lo and behold they were bring their empty cans home with them so there is hope for society:p

hoodwinked

krudler wrote: »

Big time, tv is getting stupider and stupider, for every great show that rewards its viewers like Breaking Bad or The Wire or something there's some reality guff about beauty pageants or hillbillies looking for gold. Look at channels like History or Discovery, they used to show actual decent programs about history or space travel or stuff worth knowing, now its all crap like Pawn Stars and Storage Wars, or aliens being responsible for everything in human history.

but it would seem if todays teenagers are unable to do the Leaving Cert math course, and arguing the Junior Cert needs to be made easier that its spilling over into society as a whole?

We are staying in education longer than ever before - we are most definitely not dumbing down.

If you don't like those shows - don't watch them.

If people are going to watch these things they could at least support Irish produced TV and watch Tallafornia...

hoodwinked

Deleted User wrote: »

We are staying in education longer than ever before - we are most definitely not dumbing down.

If you don't like those shows - don't watch them.

If people are going to watch these things they could at least support Irish produced TV and watch Tallafornia...

what good is it staying in education longer if the quality of that education is being reduced to avoid high failure rates?

my point on the tv front was how do we go from educational shows like dora teaching them languages, Sesame street..etc to The Valleys teaching them bad language, promiscuity, drinking and whatever else...

hoodwinked

hoodwinked wrote: »

but it would seem if todays teenagers are unable to do the Leaving Cert math course, and arguing the Junior Cert needs to be made easier that its spilling over into society as a whole?

That a ridiculous thing to say, more teenagers that every are taking higher maths ( because of the bonus points )

However there is a problem with the fact that if you only offerer a very academic education a significant amount of people are going to fail or lack the ability to do well in that system, the big problem is trying to maintain an academic standard while making it relevant and accessible to the less able.

IM0

NothingMan wrote: »

Older generations use to run around pushing a hoop with a stick... That seems pretty dumb to me.

and the best bit was they go on about it like it was an achievement of creative thinking to come up with it

IM0

biko wrote: »

We're merely separating the wheat from the chaff chavs

better

My name is URL

You just have to look at some of the stuff on channels like Discovery and History to see how 'dumbed down' people are compared to 10 years ago. Shite like Ancient Aliens and Swamp People... fcuking depressing.

old hippy

Augmerson wrote: »

Are we? Of course we are. You are told what to think and believe in the papers, society tells you what is acceptable behaviour, "entertainment" media gives you acceptable ideas of what you want to achieve with your life.

But plenty of people question this status quo, hence we're not all dumbing down...

hoodwinked

mariaalice wrote: »

That a ridiculous thing to say, more teenagers that every are taking higher maths ( because of the bonus points )

However there is a problem with the fact that if you only offerer a very academic education a significant amount of people are going to fail or lack the ability to do well in that system, the big problem is trying to maintain an academic standard while making it relevant and accessible to the less able.

but they now do project maths the whole point of introducing project maths was to get greater numbers doing higher level by making it easier, thus the quality in University's is now decreasing as lecturers struggle to teach, the (now larger) gap between what they know and what they should know.

when we sat higher level, they had ordinary and foundation for those who weren't good at maths, but rather than bring students up to the higher level standard they made the exam easier to get more numbers doing higher level to give the appearance of more students taking 'higher level'.

Bazzo

People have enjoyed laughing at stupid people forever, however wrong that may seem.

I don't think anyone with half a brain actually wants to be like the people in those TV shows, they just enjoy watching some cretins running around acting like morons from the comfort of their own couch.

That said, I don't watch any of them shows, they just make me cringe.

hoodwinked

old hippy wrote: »

But plenty of people question this status quo, hence we're not all dumbing down...

not even close, more people (who want to) are going the opposite way, but then most of the adults i deal with now would have come from a generation where knowledge was accessible (encyclopedias, internet..etc)


where Lately Teenagers have the same information available but have no interest in learning it, and rather than society saying "thats ok but you still have to sit these exams if you want to get to college" they have adopted this "ah sure god love ya, look its too stressful for you, lets make it easier because we don't want you to fail"


while they sit back watching Jersey shore, and go boozing with their friends.

