Is our Irish economy getting better?

WanabeOlympian

Have you noticed any improvements at all in the economy? what about your local town or if you run a business, have you noticed your business pick up lately?
We often hear about how bad things are and for a reason! So I thought i'd start a thread that offered people a platform to talk about economic improvements that they have spotted.

donvito99

The weather was good for a while there.

The Backwards Man

I saw three, yes three, French campervans drive through my village this morning in convoy, no doubt the people in them were probably French. They didn't stop though, just drove past.

MonaPizza

Things are crap and will stay that way. Ireland is one of only 3 countries whose debt to income ratio is over 300%.

mikemac1

I see a lot of tourists around.

Welcome, welcome

spank_inferno

MonaPizza wrote: »

Things are crap and will stay that way. Ireland is one of only 3 countries whose debt to income ratio is over 300%.

All parts of that statement are factually incorrect.

Dravokivich

WanabeOlympian wrote: »

have you noticed your business pick up lately?

I work in a call centre, big problems indeed if no one picks up.

gurramok

I did see about 20 German bikers on the M50 the other day and they didn't hog the middle lane either! :eek:

SEPT 23 1989

No its not getting better and with another 6 billion coming out of the real economy in the next couple of years we are completely fcuked as a country

the weather was nice though

long range shooter

doesnt look that way,everyone seems to be leaving??

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0509/391211-emigration-report/

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

As oppose to the other Irish economies?

I am pie

Some people in Ireland generally lack any kind of perspective as to what a real economic crisis is and actually feels like.

To be honest, overall, I think we got off quite lightly in comparison to Greece and Spain. Sometimes we don't know when we're well off.

Obviously a lot of people have been put through a lot of stress in terms of losing jobs and reducing ps salaries. A large section of the population may be stuck with houses they didn't intend to keep long term, but, really...the reason we haven't been out on the streets is because standards of living have not dramatically collapsed.

Improvement will be gradual and hard to track I would say.

Jimmy Garlic

Sligo - Dieing
Limerick - Dieing
Waterford - Almost dead

Countless other towns on the ropes and going down the toilet. Almost no industry of any significance. The whole economy was based around easy credit, now the easy credit is gone. A government that only looks after themselves and the interests of their masters.

Duggys Housemate

Jayce Orange Thumbtack wrote: »

As oppose to the other Irish economies?

No as opposed to.

#pedantbecauseyouare

flutered

no pub in my village now, there used to be four, a big improvement for the followers of matt talbot perhaps, better news for the hackney drivers tho.

Duggys Housemate

I am pie wrote: »

Some people in Ireland generally lack any kind of perspective as to what a real economic crisis is and actually feels like.

To be honest, overall, I think we got off quite lightly in comparison to Greece and Spain. Sometimes we don't know when we're well off.

Obviously a lot of people have been put through a lot of stress in terms of losing jobs and reducing ps salaries. A large section of the population may be stuck with houses they didn't intend to keep long term, but, really...the reason we haven't been out on the streets is because standards of living have not dramatically collapsed.

Improvement will be gradual and hard to track I would say.

ah, no. To be fair we did have a real economic crisis.

Gone Drinking

What are people expecting when things "pick back up"? Loads of trade jobs with crazy high wages?

Truth is, things will never be the way they were before.

Personally, i'm kind of unaffected by the whole thing (yes, I'm thankful of this). I didn't take out a mortgage, I haven't been a week without work since I was 22 (8 years).

I still go on holidays here and there, I still go out with my mates at the weekend. I own a decent enough car..

syklops

IT is doing really well, and there is a skills shortage in many areas.

seamus

"It's not getting worse" is probably the most appropriate way of putting it.

Unemployment rates have stabilised and exports are doing very well, along with inward investment. Small businesses are still having major difficulty because they have very little access to credit.

Confidence is definitely returning to people though, in the last 6-12 months I've seen more people changing/acquiring jobs, buying big things like vehicles and houses and overall loosening the purse strings more than they have in the previous four years, combined.

To a certain extent I agree that we got off lightly, but it depends on what your perspective was. The population can generally be separated into two groups of people - those whose career was decimated by the collapse and lost their job or took a massive paycut, and those who were largely unaffected aside from a 5-15% paycut.
This has left us with one group still receiving relatively good wages, and a second group relying solely on benefits or struggling on a tiny wage.
From the former's point of view, we got off lightly. From the latter's, it's been 5 years of hell.

Pherekydes

Yes, it's improving, in the same way a person with cancer gets a little better before they finally relapse and die.

gurramok

seamus wrote: »

Unemployment rates have stabilised...

buying big things like vehicles and houses and overall loosening the purse strings more than they have in the previous four years, combined.

.

Unemployment stabilised = Emigration. Full time employment figures have fallen.

Buying cars = car sales are still down.

Buying houses last year = to avail of MIR.

Conmaicne Mara

WanabeOlympian wrote: »

Have you noticed any improvements at all in the economy? what about your local town or if you run a business, have you noticed your business pick up lately?
We often hear about how bad things are and for a reason! So I thought i'd start a thread that offered people a platform to talk about economic improvements that they have spotted.

Got a letter from a local pol today, gushing about two new projects for her area, one of which will never affect me in any way, the other may.

But, the one letter was sent to two of us in this house, so no, the economy is still ****ed Until I see letters sent for individual potholes fixed I will stay of the same opinion :cool:

runawaybishop

WanabeOlympian wrote: »

Have you noticed any improvements at all in the economy? what about your local town or if you run a business, have you noticed your business pick up lately?
We often hear about how bad things are and for a reason! So I thought i'd start a thread that offered people a platform to talk about economic improvements that they have spotted.

My company didn't really suffer during the recession (I.T.) and is performing quite strongly now compared to the US and European branches.

If anything there is a lack of people applying for the positions we advertise, not just a lack of people with the right skills.

Mr. CooL ICE

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Sligo - Dieing
Limerick - Dieing
Waterford - Almost dead

Countless other towns on the ropes and going down the toilet. Almost no industry of any significance. The whole economy was based around easy credit, now the easy credit is gone. A government that only looks after themselves and the interests of their masters.

A lot of towns were going to suffer regardless of an economic downturn. I grew up in a town that was on the old Cork-Dublin road, which has since been bypassed by the M8, and now suffers greatly from a massive drop in business by passing traffic.

Even Cashel is a mess. It used to be a bustling thriving town, but business tourism nosedived once the motorway opened.

John.Icy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

ah, no. To be fair we did have a real economic crisis.

No we f*cking didn't.

Seriously anyone in Ireland who lives in a house and has the f*cking internet of all things and complains about how poor and **** Ireland's economy is, there's one place to send you all, AFRICA.

Jesus Christ. Ireland has to be the most f*cked up place in the world. Must you all bloody complain that you can't upgrade your car this year, you can't go out to the pub as much, your phone is out of date by a year??? Get a f*cking grip on all your lives now.

Look at Africa, a place where poverty and lack of money is real. Living in their own ****, family members dying daily, children not living past a few days.

AND WE HAVE IT BAD DO WE????

The majority never lost their houses, cars, phones, internet. People are so poor they can't buy food Yeah that's exactly why like half of Ireland is fat.

Economic crisis and poverty. Ireland doesn't even know the half of it.

I'm out.

Duggys Housemate

John.Icy wrote: »

No we f*cking didn't.

Seriously anyone in Ireland who lives in a house and has the f*cking internet of all things and complains about how poor and **** Ireland's economy is, there's one place to send you all, AFRICA.

Jesus Christ. Ireland has to be the most f*cked up place in the world. Must you all bloody complain that you can't upgrade your car this year, you can't go out to the pub as much, your phone is out of date by a year??? Get a f*cking grip on all your lives now.

Look at Africa, a place where poverty and lack of money is real. Living in their own ****, family members dying daily, children not living past a few days.

AND WE HAVE IT BAD DO WE????

The majority never lost their houses, cars, phones, internet. People are so poor they can't buy food Yeah that's exactly why like half of Ireland is fat.

Economic crisis and poverty. Ireland doesn't even know the half of it.

I'm out.

So not as bad as Africa then = no economic crisis. That means we never ever had one. Nobody ever did. Outside Africa. There was no depression in 1930's, no economic crisis in Germany. Nothing. This isn't an argument, its like a millionaire saying he isn't rich because "LOOK AT ROMAN ABROMOVICH:

And most of Africa is nowhere near as bad as that scenario would indicate. Some parts of Africa are already richer than the poorer parts of Europe.

hfallada

Yeah traffic in Dublin is now a serious **** again.4 years ago it used to take me 10 mins to get into town. Its now 90 mins again

runawaybishop

John.Icy wrote: »

No we f*cking didn't.

Seriously anyone in Ireland who lives in a house and has the f*cking internet of all things and complains about how poor and **** Ireland's economy is, there's one place to send you all, AFRICA.

Jesus Christ. Ireland has to be the most f*cked up place in the world. Must you all bloody complain that you can't upgrade your car this year, you can't go out to the pub as much, your phone is out of date by a year??? Get a f*cking grip on all your lives now.