IM0

hoodwinked wrote: »

but they now do project maths the whole point of introducing project maths was to get greater numbers doing higher level by making it easier, thus the quality in University's is now decreasing as lecturers struggle to teach, the (now larger) gap between what they know and what they should know.

when we sat higher level, they had ordinary and foundation for those who weren't good at maths, but rather than bring students up to the higher level standard they made the exam easier to get more numbers doing higher level to give the appearance of more students taking 'higher level'.

and that tells you everything you need to know about the limitations of performance tables and 'maintaining' standards. if the incentive wasnt there for the schools as a whole then they wouldnt be dumbing down subjects so that technically more people end up doing higher level subjects and reaping whatever rewards in funding they no doubt get from such stats they present on spreadsheets

Kintarō Hattori

krudler wrote: »

Big time, tv is getting stupider and stupider, for every great show that rewards its viewers like Breaking Bad or The Wire or something there's some reality guff about beauty pageants or hillbillies looking for gold. Look at channels like History or Discovery, they used to show actual decent programs about history or space travel or stuff worth knowing, now its all crap like Pawn Stars and Storage Wars, or aliens being responsible for everything in human history.

OMG, you're right. The shame I feel now. I've been dumbed down, hadn't even noticed it and I'm not a teenager!

latenia

Just 10 years ago laughing at pictures and videos of animals and babies doing stuff or of people falling over was considered the absolute lowest common denominator of humour but now it's the predominant culture.

donegal_road

hoodwinked wrote: »

think about it, Teenagers drink, they smoke, they watch shows like The valley's and Jersey shore, they complain education is 'too hard'...


not all obviously but most will do at least one of the above.


why do we encourage our toddlers to go outside and learn, give them shows like Team Umizoomi and Doc Mc Stuffins which teach them math, and that they can be doctors or anything they want to be? and then subject our teenagers to Jersey Shore/The Valleys and other teenage nonsense on MTV which teaches them flashing your boobs will get you laid and getting hammered drunk is the goal of a saturday night?

there is now talk of dumbing down the Junior Cert because it is too hard, we have project maths in the Leaving Cert because they were failing the old course (which we got through just fine), Lecturers in science based university courses are despairing at the quality of maths in first years in university this year.

why do we create this 'Dumbed down' environment for our future adults?

and why is society moving this way rather than educating them towards better?

this maybe the case, but we don't come close to the US and UK for high levels of all-round stupidity amongst the younger population.

Compare this trend of accademic degeneration in the West to countries like China, where each year there are more 3rd level graduates with first class honours, than the entire 3rd level graduates of the same year in the US. (ok, China has 4 times the population of the US)

Some years ago it was predicted that China would become the world's largest economy by 2024. This date has now been brought forward to 2016.

old hippy

latenia wrote: »

Just 10 years ago laughing at pictures and videos of animals and babies doing stuff or of people falling over was considered the absolute lowest common denominator of humour but now it's the predominant culture.

Hrrmm. I remember a programme called "That's Life" back in the early 80s which seemed to thrive on rude shaped vegetables and talking dogs... I think the rot set in a long time ago

TimeToShine

krudler wrote: »

Big time, tv is getting stupider and stupider, for every great show that rewards its viewers like Breaking Bad or The Wire or something there's some reality guff about beauty pageants or hillbillies looking for gold. Look at channels like History or Discovery, they used to show actual decent programs about history or space travel or stuff worth knowing, now its all crap like Pawn Stars and Storage Wars, or aliens being responsible for everything in human history.

How can you claim The Wire and Breaking Bad are intellectual shows? I watch them myself but using them as an example of intelligent television is ridiculous. Pawn Stars is a very informative show and they actually explain the origin of each item, it's a great show for anyone with the slightest interest in American History and preaches about the value of money which is another thing we could do with recognizing.

ScumLord

Our schooling system is 50 years behind the times. It just won't grab the attention of a modern child.

I hated school and was lucky to come out of it semi literate. I've had to relearn everything I missed out on in school, I can't believe they managed to make history and geography so boring. I can't get enough of that stuff now.

Corkfeen

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" - Plato

But in all seriousness, not every single teenager watches reality tv for example. Big Brother appealed to an older demographic and was rather dumbed down as tv goes... Many people simply use tv as a way to relax and idiotic tv is fine for that purpose.

Drinking and smoking during your teens has been going on for decades. It's not unique to any particular generation. The statement that you have made is like people who say there's no good music being made any more.

VinLieger

I blame parents who coddle their kids and give them everything they ask for. These are the parents who dont let their kids play in the playgorund cus they might get hurt or some **** like that, it ends up giving kids a distorted view of how the world works and they think nothing can hurt them and everything will be given to them cus thats how their parents treated them

latenia

old hippy wrote: »

Hrrmm. I remember a programme called "That's Life" back in the early 80s which seemed to thrive on rude shaped vegetables and talking dogs... I think the rot set in a long time ago

Yes. But that was one segment of a single show. Then came You've Been Framed which was watched exclusively by morons. My point is that nowadays this sh1te has become the most popular form of humour amongst young educated people too. Look at the most popular thread on boards: 'you laugh you lose'-9,000 posts with about 10 genuinely funny jokes. The rest is just crap puns, unfunny memes and references to references.

krudler

TimeToShine wrote: »

How can you claim The Wire and Breaking Bad are intellectual shows? I watch them myself but using them as an example of intelligent television is ridiculous. Pawn Stars is a very informative show and they actually explain the origin of each item, it's a great show for anyone with the slightest interest in American History and preaches about the value of money which is another thing we could do with recognizing.

Well written, dense storylines, fully realised conflicted characters who don't fall into usual archetypes, don't pander to their audience, slow burning drama rather than flashy CSI style stuff, yeah they're intelligent shows.

hoodwinked

Corkfeen wrote: »

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" - Plato

But in all seriousness, not every single teenager watches reality tv for example. Big Brother appealed to an older demographic and was rather dumbed down as tv goes... Many people simply use tv as a way to relax and idiotic tv is fine for that purpose.

Drinking and smoking during your teens has been going on for decades. It's not unique to any particular generation. The statement that you have made is like people who say there's no good music being made any more.

i wouldn't insult people by saying all teenagers. i know there are just as many teenagers who would be allergic to those tv shows,

but its not just a tv/anti social issue, its leaking into the education and society as a whole,

if our teenagers are unable to handle the Junior Cert as is anymore what hope is there if the junior cert is too hard for a 16 year old or the leaving cert is too hard for an 18/19 year old, that they will be able go to college? or go working? or navigate a household budget?

Beta Ray Bill

People are getting stupider.

The shows that are on MTV are such CRAP.

I'm in my mid 20's, yeah I'm not a teenager, but even in my teens I had no interest in junk such as:

XFactor
Britain's got talent
The Valleys
What would some swimmer I've never heard of do?
Keeping up with the Dopes
Jersey Idiots
Etc.

You'll find they people that watch these shows have no lives of their own.

The first Generation of these people are starting to finishing up in college now and will be expected to work.

I work in an office with a fell of a Lot of Thick people. You'd wonder how they actually got so far one 4 or 5 brain cells.

Society is defo getting dumber!

April O Neill

krudler wrote: »

Well written, dense storylines, fully realised conflicted characters who don't fall into usual archetypes, don't pander to their audience, slow burning drama rather than flashy CSI style stuff, yeah they're intelligent shows.

I really enjoy Breaking Bad, but unfortunately a lot of the science has been exaggerated for dramatic purposes, don't go thinking what you see on the show is actually how it is. So, in that regard, it's not a whole lot better than CSI.

I'd say Walt became a bit caricature-ish in the first part of season 5 too.

ScumLord

April O Neill wrote: »

I really enjoy Breaking Bad, but unfortunately a lot of the science has been exaggerated for dramatic purposes, don't go thinking what you see on the show is actually how it is. So, in that regard, it's not a whole lot better than CSI.

The show is about an ordinary man pushed to extremes that becomes bad. It's a show that will more than likely always be relevant to all people. It shows that just about anyone is capable of becoming a bad guy under the right circumstances.

CSI is a load of nonsense, it's borderline propaganda that convinces Americans the law has almost supernatural powers of deduction and technology.

dark crystal

old hippy wrote: »

Hrrmm. I remember a programme called "That's Life" back in the early 80s which seemed to thrive on rude shaped vegetables and talking dogs... I think the rot set in a long time ago

At least 'That's Life' also covered consumer issues, featured investigative reports and real-life human interest stories.

When I was a teenager, we had 'The Word' and 'Eurotrash'. Fuck me, they were brain-rotting garbage, but we all watched it!

DaveDaRave

dark crystal wrote: »

At least 'That's Life' also covered consumer issues, featured investigative reports and real-life human interest stories.