Look at Africa, a place where poverty and lack of money is real. Living in their own ****, family members dying daily, children not living past a few days.

AND WE HAVE IT BAD DO WE????

The majority never lost their houses, cars, phones, internet. People are so poor they can't buy food Yeah that's exactly why like half of Ireland is fat.

Economic crisis and poverty. Ireland doesn't even know the half of it.

I'm out.

A guy sitting in front of me on the bus was lamenting about the terrible state of the economy - you'd swear he hadn't a penny to spend the way he went on. His diatribe was slightly spoiled by the fact that the bus was a transfer bus taking us from the airport to a resort in the Algarve.

Surveyor11

I live and work in Dublin, I can see a bit of a pick up in certain areas. My industry (construction) is still on the floor and unlikely to recover to where it would make up a healthy proportion of the economy for the next 10 years at least. In saying that, we do a lot of work for tech companies setting up / relocating in Ireland - seems to be no shortage there, and each company we've done projects for is hiring and extending their office space or relocating.

I notice a big difference down the country. My home town (Waterford) is scarily depressed (from what I can see). Lots of vacant shops, Pubs empty or on curtailed opening hours, loads of places closed down, people have sort of given up hope. It's really sad to see.

John.Icy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

So not as bad as Africa then = no economic crisis. That means we never ever had one. Nobody ever did. Outside Africa. There was no depression in 1930's, no economic crisis in Germany. Nothing. This isn't an argument, its like a millionaire saying he isn't rich because "LOOK AT ROMAN ABROMOVICH:

And most of Africa is nowhere near as bad as that scenario would indicate. Some parts of Africa are already richer than the poorer parts of Europe.

It takes the dire case of parts Africa for some people to realise just how good they still have it in life.

Duggys Housemate

John.Icy wrote: »

It takes the dire case of parts Africa for some people to realise just how good they still have it in life.

We are now down to "parts of Africa".

Still not an argument - unless you get to the very poorest part of the Earth, or the poorest person, isn't everybody else is richer and luckier? Are they poor in Nigeria? Per-capita income is $2,500.

On the face of it, yes. But Burundi at $300 is almost ten times worse. So no.

Rubbish argument.

seamus

gurramok wrote: »

Unemployment stabilised = Emigration. Full time employment figures have fallen.

In previous years you would have been right, but the trend is on the reverse now (for the moment anyway). Employment is increasing Link.

Buying cars = car sales are still down.

Indeed, maybe it's just something geographically/economically isolated, but anecdotally I've seen a lot of people buying new vehicles in the last 6/12 months.

Buying houses last year = to avail of MIR.

Funny, not one of the people I know who have or are buying property have once mentioned MIR. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I don't think it's a big factor.

AndyMc

In all fairness Africa never really had an economy to crash. That place isnt a economic crisis its a warzone.

Downlinz

I am pie wrote: »

Some people in Ireland generally lack any kind of perspective as to what a real economic crisis is and actually feels like.

To be honest, overall, I think we got off quite lightly in comparison to Greece and Spain. Sometimes we don't know when we're well off.

Nobody exaggerates misery like the Irish, when the times were good and I'd comment on our prosperity with pride there'd be no end of people to remind me that "the bubble will burst".
The fact that during this supposed "emigration crisis" we have a net population increase is laughable and shows a real lack of perspective among those departing (construction sector understandably excused).

Though that said a big part of the general mood and confidence in the country is down to our government and our media and they've done nothing but flog the misery stories for as much as they possibly can. It really upsets me when I see Obama making rousing speeches during a moment of hardship in the states and then look back at Fine Gael squirming at our problems and generally just blaming Fianna Fail for the mess while offering no silver lining.

tayto lover

Dundalk like a Ghost-town.
Pubs, well what's left of them, not opening until evening. Many shops also closing
Drug addicts and winos all over the place and Simon has even closed down one shelter due to cutbacks.
The only thing rising is the amount of burglaries and the amount of young people emigrating.
Sad country to live in now.

DellyBelly

tayto lover wrote: »

Dundalk like a Ghost-town.
Pubs, well what's left of them, not opening until evening. Many shops also closing
Drug addicts and winos all over the place and Simon has even closed down one shelter due to cutbacks.
The only thing rising is the amount of burglaries and the amount of young people emigrating.
Sad country to live in now.

Funny you should mention that. I was in Dundalk for the first time ever the other day and I was shocked at how awful the place looked. Closed up shops on the main street and plenty of down and outs around the place. Quite shocking really.

tayto lover

DellyBelly wrote: »

Funny you should mention that. I was in Dundalk for the first time ever the other day and I was shocked at how awful the place looked. Closed up shops on the main street and plenty of down and outs around the place. Quite shocking really.

Yes but the thing that strikes me is the the expressions on the faces of people on the streets, nobody smiling at all. It's as if people have given up hope of things improving. Some jobs have come our way like E-Bay and National Pen but the vast amount of positions went to foreign people who can do telesales and speak other languages. Very few locals were employed in those places.

We used to be famous and employ thousands in the shoe and beer industries but those jobs have long gone now. Harp Brewery closing down for good in the near future.

gurramok

seamus wrote: »

In previous years you would have been right, but the trend is on the reverse now (for the moment anyway). Employment is increasing Link.

Wrong. Full time employment has fallen over the last year http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0530/453581-unemployment-rate-falls-in-first-quarter-cso/

And emigration has helped the unemployment rate. http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/2012/popmig_2012.pdf

Net migration of adults has fallen quite a bit.

seamus wrote: »

Funny, not one of the people I know who have or are buying property have once mentioned MIR. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I don't think it's a big factor.

Yes it was, these boards(especially Accommodation forum and agreed by the IBF) were plastered with help to meet the deadline for MIR. http://www.ibf.ie/gns/media-centre/news/13-05-28/IBF_Housing_Market_Monitor_Points_to_Renewed_Buyer_Confidence.aspx

6541

Personally I am fine have managed to secure a good wage and do not need for anything, I work in IT. My home town is f**ked, loads of empty shops and pubs. Loads of people I know have left, so in reality I don't see any pick up at all.

Sergeant

Things are going to be fine.

MOC88

seamus wrote: »

"It's not getting worse" is probably the most appropriate way of putting it.

Unemployment rates have stabilised and exports are doing very well, along with inward investment. Small businesses are still having major difficulty because they have very little access to credit.

Confidence is definitely returning to people though, in the last 6-12 months I've seen more people changing/acquiring jobs, buying big things like vehicles and houses and overall loosening the purse strings more than they have in the previous four years, combined.

To a certain extent I agree that we got off lightly, but it depends on what your perspective was. The population can generally be separated into two groups of people - those whose career was decimated by the collapse and lost their job or took a massive paycut, and those who were largely unaffected aside from a 5-15% paycut.
This has left us with one group still receiving relatively good wages, and a second group relying solely on benefits or struggling on a tiny wage.
From the former's point of view, we got off lightly. From the latter's, it's been 5 years of hell.

I can tell you for a fact that it's getting a lot worse in Waterford. Even if all the new taxes rates etc. weren't being introduced many people couldn't keep going, the rate of worsening conditions is going to increase I'd imagine

KyussBishop

I am pie wrote: »

Some people in Ireland generally lack any kind of perspective as to what a real economic crisis is and actually feels like.

To be honest, overall, I think we got off quite lightly in comparison to Greece and Spain. Sometimes we don't know when we're well off.

Obviously a lot of people have been put through a lot of stress in terms of losing jobs and reducing ps salaries. A large section of the population may be stuck with houses they didn't intend to keep long term, but, really...the reason we haven't been out on the streets is because standards of living have not dramatically collapsed.

Improvement will be gradual and hard to track I would say.

On the contrary, we've had our balls chopped off, compared to how our economy could be, if Europe had not elected the economically illiterate option of austerity.

'It could be worse', when we've been forced to further decimate our economy post-crisis, instead of saving it, isn't a good thing to be optimistic/positive about, it's something to be angry about.


Almost every 'it could be worse' argument, is arguing for a race-to-the-bottom in standards, where we shouldn't complain until our country has been completely destroyed.
There is always somewhere worse, and that is never a valid argument, against complaining about catastrophic economic mismanagement (and I'm talking about mismanagement now, not just pre-crisis), or indeed, against complaining about anything at all.

matTNT

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

#pedantbecauseyouare

Hashtags. This is not the place. You automatically forfeit your argument.

carzony

I hope were getting better soon, I'm tired of it and wish I was only going into secondary school atleast that'd give me a few years to kill. Unlucky for me I left school in 2010 and the only thing to do was to go on the dole, Back then I had I suppose an attitude ''i'd never work in mcdonalds or aldi'' jesus i'd jump at one of them jobs now :(

The economy is very bad and when you add up all the students only starting college and the ones leaving, then the ones attending fas and job bridge and then add up the 300,000 that have emigrated the country really looks bad.. If all them had signed on imagine what the figures would look like now :eek::eek::eek:

Cee-Jay-Cee

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I saw three, yes three, French campervans drive through my village this morning in convoy, no doubt the people in them were probably French. They didn't stop though, just drove past.