When I was a teenager, we had 'The Word' and 'Eurotrash'. Fuck me, they were brain-rotting garbage, but we all watched it!

tits and music though

NothingMan

dark crystal wrote: »

When I was a teenager, we had 'The Word' and 'Eurotrash'. Fuck me, they were brain-rotting garbage, but we all watched it!

Some teenage boys had nothing else to masturbate to except Eurotrash, and god help you if it flicked to that bald couple mid stroke.... Not me of course but others <_<

Corkfeen

hoodwinked wrote: »

i wouldn't insult people by saying all teenagers. i know there are just as many teenagers who would be allergic to those tv shows,

but its not just a tv/anti social issue, its leaking into the education and society as a whole,

if our teenagers are unable to handle the Junior Cert as is anymore what hope is there if the junior cert is too hard for a 16 year old or the leaving cert is too hard for an 18/19 year old, that they will be able go to college? or go working? or navigate a household budget?

I'm allergic to those shows and hated my Leaving Cert, didn't even get on particularly well in it but not due to my lack of intelligence. However I got on fantastically in University etc. But I can also think of people who got high marks in the leaving cert, are getting on extremely well in university but watch absolute ****e on tv. People have read and watched trash throughout history. Do you have any evidence that Jersey Shore etc are responsible for a supposed decline in overall intelligence?

I wouldn't classify the Leaving Cert as an accurate gauge of anything besides memory for the most part.

TimeToShine wrote: »

How can you claim The Wire and Breaking Bad are intellectual shows? I watch them myself but using them as an example of intelligent television is ridiculous. Pawn Stars is a very informative show and they actually explain the origin of each item, it's a great show for anyone with the slightest interest in American History and preaches about the value of money which is another thing we could do with recognizing.

Of course The Wire and Breaking Bad can be classified as intellectual, they are both creative masterpieces and the former is regularly contrasted to the work of Shakespeare in terms of quality. The arts(TV) can be as intellectual a medium as any other.

Femme_Fatale

There's definitely way more crud on TV. And all the textspeak and "lyk if u cryd xxxxx" drivel... but at the same time, these are a choice; they're not being forced on anyone.

Who's this "we" by the way? And haven't teenagers always drunk and smoked?

hfallada

OP BS. More people that ever want to go to college to get an education and unlike the 1950s when if you had money you could do medicine. Now you have get a **** load of points and do well in the lc

briany

Links234 wrote: »

When I was a teenager, I drank, and I'm pretty sure my parents thought Beavis & Butthead were the epitome of stupid garbage TV for braindead morons. I'm sure every generation thinks the next are idiots and dumbed down, but teenage years are seemingly designed for the sole purpose of doing stupid crap anyway

At least that programme had a knowingly satirical edge to it. Mike Judge used it and uses it as a vehicle to satirise modern popular culture and music. That's why it's still good today. Of course, the *DJ chortle* hilarious hijinks are great as well...

The Wire, as an example, is intellectual, but mainly in the sense that it was obviously created by thinking people with a good knowledge and appreciation of the subjects they were tackling. However, watching it and liking it does not necessarily mean you are intellectual.

April O Neill

ScumLord wrote: »

The show is about an ordinary man pushed to extremes that becomes bad. It's a show that will more than likely always be relevant to all people. It shows that just about anyone is capable of becoming a bad guy under the right circumstances.

CSI is a load of nonsense, it's borderline propaganda that convinces Americans the law has almost supernatural powers of deduction and technology.

Some of Walt's stuff in the last season has been bordering on ridiculous.

But, actually, I don't agree that the point is that anyone could become bad. I think it's clear that Walt had it in him, and it has been unleased. We see Jesse struggle far more than Walt, because Jesse is arguably a better person. He doesn't go bad to the same extent as Walt, despite being in the same situation.

I don't think that anyone could go to the dark side is the point at all, not by a country mile.

gctest50

hfallada wrote: »

OP BS. More people that ever want to go to college to get an education and unlike the 1950s when if you had money you could do medicine. Now you have get a **** load of points and do well in the lc

And that works so well ....

I had one HCP try to convince me:

Blood Glucose > ninety

"You are too thin to have diabetes"

Two weeks earlier (different HCP) :

Blood Glucose > 27 ( high as the meter goes )

"Its high because you just had food - you're grand - head away"