Most likely G8 protesters.

BlatentCheek

seamus wrote: »

The population can generally be separated into two groups of people - those whose career was decimated by the collapse and lost their job or took a massive paycut, and those who were largely unaffected aside from a 5-15% paycut.
This has left us with one group still receiving relatively good wages, and a second group relying solely on benefits or struggling on a tiny wage.
From the former's point of view, we got off lightly. From the latter's, it's been 5 years of hell.

This pretty much sums it up. It's like there's a two-speed Ireland and how that's expected to kickstart domestic demand is beyond me. Pretty much all the decision makers are in the largely unaffected group which is why their solutions to the Economic crisis have been so deaf to people's suffering: Think of Enda Kenny saying last year that there are jobs out there but people are unwilling to work them, or indeed people on these forums who are (presumably) doing OK telling people to shut up and stop moaning because they don't have it as bad as the Somalians.

K-9

KyussBishop wrote: »

On the contrary, we've had our balls chopped off, compared to how our economy could be, if Europe had not elected the economically illiterate option of austerity.

'It could be worse', when we've been forced to further decimate our economy post-crisis, instead of saving it, isn't a good thing to be optimistic/positive about, it's something to be angry about.


Almost every 'it could be worse' argument, is arguing for a race-to-the-bottom in standards, where we shouldn't complain until our country has been completely destroyed.
There is always somewhere worse, and that is never a valid argument, against complaining about catastrophic economic mismanagement (and I'm talking about mismanagement now, not just pre-crisis), or indeed, against complaining about anything at all.

Ah, your EU/ECB hobbyhorse makes you miss this has been going on for decades.

Rural Ireland is finished, the Celtic bubble hid it, but even then people went on about it. Rural Ireland was drained of people in the 80's and early 90's, saw a brief respite in the late 90's and early 00's with estates being built everywhere, masking the bleeding of textiles and other manufacturing industries, fishing, farming etc.

Take my county, Donegal Town lost Magee and Abbots, nothing has replaced them, Letterkenny lost Unifi and a couple of others, Buncrana Fruit of the Loom, Killybegs went from a fishing boom town to a ghost town, Burtonport barely exists any more. Letterkenny's biggest employers now are the regional hospital and college, the public service. We get the odd job announcement and success story, but that's about it.

You stand a chance if you live in a city or large town, emigration is your lot in rural Ireland, getting a job in Dublin is being lucky.

I don't think that is all down to austerity, these problems existed in boom/bubble times, they just hid it better.

NuckingFacker

gurramok wrote: »

I did see about 20 German bikers on the M50 the other day and they didn't hog the middle lane either! :eek:

Stayed in the fast lane eh?






ducks and runs.

WanabeOlympian

I see the platform for people highlighting positives they have seen in the economy has turned into 'let me tell you how bad things are' thread. Feck it anyway haha I know things are bad, i'm asking you what have you see that has been positive recently! aaaaaaaaargh

Get Real

carzony wrote: »

I hope were getting better soon, I'm tired of it and wish I was only going into secondary school atleast that'd give me a few years to kill. Unlucky for me I left school in 2010 and the only thing to do was to go on the dole, Back then I had I suppose an attitude ''i'd never work in mcdonalds or aldi'' jesus i'd jump at one of them jobs now :(

The economy is very bad and when you add up all the students only starting college and the ones leaving, then the ones attending fas and job bridge and then add up the 300,000 that have emigrated the country really looks bad.. If all them had signed on imagine what the figures would look like now :eek::eek::eek:

I agree its a shame about the problem with graduates (and all others too) not being able to find jobs, me having recently graduated myself.

I also finished school in 2010 but didnt have a bias against certain jobs, having taken a job in Maccy D's as you mentioned.

Sometimes I wonder- and don't get me wrong, I know people, including me, would generally like to work in their relevant field/trade- but sometimes I wonder if its a case of "I'm a graduate and can't find a job" but what they mean is "I dont want to take anything less than x amount per year/ think too highly of myself to work as a cleaner/ waiter/ mcdonalds/bk/kfc etc" even just for a year or two to gain experience, meet people, and maybe its easier for them to take the dole and blame the system and government, fearing being judged for working at the local chipper who may be hiring. And I think thats a pretty sad attitude to have.

Im more asking then stating it as fact, would anyone agree or?

Edit: Having read over that I don't want to come across as a sap either, I fully acknowledge that for many it is a very dire and s--tty situation, especially for unemployed people with big mortgages etc. I was just wondering is it possible that some people do have the attitude above?

Michael D Not Higgins

What I've noticed is that the international media tends to no longer list Ireland when talking about Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc.